Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Adroit - Lost City

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I do however feel though that the more intellectual people are anti-purify and that even you should recognize the supporters as being primarily imbeciles... and perhaps that says something..

I've found the opposite. Every single player that has ever offered me any challenge in pvp (that I've asked) has agreed that purify is fine as is (or in one case.. thought it didn't proc enough).. it is only people that are either undergeared, fail at their class, or both that seem to be complaining from my experience.

Tsyn - Raging Tide

Snow.

@Brilliance: Public forums, public discussion. Take it to the PMs if you don't want interruptions. We've suffered yours; now suffer ours.

Also: Nice way to dodge my replies.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I've found the opposite. Every single player that has ever offered me any challenge in pvp (that I've asked) has agreed that purify is fine as is (or in one case.. thought it didn't proc enough).. it is only people that are either undergeared, fail at their class, or both that seem to be complaining from my experience.

I would completely agree with you on this point! You stated "every single player". single. Purify is completely fine 1v1. I thought that was repeated enough.

We're complaining about group PvP here. Not 1v1s.

ovenusarmanio

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

A purify spell, proc or anything else will not 'save' someone.

I claimed it is not the reason an undergeared player will never kill an R9T3 +12 JosD caster, which is not the same as any old caster.

You yourself claim somehow a purify proc will "avoid the killing blow". You mean like dodgeball or something? Proc purify, released, body shifts spontaneously away from killing blows? I honestly think you are giving it way more credit than it deserves, but whatever.

No as in they break the lock, remove the debuffs that would have caused that damage to be much stronger and probably kill them, and are able to get away. And you replied to someone who specifically said that in the situation where they killed the same geared melee, they could not kill the caster. Purify proc saves casters from losing against all different types of people. I don't even know why it's up for debate.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

You can suggest to the Devs to tweak the proc if you like, based on the QQ's of a couple players. That's your choice. I hope for the players of this game, it turns out to be a good one. Won't effect me, in case that's your motivation for feeding words into my mouth, lol. I has a cool and groovy plain old R8 wand. b:chuckle

Will you be asking them to tweak a clerics purify spell and a mystic's proc for the same reason?

So caster's cannot ever run the flag...*reflects on her comment that she doesn't care if she goes to NW or not, lol*

Will you be asking the devs to fix every undergeared Sage Mystic's AS too, since it is broken when facing higher geared players, or are you only concerned with 2 melee players?

I never said I was suggestion anything, and have specifically said repeatedly I don't think Purify Proc should necessarily be nerfed as the problem lies in NW. The gms read the replies in this thread and do what they wish if anything at all. In fact, the poll shows that most people are in favor of it staying around. As for clericy purify and such, that's a strawman argument and not even a good strawman since those are all obviously different.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Then you suggest TW factions for undergeared players should kick them or something?

I'm saying purify proc isn't as a big deal in other comparable group pvp situations, because there are things people can do to remove the problem players. As Adroit suggested when he said to just kill the moron sin apsing a purify proc user with bad damage, is another example. Not doable in NW but easy enough in group pk. TW factions don't have to put up with, you don't have to put up with it in group PK, the only area that forces you to be around people with not as good of gear is NW. Which also happens to be a large farming instance and effects people's ability to make purchases.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Lol, where are R9T3 BMs being punished?? Omg, poor lil thingies aren't they

By losing a battle because his teammates wanted to help him, the caster is not similarly impaired. If a sin with junk gear attacks the bm and locks him down, and applies his debuff, and then proceeds to just aps his target because that's only three moves he knows. The caster is assisted. When the same sin attempts to help the bm by doing the same thing to the caster, the bm could very well lose through no fault of his own thanks to the sin. You can't just eliminate players with less gear from NW, because you have no control over them. Because it's the primary farming instance, so of course they will come. And because nobody shoots out of the womb with r999+12 JOSDs and full knowledge of PVP mechanics. So ofc there will ALWAYS be someone around with less gear or skill. One group can ignore this person, the other is hindered by them. It's a legitimate complaint. Losing the battle also means he gets less tokens, even though he did everything right and should have gotten the kill, btw. And once again, none of this means that purify should be nerfed. I've said that over and over again, so please do not adopt false stances for me. I'm not recommending anything.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Since you responded to my posts so very condescendingly and aggressively, while interpreting my words any old way you wish, and making your own story out of what I have said completely, I must confess I have serious concerns as to your motivation.

Have I annoyed the mighty, all-knowing and powerful you recently, or something? Or, is this your current demeanor toward everyone? *looks around thread*

I simply pointed out that it could save casters. If you honestly refuse to admit that it won't, that's fine. I'm just pointing out that it can. I replied to your point because i'm more familiar with NW and can comment on that. I will not presume to know how nerfing it would affect endgame stuff such as TW or 1v1, which is why I won't say one way or another whether or not it should be nerfed. I haven't really seen many people arguing it should be nerfed in those areas though, which leads me to believe that the problem might be NW itself and not necessarily the proc. BUT IDK enough about it to make that call yet, so I'll just continue to sit here on my little fence. If you found out it aggressive, what can I say, wasn't meant to be. I didn't call you any names or anything of the sort. I just strongly disagreed with you.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Snow.

@Brilliance: Public forums, public discussion. Take it to the PMs if you don't want interruptions. We've suffered yours; now suffer ours.

You got it backwards, Sunshine. I've suffered yours, by you making this thread and me sticking up for what's right, in my opinion - which I am entitled to.

You want to include youself in something I feel is a personal situation involving me and certain attitudes from an authority figure that do not concern you.

That is not really a wise thing to do, but carry on if you like.

MasterPerian - Lost City

QQb:bye

Eoria - Harshlands

A. Why the hell are any of you replying to Brilliance? Have none of you ever been to the mystic forums?

B. Purify has a counter. It's called disarm. Currently, BMs and seekers can both do this and, if I am not reading the skill info Asterelle posted wrong, veno pets will also be able to do this to some capacity when we get the pet patch. It also has another counter that goes along with it. It's called not facerolling like an idiot.

Tsyn - Raging Tide

Further edit because of Eoria: No, I haven't, actually. Haven't had any trouble with mystics in PvP > don't need any further information.

Alright, not going to bother anymore apparently as that would be a pointless venture... What a disgrace to people like Adroit and Fissile, who actually have legitimate arguments.

BMs cannot use it consistently (long CD), seekers only have a % to work (nothing reliable). If you ask me, finding an exact class to get the job done is too rare, especially in the heated environment of group PvP. It should be a tactic, not an actual skill, that should be able to counteract purify.

And at that moment, the only tactic that works right now is telling people to stop attacking S3 arcanes, which will never work.

Brillance - Raging Tide

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

No as in they break the lock, remove the debuffs that would have caused that damage to be much stronger and probably kill them, and are able to get away. And you replied to someone who specifically said that in the situation where they killed the same geared melee, they could not kill the caster. Purify proc saves casters from losing against all different types of people. I don't even know why it's up for debate.

Did you read the thread at all? The premise is a 20v1 and that darn overgeared caster still not dying because his purify proc saved him.

You are wrong here. It freed him, it did not 'save' him. The premise IS that with 20 noobs on you, you should be easily killed EXCEPT for the UNDEBATEABLE FACT that your weaponed procced a Purify - which totally and unequivocally should have the R9T3+12 JosD caster lying dead at the 20 undergeared players feet.

I know you can't possibly believe that. I know you can't possibly have done more than come into a conversation without researching - at least not what you chose to pluck up and reply to to me.



I never said I was suggestion anything, and have specifically said repeatedly I don't think Purify Proc should necessarily be nerfed as the problem lies in NW. The gms will read all the replies in this thread and do what they wish if anything at all. In fact, the poll shows that most people are in favor of it staying around. As for clericy purify and such, that's a strawman argument and not even a good strawman since those are all obviously different.

Fine.

I'm saying purify proc isn't as a big deal in other comparable group pvp situations, because there are things people can do to remove the problem players. As Adroit suggested when he said to just kill the moron sin apsing a purify proc user with bad damage, is another example. Not doable in NW but easy enough in group pk. TW factions don't have to put up with, you don't have to put up with it in group PK, the only area that forces you to be around people with not as good of gear is NW. Which also happens to be a large farming instance and effects people's ability to make purchases.

Yeah, maybe R9T3+12 JosD should be banned from it, since they really dont need any tokens, right? I know full well how people's ability to make purchases is effected. I'm the girl ending two hours of spawn-killed excitement with 32 tokens, lol.

By losing a battle because his teammates wanted to help him, the caster is not similarly impaired.

HIS teamates can learn to look at gears and see what that Caster is capable of before 20 try to see if they can bring down 1. Changes up the game a bit. Makes players think and react faster and smarter. Maybe they would rethink trying the undergeared gank next time?


If a sin with junk gear attacks the bm and locks him down, and applies his debuff, and then proceeds to just aps his target because that's only three moves he knows. The caster is assisted.

Okay. Was his choice to do that.

When the same sin attempts to help the bm by doing the same thing to the caster, the bm could very well lose through no fault of his own thanks to the sin.

Would build better teamwork, force players to socialise long enough to avoid pitfalls for their team. NW for many is about teamwork.

You can't just eliminate players with less gear from NW, because you have no control over them.

I agree. Forces higher geared players to learn how to work with someone besides their usual friends. Good thing for the game.

Because it's the primary farming instance, so of course they will come. And because nobody shoots out of the womb with r999+12 JOSDs and full knowledge of PVP mechanics.

True.

So ofc there will ALWAYS be someone around with less gear or skill.

High gear does not equal high skill. Chance for everyone to learn.

One group can ignore this person, the other is hindered by them.

Isnt that the way of war? Isnt that where the term 'FUBAR' comes from? More than people can end up going FUBAR, tactics and stradegy can go FUBAR too.

It's a legitimate complaint. Losing the battle also means he gets less tokens, even though he did everything right and should have gotten the kill, btw. And once again, none of this means that purify should be nerfed. I've said that over and over again, so please do not adopt false stances for me. I'm not recommending anything.

I felt threatened when I read what you said. If you did not exactly mean what you did write, I can accept that. Do not continue to malign me by telling me I'm adopting false stances toward you. I'm not in the business of attacking anyone if you have been reading my posts for a while; and, I know you have.

I simply pointed out that it could save casters.

Fine, but you are fostering a belief that the undergeared can succeed against R9T3+12 JosD in NW if they only didnt have a purify proc on their weapon. It could help save a regular caster maybe. If you believe 20 noobs can and should endeavor to try to kill 1 over-geared caster, and that their complaint and long held belief that this weapon proc IS their only problem doing so and you want to support that idea. That's your right. You are entitled to your opinion.

If you found out it aggressive, what can I say, wasn't meant to be. I didn't call you any names or anything of the sort. I just strongly disagreed with you.

You are free to disagree with me on any point. As I said, I accept that your written words may not truely convey what you meant.

Decus - Dreamweaver

As has been proposed numerous times already, "cap the flag carrier speed and we'd see a grand majority of the debate subside." (I would quote myself and others that have said so, but I've neither the time nor energy to search it out and do so now.)

Also, why not limit Purify to proc'ing only when debuffs are not applied? This is the case for Blackhole (though not the case for GoF as far as I know, so it would need some balancing). It seems fair to me. If my r999 proc gets a limitation, why can't others?

Tsyn - Raging Tide

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Also, why not limit Purify to proc'ing only when debuffs are not applied? This is the case for Blackhole (though not the case for GoF as far as I know, so it would need some balancing). It seems fair to me. If my r999 proc gets a limitation, why can't others?

...I actually like this idea a lot. We'd have Blackhole as a previous precedence.... but that might be hard to implement. I have a feeling SB's proc characteristics were more of a mistake than an actual feature. PWE would have trouble moving it over.

Eoria - Harshlands

So wait. You guys want a proc that was designed to help break out of stunlocks to not proc when the things it's trying to help prevent against are applied to the proc user? wut.



Really, just take away the speed boost. Then we can't run for dayssssss without using genie or a pot and you'll find us a lot easier to control again because we don't get a free holy path everytime it procs.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

I like Decus's's's's's's idea.

It'd still work while getting locked.. not every attack debuffs Eoria. In group PvP it may fail if the teams are well enough coordinated so as to only use debuff attacks, however an Arcane shouldn't tank that many people anyway.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

So wait. You guys want a proc that was designed to help break out of stunlocks to not proc when the things it's trying to help prevent against are applied to the proc user? wut.



Really, just take away the speed boost. Then we can't run for dayssssss without using genie or a pot and you'll find us a lot easier to control again because we don't get a free holy path everytime it procs.

I'm okay with either idea, honestly. I supported the speed cap pages and pages ago. However, and admittedly somewhat tangentially, I'd like to have the freedom to proc on any skill, like GoF and Purify do.

Adroit - Lost City

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

...I actually like this idea a lot. We'd have Blackhole as a previous precedence.... but that might be hard to implement. I have a feeling SB's proc characteristics were more of a mistake than an actual feature. PWE would have trouble moving it over.

That suggestion would absolutely cripple purify proc, which I'm obviously not in favor of.

You said earlier, 'We're complaining about group PvP here. Not 1v1s." You may want to speak for yourself, the people you are siding with are arguing for all sorts of things.. not just the position that OP is fine in 1v1s and not anywhere else.

I don't think there is anything wrong with proc at all, I wouldn't have a problem with some sort of change to NW such as capping the max run speed or adding a blinding blaze effect to the flag icon, but singling out proc alone is silly.

MasterPerian - Lost City

Hey guys trying to get the purify spell (purge off negative status) nurfed defeats the purpose of the skill name "Purify Spell" also the speed buff can be an issue if your under geared. Guess what kids go get +12 r9 3rd cast and two shot them average +10 r9 3rd cast players. If your facing a +12 JOSD r9 3rd cast player well then good luck because that is gonna be a fun fight more power to you both.

Half the people here complaining don't even have mid-game gear.

I answered the problem now stop QQing and pay to win or merchant hard b:bye

ovenusarmanio

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Did you read the thread at all? The premise is a 20v1 and that darn overgeared caster still not dying because his purify proc saved him.

Yes, the other half of that premise is that the overgeared melee did not die in the exact same situation. One is saved a lot, the other one dies.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

You are wrong here. It freed him, it did not 'save' him. The premise IS that with 20 noobs on you, you should be easily killed EXCEPT for the UNDEBATEABLE FACT that your weaponed procced a Purify - which totally and unequivocally should have the R9T3+12 JosD caster lying dead at the 20 undergeared players feet. I know you can't possibly believe that. I know you can't possibly have done more than come into a conversation without researching - at least not what you chose to pluck up and reply to to me.I know you can't possibly believe that. I know you can't possibly have done more than come into a conversation without researching - at least not what you chose to pluck up and reply to to me.

The premise is that adding noobs to a battle will increase the odds of survival for the caster, because it increases the chances that puri will proc and save the caster. This is considered broken by some, and just fine by some. I have seen melees lose and casters win where the situation was exactly the same, constant locking as opposed to killing. The only difference being the purify proc. Also, if you're going to make things difficult to quote by adding colors at least make sure you're coloring your own replies so it doesn't look like I said it.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yeah, maybe R9T3+12 JosD should be banned from it, since they really dont need any tokens, right? I know full well how people's ability to make purchases is effected. I'm the girl ending two hours of spawn-killed excitement with 32 tokens, lol.

What?

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

HIS teamates can learn to look at gears and see what that Caster is capable of before 20 try to see if they can bring down 1. Changes up the game a bit. Makes players think and react faster and smarter. Maybe they would rethink trying the undergeared gank next time?

He always, 100% of the time, end up with players who have less gear than him. Or less skill. That situation is completely and 100% unavoidable. He can't just rely on the entire playbase just magically learning how to play. He is and will always be forced to team with people with lesser gear than himself. Which is why the fact that this hinders one and only one group of people, while helping one and only group of people, a legitimate complaint.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Okay. Was his choice to do that

Would build better teamwork, force players to socialise long enough to avoid pitfalls for their team. NW for many is about teamwork..

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

I agree. Forces higher geared players to learn how to work with someone besides their usual friends. Good thing for the game

See above. And even though it's that sin's moron choice. The BM has to pay for it too though. By not getting a kill he otherwise would have. And possibly monetarily by losing the instance.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Isnt that the way of war? Isnt that where the term 'FUBAR' comes from? More than people can end up going FUBAR, tactics and stradegy can go FUBAR too.

I agree, it does FUBAR things. The question is it doing so too much.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

I felt threatened when I read what you said. If you did not exactly mean what you did write, I can accept that. Do not continue to malign me by telling me I'm adopting false stances toward you. I'm not in the business of attacking anyone if you have been reading my posts for a while; and, I know you have.

I didn't write it with any kind of tone. and I won't say that if you don't claim I have other motivations for replying to you, or insinuate I'm gonna run to the GMS and ask them to nerf things.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Fine, but you are fostering a belief that the undergeared can succeed against R9T3+12 JosD in NW if they only didnt have a purify proc on their weapon. It could help save a regular caster maybe. If you believe 20 noobs can and should endeavor to try to kill 1 over-geared caster, and that their complaint and long held belief that this weapon proc IS their only problem doing so and you want to support that idea. That's your right. You are entitled to your opinion.

They shouldn't endeavor to kill them. THey should use their control skills to attempt to remove that person from the fight so that someone else can sneak the flag by. It can and does happen. Not often, but enough that many people who do NW a lot have probably experienced it.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

You are free to disagree with me on any point. As I said, I accept that your written words may not truely convey what you meant.

You should just assume a neutral tone when I write things.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

It seems the only argument for purify proc is that it is op when the player has refines above+10 and josd. The average player has neither of those. Seems dumb to propose a nerf to the majority of players geared in the +5-10 range with cit,dot, or garnet gemed because of how op a minority seem. Esp when even that minority is and can be killed when faced with a character of equal opness.

Brillance - Raging Tide

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Yes, the other half of that premise is that the overgeared melee did not die in the exact same situation. One is saved a lot, the other one dies.



The premise is that adding noobs to a battle will increase the odds of survival for the caster, because it increases the chances that puri will proc and save the caster. This is considered broken by some, and just fine by some. I have seen melees lose and casters win where the situation was exactly the same, constant locking as opposed to killing. The only difference being the purify proc. Also, if you're going to make things difficult to quote by adding colors at least make sure you're coloring your own replies so it doesn't look like I said it.



What?

He always, 100% of the time, end up with players who have less gear than him. Or less skill. That situation is completely and 100% unavoidable. He can't just rely on the entire playbase just magically learning how to play. He is and will always be forced to team with people with lesser gear than himself. Which is why the fact that this hinders one and only one group of people, while helping one and only group of people, a legitimate complaint.






See above. And even though it's that sin's moron choice. The BM has to pay for it too though. By not getting a kill he otherwise would have. And possibly monetarily by losing the instance.



I agree, it does FUBAR things. The question is it doing so too much.



I didn't write it with any kind of tone. and I won't say that if you don't claim I have other motivations for replying to you, or insinuate I'm gonna run to the GMS and ask them to nerf things.



They shouldn't endeavor to kill them. THey should use their control skills to attempt to remove that person from the fight so that someone else can sneak the flag by. It can and does happen. Not often, but enough that many people who do NW a lot have probably experienced it.



You should just assume a neutral tone when I write things.

No, you should assume a neutral tone when posting to me.

A snotty, condescending, "Please tell me you understand...blah, blah blah.." will never be seen as someone speaking in a neutral tone.

I'll leave you to argue amongst yourself. Good night.

Tsyn - Raging Tide

Hmm. They've disabled genie, stealth, mounts, and flight while in flag mode.

Here's an interesting solution: Disable all weapon procs while holding the flag.

1. Casters would still be available as a destructive force in NW - they could kill any flag carrier (though not be a flag carrier themself as effectively).

2. Venos and similar casters could still flag it.

3. 20v1 is still possible for those power-hungry arcanes. They would just need to play more defensively till their backup arrived, and they still would win when that happened.

4. Other classes (particularly people who still kill while with the flag) would be somewhat affected.

5. This would stem the majority of the Purify complaints, as most people apparently only care about that, and not group PvP/TW/1v1 implications.

6. 1v1 would not be affected, obviously.

If God of Frenzy automatically disables itself when the user has 5% hp or less (can never suicide on GoF while autoattacking an npc), couldn't we apply the same thing to all other procs, for just certain NW situations?

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

No, you should assume a neutral tone when posting to me.

A snotty, condescending, "Please tell me you understand...blah, blah blah.." will never be seen as someone speaking in a neutral tone.

I'll leave you to argue amongst yourself. Good night.

I know I can't speak for the mod or others, but I think any sympathy you may of had probably just flew out of the window.

I didn't see a single post where anyone that you are accusing of 'condescending' you, actually called you out as stupid or anything of the like. If you are going to get upset over what YOU perceive as rude, then actually get upset at the people like kni who actually truly flame baited you.

As that old saying goes, assumptions make an '*** (out of) U (and) ME.'

IMHO the mod brought up some highly valid points, all while remaining as neutral as possible, they even went out of their way a few times to say 'it doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be nerfed' and yet you continue to attack venus as if though she is the enemy and she just insulted you in the worse way possible which is simply not the case in my own opinion.

EDIT: Funny thing is that in open pvp the skill could still be perceived as a tad bit overpowered in certain situations, is just that no one cares about it enough to continually bring it up. HOWEVER, that doesn't change the fact that there are instances even in open pvp that could seriously help the caster get away, and continue their attacks.

Let look at this scenario shall we? A caster and melee are fighting equally geared, both are down to the last few kish life, a ranged person comes in to 'assist' the melee, and instead of killing the caster, (who is locked down) it allows the caster to kite away giving them plenty of time for their charm to tick, the melee then turns their attention to the person who came in to help' by the time they find the person who came in to help, get over kill them, then turn their attention back to the caster, the caster gets a few good shots in, long before the melee gets back over to them. (meaning more charm ticks from the melee person.) Simple truth of the matter is that the proc allowed them to skate away, and get in a few 'free' shots that IMHO seriously costs the melee person dearly. (Do note I am not claiming that one or the other will undoubtedly be the victor but still... it doesn't seem fair that in any scenario regardless if it's nw or not where more damage = a higher chance for a proc to.... process allow one to run away.. that is just ridiculously sad.)... I realize this may hold little merit coming from someone on a pve server, but still, I can see it being an issue there, if its an issue in nw, it can be an issue elsewhere, albeit a far less frequent issue.

BungaSakura - Raging Tide

The only problem in this thread is, some ppl already ask to move this in NW section or close it already because the discusion it wont be end. But i can see all moderator that post reply in here are support puri being nerf or maybe remove. So in this case, they are not neutral. this is my opinion.

Azura - Lost City

Everyone stop qqing, and start to gear up, otherwise shut up.

If you had good gear you would see it's not imposible to kill r9-3 people. In my servers there a many casters with full josd r9-3 and they still die.

The biggest problem for all here is NW. In NW my team's biggest troubles are barbs because they are so fast, and they don't die easily. The next ones are archers because many times they use their running skill, and it's imposible to reach them unless you are already ready for interception. Casters, they all die easily. I debuff them, my team focus them, they prok, one second later, they die.

How come no one here is complaining about sage sins? Their tidals makes stunlocking them, almost imposible. I've seen many times some sage sins running all the way to the capture point w.o anyone being able to stun them. Nerf too because I lost?

I am a vitality build veno. I have r9-3 gear, all +11, a LA helmet +11, matchless cape +10, g14 cube necklace +10, 2 sky covers with one being +11, and another +10. All that gives me 25362 hp, 27141 defense, 18307 magic defense with 53 defense levels. When I fight against a bunch of noobs, it's like having a perma holy path. When I fight againts people of my same level, I sometimes die in the spot full buffed. I know what I'm talking about.

I wonder if the qq-ers problem is that our prok is really nice. Do you want to have it too? Either reroll, or start another qq thread to get a new prok.

I really suggest to move this thread to NW sub-forum, since the main problem is with that instance. Btw, soon NW will change again, why not stop the qq for now?

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

The only problem in this thread is, some ppl already ask to move this in NW section or close it already because the discusion it wont be end. But i can see the, all moderator that post reply in here are support puri being nerf or maybe remove. So in this case, they are not neutral. this is my opinion.

I'm starting to think the mods here aren't neutral, indeed.

Farewell qqers, good luck in NW.

Decus - Dreamweaver

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

The only problem in this thread is, some ppl already ask to move this in NW section or close it already because the discusion it wont be end. But i can see all moderator that post reply in here are support puri being nerf or maybe remove. So in this case, they are not neutral. this is my opinion.

When have mods ever had to be neutral? They are allowed to have opinions on issues and discuss them in the same manner we do. They are not employees of the company.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Everyone stop qqing, and start to gear up, otherwise shut up.

If you had good gear you would see it's not imposible to kill r9-3 people. In my servers there a many casters with full josd r9-3 and they still die.

The biggest problem for all here is NW. In NW my team's biggest troubles are barbs because they are so fast, and they don't die easily. The next ones are archers because many times they use their running skill, and it's imposible to reach them unless you are already ready for interception. Casters, they all die easily. I debuff them, my team focus them, they prok, one second later, they die.

How come no one here is complaining about sage sins? Their tidals makes stunlocking them, almost imposible. I've seen many times some sage sins running all the way to the capture point w.o anyone being able to stun them. Nerf too because I lost?

I am a vitality build veno. I have r9-3 gear, all +11, a LA helmet +11, matchless cape +10, g14 cube necklace +10, 2 sky covers with one being +11, and another +10. All that gives me 25362 hp, 27141 defense, 18307 magic defense with 53 defense levels. When I fight against a bunch of noobs, it's like having a perma holy path. When I fight againts people of my same level, I sometimes die in the spot full buffed. I know what I'm talking about.

I wonder if the qq-ers problem is that our prok is really nice. Do you want to have it too? Either reroll, or start another qq thread to get a new prok.

I really suggest to move this thread to NW sub-forum, since the main problem is with that instance. Btw, soon NW will change again, why not stop the qq for now?



I'm starting to think the mods here aren't neutral, indeed.

Farewell qqers, good luck in NW.

1. They're are forum mods.

2. They are allowed to have opinions, and just because the opinions lean more in favor of a nerf/modify, it does NOT mean that they aren't remaining as neutral as possible.

3. No, I am not trying to 'butt-kiss' my way to get them to nerf it, that would be an asinine comment as forum mods have NO control over what gets changed, hell even if some of the admins on these forums/game agreed with those of us who are saying it's overpowered all they can do is deliver a note to the devs, and hope they get it changed, but if they don't they're SOL as are all the people who are voicing their concerns over this proc.



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I stil don't get why casters all seem to want to have an insane survival-ability, (that gets seriously complemented by a skill that has it's clear advantages in certain situations, no matter how obscure the situations may be.... that it REALLY should NOT) as well a insane hits on melees. (I get it that is how its suppose to be, but your suppose to be an easy kill for us melees when we get near you.. provided we actually have the damage to actually kill you, and imo g16+10 should more then suffice)

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver

Sure mods don't have to be neutral.

Over 75% of the thread is complaining about the proc in NW. Any other thread would have moved to the appropriate sub forum. That is a bit more than being on one side- that is actually going against what it means to be a mod.

XSonOfCircex - Sanctuary

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

The only problem in this thread is, some ppl already ask to move this in NW section or close it already because the discusion it wont be end. But i can see all moderator that post reply in here are support puri being nerf or maybe remove. So in this case, they are not neutral. this is my opinion.

Mods are allowed (and expected) to have opinions, they're just obligated to make sure that when they do post their opinions, they're respectful and obey all the forum rules.

If Hey You or Genotypist comes on and starts either supporting PS or supporting it's removal that would be problematic, but Venus and the rest of the mods are players just like the rest of us, they just happen to also be around on the forum to ensure that it doesn't get out of hand. (A job they're rarely thanked for, despite the fact that in reality their presence helps keep the forum a fun place, rather than a huge trollfest)

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sure mods don't have to be neutral.

Over 75% of the thread is complaining about the proc in NW. Any other thread would have moved to the appropriate sub forum. That is a bit more than being on one side- that is actually going against what it means to be a mod.

Damn this thing has derailed a lot, (am so expecting to have a few of my posts removed and I'll know why. )

Really I think they have a damn good reason for leaving it where it is, I seriously doubt that this thread would have anywhere near as much attention as it has here then in the pvp/nw section, as they would say, I suggest inquiring about why they are moding it so in pms.

It of course may seem like something they aren't intending at all. They are humans after all just like us. They don't expect us to always understand why things are the way they are, (they may not clarify in public, but they have a good reason for it, just pm them most are more than willing to say why it is they're modding it so) so we should do the same for them, stop jumping to conclusions like that. I knew a few mods have steered clear of this thread entirely, except to make sure, the rules are being followed.

Azura - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

...but your suppose to be an easy kill for us melees when we get near you...

The typical actitude of all the qqers here. You think we are supposed to do die to your noob ***. Gtfo.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

and imo g16+10 should more then suffice

G16 is nirvana 3rd cast too. You need to clarify, and I hope you don't mean nirvana gear because then you are out of your mind.

If you are not going to address all my post, then don't fking quote it all.

Eoria - Harshlands

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

(I get it that is how its suppose to be, but your suppose to be an easy kill for us melees when we get near you.. provided we actually have the damage to actually kill you, and imo g16+10 should more then suffice)

No it shouldn't because it's an entirely different gear tier. A normal r9 or g16 Nirv person typically should not be able to kill a r9rr. Obviously, there are a lot of exceptions. But generally if you're, say, a BM with full +10 g16 Nirv gear trying to fight a mage geared like Adroit, no, you shouldn't be able to kill that mage unless they're just really ****ing bad and you get lucky.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

The typical actitude of all the qqers here. You think we are supposed to do die to your noob ***. Gtfo.


G16 is nirvana 3rd cast too. You need to clarify, and I hope you don't mean nirvana gear because then you are out of your mind.

If you are not going to address all my post, then don't fking quote it all.

Ha, and you seem to think you should have superior survivability without sacrificing damage output. You seem angry, Azura. Perhaps you should come down and approach this rationally.