Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

The typical actitude of all the qqers here. You think we are supposed to do die to your noob ***. Gtfo.


G16 is nirvana 3rd cast too. You need to clarify, and I hope you don't mean nirvana gear because then you are out of your mind.

If you are not going to address all my post, then don't fking quote it all.

1. you accuse me of not addressing my whole post, but your doing the same.

2. I NEVER said that they should die to my 'noob ***,' and my gear is FAR from that weak, again stop making such rude *** asinine comments. Especially just becuase you dislike, or disagree with me. if my gear was g15 or less of course they arent going to die to me, and they shouldn't, but when my gear starts to match what your gear should be doing, and I still struggle.. that is when it becomes ridiculous as all get out. EDIT: I am NOT SUGGESTING you all be a ****ing one shot, but when you are nigh impossible to kill especially thanks to a proc... that is when things are way out of line.)

3. I do indeed mean the nirvana thid cast (the one with atk level s+40, that with the gear the atk levels alone match the weapon alone of r93r.)... Granted I could be wrong that the damage is able to kill r93r casters when i do get my axe to +10... the fact still remains that other people will hinder that progress by simply attacking you.... all because of a proc that is way too ridiculous not to be considered to be overpowered in certain areas.

4. meh I think i am done posting on this thread for a while, obviously I am not explaining myself well enough to get my point across. xD

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

No it shouldn't because it's an entirely different gear tier. A normal r9 or g16 Nirv person typically should not be able to kill a r9rr. Obviously, there are a lot of exceptions. But generally if you're, say, a BM with full +10 g16 Nirv gear trying to fight a mage geared like Adroit, no, you shouldn't be able to kill that mage unless they're just really ****ing bad and you get lucky.

Purify Spell negates whatever luck might come about at that level of gear. Generally, even with gear disadvantages someone could beat someone else so long as they had superior skill. It was like that in PWI some time ago, but now gear = autowin. Unless your gear around the same with very little margin for difference you will automatically lose most fights if you're out-geared. No exceptions, no matter how skilled you are. +10 dominates +7, +12 dominates +10, R9r3 dominates all other gearsets. Were Purify Spell implemented in the past rather than the present, and gear with obscene amounts of attack levels and a great amount of defense levels didn't exist the possibility of beating someone due to skill could be there, but as it stands that's no longer the case.

I agree that if someone works or cash shops superior gear they should have an advantage, but not so much so that someone of decent refines and great skill will automatically be unable to win due to gear alone.

Adroit - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

but your suppose to be an easy kill for us melees when we get near you..

lmfao, wow. Can't believe you'd actually admit to a reason as petty as that.. wow lolol

Anyway.. I was just watching a video of some end game pvp and I thought it was relevant to this thread (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYmsEUQ0HME), mostly concerning purify proc in group PvP. I was lagging pretty hard at the start (had to close down some background stuff), but either way you can watch both my and Hex's buffs/hp in squad (my gear is in my signature, Hexstar is r9rr +12 josd.. pretty much maxed except missing nw upgrade on sky cover ring and 3 josd in helm or something). I think that every caster in this video had purify.. and I'm just not seeing how purify could seriously be viewed as OP in PvP like this.

Azura - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ha, and you seem to think you should have superior survivability without sacrificing damage output. You seem angry, Azura. Perhaps you should come down and approach this rationally.

Unlike you, I'm not saying how the game should be. I have always accepted as it is. qq moar.

And rationally? I already repeated myself too many times rationally. From now on I will just flame.

One of the things I'm tired of repeating is this: You can't talk of balance when you compare lower tie gears with a higher tie. Balancing can only be talked about in the same tier, doesn't that make sense?

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Unlike you, I'm not saying how the game should be. I have always accepted as it is. qq moar.

And rationally? I already repeated myself too many times rationally. From now on I will just flame.

One of the things I'm tired of repeating is this: You can't talk of balance when you compare lower tie gears with a higher tie. Balancing can only be talked about in the same tier, doesn't that make sense?

Oh? A desire for the game to be better overall means I haven't accepted it for what it is now? Are you so blind as to actually believe that when I've in no way implied that I don't accept it?

What you fail to understand is that one of the points isn't comparing lower gear tiers to higher ones, it's comparing the functionality of Melee and Arcanes in the same situation, in which Arcanes come out on top due to having Purify Spell.


>Azura's face right now.

dizzyrunks

just remove the speed buff from it an don't make it purify debuff.. I think that would make it better.. Sucks you finally (BM) get up on a caster(wizzies) purfi procs they speed away.. by time you get to them again their leap skill is cdb:surrender

BungaSakura - Raging Tide

When all moderator agree on the QQer, and they used the power to make this stay in here, even this discussion should be post in other thread? Well, then im guessing they use their power and close their eyes? I think GM should reply about this discussion too?

For me, i dont mind losing puri on my weapon, as long purge and gof is also gone.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

lmfao, wow. Can't believe you'd actually admit to a reason as petty as that.. wow lolol

Anyway.. I was just watching a video of some end game pvp and I thought it was relevant to this thread (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYmsEUQ0HME), mostly concerning purify proc in group PvP. I was lagging pretty hard at the start (had to close down some background stuff), but either way you can watch both my and Hex's buffs/hp in squad (my gear is in my signature, Hexstar is r9rr +12 josd.. pretty much maxed except missing nw upgrade on sky cover ring and 3 josd in helm or something). I think that every caster in this video had purify.. and I'm just not seeing how purify could seriously be viewed as OP in PvP like this.

I so NEVER meant for what you all seem to be implying I meant... I am NOT saying that the melee should one shot the caster as soon as they get near, but when you add the proc + a lot of casters insane ability to survive quite an onslaught... along with others coming in to help.... that is when things are just seriously... ridiculously... too much in favor of one class. (I was speaking with a friend in game, that said there is a difference between being impossible to kill, and being hard to kill, and that should indeed be the case for any class... there is plenty of times where it is fully possible to kill a similarly geared melee character whereas it would be nigh impossible to lock down a caster and kill them. (Though yes there are times where it is possible for a melee to do what casters do, it is just IMHO FAR FAR rarer to see than a caster doing it.)

I think this game should be like it is in that game I came from, mages should own melees from a distance (which they do) melees should be owning mages when they're up close, (which arguably they struggle to do so if they don't have gear that is 100% on par with their gear/defense, especially when you add in that proc... it is questionably an imbalance, I do get at similar gear this may very well be the case that they are very much so far more likely to do the killing, I don't recall ever denying that, but to think my damage is only helping them... with that proc... that is just sickening.) and then rages should of course be owning mages. (which I honestly don't know if its actually the case, but judging from the QQ I see about them and their proc, I would say that is the case.)


---

Anyways I am tired of painting myself into a corner, (one that I do not wish to be in) I am OUT of here, have fun arguing/debating.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

When all moderator agree on the QQer, and they used the power to make this stay in here, even this discussion should be post in other thread? Well, then im guessing they use their power and close their eyes? I think GM should reply about this discussion too?

For me, i dont mind losing puri on my weapon, as long purge and gof is also gone.

You can't lump everyone who disagrees with Purify Spell into the group of QQers. There are QQers from both sides, but there are also those who make legitimate arguments. There is a large difference between QQers and people with valid opinions and concerns. You can't label every opinion that opposes yours as QQ just because it's convenient as seems to be so common as of late.

dizzyrunks

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

When all moderator agree on the QQer, and they used the power to make this stay in here, even this discussion should be post in other thread? Well, then im guessing they use their power and close their eyes? I think GM should reply about this discussion too?

For me, i dont mind losing puri on my weapon, as long purge and gof is also gone.

Not talking about losing purify oin the weap but just loose the speed boost an stop it from purifying debuffs is all..

BungaSakura - Raging Tide

dizzyrunks wrote: »

Not talking about losing purify oin the weap but just loose the speed boost an stop it from purifying debuffs is all..

then shall i ask gof also have CD? melee class get spoil too long, when got a challenge, instead answer the challenge, ppl just QQ.

Azura - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh? A desire for the game to be better overall means I haven't accepted it for what it is now? Are you so blind as to actually believe that when I've in no way implied that I don't accept it?

What you fail to understand is that one of the points isn't comparing lower gear tiers to higher ones, it's comparing the functionality of Melee and Arcanes in the same situation, in which Arcanes come out on top due to having Purify Spell.

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Why do you compare lower tie gears with higher ones... Anything that is below r9-3 is a different way of playing. If you want to nerf something because of a few op mages, you would punish severaly everyone else.

Sage sins are really good too because of their tidal, for nw. Would it be fair to nerf sage tidal because of a few maxed out sins? Ofc not! because it would affect unfairly all the other sins, which are way more, below them.

dizzyrunks

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

then shall i ask gof also have CD? melee class get spoil too long, when got a challenge, instead answer the challenge, ppl just QQ.

GOF cd?? How ofdten do you see a BM zerks?? their be times a Bm don't zerk at all an there are times they are lucky which unlikly most of the times..

Any ways i guess every one can go roll a caster.. wonder how pk would be then..

BungaSakura - Raging Tide

im not talking about certain class, since u are talking about caster then i also talking about all melee class. b:bye

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Why do you compare lower tie gears with higher ones... Anything that is below r9-3 is a different way of playing. If you want to nerf something because of a few op mages, you would punish severaly everyone else.

Sage sins are really good too because of their tidal, for nw. Would it be fair to nerf sage tidal because of a few maxed out sins? Ofc not! because it would affect unfairly all the other sins, which are way more, below them.

Yet again you fail to understand the point I'm trying to convey, your lack of comprehension is not my problem, nor can it be helped. I've repeated myself at least three times to you and Adroit, yet you both continuously fail to understand that it is not the T3 Nirvana players I am comparing to R9r3, but that I am using them as the situation in which both Melee and Arcane R9r3's much function in. It's the difference in functionality between Melee and Arcane that I'm comparing, not that specific gear to Arcane R9r3.

I'm not surprised you resort to flaming, given the utter lack of intelligence you seem to be displaying.

dizzyrunks

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

im not talking about certain class, since u are talking about caster then i also talking about all melee class. b:bye

am talking from a Bm point of view... Sins an archers have a beter time dealing with all the effects from purify

Azura - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yet again you fail to understand the point I'm trying to convey, your lack of comprehension is not my problem, nor can it be helped. I've repeated myself at least three times to you and Adroit, yet you both continuously fail to understand that it is not the T3 Nirvana players I am comparing to R9r3, but that I am using them as the situation in which both Melee and Arcane R9r3's much function in. It's the difference in functionality between Melee and Arcane that I'm comparing, not that specific gear to Arcane R9r3.

I'm not surprised you resort to flaming, given the utter lack of intelligence you seem to be displaying.

So you are smart uuh? Then why do you defend yourself only on your "idea of funcionality." That's just your idea. Everyone has their differnt idea of an ideal world, and the issue here is whether purify is op or not. Leave your idea behind and prove yourself with facts. Go watch the video Adroit posted a few pages ago and see how is pvp when at least most people have almost the same gear.

Edit, here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYmsEUQ0HME

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yet again you fail to understand the point I'm trying to convey, your lack of comprehension is not my problem, nor can it be helped. I've repeated myself at least three times to you and Adroit, yet you both continuously fail to understand that it is not the T3 Nirvana players I am comparing to R9r3, but that I am using them as the situation in which both Melee and Arcane R9r3's much function in. It's the difference in functionality between Melee and Arcane that I'm comparing, not that specific gear to Arcane R9r3.

I'm not surprised you resort to flaming, given the utter lack of intelligence you seem to be displaying.

I understand your weak point perfectly, I reject it due to it being an extremely poor argument.. it has nothing to do with reading comprehension. I could just as easily compare r9rr +12 josd to gm gear.. note that the only classes that can take a single hit from a gm are sins, barbs, and eps (anti death skills, it seems to me demon venos might have gotten something similar.. either way it isn't every class) and use your logic to conclude that anti death now needs to be nerfed because sins and eps are "supposed" to be squishy and should not survive better than other HA classes. Oh yeah, r9rr was never supposed to be balanced with gm gear.. and it is near impossible to draw meaningful conclusions by throwing them in situations where they are dealing with entirely different gear levels.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

So you are smart uuh? Then why do you defend yourself only on your "idea of funcionality." That's just your idea. Everyone has their differnt idea of an ideal world, and the issue here is whether purify is op or not. Leave your idea behind and prove yourself with facts. Go watch the video Adroit posted a few pages ago and see how is pvp when at least most people have almost the same gear.

Edit, here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYmsEUQ0HME

As I said, missing the entire point. That is not the scenario in which I am referring to.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I understand your weak point perfectly, I reject it due to it being an extremely poor argument.. it has nothing to do with reading comprehension. I could just as easily compare r9rr +12 josd to gm gear.. note that the only classes that can take a single hit from a gm are sins, barbs, and eps (anti death skills, it seems to me demon venos might have gotten something similar.. either way it isn't every class) and use your logic to conclude that anti death now needs to be nerfed because sins and eps are "supposed" to be squishy and should not survive better than other HA classes. Oh yeah, r9rr was never supposed to be balanced with gm gear.. and it is near impossible to draw meaningful conclusions by throwing them in situations where they are dealing with entirely different gear levels.

You argue your point as if I'm talking about a straight fight between T3 and R9r3, which shows your lack of understanding and renders your entire argument invalid. It is not relevant to the point I was trying to get across, which is that two R9r3's of the same gear level, only differing in that one is melee while the other is arcane, one of them will fare far better when put in a situation where there are multiple lower geared people, even if those lower geared people are at the level of R9 or T3. I'm not comparing the the different gear tiers in a straight fight, I'm comparing the same gear tier in the same situation against lower gear tiers. As long as that remains a possible or common situation my point is perfectly valid and as strong as it needs to be. Your counter-argument is weaker than you try to make my statement out to be if for no other reason than you fail to comprehend what I'm actually saying.

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As I said, missing the entire point. That is not the scenario in which I am referring to.



You argue your point as if I'm talking about a straight fight between T3 and R9r3, which shows your lack of understanding and renders your entire argument invalid. It is not relevant to the point I was trying to get across, which is that two R9r3's of the same gear level, only differing in that one is melee while the other is arcane, one of them will fare far better when put in a situation where there are multiple lower geared people, even if those lower geared people are at the level of R9 or T3. I'm not comparing the the different gear tiers in a straight fight, I'm comparing the same gear tier in the same situation against lower gear tiers. As long as that remains a possible or common situation my point is perfectly valid and as strong as it needs to be. Your counter-argument is weaker than you try to make my statement out to be if for no other reason than you fail to comprehend what I'm actually saying.

Nope. You have continuously misrepresented my arguments throughout this thread, I can't tell if you are just trying to wiggle yourself out of the corner you've put yourself in or literally can't comprehend what you read.. but it's pretty sad either way.

Azura - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

As I said, missing the entire point. That is not the scenario in which I am referring to.



You argue your point as if I'm talking about a straight fight between T3 and R9r3, which shows your lack of understanding and renders your entire argument invalid. It is not relevant to the point I was trying to get across, which is that two R9r3's of the same gear level, only differing in that one is melee while the other is arcane, one of them will fare far better when put in a situation where there are multiple lower geared people, even if those lower geared people are at the level of R9 or T3. I'm not comparing the the different gear tiers in a straight fight, I'm comparing the same gear tier in the same situation against lower gear tiers. As long as that remains a possible or common situation my point is perfectly valid and as strong as it needs to be. Your counter-argument is weaker than you try to make my statement out to be if for no other reason than you fail to comprehend what I'm actually saying.

The other day I wanted to kill a bm of about the same level in gear as me. It should had been easy, since he is terrible, but there was a bunch of low level gear ppl that kept stunning me, and sealing me, making my purify renderless.

According to your logic, stuns and seals should be nerfed because when I was fighting another guy, what should had been a easy fight, made it unberable.

I get your weak point perfectly. I guess you never learned you could not compare apples and oranges.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Nope. You have continuously misrepresented my arguments throughout this thread, I can't tell if you are just trying to wiggle yourself out of the corner you've put yourself in or literally can't comprehend what you read.. but it's pretty sad either way.

My understanding is this, you believe that only R9r3 should be considered a factor in whether or not Purify Spell is balanced. You believe that only R9r3 vs R9r3 fights should be considered and that anything else is irrelevant. You think that anything under R9r3 should not be considered and does not matter. Time and time again you've stated that at end game Purify Spell is balanced and that people saying T3 Nirvana and lower shouldn't compare to it. Which is agreeable, as it takes more effort to get R9r3, however if there's an army of T3s after one R9r3 regardless of refine/gear difference those T3s should win. Period.

If I'm wrong, feel free to inform me, however this seems to be what you believe as evidenced by your posts.

There is no situation where 10 or 20 decently geared players should lose out to 1 super geared player, numbers should make up for gear when the gear is strong enough to take at least one hit.

@Azura that makes absolutely no sense. Stuns and seals should be nerfed because they activated Purify Spell too much? The only debuff you listed that would render Purify Spell remotely worthless is Seal, which you can kite away. Only an Assassin's or a Wizards seal lasts long enough stay for the duration of Purify Spell, however you cannot be slowed with it active allowing you to cover a lot of range even while sealed and prepare a counter attack.

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sure mods don't have to be neutral.

Over 75% of the thread is complaining about the proc in NW. Any other thread would have moved to the appropriate sub forum. That is a bit more than being on one side- that is actually going against what it means to be a mod.

While people are complaining about the proc primarily in NW, the proc doesn't stop existing when it's not between 8:20 and 10:20 pm server time. While people may complain that it's overpowered in NW, people can't overlook that it's also used in TW, 1v1 pvp, and PVE (yay soloing PV)

Hannsel - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yet again you fail to understand the point I'm trying to convey, your lack of comprehension is not my problem, nor can it be helped. I've repeated myself at least three times to you and Adroit, yet you both continuously fail to understand that it is not the T3 Nirvana players I am comparing to R9r3, but that I am using them as the situation in which both Melee and Arcane R9r3's much function in. It's the difference in functionality between Melee and Arcane that I'm comparing, not that specific gear to Arcane R9r3....

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

.... It is not relevant to the point I was trying to get across, which is that two R9r3's of the same gear level, only differing in that one is melee while the other is arcane, one of them will fare far better when put in a situation where there are multiple lower geared people, even if those lower geared people are at the level of R9 or T3. I'm not comparing the the different gear tiers in a straight fight, I'm comparing the same gear tier in the same situation against lower gear tiers. As long as that remains a possible or common situation my point is perfectly valid and as strong as it needs to be. Your counter-argument is weaker than you try to make my statement out to be if for no other reason than you fail to comprehend what I'm actually saying.

you want a non-purify user and a purify user to have similar survivability in a situation that favors purify spell (i.e vs a harem of g12/13 sins/BMs). is this the point you're addressing?

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Hannsel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

you want a non-purify user and a purify user to have similar survivability in a situation that favors purify spell (i.e vs a harem of g12/13 sins/BMs). is this the point you're addressing?

No, I want a Heavy Armor to have more survivability than an Arcane Armor in a situation involving a harem of G12/13/15/16/R9 of any class. Arcanes put out more damage than your typical melee class, and now they're able to survive better under certain conditions, which should be the case under no circumstance.

Raphxelion - Raging Tide

lol take purify proc away from wizz..then it will be at least more bearable x.x
i mean cmon they have that leap buff skill, then purify proc, then another leap then op dmg that one hits everyone in the game lol

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My understanding is this, you believe that only R9r3 should be considered a factor in whether or not Purify Spell is balanced. You believe that only R9r3 vs R9r3 fights should be considered and that anything else is irrelevant. You think that anything under R9r3 should not be considered and does not matter. Time and time again you've stated that at end game Purify Spell is balanced and that people saying T3 Nirvana and lower shouldn't compare to it. Which is agreeable, as it takes more effort to get R9r3, however if there's an army of T3s after one R9r3 regardless of refine/gear difference those T3s should win. Period.

If I'm wrong, feel free to inform me, however this seems to be what you believe as evidenced by your posts.

There is no situation where 10 or 20 decently geared players should lose out to 1 super geared player, numbers should make up for gear when the gear is strong enough to take at least one hit.

@Azura that makes absolutely no sense. Stuns and seals should be nerfed because they activated Purify Spell too much? The only debuff you listed that would render Purify Spell remotely worthless is Seal, which you can kite away. Only an Assassin's or a Wizards seal lasts long enough stay for the duration of Purify Spell, however you cannot be slowed with it active allowing you to cover a lot of range even while sealed and prepare a counter attack.

This is so what I was... trying to say... zanryu is just oh so much better at it than me, I am so leaving this thread alone since I am not providing anything all that constructive to it.

One more thing before I really leave this thread, I got linked by a friend a similarly refined piece of (nirvana third cast g16 (the ones you farm the mold for) and a r93r piece of armor. The difference? Nine... YUP 9 more BIG defense points on the r93r piece as well as 80?ish I think in the magical resistance field. (ergo the base stats are quite the same) They even refined for the same amount of hp, the only real big difference of them were the extra add ons on the gear, and while obviously that should be the case, its not significant enough that a few well geared g16 people should NOT be able to take down a r93r person regardless of their class, and the procs added on to the weapons, no one should be nigh impossible to kill, when faced with odds like that. Let alone have a proc that greatly benefits them if lowered geared people jump in to 'help' kill the r93r. )

Anyways I really am done now... I wont be able to come back to reply as I wont have access to my computer until after maint... I am going to watch a movie! Go me!

Adroit - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

My understanding is this, you believe that only R9r3 should be considered a factor in whether or not Purify Spell is balanced. You believe that only R9r3 vs R9r3 fights should be considered and that anything else is irrelevant. You think that anything under R9r3 should not be considered and does not matter. Time and time again you've stated that at end game Purify Spell is balanced and that people saying T3 Nirvana and lower shouldn't compare to it. Which is agreeable, as it takes more effort to get R9r3, however if there's an army of T3s after one R9r3 regardless of refine/gear difference those T3s should win. Period.

If I'm wrong, feel free to inform me, however this seems to be what you believe as evidenced by your posts.

There is no situation where 10 or 20 decently geared players should lose out to 1 super geared player, numbers should make up for gear when the gear is strong enough to take at least one hit.

So your problem is that there is a massive gear gap between what you consider decent (T3 nv) and end game r9rr. To be fair, if someone was running around in T3 nv with the same refines/shards as I have in my armor, they wouldn't be crazy far behind.. the issue is that most people that go down the cheaper gear path also have far lower refines/shards etc and are unable to compete. An army of people running around in T3 nv in full +5 refines I'd easily wipe out, the same army with +10 refines would be much more difficult. From what it sounds like, you actually agree with me other than your definition of "decent" geared players.. lmao

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

So your problem is that there is a massive gear gap between what you consider decent (T3 nv) and end game r9rr. To be fair, if someone was running around in T3 nv with the same refines/shards as I have in my armor, they wouldn't be crazy far behind.. the issue is that most people that go down the cheaper gear path also have far lower refines/shards etc and are unable to compete. An army of people running around in T3 nv in full +5 refines I'd easily wipe out, the same army with +10 refines would be much more difficult. From what it sounds like, you actually agree with me other than your definition of "decent" geared players.. lmao

Oh? How is it that I agree with you?

First you say my opinions are irrelevant, then you say I'm wrong, now you're saying I'm in agreement with you for the most part. You seem rather fickle, Adroit. It would seem as if I haven't dug myself into a hole as you said, or if I had it isn't very deep. Oh well.

Also, anything G16 at +5 or above counts as decent. At that level of gear a lot of options open up and you can compete more efficiently than you could with anything lower. +10 on any set of gear is reserved for those with money, it's superior to "decent" gear.

Now let me ask you, if the subject we're discussing right now is G16 "noob" geared people or lower all going against an R9r3, then isn't putting one of them in equal refines/shards irrelevant? No... actually, I'll indulge you. Let's imagine that a few of them are within the same gear bracket as you. They are your true enemies, however every other G16 there is nothing but a casualty to those three people in your bracket simply because the damage they output is not great enough to contribute to your death efficiently before Purify Spell can save you. Even in a situation facing a few people of equal gear tier, if those "decent" geared players try to contribute damage they will more than likely help you rather than hurt you.

MECHserac - Lost City

All i see here is QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ......

meelee classes have adv zerk, archers have advanced purge..... if they remove all that too then i agree they remove purify.

Nirvana gear will never compare to r9 3rd cast, so if ure qqing that you have nirvana gear against any r93rd cast just shut up and go farm r9 and npc that **** of nirvana gear you have and stop QQing about purify.

You all seem to be stupid in NW, instead of stuning and waiting for a veno to purge a r93rd cast with purify wep and then kill it, you try to aps it and keep hitting it to make purify wep proc, good game.

b:bye