Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

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  • PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,507 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Under no circumstance should Arcanes have the potential to outperform melee when it comes to survival unless participating in PvE contect intended for magic users only.


    why? with the same logic, no melee should out-dd arcanes unless in PvE intended for melees only.

    also, I don't really see how surviving ganks of lowbies is broken. a dragon can survive masses of archers.

    now the NW flag is a very specific issue but is not just purify that breaks it.
    you only purge once #yopo
  • dizzyrunks
    dizzyrunks Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Am sure alot of these casters with this purify weapon are full aware that it's really OP... b:victory

    I just notice not a single Gm made a comment in this thread.. Guessing they already know the skill is OP themselves
  • dizzyrunks
    dizzyrunks Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    You mean he has 12k hp and has no idea how to play his class?

    Adroit not everyone is as blessed as you to have all maxed out gearsb:bye
  • Tsyn - Raging Tide
    Tsyn - Raging Tide Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    For anyone that needs a summary of basically 82 pages:

    A. Purify is annoying in 1v1 but not game changing.

    B. Purify affects group PvP (excluding NW) somewhat, but it is not a general problem, because Purify users tend to run away when their weapons proc, and casters who are running generally cannot deal damage/are rendered, for most purposes, out of the game temporarily.

    C. Purify affects NW strongly because the environment of many undergeared players renders geared Purify users very hard to kill. The available counters are too unreliably available - either a team of highly skilled players have to coordinate class-specific debuffs, or all 20 people in a NW have to cooperate with an overall strategy, which is difficult at best.

    I've already stated my points why Purify itself is overpowered. Adroit mainly has stated his reasons as to why Purify is counterable and thus balanced. This discussion has no where else to go. No one will agree; thus 82+ pages.

    Any further discussion will merely be counterarguments to counterarguments.

    Personally, I think it would be great if we could start a discussion on affecting Purify in NW (no speed buffs while in Flag mode, or disable weapon procs, or introduce cooldown to Purify).
    Forever overlooked.
    Forever forgotten.
    Forever alone.

    This is a good thing. People don't notice me, and they don't notice the knife whistling towards their throat.
  • Flamespirit - Dreamweaver
    Flamespirit - Dreamweaver Posts: 337 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Frankly I think Nw itself should be took out the game before they go messing with my gear.

    Even if you agree and I do agree that in Nw purify is highly usefull, big deal. Half of the classes in pwi can get it. So for the instance of nw half of the classes being at an advantage is big deal. Less than half the classes have an unfair advantage at say high end tt. Sins have an absolute unfair advantage to fc. Archers have advantage to tw. List goes on....So what if casters have a slight advantage for NW--no reason to get all worked up. In fact it is not even an advantage that makes it impossible for others to also participate and do well. Point of fact is my lunar g16 cleric +6all wife gets nearly half the amount of tokens in NW as I do as a full +10-11 r93 wizzy. (we always squad together)
  • Regenbogen - Lost City
    Regenbogen - Lost City Posts: 1,559 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    stop qqing

    its maxed out gears with full josd and +12 that are op and not purify proc...
    i am waiting for you my little flagcarriers b:kiss
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    PotatoHeadQR - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    why? with the same logic, no melee should out-dd arcanes unless in PvE intended for melees only.

    also, I don't really see how surviving ganks of lowbies is broken. a dragon can survive masses of archers.

    now the NW flag is a very specific issue but is not just purify that breaks it.

    Oh? Do Melees have higher average DPH? They don't you say? Gasp!
  • AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu, please link a pwi calc of your current gear please b:thanks
  • Adroit - Lost City
    Adroit - Lost City Posts: 4,628 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Zanryu, please link a pwi calc of your current gear please b:thanks

    12k hp on r9rr bm is probably around a +6 set.. likely higher on the wep (my guess is +7 or +10).
    Youtube Channel: youtube.com/user/D2VeT/videos?flow=grid&view=0
    Current gear: pwcalc.com/6ab2893fbfb080a8
    [SIGPIC]http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=684hgk&s=5[/SIGPIC]
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Zanryu, please link a pwi calc of your current gear please b:thanks

    Link
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    12k hp on r9rr bm is probably around a +6 set.. likely higher on the wep (my guess is +7 or +10).

    Bingo
  • AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    12k hp on r9rr bm is probably around a +6 set.. likely higher on the wep (my guess is +7 or +10).

    So let me get this straight. I (Zanryu) cant kill R9rr +12 Full JOSD casters. With my intermediate R9rr bm? Is that what this is all about? Really? Sigh...

    I know when im in NW and i come accross really OP squads of R9rr toons i just leave the instance. I know im out gunned and out classed in terms of gear and i move to another instance where i will hopefully i can earn credits.

    Thats life, there's always someone better, trick is to either accept it... or, as im my case do something about it ie gear up and KILL EM ALL later. b:chuckle
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    So let me get this straight. I (Zanryu) cant kill R9rr +12 Full JOSD casters. With my intermediate R9rr bm? Is that what this is all about? Really? Sigh...

    I know when im in NW and i come accross really OP squads of R9rr toons i just leave the instance. I know im out gunned and out classed in terms of gear and i move to another instance where i will hopefully i can earn credits.

    Thats life, there's always someone better, trick is to either accept it... or, as im my case do something about it ie gear up and KILL EM ALL later. b:chuckle

    Ah, how convenient to pin blame on my gear and use that as reasoning to say that what I've said holds no ground, at least that seems to be what you're implying. You're gonna have to do better than that if you want to discredit anything I've said.
  • AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Ah, how convenient to pin blame on my gear and use that as reasoning to say that what I've said holds no ground, at least that seems to be what you're implying. You're gonna have to do better than that if you want to discredit anything I've said.

    Im trying to do that.

    Ok look at this way. My main is a wizzy G16 armor low refines +3/4, G14 R8 sword +6. I come up against you in NW, TW, or PK. You kick my butt.. right?

    Now i start a thread on the forum saying its unfair that people with R9 can kill me so easily and i cant kill them. You see my point?
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Link

    Your BM only has like 100 more HP unbuffed than I do unbuffed. o.o;;
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Im trying to do that.

    Ok look at this way. My main is a wizzy G16 armor low refines +3/4, G14 R8 sword +6. I come up against you in NW, TW, or PK. You kick my butt.. right?

    Now i start a thread on the forum saying its unfair that people with R9 can kill me so easily and i cant kill them. You see my point?

    I do, however it's irrelevant because I'm not basing my opinions solely on my gear vs end game gear. You can't discredit my opinions based on that because I haven't done that. Go be a silly goose somewhere else.
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    Your BM only has like 100 more HP unbuffed than I do unbuffed. o.o;;

    Aren't you much higher refined than I am?
  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Adroit - Lost City wrote: »
    12k hp on r9rr bm is probably around a +6 set.. likely higher on the wep (my guess is +7 or +10).

    How about a guy with unbuffed 17k+ hp, 30k+ upper end raw damage, and well over 100 attack levels... who has a better chance at stopping, slowing, and killing well geared heavy armor flag carrier than a well geared purify carrier... but who just doesn't care about this whole thing because PWI was and never will be about balance and fairness.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Kiszmet - Heavens Tear
    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    So let me get this straight. I (Zanryu) cant kill R9rr +12 Full JOSD casters. With my intermediate R9rr bm? Is that what this is all about? Really? Sigh...

    I know when im in NW and i come accross really OP squads of R9rr toons i just leave the instance. I know im out gunned and out classed in terms of gear and i move to another instance where i will hopefully i can earn credits.

    Thats life, there's always someone better, trick is to either accept it... or, as im my case do something about it ie gear up and KILL EM ALL later. b:chuckle

    So even if your R9R3 +6/+10, your not good enough to make an argument against a proc which ALLOWS an already overpowered toon to become even more overpowered the MORE people they have fighting them? (notice I did NOT say the proc itself is overpowered) Good Lord, I'm starting to think you R9+12s are just plain bat sh-it insane. Next thing you guys will be saying is that only R9+12s with JoSDs and JoSDs ONLY will be allowed to argue their pvp points...
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »
    For anyone that needs a summary of basically 82 pages:

    ...
    C. Purify affects NW strongly because the environment of many undergeared players renders geared Purify users very hard to kill. The available counters are too unreliably available - either a team of highly skilled players have to coordinate class-specific debuffs, or all 20 people in a NW have to cooperate with an overall strategy, which is difficult at best.
    ...

    Is not that hard to kill a r9-3 mage. You just need 1 or 2 players with equal gear. If you want to kill adroit for example, maybe you need 3-4, because his gear is above the average. An average r9-3 (+10 refines, no nw items) 1 zc from a sin could be enough, even fully buffed.

    If they get purged it makes things a lot easier, btw.
    [SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=929114001&dateline=1398892224[/SIGPIC]
  • AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I do, however it's irrelevant because I'm not basing my opinions solely on my gear vs end game gear. You can't discredit my opinions based on that because I haven't done that. Go be a silly goose somewhere else.


    LOL

    I eyes but i do not see, i have ears but i do not listen. Such is the way of things. b:surrender

    Grats btw on your gear. b:victory
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    I do, however it's irrelevant because I'm not basing my opinions solely on my gear vs end game gear. You can't discredit my opinions based on that because I haven't done that. Go be a silly goose somewhere else.


    LOL

    I eyes but i do not see, i have ears but i do not listen. Such is the way of things. b:surrender

    Grats btw on your gear. b:victory

    Thanks I suppose, but it is you who seems to be blind and deaf. b:chuckle
  • Eoria - Harshlands
    Eoria - Harshlands Posts: 6,118 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Aren't you much higher refined than I am?

    Ehh...I'm sitting at this atm: http://www.pwcalc.com/d6aa555b32108034
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "subtraction has the butt of an angel" - Paulrogers
    I <3 Subtraction.
    /blatant sig copy is blatant

    105/105/105 obtained! b:cute
  • AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Kiszmet - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    So even if your R9R3 +6/+10, your not good enough to make an argument against a proc which ALLOWS an already overpowered toon to become even more overpowered the MORE people they have fighting them? (notice I did NOT say the proc itself is overpowered) Good Lord, I'm starting to think you R9+12s are just plain bat sh-it insane. Next thing you guys will be saying is that only R9+12s with JoSDs and JoSDs ONLY will be allowed to argue their pvp points...

    R9rr toons are top of the food chain are they not?

    Now i said before and ill say again, until an R9rr player of any class says that purify proc is unfair in any pvp situation. NB must be at equal level in terms of refinement and sharding. Then this whole thread is pointless.

    Why should those that invest a lot of time and money to improve and maximise their gear be penalised?
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »
    Ehh...I'm sitting at this atm: http://www.pwcalc.com/d6aa555b32108034

    That counts as much higher refined, here would be my HP with the same refines.

    http://pwcalc.com/4fdac255837ae1de

    I come out with over 3k HP more. It'll be a while before I can afford any +10 refines though, so you'll have more HP for a while. Unless I go full +7, at which point I'll have higher HP than you.
  • AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Thanks I suppose, but it is you who seems to be blind and deaf. b:chuckle

    Blind no, hard of hearing? Yes i am o.o
  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    That counts as much higher refined, here would be my HP with the same refines.

    http://pwcalc.com/4fdac255837ae1de

    I come out with over 3k HP more. It'll be a while before I can afford any +10 refines though, so you'll have more HP for a while. Unless I go full +7, at which point I'll have higher HP than you.

    Your calc is bad, this one is much better:
    http://pwcalc.com/7637bd6e03da9871
  • Zanryu - Dreamweaver
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver Posts: 7,261 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    Blind no, hard of hearing? Yes i am o.o

    But.. but I have eyes and ears that work perfectly fine. Why would you say they don't work? I'm sad. Your face doesn't work. I hate you. You're mean.
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    Your calc is bad, this one is much better:
    http://pwcalc.com/4fdac256773ah7fh

    Damn, that's pretty beast. Wanna donate so I can get that?
  • AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

    But.. but I have eyes and ears that work perfectly fine. Why would you say they don't work? I'm sad. Your face doesn't work. I hate you. You're mean.



    b:laugh
  • ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver
    ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    purify OP yes.

    but u know what? other things are too!

    - barbs : the best class atm, tanky and hit like a truck, reminds me of some offtanks in some League game

    - seekers : need to explain?

    - sins : cry about aps, dph sins are nuts too

    as for dreamweaver alone, have hard time stop r9rr casters like fayhumming or thesun?

    wanna try stop the barb bigcojones ans his like what, 50-55k hp? or merangelus archer with like 28k hp?

    dont see much difference. btw archers are op as hell too to carry flag, can land a flag while being stunnable for only like 5 sec total

    plz remove purify, and give us gof plz
  • marvinhuddleston
    marvinhuddleston Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    PWI will never change the purify proc because they would lose every r9 arcane .
  • AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver
    AlphaOmegaX - Dreamweaver Posts: 302 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    purify OP yes.

    but u know what? other things are too!

    - barbs : the best class atm, tanky and hit like a truck, reminds me of some offtanks in some League game

    - seekers : need to explain?

    - sins : cry about aps, dph sins are nuts too

    as for dreamweaver alone, have hard time stop r9rr casters like fayhumming or thesun?

    wanna try stop the barb bigcojones ans his like what, 50-55k hp? or merangelus archer with like 28k hp?

    dont see much difference. btw archers are op as hell too to carry flag, can land a flag while being stunnable for only like 5 sec total

    plz remove purify, and give us gof plz

    This.

    Like how you think Apo, GoF on a 3 spark, BT b:dirty
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