Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Northern - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Perfect world has been a solo/duo or even trio played game from about 6 months after the tideborn expansion.

Decus - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Northern - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Perfect world has been a solo/duo or even trio played game from about 6 months after the tideborn expansion.

I fail to see what this brings to the discussion. The solution to a broken mechanic is not more broken mechanics.

nonu0958 · April 2013

Well, purify makes it so that eventually casters will be more welcome to pve squads so it sorta balances out the broken aps in pve. To be fair if they take away purify, they should take away anything higher than 2.86 aps.

The only argument about it being broken is in Nation wars where it really isn't that big of factor unless they are a mega powered character which is the exception not the majority and even then if there are other mega powers than it's likely still going to end in death for them. A same geared archer or bm runs the flag just as well in most nws.

Yeah purify makes us better group noob killers, big deal. Geuss that is now our strength,.

Azura - Lost City · April 2013

I'm starting to think that the main problem with this thread is that some people think HA users should dominate in all aspects of the game because they are HA, and by definition they are the best tank, and shouldn't die to anything less than 10 players (because heavy means: heavy!). It seems they can't adjust to the idea of mages doing the same activities as them. I think it's best for eveyone that we no longer have to get a barb to pull for Warsong, let's say. Now, if no barb wants do pve, then we just let this mage pull for everyone. And for nation wars, now we have more options for our squad because every class can bear the flag.

MasterPerian - Lost City · April 2013

This thread is still going lol.... stop complaining.

Mingkeey - Lost City · April 2013

Lets just change the topic on this thread than it will be closed.Can anyone help me with quests?

Mingkeey - Lost City · April 2013

It's really nice outsideSo warm!!Sun feels so good!Everyone should go outside!
What do you guys like to do when you relax outside?Anyone got a swimming pool?

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

I'm starting to think that the main problem with this thread is that some people think HA users should dominate in all aspects of the game because they are HA, and by definition they are the best tank, and shouldn't die to anything less than 10 players (because heavy means: heavy!). It seems they can't adjust to the idea of mages doing the same activities as them. I think it's best for eveyone that we no longer have to get a barb to pull for Warsong, let's say. Now, if no barb wants do pve, then we just let this mage pull for everyone. And for nation wars, now we have more options for our squad because every class can bear the flag.

That's an extreme assumption. Just because people thing HA should be better at pulling/tanking mobs than an Arcane doesn't mean they think it should take insane amounts of damage to kill them. Arcanes are supposed to deal higher damage per hit but get hit harder than Melee, however PWI has twisted this and made it so certain Arcanes are able to take hits like a Melee, and still deal far more damage. Purify Spell enforces this by giving them the power to surpass Melee's mob pulling potential, as the more mobs on them the more it activates, essentially giving them a permanent speed buff.

Mages of any kind should not be able to out-perform Melee in that aspect unless they're stupidly overgeared in comparison because of the different class rolls. If the caster can tank mobs, hey good on them, but they shouldn't be able to do everything the melee can and be better at it. Like pulling. As it stands the only PvE content left that Mages aren't better at would be bosses, and while I get that it's always been like that, it's also always been that mages packed out far more damage on regular mobs. Back in the days of Gamma and FC, who was it that would draw aggro if the barb wasn't doing his job or the BM wasn't stunning? Wizards. Why? They have much higher damage. This gap in power only increases when you start increasing gear and refines.

There has to be some kind of balance, but as it stands Arcanes have obtained near-supremacy in the game in both PvE and PvP. There are very few things a Melee can actually do better now, and with the addition of NW those matter very little. You know, TT, Nirvana, FC, all those good things. At least in the old days of APS domination an equally gear Mage could very well win if they had the same skill level of the APS user, and that same APS user did not encroach on their PvE mob killing domination. However, thanks to Purify Spell, Arcanes have become better pulls than Melee in commonly run instances while requiring no resources such as apothecary or genies.

Something seems off to me about it, even if we aren't talking about PvP.

Azura - Lost City · April 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's an extreme assumption. Just because people thing HA should be better at pulling/tanking mobs than an Arcane doesn't mean they think it should take insane amounts of damage to kill them. Arcanes are supposed to deal higher damage per hit but get hit harder than Melee, however PWI has twisted this and made it so certain Arcanes are able to take hits like a Melee, and still deal far more damage. Purify Spell enforces this by giving them the power to surpass Melee's mob pulling potential, as the more mobs on them the more it activates, essentially giving them a permanent speed buff.

Mages of any kind should not be able to out-perform Melee in that aspect unless they're stupidly overgeared in comparison because of the different class rolls. If the caster can tank mobs, hey good on them, but they shouldn't be able to do everything the melee can and be better at it. Like pulling. As it stands the only PvE content left that Mages aren't better at would be bosses, and while I get that it's always been like that, it's also always been that mages packed out far more damage on regular mobs. Back in the days of Gamma and FC, who was it that would draw aggro if the barb wasn't doing his job or the BM wasn't stunning? Wizards. Why? They have much higher damage. This gap in power only increases when you start increasing gear and refines.

There has to be some kind of balance, but as it stands Arcanes have obtained near-supremacy in the game in both PvE and PvP. There are very few things a Melee can actually do better now, and with the addition of NW those matter very little. You know, TT, Nirvana, FC, all those good things. At least in the old days of APS domination an equally gear Mage could very well win if they had the same skill level of the APS user, and that same APS user did not encroach on their PvE mob killing domination. However, thanks to Purify Spell, Arcanes have become better pulls than Melee in commonly run instances while requiring no resources such as apothecary or genies.

Something seems off to me about it, even if we aren't talking about PvP.

See? You just agreed with all what I just said. Why in the 1st place do you think it must be heavy armor users the ones with certain roles? Who do you think you are to define that? The game changed? It's not the 1st time this happened, this game changes a lot, and as long as it lives it will continue to change.

I remember very well when venos were the dominant force in all aspects of the game. The richests farmers were venos, and the most feared pkers were venos. The game changed, and it didn't favor venos anymore. Most people rerolled to new classes. While most were rerolling to sins or bms (the aps craze) I stayed with my class, and discovered there was more to venos than just sending a phoenix to bleed people, and use a few scarabs to finish them off. They say that when something doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger, I've got to agree with that saying.

This game is about adjusting, you either adapt to it, or leave.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

See? You just agreed with all what I just said. Why in the 1st place do you think it must be heavy armor users the ones with certain roles? Who do you think you are to define that? The game changed? It's not the 1st time this happened, this game changes a lot, and as long as it lives it will continue to change.

I remember very well when venos were the dominant force in all aspects of the gane. The richests farmers were venos, and the most feared pkers were venos. The game changed, and it didn't favor venos anymore. Most people rerolled to new classes. While most were rerolling to sins or bms (the aps craze) I stayed with my class, and discovered there was more to venos than just sending a phoenix to bleed people, and use a few scarabs to finish them off. They say that when something doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger, I've got to agree with that saying.

This game is about adjusting, you either adapt to it, or leave.

I don't agree with you at all. You think that because things change and adapt that the fundementals of the game should be altered as well, which is not the case. Giving one class the ability to do something another class than, along with having other perks means that Class 2 will be used in favor of Class 1 because Class one can't compete.

People have already adapted or left, I'm still here, I've adapted, but that doesn't really make it a justified change. Forcing people to adapt to something that's more broken than what it was supposedly put there to fix is not balanced and is not a good way to go. It may make some people stronger, but everyone under that gear tier suffers tremendously in all aspects. I'm all for spending more money or more time on the game to become better than others, but when a class is able to do things another class is meant to do BETTER while still maintaining its other perks there is something wrong. I'm not the one that defined what HA is supposed to do, that's how it has always been in games. There's a holy trinity, tank, dps, healer. Tanks/off-tanks are the HA classes (Seeker/BM/Barb), DPS are the Arcanes/LA users (Archer, Assassin, Wizard, Psychic, Venomancer*), and Healers are Clerics and Mystics.

*can be all three depending on the situation/setting.

This holy trinity is enforced in most games, and PW is mucking with it. Now, were this game to be like a certain war of factions the second game it wouldn't matter so much, that game is based on shattering the holy trinity and allowing all classes to do everything. However, this is not the case. Given how strong the proc is in unison with proper gear a fun idea would be to add a weapon debuff to mobs in existing or new instances, since without their weapon a Caster would be unable to pull so much without relying on genie or apo like the classes that are meant for it do.

Teehee.

Or you know.

Give it a cooldown. Not like it's that huge of a nerf and it's STILL a massive boost to the classes affected by it.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That's an extreme assumption. Just because people thing HA should be better at pulling/tanking mobs than an Arcane doesn't mean they think it should take insane amounts of damage to kill them. Arcanes are supposed to deal higher damage per hit but get hit harder than Melee, however PWI has twisted this and made it so certain Arcanes are able to take hits like a Melee, and still deal far more damage. Purify Spell enforces this by giving them the power to surpass Melee's mob pulling potential, as the more mobs on them the more it activates, essentially giving them a permanent speed buff.

^ This... ABSOLUTELY this!, I so don't expect to be able to take hits from 20 ppl all with quite decent gear, even when i am r93r, it should NOT be the case for ANY caster, or any other class for that matter, if any one class should be able to do it, it should be a barb, not everyone else, regardless of the money they put into their character. Sure their survivablity SHOULD go up, but not to levels that surpass even barbs.

As for bms, I still wouldnt go r93r with it, even with the fact that its survivablity will undoubtedly go up through the roof, I would sooner put it on my other characters, as I have seen what similair gear does for each of the classes. (Bm is by far the worse, for either surviving, or killing, yes I am sue GOF proc does allow for easier kills, but I am still not going to go after r93r on my bm.) Now don't get me wrong I still love my bm, but for pvp... I am so not going near it for nw, hell I would even level up a caster class and get r93r on it long before I would do it for my bm, and not only just for the purify proc, there is a reason why melee classes are few far and in between in nw, and that purify on weapon makes it oh so more appealing.

Mages of any kind should not be able to out-perform Melee in that aspect unless they're stupidly overgeared in comparison because of the different class rolls. If the caster can tank mobs, hey good on them, but they shouldn't be able to do everything the melee can and be better at it. Like pulling. As it stands the only PvE content left that Mages aren't better at would be bosses, and while I get that it's always been like that, it's also always been that mages packed out far more damage on regular mobs. Back in the days of Gamma and FC, who was it that would draw aggro if the barb wasn't doing his job or the BM wasn't stunning? Wizards. Why? They have much higher damage. This gap in power only increases when you start increasing gear and refines.

There has to be some kind of balance, but as it stands Arcanes have obtained near-supremacy in the game in both PvE and PvP. There are very few things a Melee can actually do better now, and with the addition of NW those matter very little. You know, TT, Nirvana, FC, all those good things. At least in the old days of APS domination an equally gear Mage could very well win if they had the same skill level of the APS user, and that same APS user did not encroach on their PvE mob killing domination. However, thanks to Purify Spell, Arcanes have become better pulls than Melee in commonly run instances while requiring no resources such as apothecary or genies.

Something seems off to me about it, even if we aren't talking about PvP.

hell i agree with the entirety of that post. :P

Azura - Lost City · April 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I don't agree with you at all. You think that because things change and adapt that the fundementals of the game should be altered as well, which is not the case. Giving one class the ability to do something another class than, along with having other perks means that Class 2 will be used in favor of Class 1 because Class one can't compete.

People have already adapted or left, I'm still here, I've adapted, but that doesn't really make it a justified change. Forcing people to adapt to something that's more broken than what it was supposedly put there to fix is not balanced and is not a good way to go. It may make some people stronger, but everyone under that gear tier suffers tremendously in all aspects. I'm all for spending more money or more time on the game to become better than others, but when a class is able to do things another class is meant to do BETTER while still maintaining its other perks there is something wrong. I'm not the one that defined what HA is supposed to do, that's how it has always been in games. There's a holy trinity, tank, dps, healer. Tanks/off-tanks are the HA classes (Seeker/BM/Barb), DPS are the Arcanes/LA users (Archer, Assassin, Wizard, Psychic, Venomancer*), and Healers are Clerics and Mystics.

*can be all three depending on the situation/setting.

This holy trinity is enforced in most games, and PW is mucking with it. Now, were this game to be like a certain war of factions the second game it wouldn't matter so much, that game is based on shattering the holy trinity and allowing all classes to do everything. However, this is not the case. Given how strong the proc is in unison with proper gear a fun idea would be to add a weapon debuff to mobs in existing or new instances, since without their weapon a Caster would be unable to pull so much without relying on genie or apo like the classes that are meant for it do.

Teehee.

Or you know.

Give it a cooldown. Not like it's that huge of a nerf and it's STILL a massive boost to the classes affected by it.

Now you are starting to sound like a member of a strange new religion, which was given absolute knowledge, acording to the new religion, and therefore everyone should stick to its teaching.

However, the truth is that your holy trinity doesn't exist, you just made it up. If most games stick to the same formula that's because most game developers don't want to try new things due to fear to failure, or because they simply don't have enough creativity. Kudos to PW for actually trying to change things a bit.

Finally, I really think you need to stop acting like a toon that just lost its job. Bm's are still needed and wanted in any instance. Bms are still needed and wanted in nw. Bm's are still needed and wanted in TW. Is your problem that mages seem like the superior classes now? Even if they are, there will always be a stronger class, even in the most balanced game.

Deal with it.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Now you are starting to sound like a member of a strange new religion, which was given absolute knowledge, acording to the new religion, and therefore everyone should stick to its teaching.

However, the truth is that your holy trinity doesn't exist, you just made it up. If most games stick to the same formula that's because most game developers don't want to try new things due to fear to failure, or because they simply don't have enough creativity. Kudos to PW for actually trying to change things a bit.

Finally, I really think you need to stop acting like a toon that just lost its job. Bm's are still needed and wanted in any instance. Bms are still needed and wanted in nw. Bm's are still needed and wanted in TW. Is your problem that mages seem like the superior classes now? Even if they are, there will always be a stronger class, even in the most balanced game.

Deal with it.

The Holy Trinity is actually a thing. It's the concept in which games will have three types of archtypes in which all classes will fall into. Tank, Healer, and DPS. Some games have tried to break out of it, but most will enforce this concept. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, different games with different styles will have different ways of playing, but PWI is a Holy Trinity type of game.

PW gets no points for "trying to change things" by introducing more and more gamebreaking features, that's not changing things for the better, that's just them trying to bleed more money out of people by getting them to move on to the next "overpowered" thing. It's far from creative.

Nobody here is acting like they've lost their job. I get by fine with my BM in PvP, NW, and PvE. You seem painfully stuck in your ignorance, and while I'd like to help you out you and most other Arcanes seem to be fighting tooth and nail to remain. So enjoy it, if you can't see how breaking a game farther to balanced it is a bad idea then that's not really my problem. Maybe in a year or two from now when HA gets something and becomes top dog at everything we'll all get the chance to point and laugh at you and every other mage who, when the tables were turned, told people to simply deal with a broken mechanic.

Adroit - Lost City · April 2013

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Maybe in a year or two from now when HA gets something and becomes top dog at everything we'll all get the chance to point and laugh at you and every other mage who, when the tables were turned, told people to simply deal with a broken mechanic.

Sounds vaguely familiar to the aps craze and now.. the big difference being purify isn't broken, but ofc there are a few LA/HA that need something to complain about now that easy mode is over.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Sounds vaguely familiar to the aps craze and now.. the big difference being purify isn't broken, but ofc there are a few LA/HA that need something to complain about now that easy mode is over.

Except that APS wasn't broken either. If Purify Spell isn't broken then there's no way APS was.

At equal refines APS was more than manageable, it could be countered and killed unless you had no skill whatsoever. A +10 weapon would shred through +5 gear, that's a given, but at equal refines? No. Want another example of how APS isn't broken? My R9 +5 could tank R9+10 APS setup daggers. +5. vs +10. Could tank. Yeah, totally broken. The difference between me and those who complained about it is that I know what I"m doing. Yes, I'm HA so I can get away with lower refines, but an arcane in +10? Against +10 daggers? Yeah, they're gonna be able to counter it well enough to fight back. I'm not saying they will every time as that depends on whether or not they know how to play, but the point is that as long as they know how to play they can counteract APS.

You can't counter Purify Spell at equal gear. When they're lower you can dispose of them quickly enough that it won't matter, but at equal end game gear you're just not going to manage that. That is where the difference between Purify Spell and APS lies, genie, apo, and class skills can't effectively counter Purify Spell. It's 100% luck based with no counters other than hoping it doesn't proc.

APS was only easy mode and if you believe otherwise like it seems you do then you're ignorant. Actually, it's amusing how you say that Kni and myself lack experience when it seems that when it comes to the topic of APS fights you're the one with a severe lack of knowledge.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · April 2013

You all sound like little children in a pissing match right now.

APS was overpowered, in PvE if nothing else. It isn't anymore, but it took way the hell too long to get to that point. Purify proc is overpowered. It still is, and the sooner it isn't, the better. Waiting for some new feature that brings x class or group of classes to the top is not the answer.

The "Holy Trinity" of class roles isn't something that's stuck around because people are afraid to try something new. It's something that's stuck around because people have tried other things, and, with the exception of the aforementioned war of factions the second, have completely failed. The Holy Trinity is still around because it works, and people like it. It gives everyone a place, a job to do, and it encourages group play. Granted, PW has lost a lot of this simply by failing to have any PvE content except AEU that really requires any sort of semblance of a proper squad anymore due to everyone completely outgearing everything - though honestly that's another issue, not an excuse.

Having one group (arcanes) be able to perform a role another group is designed for (heavies) isn't necessarily a bad thing. Hybrid classes are a common thing in the genre. The point, however, is supposed to be that a class who is capable of performing multiple roles does not perform as well at either of those roles than the "pure" classes that can only perform one - otherwise, what's the point of having a class that performs worse in every aspect? An arcane right now can pull/tank better than a HA class - no genie or apoth (or skills) needed! - and deal damage better than a HA class. These are the sorts of issues that destroy games.

Whether APS used to be overpowered is entirely irrelevant. I don't care if it used to be overpowered, and neither should you. The point is that purify proc is overpowered right now, and any overpowered mechanic needs a rebalance.

Adroit - Lost City · April 2013

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

An arcane right now can pull/tank better than a HA class

Nope.

Jarkhen - Archosaur · April 2013

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Nope.

Dat kiting.

Also, care to address the rest of the post, or are you just gonna cherry-pick one word?

Eoria - Harshlands · April 2013

Jarkhen - Archosaur wrote: »

Dat kiting.

Kiting =/= tanking. The only AA class you might be able to argue tank better than an HA class is a cleric and that is solely via their heals/buffs/shields. And even then, the typical AA cleric, even if it's like pure vit or whatever, will have a much lower HP pool than an equally geared HA class and thus much easier to straight up one-shot or charm bypass.

Tsyn - Raging Tide · April 2013

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Kiting =/= tanking. The only AA class you might be able to argue tank better than an HA class is a cleric and that is solely via their heals/buffs/shields. And even then, the typical AA cleric, even if it's like pure vit or whatever, will have a much lower HP pool than an equally geared HA class and thus much easier to straight up one-shot or charm bypass.

And yet, due to Purify proc, AA classes no longer need to tank (or at least until Purify has proced). We keep debating the small things, like how AA classes aren't supposed to tank, etc, when we keep missing the real issue.

Purify users can tank without purify up to a certain point. After that point, Purify kicks in and they don't have to tank anymore.

Melee users can tank without purify up to a certain point. After that, they die.

It seems disbalanced that Purify users have more "survivability" despite their lack of tanking ability - even more so than the classes intended to be like rocks.

God help us all if someone ever makes an HA cleric with R9S3 weapon.
HA, Def Levels, Mana Shield, Self Buffs/rudimentary heals/Purify skill + the weapon.

Eoria - Harshlands · April 2013

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

God help us all if someone ever makes an HA cleric with R9S3 weapon.
HA, Def Levels, Mana Shield, Self Buffs/rudimentary heals/Purify skill + the weapon.

It's been done. Go find SmashnHeal.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

It's been done. Go find SmashnHeal.

^ This, he's well known over here on Dreamweaver.

He's just as squishy as us 'true' ha users. (to magic attacks)

As for the purify proc, I don't know how it affects him in nw, and he can indeed tank quite a few things that many people on our server struggle to tank. (pve wise of course, not sure about mass pvp places)

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver · April 2013

To be honest the very best barbs on dreamweaver are still harder to kill than the very best arcanes. I've seen barbs outlast stuff that would smoke an r93 arcane.

As for running Nw flags, the best is the archer- you had better be between them and the flag when they dig it or your likely not going to get a chance to hit them. Between holy path at start, their apo, and their own skills they run so fast they are nearly uncatchable unless you luck out to be in the right spot to intercept. You don't need to tank if nobody catches you.

As for tanking pve- anyclass can sorta do it that is r93 +10 or higher simply cause buffed they have 15-25k life and good base defenses. Purify helps arcanes simply cause except for the veno- arcanes are naturally slow running. archers, barbs ,bms, sins, and seekers all tend to naturally run faster.

When comparing pvp it is useless to consider lesser geared against higher gear when the gulf is really big as it is in r93 and anything less. I geuss a lot of r9 players with awesome sauce josd and refines are rightfully angry that their gear is now outdated. At equal gear purify is fairly balanced.

Also just noticed on the #1 faction of the server or #2 depending on which one of the two your in, archers happen to dominate the token amount per nw as the results are listed in our forum. If purify proc was so op, I'm thinking there would be lots of arcanes there. Instead it is mostly archers in the top followed by a few psy and random op players of various classes. Btw- archers keep insisting they aren't op, yet they earn the most tokens in our factions nw...go figure.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · April 2013

RunningTiger - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To be honest the very best barbs on dreamweaver are still harder to kill than the very best arcanes. I've seen barbs outlast stuff that would smoke an r93 arcane.

As for running Nw flags, the best is the archer- you had better be between them and the flag when they dig it or your likely not going to get a chance to hit them. Between holy path at start, their apo, and their own skills they run so fast they are nearly uncatchable unless you luck out to be in the right spot to intercept. You don't need to tank if nobody catches you.

As for tanking pve- anyclass can sorta do it that is r93 +10 or higher simply cause buffed they have 15-25k life and good base defenses. Purify helps arcanes simply cause except for the veno- arcanes are naturally slow running. archers, barbs ,bms, sins, and seekers all tend to naturally run faster.

When comparing pvp it is useless to consider lesser geared against higher gear when the gulf is really big as it is in r93 and anything less. I geuss a lot of r9 players with awesome sauce josd and refines are rightfully angry that their gear is now outdated. At equal gear purify is fairly balanced.

Also just noticed on the #1 faction of the server or #2 depending on which one of the two your in, archers happen to dominate the token amount per nw as the results are listed in our forum. If purify proc was so op, I'm thinking there would be lots of arcanes there. Instead it is mostly archers in the top followed by a few psy and random op players of various classes. Btw- archers keep insisting they aren't op, yet they earn the most tokens in our factions nw...go figure.

I don't agree with it, yes r93r has better stats, hp, etc than anything lesser, but imho it doesn't just BLOW it away and then some; however, lets just assume for this argument I am about to make... that you and everyone else that has stated this is indeed accurate about that statment. Let's do this instead of removing/changing the purify proc, how about everyone in nw get approiate gear for their level/class with EQUAL refines, and equal weapons with correct and equal refinement, as well as the proc that comes with each r93r weapon per class. (That would indeed just be given/equipped in nw, and be removed once the fights are all over.)

^ That would stop all this qq, and casters would get to keep their 'precious' proc, then we ALL will get to see for sure what is truly overpowered, albeit I am sure people will still have their opinions about certain things, not to mention I am sure this idea will not be well percieved by many people, specifically those who 'paid to win.' (I am not saying there is anything wrong with that, but seriously stop with the mentality that 'I paid more for my gear, I should be pwning you' we work just as hard, if not harder for our own gear, the fact is NO one should be able to solo a 20 vs 1 fight, regardless of the gear of the '1,' as I pointted out somewhere else in this post, the BASE stats of r93r, isnt that far off of r93r, though yes there is absolutely a difference.

Nation wars is, and should be considered a farming instance, just because we didn't pay to win, it does not, and SHOULDN'T make our hard work for our gear just all null and void, the base stats really isnt that far off from what I have seen on pwcalc, it's all the extra add ons, that make r93r quite badass, and hard to deal with for many many people.

PLC - Harshlands · April 2013

Just telling my opinion on this issue from more than 4 years of PW experience.

For me as a really top notch equipped 105 sin with everything >+10, r9/3 weap+12,
96 atk lvl, 2,86 base aps - it is litterary and metaphorically impossible to kill an equally equipped caster who got purify proc on his weapon, unless the caster wants to stay still and be risky.

At least in a 1 vs 1 situation i have witnessed the following:

Most times i attack such a character who got this multi-proc aps triggered it seems to activate like every 4-5 hits, meaning if i deal like 600 dmg per hit which is realistic if the enemy got a hell of pdef and def lvls, the attack wont even damage the enemy for even 25 % of his max hp pool.
So if caster starts to move at this point in time my only option of dealing damage is my knife throw which wont hit for more than 2 k damage.
If the caster is good he will always use this kind of retreat tactic and then hit me when he is at his higher range.
The thing is caster will always have a chance to kill me with 1 hit, even though i have all it takes to be an enduring sin (got r9 recast ring+12, helm and legs sharded with jade soulstones for survival).

Im not complaining, just giving my 5 cents to this topic, i know most arcanes are squishy, but end game versions with this multi proc seem to be the most unstoppable constellation from my point of view.
In terms of survivability an endgame arcane char with multi proc is indeed harder to stop than any other constellation, for it is the status effect immune part of the proc that is unstoppable compared even to endgame barbs, seekers, archers, bms, sins where negative status effects cant be permanently evaded through purification.

My solution to this would be keep the purify, keep the anti stun - but for petes sake remove the speed boost. this way the retreats wont be too dramatical.

u are welcome to agree or disagree, but deal with the message, not the messanger b:victory

Kniraven - Lost City · April 2013

You dolts have all been side tracked by these dipsh!ts' red herring argument.

1.) Casters need increments of 100 magic to increase their dmg modifier. Everyone else needs 150 of their dmg increasing stat.

2.) Casters only need to put 1 point outside their dmg increasing stat every other level. Every other class needs at bare minimum double that amount.

3.) Casters weapons all have significantly higher base damage than the other classes.

4.) Casters can attack from superior range, with archer being the exception.

5.) All casters in the game have a passive continuous buff to amplify their physical defense, this is not true of everyone else.

6.) The reason casters never had weapon procs, was because the procs were needed just so that other classes could compete with them.

7.) Other classes even without interval gear have always relied on APS. We have weaker attacks and need to hit more often in order to kill something. Purify proc makes it so that we must compete in DPH with classes we can not possibly match.

8.) The largest reason for this proc needing to be fixed, is that unless someone can compete in DPH with the caster, their addition to the battlefield helps the caster no matter what side of the fight they are on.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

You dolts have all been side tracked by these dipsh!ts' red herring argument.

1.) Casters need increments of 100 magic to increase their dmg modifier. Everyone else needs 150 of their dmg increasing stat.

2.) Casters only need to put 1 point outside their dmg increasing stat every other level. Every other class needs at bare minimum double that amount.

3.) Casters weapons all have significantly higher base damage than the other classes.

4.) Casters can attack from superior range, with archer being the exception.

5.) All casters in the game have a passive continuous buff to amplify their physical defense, this is not true of everyone else.

6.) The reason casters never had weapon procs, was because the procs were needed just so that other classes could compete with them.

7.) Other classes even without interval gear have always relied on APS. We have weaker attacks and need to hit more often in order to kill something. Purify proc makes it so that we must compete in DPH with classes we can not possibly match.

8.) The largest reason for this proc needing to be fixed, is that unless someone can compete in DPH with the caster, their addition to the battlefield helps the caster no matter what side of the fight they are on.

Agreed with every one of your points, the purify skill on the weapon, is really overpowered, I only meant to do it for 'argument's' sake to get everyone on an even playing field for nw.

That's far from being a dolt, imho, kni. Albeit it was a distraction, but still sometimes you have to 'give' before you 'recieve.'

Blutregen - Lost City · April 2013

just get a wiztard to genie-spark faceroll the purify weapon user

/thread

Zanryu - Dreamweaver · April 2013

Blutregen - Lost City wrote: »

just get a wiztard to genie-spark faceroll the purify weapon user

/thread

>yfw PS procs and removes Spark

Kniraven - Lost City · April 2013

1.) Casters need increments of 100 magic to increase their dmg modifier. Everyone else needs 150 of their dmg increasing stat.

2.) Casters only need to put 1 point outside their dmg increasing stat every other level. Every other class needs at bare minimum double that amount.

3.) Casters weapons all have significantly higher base damage than the other classes.

4.) Casters can attack from superior range, with archer being the exception.

5.) All casters in the game have a passive continuous buff to amplify their physical defense, this is not true of everyone else.

6.) The reason casters never had weapon procs, was because the procs were needed just so that other classes could compete with them.

7.) Other classes even without interval gear have always relied on APS. We have weaker attacks and need to hit more often in order to kill something. Purify proc makes it so that we must compete in DPH with classes we can not possibly match.

8.) The largest reason for this proc needing to be fixed, is that unless someone can compete in DPH with the caster, their addition to the battlefield helps the caster no matter what side of the fight they are on.

Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

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