Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?

Eoria - Harshlands

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

It is not allowed in any other version of the game

We're a pretty unique version of the game all things considered anyway so why the hell not.

It causes the world map to be empty, because of rational choice theory
It discourages new players (see point 2)
By discouraging new players, it decreases the longevity of the game

We don't get new players. This game is kinda old by now. Not like -removed- or -removed- old, but you get the idea. They're better off trying to keep older players that will inevitably make tons of alts to do whatever with.

It pretty much kills the following instances in the same way NW kills NV, by making it make less sense to do them: Phoenix Valley up to 95, Hall of Deception, Gate of Delirium, Secret Frostcover grounds, Valley of Disaster, Wraithgate, Hallucinatory Trench (smaller impact), Brimstone Pit, Eden, Valley of Reciprocity through gamma, Heaven, Hell, the world map, OHT, cube of fate below 100, reflection (smaller impact)

The culti dungeons will always be run so you can take 59/69/79/89 off of that list. Can make 19/29/39/51 be run just by fixing the culti quests to include them. The fix to GV being run Alpha - Gamma would be to simply increase the rewards for doing it. Same for Cube below 96 or whenever it is you can start getting cogs and library pages. As for Heaven/Hell, people still go there to farm herbs and now we have the veno/barb new form quests in there. OHT is still populated by people doing culti or the daily quest for tears as it was intended.

And lastly we come to the world map...now if more quests were like the Goshiki quest line that had a decent storyline with good exp+rewards and less "go kill 80 mobs then go kill 80 more mobs for 50k exp and cookie" I could maybe see the argument, but as it stands, there's very little of worth on the main map past a certain point. I did go back and do some of the newer updated quests when I decided to see what the fuss was about and they were definitely nice. I'd run them if it was my first character or an alt I just started (in fact, I did run all the EG quests between both my male and female mystics when I made them), but I'm not going to run them three or four times over for new alts on my account unless the rewards are really good like the Goshiki quest.

There's also the problem that the new updated quests stop completely at like level 80. Okay. So what do I do from 80-100? I'll have exhausted all the new good quests until I hit 95 in Morai and that'll only take me up to 96 or 97. I can run PV if I can get a squad or run BH by logging an alt, but that just ends up tiresome for not as much potential exp or not worth the tele cost in PV's case. Cube is kinda annoying to run at that level still and Tournament is only once a week. So what do I do?

It renders the following quest obsolete: world quest

Myself and quite a few other people actually still run wq for exp to get to 105. It's not dead, it's just boring and something I do while I basically have to afk for three hours.

It encourages people to pass on greater costs of mistakes to other people, who have no ability to opt out of squadding with those people since you can't tell whether a random squad mate has FC or not until the instance has started. (Mistakes at higher levels are more costly both in coin, and in time, considering exp is harder to get)

Uhh...have you tried explaining to these people how to do things? I mean, it sucks having to explain things a lot, but it's how everyone learns. Or just kick them out of squad if they're such a hassle? Or just leave. It's not the end of the ****ing world.

Discourages open map pk in non-hot spots on PVP servers

This is more a problem of the game in general than just FC and you would have to change the game pretty radically at this point to fix it. To the point of there being basically no PVE farming/leveling instances whatsoever.

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

another question gm said fc will be bk 2 normal on next update when will that be? next wednesday?

It'll be reverted when it can be done.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Levantica - Raging Tide wrote: »

Fc babies? LOL
How do you people know that people who power lvl dont have alts for years or they are pro cuz maybe they play in private servers and we all know you learn a lot from there. And if someone choose to make lvl 100 in 2 days what is your problem?
All I see here are jealous kids that they are to mad cuz they lvl in years and few years back cant afford to pay 500k on heads.
Do what MOD say: If you like so much the "OLD" way, why dont you all wait months to get X2 and go to Nirvana and farm raps, why take it in 2 hours?
But if those "babies" are R9 +12..OMG so PRO right?

Based on the current quest system, without using Hypers, or FCC aside from the regular quests, here's how fast you can level a toon...

1-19, 3-5 hours.
20-40 5-8 hours
40-50 2-3 hours
50-60 6-8 hours
60-70 about 15 hours
70-80 about 20 hours
80-90 about 23 hours
90-100 about 40 hours

And this is just based off of doing regular quests, and dailies. The time can't all be done at once, but if you log in every day and just spend a couple of hours doing daily quests, you can have a level 100 toon in just a month or two.

Additionally, from actually playing your toon on quests and learning how it works and how your skills works, you'll be much more wanted in a squad that the idiot who leveled to 100 in a few days, doesn't have decent skills because of a lack of spirit points, and had no clue how to play the toon on top of that.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

did u guys seriously type all that nd read it? 1 word : impressive lol

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I find typing very easy, if I were on my laptop I could type 67 words per minute. And if someone replies to me, I always reply back to their whole post. If someone messages me, I always respond. I feel like a mod should always be willing to reply to people who address them, but that is just me.

And I type 75wpm and am a natural speed reader with normal comprehension when not distracted. I also like a good debate, and at times it's a toss up if my larp crowd or MMO crowd is more **** or intellegent over the other. If I barely post on topics I feel strongly about it's prolly cause I'm busy in my other hobby or I'm stupid level busy at work. (Or at home doing PWI stuff in game).

So yea nothing impressive outta Venus or I, its normal. We've got some old posts that get this old-lady-like in another thread too.

Levantica - Raging Tide

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

Vitriol and snark don't impress, nor do they improve your argument. Limiting our game as you choose also makes no sense, nor moves your point along. Many cogent, valid reasons for wanting to limit fc have been presented. Emotional rants and insults are insufficient to refute them.

Easy for you to care, you 103 lvl and don't care anymore. How about to close NW and go back to Nirvana when is X2, will you care then? That is my argument and it does a lot of sens. Just cuz you dont care anymore about FC dont mean you should decide for other people how they choose to lvl the characters.

Brillance - Raging Tide

GlenRoss - Archosaur wrote: »

Vitriol and snark don't impress, nor do they improve your argument. Limiting our game as you choose also makes no sense, nor moves your point along. Many cogent, valid reasons for wanting to limit fc have been presented. Emotional rants and insults are insufficient to refute them.

Yes, many greedy, selfish and or careless opinions have been voiced. They aren't sufficient to actually bring the result they claim either. b:chuckle

Crixxix - Raging Tide

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

I find typing very easy, if I were on my laptop I could type 67 words per minute. And if someone replies to me, I always reply back to their whole post. If someone messages me, I always respond. I feel like a mod should always be willing to reply to people who address them, but that is just me.

I think your a great Mod, ignore what this guy says. There's ALWAYS gonna be haters and trolls, and this proves it.

SweetieBot, please award oVenusArmanio - MOD 10 points for keeping her cool during a troll attack! b:chuckle

SinfulLia - Archosaur

Levantica - Raging Tide wrote: »

Easy for you to care, you 103 lvl and don't care anymore. How about to close NW and go back to Nirvana when is X2, will you care then? That is my argument and it does a lot of sens. Just cuz you dont care anymore about FC dont mean you should decide for other people how they choose to lvl the characters.

SweetieBot please remove 3 points from Levantica - Raging Tide for making my eyes bleed

Levantica - Raging Tide

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

Yes, many greedy, selfish and or careless opinions have been voiced. They aren't sufficient to actually bring the result they claim either. b:chuckle

b:chuckle
Haters gonna hate next update lol

Levantica - Raging Tide

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

SweetieBot please remove 3 points from Levantica - Raging Tide for making my eyes bleed

LOL b:laugh I love that I have that impact over you

SweetieBot - Lothranis

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

SweetieBot, please award oVenusArmanio - MOD 10 points for keeping her cool during a troll attack!

Crixxix - Raging Tide awards 10 points to oVenusArmanio!
oVenusArmanio now has a total of 33 points and is in 9th place.
Crixxix - Raging Tide can still award another 20 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

GlenRoss - Archosaur

Khaime - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Apparently people got a problem with so called "FC-Babies" - easy to solve that: either get friends u do ur quests with or teach them babies how to play...
Crying doesnt solve anything , neither does turning to old times - the "damage" was done.

>>> Nobody's crying. We're stating our case. "Crying" is a pejorative intended to demean those presenting the opposing point. It fails. And yes the damage was done and it can be undone. The resulting harm would diminish over time.

>No Hypers in FC? - people will find a way around that...
They already do by asking high-ups to do their BHs and stuff.

And tell me how does that promote learning ur class.

>>> It doesn't. But citing one type of unproductive behavior fails to justify another. A lot more people squad up and do things right, rather than being carried. I don't see that in fc.

>Level limit? - U all said its damn easy to level to 85 without FC... So whats the gain?

>>> As has been stated innumerable times, the gain is that the littles learn their toons while playing through the quests which were designed to do just that.

And to all those who like to tell "I leveled my char without FC (and look how great i am...)" - nice u ve done that, but it doesnt give u any right to force people to follow ur tracks.
If u r as pro as u think now, u should be aware of the fact u started as a nub too.

>>> "look how great I am" is a pejorative intended to demean those presenting the opposing point. It fails. I'm guessing you would ignore a challenge to show an example of that. I have the same rights you do, to express my opinion about what would be best for the game. See how cool that is? I get to have a say, too.

>>> And of course you knew nobody is trying to force others to "follow in our tracks". That's just another attempt to substitute emotion for logic. We've stated our reasons but those are hard to rebut so you chose to set up a strawman argument and defeat that one. Yes I did start as a noob and did not ask anyone to carry me. I learned to play the game. Many people don't. All they know is to spam the attack buttons because they've never had to work out combinations or learn how and why things work.

BTW I ve been playing this game since 2008 on various servers, and there were and always will be people who want to turn back time to the "good old days". Luckily PWI never listened to that or all ur sins, psys, and EG would be history.b:bye

Congratulations on your longevity but not on your logic. I respect your right to your opinion. I only wish it could have been stated with a bit more calm diplomacy.

SweetieBot - Lothranis

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

SweetieBot please remove 3 points from Levantica - Raging Tide for making my eyes bleed

You can't remove more than 2 points per request.
SinfulLia - Archosaur removes 2 points from Levantica - Raging Tide!
Levantica - Raging Tide now has a total of -2 points and is in 67th place.
SinfulLia - Archosaur can still remove another 3 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

another question gm said fc will be bk 2 normal on next update when will that be? next wednesday?

It'll be reverted when it can be done.

Oups_Dead - Harshlands wrote: »

another question gm said fc will be bk 2 normal on next update when will that be? next wednesday?

Read V4liance's post in the other thread, which has already been qupted in this thread a few times because people obviously can't read.

v4liance wrote: »

I've updated the original post with follow up information on FCC and TW rewards.

For now, FCC will be reverted to allow hyper exp with the next maintenance, and TW rewards will also be fixed in the next maintenance.

Whether FCC will remain that way, we can discuss further.

As for this week's TW rewards, assuming only Mirages get sent out, we'll be manually reimbursing every Faction leader for the territories they hold.

- Val

There. I even highlighted it for those that have difficulty reading an entire post. (Because you know you're out there.)

"When is next maintenance", you say?
It's when it usually is. Every Week, same day, same time, unless for some reason they don't have it, like a holiday, or nothing to update. I'll leave you to figure that out by looking on your own if you don't already know.

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Crixxix - Raging Tide wrote: »

I think your a great Mod, ignore what this guy says. There's ALWAYS gonna be haters and trolls, and this proves it.

Venus IS a great mod. My issue is with things that aren't mod related.

Also ffs stop feeding the off topic **** game that gunks up the topics. It's sad that it fits the entire definition of off topic spamming a thread with useless yet is 100% tolerated. I hope none of Zan's nonsense posts get deleted or depthed as his slop takes up less of a percentage than the points game ****.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Venus IS a great mod. My issue is with things that aren't mod related.

Also ffs stop feeding the off topic **** game that gunks up the topics. It's sad that it fits the entire definition of off topic spamming a thread with useless yet is 100% tolerated. I hope none of Zan's nonsense posts get deleted or depthed as his slop takes up less of a percentage than the points game ****.

Hey, hey, hey. Some of my posts are legitimate. Not a high percentage, granted, but I do have legitimate posts from time to time. b:sad

FurioKill - Heavens Tear

Its funny cause im not against lv restriction but everybody its going to high 75+ 85+? i usually lv my chars to 40-50 by my own and then ocasionally some pwlv im not a fc baby cause i have learned my chars the problem i dont like a lv restriction of 75+ or 85+ its cause have you have done swamp quests? most of them are highly boring im in my 5th char(have 4 chars 100+) and i didnt want to do that same swamp quests >.< but well just my opinion but taking ff doesnt gonna change the fc just gonna get reflection or oracle babys again

Arwia - Momaganon

Saying "restricting lvl won't solve the fc baby problem" is like saying "why should we catch that serial killer? it's not like it's going to bring any victims back to life". There needs to be a lvl restriction so it doesn't happen anymore.

Also, leveling to 70 is a piece of cake. I didn't do fc, or bh, only quests. And even so i fed my genie so i don't level too fast. If you just do all quests you can see, you can get to 70 in no time at all. For 80 you might need bh too, but that's hardly a reason to complain.

So yeah... lvl restrict fc to 80. It would be the best thing ever. People need to play their damn classes, cause i'm tired of high level know-it-alls that have never heard of rib strike, that use soulsever on a boss and never gemini and of lvl90+ barbs that die when glitching 2nd fc boss.

_Quwan_ - Dreamweaver

well why dont we just make a lvl restricted to lvl 90 then u all can stop whining about it then it iwll be 10x times hard. i lvled my barb to lvl 90 then 91 for fcs so why dont we just do lvl 90 to 100 that should be interesting then everyone ofc will be against it. if that then put it to lvl 70+only >.>

opkossy

Two things.


1: Val's already stated he has no intention of having us silenced of opinion on these accounts. As we have to post on the mod accounts, any concerns over our personal opinions should be left at the opinions themselves and not the fact that we're posting them as mods. Continuing to debate that is a waste of time and effort that just drags things away from the topics at hand, so enough is enough on that end.


2: For everyone else get back to the topic at hand. I have no desire to go on a mass deletion spree, but I'm quite aware I'm not the only one who will do so if things here don't stay on topic.






@FurioKill: Nobody's saying to disable hypers outside of Frost and they'd be just as viable there if you didn't want to do swamp quests (though I never had much problem with them after getting used to the -stupidly infuriating the first time- water issues there). The level cap we're talking about is purely for Frost itself.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Arwia - Momaganon wrote: »

Saying "restricting lvl won't solve the fc baby problem" is like saying "why should we catch that serial killer? it's not like it's going to bring any victims back to life". There needs to be a lvl restriction so it doesn't happen anymore.

Also, leveling to 70 is a piece of cake. I didn't do fc, or bh, only quests. And even so i fed my genie so i don't level too fast. If you just do all quests you can see, you can get to 70 in no time at all. For 80 you might need bh too, but that's hardly a reason to complain.

So yeah... lvl restrict fc to 80. It would be the best thing ever. People need to play their damn classes, cause i'm tired of high level know-it-alls that have never heard of rib strike, that use soulsever on a boss and never gemini and of lvl90+ barbs that die when glitching 2nd fc boss.

I kinda agree!

Lets make it so chars 100+ cant hyper in FC. Then they will be playing a lot more, right??

Uh-huh....b:chuckle

Star_Prism - Archosaur

SinfulLia - Archosaur wrote: »

Maybe you should post on a 100+ toon so we take you more seriously when you talk about leveling to 100 in a couple of months b:chuckle

My avatar is broken on my main, it still says she is level 10. I ended up posting from my farmer just because it was a little bit higher. 35 is better than 10 b:chuckle

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Based on the current quest system, without using Hypers, or FCC aside from the regular quests, here's how fast you can level a toon...

1-19, 3-5 hours.
20-40 5-8 hours
40-50 2-3 hours
50-60 6-8 hours
60-70 about 15 hours
70-80 about 20 hours
80-90 about 23 hours
90-100 about 40 hours

And this is just based off of doing regular quests, and dailies. The time can't all be done at once, but if you log in every day and just spend a couple of hours doing daily quests, you can have a level 100 toon in just a month or two.

Additionally, from actually playing your toon on quests and learning how it works and how your skills works, you'll be much more wanted in a squad that the idiot who leveled to 100 in a few days, doesn't have decent skills because of a lack of spirit points, and had no clue how to play the toon on top of that.

Thank you for posting this. It was exactly what I was trying to say.

SkywardSaint - Dreamweaver

Agreed, i forsee Oracle babies making a comback once again untill they reach the Supposid "lvl restriction" untill they can enter FC where they then will proceed to be Powerlvld and still be "FC Babies" as yall put it ;P

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver

FurioKill - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Its funny cause im not against lv restriction but everybody its going to high 75+ 85+? i usually lv my chars to 40-50 by my own and then ocasionally some pwlv im not a fc baby cause i have learned my chars the problem i dont like a lv restriction of 75+ or 85+ its cause have you have done swamp quests? most of them are highly boring im in my 5th char(have 4 chars 100+) and i didnt want to do that same swamp quests >.< but well just my opinion but taking ff doesnt gonna change the fc just gonna get reflection or oracle babys again

I loved the swamp quests before they changed them to make them about 5x easier.
You only have to kill like, 10-12 mobs for the quests there now since I just did them for the umpteenth time the other day on an alt. Yes I have done them a few times on several charas when you still had to kill like 50 or however many mobs before it was changed (can't remember exact number, been too long)
But there are still plenty of alternatives to leveling other than FC. Quests, BH, PV, Gamma, etc.

I just don't understand how some people are so obsessed with power leveling by FC, I get that if you already have one or several 100+ toons and don't want to go through the leveling process again but, isn't it more fun to actually play the game? Being able to see and experience it all again through the eyes of another class? And actually learning it? Especially now that it is so much easier to level at low-mid levels with all the changes.
:<

rawkjawk

this is complete and utter nonesense. I dont know where you got your calculations from or if you just made them up or what but they are way off. A month or two to get a 10x char lol dude try 1.5 yrs which is the amount of time it took me to level my barb to 100. and i was logged in literally all the time or at least half a freaking day.


correction: star wasnt the original poster but the fact is still the same

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

rawkjawk wrote: »

this is complete and utter nonesense. I dont know where you got your calculations from or if you just made them up or what but they are way off. A month or two to get a 10x char lol dude try 1.5 yrs which is the amount of time it took me to level my barb to 100. and i was logged in literally all the time or at least half a freaking day.


correction: star wasnt the original poster but the fact is still the same

Many things have been implemented that award much more xp than previously obtained via questing only. It's entirely possible to hit 80 in a month or two as opposed to 4+ it used to take if you only quested.

Brillance - Raging Tide

rawkjawk wrote: »

this is complete and utter nonesense. I dont know where you got your calculations from or if you just made them up or what but they are way off. A month or two to get a 10x char lol dude try 1.5 yrs which is the amount of time it took me to level my barb to 100. and i was logged in literally all the time or at least half a freaking day.


correction: star wasnt the original poster but the fact is still the same

Hi, my name is Brill, and Im a Mystic. Playing this 'new class' almost 2 years, and you can easily see my correct level. +1. b:victory

Euthymius - Heavens Tear

rawkjawk wrote: »

this is complete and utter nonesense. I dont know where you got your calculations from or if you just made them up or what but they are way off. A month or two to get a 10x char lol dude try 1.5 yrs which is the amount of time it took me to level my barb to 100. and i was logged in literally all the time or at least half a freaking day.


correction: star wasnt the original poster but the fact is still the same

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

Based on the current quest system,

Times have changed.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Star_Prism - Archosaur wrote: »

My avatar is broken on my main, it still says she is level 10. I ended up posting from my farmer just because it was a little bit higher. 35 is better than 10 b:chuckle



Thank you for posting this. It was exactly what I was trying to say.

You're welcome. And I can state it accurately as near fact because I've leveled a 101, a 98, a 97, a 92, an 80, two 74's, a 70, and about 15 others in the 60's. That's the toons I didn't cheat on. If I really want to create a character and level it fast, I'll start Friday night, and by Monday morning I'll be level 70 AND fully geared by farming it. Not by purchasing it or passing things down, and not by using any hypers at all, much less FCC. And I'll have actually gotten regular sleep as well.

Truly, there is no need for a character to hyper in FCC until 100.

Levantica - Raging Tide

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're welcome. And I can state it accurately as near fact because I've leveled a 101, a 98, a 97, a 92, an 80, two 74's, a 70, and about 15 others in the 60's. That's the toons I didn't cheat on. If I really want to create a character and level it fast, I'll start Friday night, and by Monday morning I'll be level 70 AND fully geared by farming it. Not by purchasing it or passing things down, and not by using any hypers at all, much less FCC. And I'll have actually gotten regular sleep as well.

Truly, there is no need for a character to hyper in FCC until 100.

what is sleep? b:surrender