Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?

Zsw - Dreamweaver · March 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

If 10 people join today, and 8 of them quit because they couldn't find anyone to quest with/talk to etc, while 2 of them swipe their credit card to hyper, then we gain 2 players.

If 10 people join today, and only 1 of them quit becasue they just plain don't like it. The other 7 didn't quit because they have people to talk to, then maybe 4 people will swipe their credit card at level 75. Since some people won't put money into a supposed to be f2p game they aren't sure they will like at endgame since they didn't like starter game. Since 9 stayed instead of only 2, you also increase the likelihood that one of them will bring their friend into the game. Impressing people at the start of the game is a very important aspect of gaming, and whether or not a game impresses someone at the start has a direct correlation to whether they continue to play.

That's all games too. That's why video game companies do their best to make the intros captivating in single player games as well.

Your assumption is only valid if the number of people that do not hyper is greater than the number of people that do hyper. However, if that is true, then we would not have a problem with people who cannot find anyone to quest with/talk with. The 8 people can talk to the 7 others, it's the 2 that hypered that has no one to talk to.

Therefore, it is only proper to assume that the number of people that do hyper is greater than the number of people that do not hyper. As a result, there is no reason for 8 of them to quit, since there are plenty of people to talk to end game.

ovenusarmanio · March 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Your assumption is only valid if the number of people that do not hyper is greater than the number of people that do hyper. However, if that is true, then we would not have a problem with people who cannot find anyone to quest with/talk with. The 8 people can talk to the 7 others, it's the 2 that hypered that has no one to talk to.

Therefore, it is only proper to assume that the number of people that do hyper is greater than the number of people that do not hyper. As a result, there is no reason for 8 of them to quit, since there are plenty of people to talk to end game.

What? The 2 people who hypered reach end game faster, and end game is where people have people to talk to. The low level stuff is deserted, so the people who do not hyper would not have anyone to talk to. Hence the quitting. I've been through it when I rerolled on a different server with no cash invested, and no high level main to help fund my character. The starter content and mid level content is a ghost town. Thats what the new people are greeted with. You don't see these new people because they never get to world chat, faction, etc level. They leave.

Mizuryu - Harshlands · March 2013

I mean really, there's no point in removing it after all these years, it's not like there is a new flock of players coming in.

Removing it now will just create another giant, unnecessary gap between players again.

Liveena - Heavens Tear · March 2013

I agree that putting a level limit in FCC/FF will make more new player/alt to do lower BH again. I have several alt at lvl 30, 40, and 70, and during the past month its hard to get a decent BH squad without a high lvl (100+) helping.

I know someone who fcc all the way to lvl 100, I can say he play his class well, but some problem arises when he ask for an officer position in faction. Then we tested him in term of class and knowledge, it turns out he didn't know about lvl 79 skills, how to do OHT cultivation, certain world map boss locations, and heck he even doesn't know how to feed his genie.

So my point is, being lvl 100 is nothing unless you know your class well and part of the game mechanics.

I strongly supported lvl restriction for FF, at least in my opinion, this will stop lower lvl begging me to do FCC for them so they can have heads b:angry

Eoria - Harshlands · March 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

The starter content and mid level content is a ghost town.

Because there is none. Or at least nothing relevant anyway.

/trollolololol.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

No -- 456 -- 35.46%

These people... I have NOTHING nice to say about them. Their way is the death of PWI, period. They are too selfish and ignorant to even see what they are doing to the game if FC powerleveling remains as was. Perspective and opinion have nothing to do with this issue. They are the unevolved of humanity...

There is absolutely no one in their right mind that gives a **** about PWI that can support the option of actually keeping fc powerleveling at all. The only 2 options that make sense if PWI is to have an actual future... are level cap fc or just get rid of hypering in fc all together...
b:bye

This character NEVER EVEN ONCE stepped foot inside fc except to actually do quests... NOT ONCE.

agree 120%

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

People keep saying that disabling hyper for low levels will bring in more players. However, if 10 people join today, regardless of whether 9 of them use hypers or none of them use hypers, still only 10 people joined the game today...

Sure, maybe if no one hypered, half of them might call their friends to join. But even if they hypered, half of them still have a equal chance of calling their friends to join.

Sure, if maybe no one hypered, only half of them will end up quitting. But even if they hypered, still only half of them might end up quitting.

At level 100, there is NW, TW, Lunar, Warsong, Competitive PvP, Competitive daily events, and so on. Mid-game is really weakly supported with nothing more than grind quests and BH. There is no way you are being competitive in anything with all the r9rr running around that makes regular r9 +12 look like a joke.

Does it matter if your at mid lvl and trying to join competitive events or pvp? no, what matters is that if anyone on this forum thinks that pwi is going to be giving their precious powerlvling back the way it was then they must be sick in the head or have been blindsided. if its not bout them gettin profit from something that was exploited to begin with then it'll be bout how they'll be whiny babies on something that was taken away from them. So whats it going to be Pwi players, cause the game to go completely dead or somehow fix the powerlvling as a whole by putting a lvl cap on FF or hypers for good. Plus to all you powerlvlers and those that use powerlvling for profit than its more than time you start to learn bout the real content of this game stead of crying like a bunch of whiny babies that needs their parents comfort. if you dont like it on how pw put a cap on FF or hypers then heres what ive got to say. go do what we as veterans from 3-4yrs ago did. GO DO GRINDING, ZHENING OR QUESTING. its not that hard to do quests and lvl up like we used to. plus i think someone mentioned on here that it would take bout 1 month if you were on here for a couple hrs daily to do quests or bhs or w/e. theres more to pwi than just FCC. ya could spend all day doing public quest if you have a good squad for it.

Zsw - Dreamweaver · March 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

What? The 2 people who hypered reach end game faster, and end game is where people have people to talk to. The low level stuff is deserted, so the people who do not hyper would not have anyone to talk to. Hence the quitting. I've been through it when I rerolled on a different server with no cash invested, and no high level main to help fund my character. The starter content and mid level content is a ghost town.

How can it be deserted if the ratio of people who do not hyper to the people who do hyper is 4:1? It takes time to reach end game with hyper still. They aren't going to be level 100 instantly. Based on that ratio, as the number of days increase, there are going to be more people that just started on the game and is going through low level content compared to the number of people who are just reaching level 100. This is however, assuming that we get a constant supply of new players daily.

If we assume that we no longer gain a steady supply of new players, then I could see where you are coming from.

ovenusarmanio · March 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How can it be deserted if the ratio of people who do not hyper to the people who do hyper is 4:1? It takes time to reach end game with hyper still. They aren't going to be level 100 instantly. Based on that ratio, as the number of days increase, there are going to be more people that just started on the game and is going through low level content compared to the number of people who are just reaching level 100. This is however, assuming that we get a constant supply of new players daily.

If we assume that we no longer gain a steady supply of new players, then I could see where you are coming from.

That's the new players, this game is dominated by older players. The new players who are just trying this game out, and want to join an mmo to play with other people, will quit if they see the gaming area is dead or spend money to join the endgame. There are a few that are willing to stick it out, but the majority of people who pick a f2p mmo probably want to play with other people for free.

And I think it's pretty obvious that the new players have decreased drastically since this game started. And the ones who are coming here, are being turned away with a deserted low level area and a steep distance between them and endgame.

GingerSprite - Sanctuary · March 2013

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

That's the new players, this game is dominated by older players. The new players who are just trying this game out, and want to join an mmo to play with other people, will quit if they see the gaming area is dead or spend money to join the endgame. There are a few that are willing to stick it out, but the majority of people who pick a f2p mmo probably want to play with other people for free.

And I think it's pretty obvious that the new players have decreased drastically since this game started. And the ones who are coming here, are being turned away with a deserted low level area and a steep distance between them and endgame.

+1
When I started, it was two weeks before I saw one person advertising a faction recruiting players under level 90.

I did all of my quests, I managed, and got along all alone because there was no one else to play with.
Eventually, I did find a faction recruiting, and managed to get a little help, but even then, it was minimal. Everyone was doing high level things and not helping the lower members at all.

Apostasy - Raging Tide · March 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

People keep saying that disabling hyper for low levels will bring in more players.

This is the case.

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

However, if 10 people join today, regardless of whether 9 of them use hypers or none of them use hypers, still only 10 people joined the game today...

And in this statement you are very blind. Yes, only 10 joined today regardless... but 10 will have joined a game without hypers if fc is hyper disabled... this would mean actually meeting people in the low end areas... veteran players and their alts would likely be some of the people they would meet... new players would see this game is not dead then, and would see this as a game that has something to offer based on that. It is kind of like the stock market and economy... confidence in a stock and in a country's currency is what makes a stock or currency stronger. those 10 people, would likely stick around, and would add to the confidence of the next 10...

Those same 10 people joining the game today with fc hypering available... they walk into a world which is already devoid of all life in the low end cities... their confidence is already gone... sure 9 might hyper (and somehow i doubt that many would bother spending real money on a game that looks dead on entrance), but *poof* they have practically vanished, and the next 10 will walk into a dead game... are you really so blind?

Or as a sin yourself, able to sell heads all day making 10's of mil in a few hours... are you really so blind to notice that all your hard work and money made is completely worthless as this game dies because of what you are doing?

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sure, maybe if no one hypered, half of them might call their friends to join. But even if they hypered, half of them still have a equal chance of calling their friends to join.

(see above)

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Sure, if maybe no one hypered, only half of them will end up quitting. But even if they hypered, still only half of them might end up quitting.

(again, see above)

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

At level 100, there is NW, TW, Lunar, Warsong, Competitive PvP, Competitive daily events, and so on. Mid-game is really weakly supported with nothing more than grind quests and BH. There is no way you are being competitive in anything with all the r9rr running around that makes regular r9 +12 look like a joke.

You are really going to bring into this r9rr or r9+ players into this? Are you in a TW faction? I mean really in a TW faction at all?... One of the number one problems top TW factions are facing is that the "up and coming" player base is at a dead stand still... Im willing to bet my left and right one on the fact that the problem is found in every beginner area on up to players at the legitimate level of squading fc for their quests... A game that appears dead to new players will continue to appear dead, and not just due to appearances... It is because the game is dying... I would even go as far as to say that we have had more people actually leaving the game rather than joining the game in the last 6+ months or so... and nation wars is most certainly not the reason why...

Crixxix - Raging Tide · March 2013

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

No -- 456 -- 35.46%

These people... I have NOTHING nice to say about them. Their way is the death of PWI, period. They are too selfish and ignorant to even see what they are doing to the game if FC powerleveling remains as was. Perspective and opinion have nothing to do with this issue. They are the unevolved of humanity...

There is absolutely no one in their right mind that gives a **** about PWI that can support the option of actually keeping fc powerleveling at all. The only 2 options that make sense if PWI is to have an actual future... are level cap fc or just get rid of hypering in fc all together...
b:bye

This character NEVER EVEN ONCE stepped foot inside fc except to actually do quests... NOT ONCE.

Hey man,

While I can't say I like seeing the anger in your post, I can say that I both agree and disagree. I never did FC until I started Crixxix, only so I could get back to the point in the game that I was at before. I ran fc in squads, and a lot of it, but you can't tell me that you can tell the difference. I'm a damn good barb, and not afraid to say I ran FC. To me, it comes down to a person's mindset and mentality level. You can't fix stupid, and taking away FC won't fix that. Once someone is 90, and is still a nab, nothing will fix that, except perhaps r9 gear, which still means that their AGNS (All Gear, No Skill).

To be honest, I think that all these threads on the hyper issue need to be outright deleted, because I'm sick of seeing all the flaming, QQ, trolling, arguing, and fighting. I think the MODs should have removed half of these posts, and banned some people from forums, or report them if they can't. Enough is enough. It was a bug, plain and simple, and the decision to reinstate it as was has been made.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

How can it be deserted if the ratio of people who do not hyper to the people who do hyper is 4:1? It takes time to reach end game with hyper still. They aren't going to be level 100 instantly. Based on that ratio, as the number of days increase, there are going to be more people that just started on the game and is going through low level content compared to the number of people who are just reaching level 100. This is however, assuming that we get a constant supply of new players daily.

If we assume that we no longer gain a steady supply of new players, then I could see where you are coming from.

the word has gotten around to ppl who could of been potential new players that they heard it from your older players that were here since the dawn of pw have told them that pw is nothing more than a game that is after money from players and how the game itself is dying from all this powerlvling. sure some will say from inside the game that if you can find a helpful, family friendly faction that you can survive. that is not true anymore. players want something to be challenging as well as exciting and fun. its not fun when high lvls have to be so pushy and have to pressure players to get this and this and that the moment they start out.

Pwi is not much of a game anymore its a job to the vast majority of powerlvlers who only want a new players in game or real money to make a profit off their clueless and ignorance. If players want to do a game for fun, then it should be fun without having some high lvl run them through their fbs, bhs, boss kills and quests. its even worse when high lvls expect newbies to have certain gear at certain lvl when they just simply cant do it. Exploring the low to midgame content is what makes pwi fun stead of rushing to the end to be told that its suppose to be the beginning when in reality the end is the end and not the beginning.

If i was to read a book from page 1 and then skipped all those chapters just to see how it ends. would that be anywhere near exciting? no it wouldnt cause the last page of the book is the end. how can the last page of a book be the beginning when the adventure itself has ended. the excitement in an adventure is not in the last page but by reading it from the start and going through it just it would be here on pwi. the adventure starts at lvl 1 and ends at 100-105. so no one can convince me otherwise bout how the end is the beginning of the fun part when they are just lying to themselves on the realistic side of it.

Apostasy - Raging Tide · March 2013

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hey man,

While I can't say I like seeing the anger in your post, I can say that I both agree and disagree. I never did FC until I started Crixxix, only so I could get back to the point in the game that I was at before. I ran fc in squads, and a lot of it, but you can't tell me that you can tell the difference. I'm a damn good barb, and not afraid to say I ran FC. To me, it comes down to a person's mindset and mentality level. You can't fix stupid, and taking away FC won't fix that. Once someone is 90, and is still a nab, nothing will fix that, except perhaps r9 gear, which still means that their AGNS (All Gear, No Skill).

To be honest, I think that all these threads on the hyper issue need to be outright deleted, because I'm sick of seeing all the flaming, QQ, trolling, arguing, and fighting. I think the MODs should have removed half of these posts, and banned some people from forums, or report them if they can't. Enough is enough. It was a bug, plain and simple, and the decision to reinstate it as was has been made.

Read the post just before yours i wrote... I said nothing about "knowing ones class"... I used fc to level my cleric from 81-85 and my barb from 76-85... but reallistically, for the future of PWI... Hypers need to be killed in fc... or level capped...

Rekabu - Archosaur · March 2013

b:laugh nice big long opinion fight b:surprised

Apostasy - Raging Tide · March 2013

Rekabu - Archosaur wrote: »

b:laugh nice big long opinion fight b:surprised

Has nothing to do with opinions. So be gone troll b:bye

MageMERC - Harshlands · March 2013

I recently made an archer which is now 96 - levelling is a real pain now. During 7x levelling wasn't so bad - the bh's but more importantly the actual QUESTS were worth it and gave great xp for the effort - its not rocket science.

I think either let hypers work or don't, but level restriction is pointless. A much better option would be to change the xp/sp rewards for normal quests, high level mobs for grinding and changing the whole wraith attack mechanic as Ive already said in other threads.

People will grind and quest if its worth it - simple. People, like me have taken to doing FC, especially at 80+ as the quest rewards make questing completely painful and pointless and FC becomes the better and simpler option.

Imagine if EVERY bh gave good reputation rewards - would people have trouble making bh squads then - course not. Lets then say FB was double that - it would be like the old days with people WCing to actually help in FB's.

Image if the mobs in heaven/hell gave 5x the xp/sp each kill - I guarantee you the place would be full of players and then imagine each quest above 80 gave 10x the xp/sp rewards - again I bet a lot of people would be doing quests instead of logging on just to do bh, previously fc, and now PV.

Its probably very lucky the PWI devs didn't think to turn hypers off in PV as well or the camels back might have finally broke.

Rekabu - Archosaur · March 2013

what u think ur doing? trolling? O.o? b:bye

Crixxix - Raging Tide · March 2013

the word has gotten around to ppl who could of been potential new players that they heard it from your older players that were here since the dawn of pw have told them that pw is nothing more than a game that is after money from players and how the game itself is dying from all this powerlvling. sure some will say from inside the game that if you can find a helpful, family friendly faction that you can survive. that is not true anymore. players want something to be challenging as well as exciting and fun. its not fun when high lvls have to be so pushy and have to pressure players to get this and this and that the moment they start out.

Pwi is not much of a game anymore its a job to the vast majority of powerlvlers who only want a new players in game or real money to make a profit off their clueless and ignorance. If players want to do a game for fun, then it should be fun without having some high lvl run them through their fbs, bhs, boss kills and quests. its even worse when high lvls expect newbies to have certain gear at certain lvl when they just simply cant do it. Exploring the low to midgame content is what makes pwi fun stead of rushing to the end to be told that its suppose to be the beginning when in reality the end is the end and not the beginning.

If i was to read a book from page 1 and then skipped all those chapters just to see how it ends. would that be anywhere near exciting? no it wouldnt cause the last page of the book is the end. how can the last page of a book be the beginning when the adventure itself has ended. the excitement in an adventure is not in the last page but by reading it from the start and going through it just it would be here on pwi. the adventure starts at lvl 1 and ends at 100-105. so no one can convince me otherwise bout how the end is the beginning of the fun part when they are just lying to themselves on the realistic side of it.

I have to agree. While yes, I did a lot of FC, I also did an equal amount of questing and BH, etc. The entire game was and still is fun, and I'm finally getting my r9 (Just got my r9 ring Monday).

A very well written post, and makes a good reference using a book. Kudos to you man.

Tulipia - Dreamweaver · March 2013

Quests below lvl 80 are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good in term of EXP. The lvl cap on FC will make people do them!!! Also they give nice Rep too. I got to lvl 85 on BHs, normal quests, reflection time. >.<

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Read the post just before yours i wrote... I said nothing about "knowing ones class"... I used fc to level my cleric from 81-85 and my barb from 76-85... but reallistically, for the future of PWI... Hypers need to be killed in fc... or level capped...

in response to your last post apostasy and this one, i agree wholeheartedly with everything that you have said up to now. ive seen some of the results of this and it totally burns me up to see average players who should know their class and skills by lvl 60 or 80 and all end up failing. i have seen bout 4-6 players in bh 69 and 79 (mostly in 69) who are not sharded or geared properly and also dont have their skills up to date. there might be some that have their gear, shards and skills up to date but have the wrong kind of shards in their weapon, armor or a skill that it needed and its still lvl 1-3. so in order for the game to be alive again there must be a lvl cap put on FF and the hypers.

Crixxix - Raging Tide · March 2013

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

Read the post just before yours i wrote... I said nothing about "knowing ones class"... I used fc to level my cleric from 81-85 and my barb from 76-85... but reallistically, for the future of PWI... Hypers need to be killed in fc... or level capped...

Ah, sorry, didn't see that. I agree that hypering FC needs to be level capped, but my vote is no due to the way that it would happen. Most likely, it would be changed immediately, which will make other issues arise. I vote putting level cap to 80 if they follow something like this.

What needs to happen in the short term is for it go back to how it was, and slowly wean players from it. In the mean time, we need to see content updates which offer something new and exciting for people, such as an instance that is specifically for experience, but not as much as FC.

Other things we need is to see already existing low level quests give better rewards, and more support for low level people. It seems to me, that most of our content of late (not all) is focused on the higher level people, and little is done to encourage new players to stay. As has been mentioned numerous times, the starting zones and most areas of the map are completely dead, save the occasional alt.

How awesome would it be to see a well done commercial advertising the next expansion of PWI, the greatest F2P game in the world? To me, I couldn't envision a better moment in my gaming career. But in order for them to do this, they need a bigger player base, not including all the alts. We need new people, and more money coming in to help this game grow. Hell, they might even be able to pay China in order to alter the contract to allow for them to make their own changes on our verison. Only problem is, this all takes money.

I vote to follow the guide lines above, and slowly take away hypering FC for people under lvl 80

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · March 2013

Some of my fondest PVE memories were running FC with pro squads (of alts, ofc). I wouldn't want to take that kind of learning experience away, but only when above 75/80/whatever.

But really, PQs, RB and lowbie PV need to be made better; PV30 is pointless due to lack of AoEs at that level tbh, tho

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear · March 2013

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ah, sorry, didn't see that. I agree that hypering FC needs to be level capped, but my vote is no due to the way that it would happen. Most likely, it would be changed immediately, which will make other issues arise. I vote putting level cap to 80 if they follow something like this.

What needs to happen in the short term is for it go back to how it was, and slowly wean players from it. In the mean time, we need to see content updates which offer something new and exciting for people, such as an instance that is specifically for experience, but not as much as FC.

Other things we need is to see already existing low level quests give better rewards, and more support for low level people. It seems to me, that most of our content of late (not all) is focused on the higher level people, and little is done to encourage new players to stay. As has been mentioned numerous times, the starting zones and most areas of the map are completely dead, save the occasional alt.

How awesome would it be to see a well done commercial advertising the next expansion of PWI, the greatest F2P game in the world? To me, I couldn't envision a better moment in my gaming career. But in order for them to do this, they need a bigger player base, not including all the alts. We need new people, and more money coming in to help this game grow. Hell, they might even be able to pay China in order to alter the contract to allow for them to make their own changes on our verison. Only problem is, this all takes money.

I vote to follow the guide lines above, and slowly take away hypering FC for people under lvl 80

I too like to see midlvls to higher lvls get better quests for those of us who are in the 80s -90s. to me its already gotten boring and a lil dull having to do the same old 80-90+ kills when the exp and spirit just isnt there. for me id like to see quests for 80s-90s get more quests per lvl with an increase in exp and spirit. maybe even adding some coin for completing the quest like they did for the quests below lvl 80. it does get rather dull to ppl who have been through the quest lvls for each and every toon/class that they do. If there is going to be quests that require a player to kill 80 or 90+ mobs then make the quest more rewarding stead of killing alot for so little amounts.

But all in all, i myself have lvled each and every toon that i have made the old fashioned way. quests, bhs, the works. except least a few times when i went into FF for a couple of quests or just to gain my next lvl. other than that i have not touched FF much at all which is really good. (ofc theres also the occasional faction member who needs help in an FF run too). so the point is that anyone can lvl up to 80+ or 85+ by doing their quests and dailies. it normally takes me bout a few weeks to lvl up in the 90s if you do things daily. If anyone has a goal to reach like for ex: getting from lvl 92-95 so ya can enter morai. that would be a goal to reach for.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple · March 2013

Walpurga - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Some of my fondest PVE memories were running FC with pro squads (of alts, ofc). I wouldn't want to take that kind of learning experience away, but only when above 75/80/whatever.

But really, PQs, RB and lowbie PV need to be made better; PV30 is pointless due to lack of AoEs at that level tbh, tho

They don't need to be made better, it's already been done. No body sees it because they're too busy leveling past it.

I'm currently playing with a group of friends and we've been playing some low level lts together. We've now capped them at 54, and are going to sit and to RB Alpha runs.
Why? Because we've never done it before. Afer a bit of that, we'll head to Beta's, and so forth. All the while we are exploring the numerous new quests and chains that were added for the lower levels ages ago that no one plays.

Guess who's fighting in these lowbie areas? No one but us. Remember the quest for Taruoc Commanders by Arrowhead? Remember having to fight with 10 other people for the few of them that spawn there? I do. Truly it's just a memory now though because no one is there. They've leveled past it, missed the storyline, and are off somewhere else trying to figure out why they can't level their skills.

XShadowshotx - Heavens Tear · March 2013

A level cap is definitely needed. There is no "new player base" coming into PWI. Those complaining are leveling their alts for buffers, or just to test out a new toon. I'll admit to plvling my buffer alts in FF, currently those two are: a 59 cleric and a lvl 40 barb. I stopped doing this cuz not only is the clearing tedious and boring, but I'd much rather being leveling with a squad and laughing at my mistakes getting critiqued by other players or other veteran players of that class. Disabling hypers in FF, will do a lot for the community of PWI, and I think it would revive a lot of old customs that have been forgotten or not used. PWI is an MMORPG massive multiplayer online roleplaying game. Lets not forget that second word MULTIPLAYER. If you want a single player MMO go back to playing Fable, or Assassin's Creed, or some other console MMO game. I know one of the personal joys I've gotten out of the game is the community, meeting people having a good time and playing a game. And yes a lot of that has changed for me over the 3yrs I've been playing. I TW, PK, NW on my r9s3 archer, I farm on my assassin, my next up and comer is a mystic when my other gear goals are done. If you set goals for yourself you never really lose interest in the game, you always have something to work towards. Weather that be a level, a new piece of gear, a new skill, players should challenge themselves. But that is just my opinion.

My recommendation for the level cap is 85, 75 at lowest because that is when you get your first quest for in FF.

Apostasy - Raging Tide · March 2013

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

Ah, sorry, didn't see that.
Bah, np... i miss stuff all the time... and we've been on good terms too much anyhow as of lately for even differences in opinions, no matter how heated, to really hold any hard feelings for too long... ill forgive you tomorrow b:chuckle
I agree that hypering FC needs to be level capped, but my vote is no due to the way that it would happen. Most likely, it would be changed immediately, which will make other issues arise. I vote putting level cap to 80 if they follow something like this.

What needs to happen in the short term is for it go back to how it was, and slowly wean players from it. Unfortunately, there is no way to wean players out of fc hypering. In the mean time, we need to see content updates which offer something new and exciting for people, such as an instance that is specifically for experience, but not as much as FC. As far as content, there is actually plenty except end game, with the exception of more PvP or bhs... they do need to obviously revive some of the content.

Other things we need is to see already existing low level quests give better rewards, and more support for low level people. It seems to me, that most of our content of late (not all) is focused on the higher level people, and little is done to encourage new players to stay. As has been mentioned numerous times, the starting zones and most areas of the map are completely dead, save the occasional alt. This is due to hyper - powerleveling, be it in fc or any other areas we may still yet to see emerge if they actually grow a pair and at least cap fc intentionally.

How awesome would it be to see a well done commercial advertising the next expansion of PWI, the greatest F2P game in the world? With all the money PWE makes off us, you'd think they would commercially advertise on television etc... but i think that would be a major mistake for them to do until the kinks are worked out... such as devoid of life beginner cities. To me, I couldn't envision a better moment in my gaming career. Best moment in my gaming career will be when I finally release my own game... that could be decades though if it ever happens... need to finish my "quantum gravity & higher dimensions subjects" book first to get money rolling in that direction at all though... been highly unmotivated, and this game does not help b:surrender But in order for them to do this, they need a bigger player base, not including all the alts. We need new people, and more money coming in to help this game grow. Hell, they might even be able to pay China in order to alter the contract to allow for them to make their own changes on our verison. Only problem is, this all takes money. Bigger player base directly = a game that does not appear dead on entrance, killing off the hyper powerleveling in fc would greatly be a move in that direction.

I vote to follow the guide lines above, and slowly take away hypering FC for people under lvl 80 Like i said, there is no way to do something like this slowly, except with how long most additions take to come out after first hearing about it... And i was saying level 85... its been years since i was in there questing on this toon... the level cap should simply be whatever the actual level to open fc is to begin with... someone stated it was 75... if thats the actual level one needs to be to open fc, then that realistically should be the cap. at that point, i do hope pwe adds some content to persuade 75-100's to go somewhere besides fc once in a while at least...

see ya around Crixxix b:victory

WnbTank - Archosaur · March 2013

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Belated post is belated!

You answered your own question later on in your post, so let's pull that quote up here:

So what's your point here, again? That we need a leveling method for 100+? I think you'd be only the millionth person to suggest that. :P

Regarding entering Frost outside its level range... well yes, welcome to the point. That along with its ability to be done as many times as your hypers allow is what gives Frost its ability to be abused as such.

The point is I dont understand thinking behind accepting PV as "legit" and making FC "cheating". It just makes no sense whatsoever. PV is by far superior when it comes to short term xp, it costs more on hypers and cant be spammed like FC. But 15min of PV vs 15min of FC? Whole buying xp rooms is a different thing though but you dont at any point consider there would be any "legit" way to level in FC. It feels completely arbitrary.

Yet nobody seems to even consider my quite significant experience regarding FC buyers. You are talking out of your *** if you try to give any numbers on who powerlevel, I can draw from my large number of samples. Its plain fact I have lot better idea who, least on Archosaur, buy FC powerleveling services. You try to force feed restrictions with this one goal in mind and I tell you, the ones you consider problem are small minority among powerlevelers.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Dude, I'm sure there's a million ways to allow people to get to 105 easier than is possible today. The fact that wanmei never followed through on closing the gap between the abusers and non-abusers of the goon glitch doesn't change the fact that the goon glitch needed to be fixed. I'm sorry, but why are we even talking about R9S3s? This is a thread about Frost powerleveling. Let's stay on topic if we can help it.

Obviously its my personal opinion that not closing down goons was mistake as the balance wasnt restored trough other means. They pretty much gave easy 105s to people and those who were unable to do so for reason or the other can never take the same option. Your approach is intentional tunnel vision so to say. If the "fix" doesnt take into account the impact bug created, it really is quite poor "fix".

R999s are relevant as those are only ones who can solo PV enough times in the 15mins it can be spammed to level at reasonable speed. Seekers have lesser gear requirements, though also those have to be fairly geared. Then again I suspect you consider soloing PV multiple times per token an abuse too.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

C'mon now, you're a smart boy... you should know that our devs have a terrible habit of developing new things without respect or adherence to what came before it (see also: packs and nirvana enabling widespread use of aps). That being said, assuming that the devs intended Frost powerleveling just because both pieces of it happen to exist is absurd.

Again I think you prove my point here by saying that tab killing heads would be bad. I know I'm not the one who sells BRs here, but isn't that most of what people do in powerleveling? Especially in early levels, I mean... the process is basically stand back while the seller solo's the boss and the mob pull, then help tabkill the heads. Maybe they could do some minimal damage on the mob pull or put up BB if they're a 59+ cleric, but that's hardly a substitute for actual squad experience.

The non-powerleveling game includes all kinds of ways to level, and by 60+ you're starting to get squads for things. BH is a wonderful way to get a feel for squad mechanics. BH29 and 39 aren't usually done without "help," regrettably, but 51 and 59 I see routinely done by squads. Then once you get to BH69, Frost is available as well to further refine your skills at an appropriate level to actually get some use out of them there.

Actually, hypers in FC were intended. They had to adjust code in order to allow it as its not possible in China. I find it quite enough proof of intended feature. Rest is rant bout low levels FCing but yeah, surely you know who powerlevel better than somebody who sold 5-10 FCs a day for months. Like seriously, how would I know who I sold the rooms?

But you have taken approach where something has to be restricted because small minority causes problem related to it. I would consider the same people just as bad as they are if they quested to 100.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, congratulations then, I think you've given me another reason not to play that game. Quick question, if this game is so terrible and stomping on your rights and everything... why are you here, and not there?

I ask you, are you intentionally building straw mans or dont you simply understand what you are doing? As for why I chose to return to PWI was TWs and friends.

WoW has handled power creep in admirable manner. They have heroic mode of older instances, which give rewards along the lines of endgame instances, with similar difficulty too. WoW also has, if I had to guess, over 30 instances which give experience, that discounting heroic mode instances. They are scaled for level ranges and you have new instance every other level. Old content instances are still better way to level than questing and you can quest, hit yourself on dungeon finder and keep on questing till it finds you a party.

Sure, the older content raid(Read ultimate PvE gear) instances got outdated as game progressed but then again those were still done for achievements. I know I was addicted to mounts and hunted older content for ways to increase my number of mounts. I had several drakes but not a one I would call cool looking dragon, which was the goal along gathering every single mount possible.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Merging answer with below:

Nice framing, but purely dependent on the existing situation. The whole "don't ruin my fun" argument only barely holds up, and even then, only because that happens to be the status quo. If powerleveling were never heard of and you were here advocating a brand-spanking new way to level at at least 10x the speed of any existing method, you'd be laughed out of the room. It's all about the context. People QQ over losing it because they've been spoiled by it.

So you want to know what you're forcing? How about forcing the entire game to accommodate your need for instant gratification in order to have fun? Or forcing the community to legitimize it? Again - I'm sure there's no shortage of pservers out there which offer your ideal brand of fun, so I'm at a loss as to why you feel the need to burden the official ones with it.

Regarding RL stuff... of course I can sympathize with that. Hell, it's not like I spend my life on this game. I play the game for maybe two hours a day except on weekends, and even then maybe 4-5 hours/day tops. I've still only got two 100+ characters out of the five I intend to get there (though the BM is close at 99.40). Does that mean I deserve 100 on five characters, because I have a life? Absolutely not. It means I prioritize RL over game, and of course my endgame character count and general wealth is going to reflect that. I'd rather live with that than trying to rationalize what I think I "deserve."

So the basic answer to your question there? Uniformity, really. As with many other things, the idea is that you get into this game what you put out of it (RL cash notwithstanding, but even that kinda counts depending on how you look at it). If life demands that people like you and I have less time to spend on this game, then we end up with less stuff and less influence in-game. What can I say? Life ain't fair.

I know I am repeating myself but major straw man... I find it ludicrous you rely on strawman arguments after you have been reminded of your actions. As for people who dont know what strawman argument is? Its not really any argument.

I ask you seriously, when or where I have asked you to powerlevel? Nowhere, just because something is possible doesnt mean you have to take it. That is the beauty of options, you can play the game more freely to how you want to play it. What you are doing is trying to forbid powerleveling and thus limit options other people have. Then you create absurd strawman where I really dont know what you are trying to prove.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Would you have preferred I go over 30+ pages with a fine-toothed comb and quote every redundant argument? Aside from the final one which I stylized in all caps, they seem pretty on-target to me. *shrug*

Straw man alert! xD

There are quite a few more approaches than making straw mans out of oppositions arguments or going trough 30 pages and answering to all of them. Or not, what I know, I am only a powerleveler after all.

Ps. I guess napping is bad <.<.

miyaxan · March 2013

Think a lvl req for fc would be good or something that makes ppl learn their class hard to get anything done now and its why ppl require links of gear before u get into most squads. make it fair for the non cash players again a bit at least

Fissile - Archosaur · March 2013

If you don't like the way someone else plays ("hyper babies" or "people that don't know their class"), then don't play with them. If someone power levels all the way to 100+ without ever learning how to play, it doesn't hurt the game for anyone but themselves.

Putting a level limit on it doesn't really make sense because they can level almost as fast by zhenning on shattered cloud island (from brand new to level 50-55 on shattered cloud vs level 60+ in FC if you are careful with your activations). What you will end up with is lots of people fighting over the two pits on shattered cloud.

Apostasy - Raging Tide · March 2013

miyaxan wrote: »

Think a lvl req for fc would be good or something that makes ppl learn their class hard to get anything done now and its why ppl require links of gear before u get into most squads. make it fair for the non cash players again a bit at least

In all honesty, the more important aspect of level capping fc hyper powerleveling or disabling it... is toward the future of PWI.

As far as players that dont know what they are doing, they will be in every game... just look at percentages in any aspect or field in life... very few are going to be in the top of anything... rest are all average or feeble at best...

this also does not take into consideration the fact that some of those "that dont know how to play their class" are actually just kids... Us older players ought to be trying to help them out and to teach them, rather than attack them, bully them and discourage them...

Personally, i see anyone that asks for weapon links to put a squad together, does not know how to play their own class... And in very rare instances do i even see a need for specific classes at all... Lord of Captivation in SoT for instance... needs a powerful tank-type, Ive yet to see any class besides a barb hold this position... i have seen plenty try b:chuckle

People need to learn to play / adjust their playstyle, according to squad make up, and not make a squad according to their cookie cutter playstyle... THAT is how to have fun in any rpgmmo b:cute

cash shoppers... non-cash shoppers... one does not need the best gears in order to know how to play their class... and every class has almost all of the genie skills available to them with few exceptions... most people too often have 100+ characters "help them" with bh 29, 39, and on up the line to a point whereas they do not know how to run any dungeon at level... it is sad but true... b:surrender

however, that is only when it comes to PvE content... it really is not until you start hitting PvP events that cash shopping versus non-cash shopping really becomes an actual problem... but in reality, i do not advice PvP with very few exceptions (nation wars and dragon temple in particular) until you hit 100... at that point, even non-cash shoppers can compete as long as they can get to nation wars to get upgraded gears...

Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?

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