Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Subtraction - Harshlands

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

...but let's say some random of any class decides they want to help me.

you're a bm, aren't you? using axes? aren't most (all?) axe bm skills aoe?

kill the person helping you and say it's a 1v1 or something instead of complaining about purify; they should be a oneshot in an 'accidental aoe' if they've mediocre damage

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

you're a bm, aren't you? using axes? aren't most (all?) axe bm skills aoe?

kill the person helping you and say it's a 1v1 or something instead of complaining about purify; they should be a oneshot in an 'accidental aoe' if they've mediocre damage

Except when their damage is inconsequential but their gear (G16/R9) is strong enough to survive hits. Makes total sense to tell someone to just kill off another decently geared 100+ while there's an R9r3 caster on you who's able to tank both your hits. Interedasting. Interedasting.

Kniraven - Lost City

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

you're a bm, aren't you? using axes? aren't most (all?) axe bm skills aoe?

kill the person helping you and say it's a 1v1 or something instead of complaining about purify; they should be a oneshot in an 'accidental aoe' if they've mediocre damage

.... You're an idiot.
The issue is that lesser geared players benefit the end game arcane no matter who they attack or who's side they are on.
And as stated, and clearly unread, it is primarily a problem in large numbers. I'm not just talking about having a 1 vs 1 then an interloper shows up.

If you can't grasp that anyone with low damage assists an arcane no matter who they attack and what side they're on, and that this is a broken mechanic, then idk what to tell you. Clearly you're dumb.


At anyone saying that including lesser geared players in the discussion is unfair, that is a ridiculous strawman, because they are exactly WHY it is broken.

There will always be people weaker and stronger, and every person counts. Only now, additionally enemies assist R9 arcanes.

At Azura & Adroit, I can give a great example from today. I was fighting MECHserac at west. 1v1 an easy kill for me. Lenole dropped down to assist him. Lenole is a lesser geared player I can kill in 1 to at most 3 attacks. Intelligently she would run and stay as far away from me as possible Allowing MECH to DD on me while I chased her. I was still surviving, stunning MECH then trying to chase her *** down. Next a Click archer came and.started DDing on MECH. The archer was about as well geared as Lenole, doing **** damage but preventing me from stunning or getting an amp cimbo off by continuously purifying MECH while both Lenole and MECH dd'd on me.

I eventually lost, and I really shouldn't have. Both my team mate and MECHs provided him an advantage. Honestly, it's bullsh!t and a solution should be found.

I still support Asterelle's cooldown suggestion

Unholly - Lothranis

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Oh lawdy dat sounds so cray-zay.


How come you don't log on anymore? How am I supposed to fight you when I'm done refining if you don't log on!

b:surrender Been having tooo much fun playing cleric and bm, should be on tonight Abs be needing help with a pve tw b:shocked
Hope you have been bullying all the new sins to the server, so many have poped up b:sad

---

purify proc(PS) = more fun pk with less skilled casters.

A good caster did just fine without PS.

As stated NW seems to be the biggest problem people have with PS, but then flag caping is somewhat broken what with apoths and 15m/s. Still more people should = better chance of killing flag carryer(logic?).

@People asking for this thread to be closed.... if you dont like reading it then dont click on it? (ikr... genius). Only reason i can see why people would want this closed is because they are worryed PS will be removed. Dont worry, it wont b:cute. Give them a year maybe two of QQ about it and the next $2k gear will make it obselte.

Let people vent some steam about it here, just like people did with APS.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Unholly - Lothranis wrote: »

b:surrender Been having tooo much fun playing cleric and bm, should be on tonight Abs be needing help with a pve tw b:shocked
Hope you have been bullying all the new sins to the server, so many have poped up b:sad

---

purify proc(PS) = more fun pk with less skilled casters.

A good caster did just fine without PS.

As stated NW seems to be the biggest problem people have with PS, but then flag caping is somewhat broken what with apoths and 15m/s. Still more people should = better chance of killing flag carryer(logic?).

@People asking for this thread to be closed.... if you dont like reading it then dont click on it? (ikr... genius). Only reason i can see why people would want this closed is because they are worryed PS will be removed. Dont worry, it wont b:cute. Give them a year maybe two of QQ about it and the next $2k gear will make it obselte.

Let people vent some steam about it here, just like people did with APS.

Actually I already got one to hate my guts, it took all of an hour of pking ahahahaha

Actually I've made quite a few people dislike me already, PvP is gonna be funnnnnn :P

Need to work on dem refines. +6 is hard to tank all these +12 weapons in.

Unholly - Lothranis

Subtraction - Harshlands wrote: »

you're a bm, aren't you? using axes? aren't most (all?) axe bm skills aoe?

kill the person helping you and say it's a 1v1 or something instead of complaining about purify; they should be a oneshot in an 'accidental aoe' if they've mediocre damage

1. Erm.... 7/10 of the pwi classes are ranged(mainly ranged) and if they are squishy will not be getting close enough to a BMs aoes.
2. If its in NW you cant kill the person helping you...
3. The point still stands that why should more help = less chance of wining? im sorry but what?
4. Tell them its a 1v1? yes because.. you really want to be typing when fighting a class with PS.

Subtraction - Harshlands

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

.... You're an idiot.
The issue is that lesser geared players benefit the end game arcane no matter who they attack or who's side they are on.
And as stated, and clearly unread, it is primarily a problem in large numbers. I'm not just talking about having a 1 vs 1 then an interloper shows up.

If you can't grasp that anyone with low damage assists an arcane no matter who they attack and what side they're on, and that this is a broken mechanic, then idk what to tell you. Clearly you're dumb.


At anyone saying that including lesser geared players in the discussion is unfair, that is a ridiculous strawman, because they are exactly WHY it is broken.

There will always be people weaker and stronger, and every person counts. Only now, additionally enemies assist R9 arcanes.

please, leave out the insults.

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

I can fight Hexstar, IKUTMYSELF, Kreize, MECHserac, S_Laura_S etc at west gate or silver pool, but let's say some random of any class decides they want to help me. They have mediocre damage, and all they do is purify my opponent allowing them to kite and survive amp combos effectively wasting my genie and chi.

maybe i should have quoted your entire paragraph, but you said that you can fight these people. because you said 'my opponent' i assumed you meant in a 1v1 scenario, which is what i am talking about.

yes, the 'lesser geared' player is 'helping' the person they are attacking, but in this scenario it can be easily remedied. i never stated that the 'mediocre geared' player is not helping the person you are both attacking, nor do i believe i even implied it; please do not put words in my mouth.

as far as purify being a 'broken mechanic', i never said anything about this either, but i do know, and i'm sure this has been said countless times already in this thread and others, but people also complained about the assassin's stealth ability as well as the ability to have insane pvp and pve damage through use of stacking -int gear. the 'balance of power', so to say, as been shifted.

Unholly - Lothranis

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually I already got one to hate my guts, it took all of an hour of pking ahahahaha

Actually I've made quite a few people dislike me already, PvP is gonna be funnnnnn :P

Need to work on dem refines. +6 is hard to tank all these +12 weapons in.

Ah well if you dont make enemies your a cowerd or worse

hm if they are from abs i think i can guess who it is b:chuckle

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Unholly - Lothranis wrote: »

Ah well if you dont make enemies your a cowerd or worse

hm if they are from abs i think i can guess who it is b:chuckle

Haha yeah, he was raging in my pms the other day.

Also, your faction be focus firing me hahahaha. We're doing group PvP atm, I was Elah and Dikke's first target, then Reno and some Alizza chick and someone else all went on me. Man, I need some apo if I'm gonna be having to get hit by all these +12 weapons b:laugh come protect me

Unholly - Lothranis

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Haha yeah, he was raging in my pms the other day.

Also, your faction be focus firing me hahahaha. We're doing group PvP atm, I was Elah and Dikke's first target, then Reno and some Alizza chick and someone else all went on me. Man, I need some apo if I'm gonna be having to get hit by all these +12 weapons b:laugh come protect me

f:flower group pk, you shall see me there! who is dominating pk abs or regin/requ (what ever they go by now)

and that is a hell of a lot of out gear right there b:shocked

b:cute WTS 700x Pangu essance b:cute

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Unholly - Lothranis wrote: »

f:flower group pk, you shall see me there! who is dominating pk abs or regin/requ (what ever they go by now)

and that is a hell of a lot of out gear right there b:shocked

b:cute WTS 700x Pangu essance b:cute

I'd say it's kinda even, Absolve is able to field more people so they "dominate" more but when it's even the fights seem even enough, even though they have more full +10/12s than we do b:chuckle

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

The idea that just because there are more attacking that it makes it easier on the arcane is not really a factor. The same goes for a barbs skill bestial rage. he would highly prefer lots of weak attacks going on at the same time as a stronger character is hitting him. Purify works exactly the same way.

It wouldn't be feasible to change purify to work anyway else as
1. equal gear 1vs1 is balanced
2. pve would be greatly changed



I'd suggest you give it a couple of more months when there are even more end game geared out there and I think you will see that arcanes don't necessarily rule. Sin, Archers, Seekers, barbs, and even bm have function and are effective in pvp as well as pve. All of them at equal gear can kill any arcane 1v1.


If you are specifically havening issue against arcanes I would suggest going all sapphire gems with mag def orns. Consider that currently most arcanes are doing the same only with all physical orns. (that's half of why sins and bms are not doing as much dmg to them) And of course go all josd if you have a couple thousand worth of coin laying around.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Gonna mention this again, since I think it's the source of complaints, we've not really made any progress, and some people are to the point of not even contributing anymore.

Decus - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I think it stands to reason that if the flag was meant to prevent you from HP'ing, thus inhibiting your ability to kite, it ought to do so.

Disable speeds skills (and the speed from the proc) with the flag in hand. Let people use apo/genie, and nothing else. That way, anyone can do it and the proc still has a purpose, to purify.

Kniraven - Lost City

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The idea that just because there are more attacking that it makes it easier on the arcane is not really a factor. The same goes for a barbs skill bestial rage. he would highly prefer lots of weak attacks going on at the same time as a stronger character is hitting him. Purify works exactly the same way.

It wouldn't be feasible to change purify to work anyway else as
1. equal gear 1vs1 is balanced
2. pve would be greatly changed



I'd suggest you give it a couple of more months when there are even more end game geared out there and I think you will see that arcanes don't necessarily rule. Sin, Archers, Seekers, barbs, and even bm have function and are effective in pvp as well as pve. All of them at equal gear can kill any arcane 1v1.


If you are specifically havening issue against arcanes I would suggest going all sapphire gems with mag def orns. Consider that currently most arcanes are doing the same only with all physical orns. (that's half of why sins and bms are not doing as much dmg to them) And of course go all josd if you have a couple thousand worth of coin laying around.

1.) Do you have any idea how less common 1v1s are on a PvP server? Everyone is white name all of the time.

2.) Saphire gems would give me less survivability than vit stones against an arcane; the increase wouldn't warrant their use with my gear and ornaments, butt that is completely irrelevant regardless, the fact stands that increasing my enemy's opposition benefits them, as does increasing my own. It's an SOL situation that is broken and needs a solution. I'm not saying purify should be removed, but a fix does need to be implemented.

3.) You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and are trying to supplement the arguments of others... An arcane wouldn't use vit stones due to less hp per vit, every single arcane class has a natural buff that amplifies their pdef and they get more out of it by sharding pdef. Maybe it is you who should level up and learn a bit.

4.) Pretty much all of your "arguments" were off topic and unrelated.

Unholly - Lothranis

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The idea that just because there are more attacking that it makes it easier on the arcane is not really a factor. The same goes for a barbs skill bestial rage. he would highly prefer lots of weak attacks going on at the same time as a stronger character is hitting him. Purify works exactly the same way.

no... it really does not
1. Bestial rage is a skill and so cant be activated during a seal/stun (not the same as PS)
2. Bestial rage has a CD, meaning a barb can not spam it and always be benefiting from multiple attackers. (not the same as PS)
3. Bestial rage does not break CC, it only gains the barb chi, so allowing them to tank for longer. Which for a class built to tank and take hits kind of makes sense. barbs generally being dependent on support to clear the area of enemies that are CCing the barb.
4. Chi gained by Bestial rage can only be used provided that the barb is not seal/stunned

It wouldn't be feasible to change purify to work anyway else as
1. equal gear 1vs1 is balanced
2. pve would be greatly changed

i refer you to asterelle's idea on putting a CD on the proc, it would not affect these these 2 fields that much. Also if you are relying on PS for pve... well b:surrender

Kniraven - Lost City

Unholly - Lothranis wrote: »

no... it really does not
1. Bestial rage is a skill and so cant be activated during a seal/stun (not the same as PS)
2. Bestial rage has a CD, meaning a barb can not spam it and always be benefiting from multiple attackers. (not the same as PS)
3. Bestial rage does not break CC, it only gains the barb chi, so allowing them to tank for longer. Which for a class built to tank and take hits kind of makes sense. barbs generally being dependent on support to clear the area of enemies that are CCing the barb.
4. Chi gained by Bestial rage can only be used provided that the barb is not seal/stunned



i refer you to asterelle's idea on putting a CD on the proc, it would not affect these these 2 fields that much. Also if you are relying on PS for pve... well b:surrender

+1
Quoted for Truth

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Nobody ever quotes Zan for truth. Zan sad. Zan cry. Holly hug Zan.

Pytharia - Lost City

Zanryu - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nobody ever quotes Zan for truth.

qft

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »

qft

I.. I don't know if I should be happy or not.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

as to the pve part.

Yes I solo fc on my wizard instead of my r9 sin. Purify being nerfed would make it where again aps toons owned fc selling business once again. As it is I solo fc in almost the same time as my sin.

Obviously you do not solo pv

Obviously you do not pull all the fire and metal mobs and kill them at once in ws? Purify greatly aids here-where mp def of an arcane makes them suitable to pull.

If public quest 3 were not broken- purify makes doing the mobs a snap.

The anti stun part of purify helps in delta for duo/ trio

Farming lunar, purify run speed is an awesome proc.


So there is more to the proc usefulness than pve

Btw there happens to be a bm on my server that is all sapphire shards and he is harder to kill than all vit stoned bms for me. (im full r93 +11 frostborne gems with secondary lnw tome) Sharding and using all mag orns does make it so that a bm can barely be hurt by magic.

The main argument is about it's effect in Nw and frankly on my server there are enough op other classes that you rarely see purify arcanes grabbing the flag. Archers, bm, and barbs grab it most often. or noobs that are of no account.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

as to the pve part.

Yes I solo fc on my wizard instead of my r9 sin. Purify being nerfed would make it where again aps toons owned fc selling business once again. As it is I solo fc in almost the same time as my sin.

Obviously you do not solo pv

Obviously you do not pull all the fire and metal mobs and kill them at once in ws? Purify greatly aids here-where mp def of an arcane makes them suitable to pull.

If public quest 3 were not broken- purify makes doing the mobs a snap.

The anti stun part of purify helps in delta for duo/ trio

Farming lunar, purify run speed is an awesome proc.


So there is more to the proc usefulness than pve

Btw there happens to be a bm on my server that is all sapphire shards and he is harder to kill than all vit stoned bms for me. (im full r93 +11 frostborne gems with secondary lnw tome) Sharding and using all mag orns does make it so that a bm can barely be hurt by magic.

So... what I'm reading is you want to be able to do the things that are usually reserved for HA. But. On a character that has far superior AoE damage output. Yeah, okay. That seems fair. I mean why not give an Arcane class our defense, our speed, and our ability to pull large amounts of mobs at one time just because... well, that's just it. There's no reason for them to do the things HA users can do.

No.. no, wait, actually it seems as if you want to out-perform HA users for no cost. I get that casters are butthurt about the glory days of APS, but even then it only out-performed in PvE. Purify Spell allows Casters to dominate more than just PvE content, it comes into play in PvP as well. It's a broken proc, and anyone that thinks otherwise is blind.

Also, that BM is plain stupid. Sharding mag def leaves him open to the physical side of things, which makes him a far easier target for Archers, Sins, opposing BMs, and Barbs. More power to him for being a unique little snowflake, but that's just dumb.

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

The idea that those things were reserved for only heavy armor users is exactly whats wrong with the game and speaks to the mentality of the days when barb, bms, and sins ruled pve. It's still twice as hard for an arcane to even get a random squad for bh other than delta. It will take the game a while still to heal from the days of sins and bm's ruling pve.


Well, sure gear up to be defensive against physical dmg, but then don't complain when magic dmg hurts u a lot.

Jarkhen - Archosaur

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Obviously you do not solo pv

Obviously you do not pull all the fire and metal mobs and kill them at once in ws? Purify greatly aids here-where mp def of an arcane makes them suitable to pull.

[...]

The anti stun part of purify helps in delta for duo/ trio

Farming lunar, purify run speed is an awesome proc.

I do, and have done, all of the above on my archer, with +5 refined armor. You are a wizard, which, last I checked, gave you more magic defense and more physical defense than I have (look at your self-buffed defenses next time you can: I have 5.5k pdef and 6.9k mdef). I don't have Purify proc. It's certainly not necessary to do any of these things. If I can do pulls in lunar and warsong, duo delta, and solo pv (3-4 runs in 15 mins), you certainly can as well, without a brokenly OP proc that makes you virtually invincible in PvE.

And if you're still somehow incapable of doing any of the above without Purify... well, I'm terribly sorry that you're not able to just sprint through all of the PvE content in this game solo (or duo) without even trying b:surrender

Unholly - Lothranis

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

as to the pve part.

Yes I solo fc on my wizard instead of my r9 sin. Purify being nerfed would make it where again aps toons owned fc selling business once again. As it is I solo fc in almost the same time as my sin.

Obviously you do not solo pv

Obviously you do not pull all the fire and metal mobs and kill them at once in ws? Purify greatly aids here-where mp def of an arcane makes them suitable to pull.

If public quest 3 were not broken- purify makes doing the mobs a snap.

The anti stun part of purify helps in delta for duo/ trio

Farming lunar, purify run speed is an awesome proc.


So there is more to the proc usefulness than pve

Btw there happens to be a bm on my server that is all sapphire shards and he is harder to kill than all vit stoned bms for me. (im full r93 +11 frostborne gems with secondary lnw tome) Sharding and using all mag orns does make it so that a bm can barely be hurt by magic.

b:surrender pretty sure r9s were doing all these things before r9rr came out.... removal of PS would not make these feats impossible... and if it was removed and you could not do the above things without PS then you really need to rerole and learn to play your char. b:cute

sapphire shards = more mdef = more serviceability vs casters yes but i promise you the 4k~ hp (5-6k bufffed) from vit makes a big difference when a bm is fighting a phys dd too (admittedly sage bm view point b:cry wants demon bell) archers shread me to bits
anyway zan at +6 hp shard is more tanky from what i have seen than our servers full +10 sapphire bm

All of the things you mentioned i have done on my assassin *shurgs* admittedly not the same but i did not have PS on my weap.
heck a wiz(even without PS) would be easier to solo pv than my sin.
if you cant even pve without PS i can see why you dont want to lose it in pvp.... b:shocked

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

It is not really the point of being able to do it or not, its the point of doing it with anywhere near the ability of a sin or bm. With the exception of delta and maybe aeu it's pretty rare for any wc squad to be asking for a caster arcane for any part of gameplay. That's the facts of how it is. Purify may someday change that and that is a very good thing as 5 of the ten classes happen to be casters.

Decus - Dreamweaver

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver wrote: »

The idea that those things were reserved for only heavy armor users is exactly whats wrong with the game and speaks to the mentality of the days when barb, bms, and sins ruled pve. It's still twice as hard for an arcane to even get a random squad for bh other than delta. It will take the game a while still to heal from the days of sins and bm's ruling pve.

Right, so classes having strengths and weaknesses is a bad thing? You have no business playing an MMO. Go back to playing any single player Bethesda RPG. It's not as if you cannot do any of those things without purify. Sins/BMs stopped ruling PvE when Caster Nirvana came out. Stop whining.

LoraTab - Dreamweaver

LOl caster nirvana is totally a non issue in the world of pve and only was a viable farming instance for a short time the glitch was in effect and only during 2x.

Fact remains- bm's and sins get an invite before a caster for virtually any pve in the game besides delta nd aeu- oh and caster nirvana lol

Decus - Dreamweaver

LoraTab - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Fact remains- bm's and sins get an invite before a caster for virtually any pve in the game besides delta nd aeu- oh and caster nirvana lol

It sounds like you need a better faction, not a weapon proc. Also, nice job not addressing any other point.

LoraTab - Dreamweaver

exactly and yet a sin/bm does not need a "faction" in order to actually get an invite to pve-- so how balanced is that?

Decus - Dreamweaver

LoraTab - Dreamweaver wrote: »

exactly and yet a sin/bm does not need a "faction" in order to actually get an invite to pve-- so how balanced is that?

So you have an issue with the mentality of the playerbase? Am I correct in making that conclusion? BMs have HF and great kill speed. Sins have an admittedly weaker amp and unsurpassed kill speed. Those are benefits of the class. Deal with it. In PvP, I'd rather be a 105 wiz in endgame gear than an equally-geared sin/BM. Why? Those are the strengths of that class.

As I said, and someone else said, you can do things without purify. It's not a necessity. There should be discrepancies in class abilities. That's the way it is. Otherwise, every class would have all CCs, all heals, all buffs, and all skills. Remove that diversity, and you remove the point of squad gameplay. I'll say it again: go play a single-player RPG.