Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?

_Thia_ - Dreamweaver

PWI has been selling hypers , and let me repeat..selling, claiming they boost your exp gaign ingame, so..anywhere ingame. If they don't work in a determined place or places, wouldnt that be deceiving? Besides who cares how ppl lvl? There will always be nabs with or without Fcs and i am trully tired of seing popular instances going down one by one ( like nirvana was). Gives us more, not less.

Hamnil - Dreamweaver

it affect the game for every1 if u cant get ppl that can do anything actually like when nirvy was a big deal ppl only wanting +10 weps and 5.0 aps basically the same now with ws u need to be able to solo but ppl still ask for wep links cause ppl dont know how to play their classes they rely on their gear were does that put the ppl that know can still solo a pav but dont have the best gear same position is what

Miugre - Heavens Tear

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

The point is I dont understand thinking behind accepting PV as "legit" and making FC "cheating". It just makes no sense whatsoever. PV is by far superior when it comes to short term xp, it costs more on hypers and cant be spammed like FC. But 15min of PV vs 15min of FC? Whole buying xp rooms is a different thing though but you dont at any point consider there would be any "legit" way to level in FC. It feels completely arbitrary.

Yet nobody seems to even consider my quite significant experience regarding FC buyers. You are talking out of your *** if you try to give any numbers on who powerlevel, I can draw from my large number of samples. Its plain fact I have lot better idea who, least on Archosaur, buy FC powerleveling services. You try to force feed restrictions with this one goal in mind and I tell you, the ones you consider problem are small minority among powerlevelers.

Okay, you're reaching the point where you're just starting to say far too much to be completely missing the point whilst doing so. It's very simple: Frost powerlevel is spammable, buyable and has no level or squad restrictions, making it hugely different from PV (and yes, vastly more popular) even if we were to believe your claim that PV exp = Frost exp, which frankly I don't.

So yes, I consider that cheating. Apparently, about 65% of the forum also considers it cheating. If you still "can't understand" why, there's not much more I can do for you. -_-;

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Obviously its my personal opinion that not closing down goons was mistake as the balance wasnt restored trough other means. They pretty much gave easy 105s to people and those who were unable to do so for reason or the other can never take the same option. Your approach is intentional tunnel vision so to say. If the "fix" doesnt take into account the impact bug created, it really is quite poor "fix".

Welcome to PWI, man. You want something fixed? You'd better be loud, you'd better be organized, and you'd better be persistent (and even then, there's a good chance it'll all fall on deaf ears). You want more ways to 105, well, keep up the pressure. The only thing anything ever gets done around here is through vocal and persistent pressure on the only sounding board we can access (namely, the CM)... which, admittedly, would be a lot easier if we didn't have to deal with all the shameless apologists and rationalizers. >_>

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

R999s are relevant as those are only ones who can solo PV enough times in the 15mins it can be spammed to level at reasonable speed. Seekers have lesser gear requirements, though also those have to be fairly geared. Then again I suspect you consider soloing PV multiple times per token an abuse too.

Again you miss my point, so I guess I have to spell it out for you.
R9S3 requires level 101.
We are talking about powerleveling newbies. Newbies do not have access to R9S3 gear. And those with R9S3 gear would not be able to get into PV with newbies in order to powerlevel them.
What part of this is hard to understand?

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Actually, hypers in FC were intended. They had to adjust code in order to allow it as its not possible in China. I find it quite enough proof of intended feature. Rest is rant bout low levels FCing but yeah, surely you know who powerlevel better than somebody who sold 5-10 FCs a day for months. Like seriously, how would I know who I sold the rooms?

But you have taken approach where something has to be restricted because small minority causes problem related to it. I would consider the same people just as bad as they are if they quested to 100.

*headdesk* Okay, one last stab at this... what's your point here? That bad players exist whether or not they're powerleveled? Common knowledge. Doesn't dispel any of my other points.

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

I ask you, are you intentionally building straw mans or dont you simply understand what you are doing?

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

I know I am repeating myself but major straw man... I find it ludicrous you rely on strawman arguments after you have been reminded of your actions.

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Then you create absurd strawman where I really dont know what you are trying to prove.

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Straw man alert! xD

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

There are quite a few more approaches than making straw mans out of oppositions arguments or going trough 30 pages and answering to all of them. Or not, what I know, I am only a powerleveler after all.

What. The. Hell. Are. You. Talking. About.

I paraphrased a few common pro-powerlever arguments like twenty pages back and now I can't seem to say anything without you breaking out the word "strawman" where it doesn't belong. Honestly, what are you playing at here? I don't have to paraphrase a single thing if I've chosen a specific person to reply to. So which one of us are you calling a strawman and why?

Throw me a bone here. You're making absolutely zero sense.

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

I ask you seriously, when or where I have asked you to powerlevel? Nowhere, just because something is possible doesnt mean you have to take it. That is the beauty of options, you can play the game more freely to how you want to play it. What you are doing is trying to forbid powerleveling and thus limit options other people have.

I never said you asked me to powerlevel. I said that you're expecting the whole game to conform to your personal idea of fun, and for the entire community to legitimize it. If you're just going to keep glazing over my points and not actually answering them, I'm gonna start wondering which one of us is the supposed strawman here. -_-

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Ps. I guess napping is bad <.<.

Meh. I didn't check this thread for seven hours straight, it's only by sheer luck that I found your post. Such is the nature of a fast-moving thread like this one.

Narcillatrix - Dreamweaver

Apostasy - Raging Tide wrote: »

this also does not take into consideration the fact that some of those "that dont know how to play their class" are actually just kids... Us older players ought to be trying to help them out and to teach them, rather than attack them, bully them and discourage them...

Personally, i see anyone that asks for weapon links to put a squad together, does not know how to play their own class... And in very rare instances do i even see a need for specific classes at all... Lord of Captivation in SoT for instance... needs a powerful tank-type, Ive yet to see any class besides a barb hold this position... i have seen plenty try b:chuckle

I most certainly agree with you, but sometimes I will come across someone who doesn't quite seem to have idea on what to do in a situation with a squad. Like as if they have never done it before (which they may not have) which is fine, we can help them learn. But sometimes when the squad tries to help explain and give tips, said person will either refuse to listen, or just lash out at the squad for their suggestion.

And to those people who ask for weapon links? I stay away from them, weapon link required squads have a tendency to end badly. (On most occasion said people looking for links don't even link their own) And believe it or not on DW I always see people looking for specific DD classes for BH SoT. Mainly looking for high aps sins...Right..On a highly non-aps friendly boss..

mrmorbio

Quests in FC start in lvl75.

Teleport Stone is 75+.

So ?

Lv. Restrict 85+ ? wtf b:laugh

Make a lv. restrict 75+ is fine and normal, who have quest in fc need permission for use hyper too... b:angry

KitsuneBlood - Archosaur

Oops, I just replied in another thread before I noticed this one. Oh well, just to be safe I'll copy my post from the other thread here:

I'm against removing hypers from FCC. I'm a college student with a full time job and limited time to play, but I've played several characters into the 50s, 60s, and 80s. I know how to play my characters and what roles they have in different places, and if I don't know something I know to ask others. FCC leveling just allows me to skip the boring parts of the game that take up my time (which again is limited). Also I know that questing at that point becomes tedious and the rewards have diminishing returns. Besides, lets face it, grinding is boring. Kill x number of mobs here, travel to npc there... its boring. I don't mind it sometimes, but when you have limited time to play, forcing everyone to focus on one style of play (grinding) isn't really fair.

Besides, I've yet to have a character hit 100 and taking away hyper in fc will likely keep me from ever hitting that goal. I could have had my veno at 100 now but I took a break at my current level of 89 to farm some tt mats.

In short: not everyone is a power leveled noob, and fcc hyper leveling is fine for people who know what they're doing. And since I have limited time to play, don't force me to grind to 105.

Edit: Just to drive the idea home, I think the idea that too many people are power-leveled noobs is blown a bit out of proportion. While there are still some people who have a ways to go, I've actually had a lot better luck recently getting good groups in instances than I have had in previous years. If anything I think more people know what they are doing now, though there are always exceptions.

Apostasy - Raging Tide

What do people suggest to repopulate the maps from the beginner cities' areas up through morai? b:question

Without this answered... dying game will completely die. b:surrender

korallia

i think that if fc dosent have hyper from now on it will be fair that all the players that aquired lvl's with hyper just be deleveled and lose all xp the got from there .... that one i would love to see becuse i am sick of players saying no fc hyper and they are 100+.

Black_wolve - Sanctuary

The point is if this company wants to loose money be my guest .The game went to **** when people where power lving in fcc with hypers to begin with glitching boss for goons before banned accounts took place .

Way to many scamming players selling heads in there then kicking them out of squad i can read very well i see this a lot in world chat.FCC was something fun at one point they have those crafting things there are they used for anything now?or just for looks the mobs all dropped mats like lunar at one time it ws much differn't then.

I have to be very honest i will keep my account here with pwi but i will not not play the game much at all i went on a new game not made by this company and there is no fighting over anything on that game .Perfect world has went from perfect to unperfect in 4 years now there was no hypers no bh's nothing the (GM'S)gave the players what they wanted and now look at it the game went to hell .And to be frank on the matter this game has no point every one wants to be 105 every one wants hypers ,g16,pking this game has no story line behind it any more thank you very much "gm's" for allowing this to change from a good game to garbage.I spoke to the customer service i told them how i felt a lot of other players have agreed this game ment something back then before all the changes where made so the question remains fcc or no fcc that is the question?.

I say keep the molds out of warsong and stop the use of hypers in fcc this will fix a lot of problems .If they decide to keep molds in warsong i mention this many times i even wrote a letter to the china office on this is to make it so you can not put molds in to account stash there are way to many players using others to farm as soon as the molds drop those players auto take molds and leave with out asking who needs what and if they stop it where you can not put molds in to account stash this will be a great idea this will give others a chance to uptain a mold for there toon .

But if perfect world gives in to all the qqers then this game will only get worse in time and all the good players will leave and go to better mmo games.

Crixxix - Raging Tide

Originally Posted by Crixxix - Raging Tide View Post

Ah, sorry, didn't see that.
Bah, np... i miss stuff all the time... and we've been on good terms too much anyhow as of lately for even differences in opinions, no matter how heated, to really hold any hard feelings for too long... ill forgive you tomorrow
I agree that hypering FC needs to be level capped, but my vote is no due to the way that it would happen. Most likely, it would be changed immediately, which will make other issues arise. I vote putting level cap to 80 if they follow something like this.

What needs to happen in the short term is for it go back to how it was, and slowly wean players from it. Unfortunately, there is no way to wean players out of fc hypering. In the mean time, we need to see content updates which offer something new and exciting for people, such as an instance that is specifically for experience, but not as much as FC. As far as content, there is actually plenty except end game, with the exception of more PvP or bhs... they do need to obviously revive some of the content.

Other things we need is to see already existing low level quests give better rewards, and more support for low level people. It seems to me, that most of our content of late (not all) is focused on the higher level people, and little is done to encourage new players to stay. As has been mentioned numerous times, the starting zones and most areas of the map are completely dead, save the occasional alt. This is due to hyper - powerleveling, be it in fc or any other areas we may still yet to see emerge if they actually grow a pair and at least cap fc intentionally.

How awesome would it be to see a well done commercial advertising the next expansion of PWI, the greatest F2P game in the world? With all the money PWE makes off us, you'd think they would commercially advertise on television etc... but i think that would be a major mistake for them to do until the kinks are worked out... such as devoid of life beginner cities. To me, I couldn't envision a better moment in my gaming career. Best moment in my gaming career will be when I finally release my own game... that could be decades though if it ever happens... need to finish my "quantum gravity & higher dimensions subjects" book first to get money rolling in that direction at all though... been highly unmotivated, and this game does not help But in order for them to do this, they need a bigger player base, not including all the alts. We need new people, and more money coming in to help this game grow. Hell, they might even be able to pay China in order to alter the contract to allow for them to make their own changes on our verison. Only problem is, this all takes money. Bigger player base directly = a game that does not appear dead on entrance, killing off the hyper powerleveling in fc would greatly be a move in that direction.

I vote to follow the guide lines above, and slowly take away hypering FC for people under lvl 80 Like i said, there is no way to do something like this slowly, except with how long most additions take to come out after first hearing about it... And i was saying level 85... its been years since i was in there questing on this toon... the level cap should simply be whatever the actual level to open fc is to begin with... someone stated it was 75... if thats the actual level one needs to be to open fc, then that realistically should be the cap. at that point, i do hope pwe adds some content to persuade 75-100's to go somewhere besides fc once in a while at least...

see ya around Crixxix

I whole heartedly agree with this Apost, the reason that I said they need to slowly wean people from FC, is because the moment they declare no more hypering in FC, as things currently are, the player base will drop dramatically. I think prices on most things will go up at this point, which is going to be a nightmare for any of us that are poor to begin with. At this point though, it would make those who stay start farming, questing, etc. During this time, a few TV commercials would go a long way to build a new player base, because I know a lot of people who never heard of this game. To be honest, the only people that I know that do play it, are people that I've introduced to the game.

We do need to start seeing some of the older content revamped, and perhaps a cool looking place for people to PK, as PK in SP has now been removed. Not a place for rewards, and no items drop, but a place where people can simply go to PK without having to worry about losing gear.

In the end, this game already has everything that it needs, it just needs to be fixed. Take low level DQ for instance, set the price back to normal, and implement some ways to catch botters. Perhaps asking for volunteers that would report any and all botters would fix issues like that. IMO, it's a lot better than a kick to the groin and nerfing them. I used to farm DQ all the time until they nerfed it, and I admit that I believe it's part of why it's hard to keep new players.

To sum it all up, hypering in FC needs the level 75 level cap. People need to stop QQ'ing for new content all the time, and learn to play the game. Not just part of it, all of it. To PWI: You've done a great job, and need to realize that this game already has everything it needs, we don't need new content, we need more people. Start making a 20 second TV commercial or something, get the word out. People will come, and along with it, money.

- Crix

WnbTank - Archosaur

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Okay, you're reaching the point where you're just starting to say far too much to be completely missing the point whilst doing so. It's very simple: Frost powerlevel is spammable, buyable and has no level or squad restrictions, making it hugely different from PV (and yes, vastly more popular) even if we were to believe your claim that PV exp = Frost exp, which frankly I don't.

So yes, I consider that cheating. Apparently, about 65% of the forum also considers it cheating. If you still "can't understand" why, there's not much more I can do for you. -_-;

And there was point when people thought sun circled earth, not the other way around. And with quite different percentages in favor of what was later proved wrong.

Still you dont even register I have massive experience in who buys FC xp rooms and its not consistent with what you say. We can argue my memory can be biased but I suspect it is still better source of data than assumptions you base on nothing. Then again I havent bothered in keeping statistics, too troublesome as I didnt see any point other than curiosity in creating them. Back in days I kept statistics regarding grinding spots while I was leveling my DW archer as I felt that information could be utilized fairly easily.

And no, 65% doesnt consider it cheating. 65% consider there are reasons why it should not be allowed/it should be restricted, not to forget forum community is only minority among game community.

I feel like if you dont learn your toon enough to not fail BH100/whatever in somewhat decent squad by the 75 levels most people take before starting FCs, you arent going to learn it with not FCing levels 75-100. And really, the ones who start FCing earlier are also biggest CSers = Their gear will carry them trough our endgame content, making their lack of skill irrelevant for other players.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Welcome to PWI, man. You want something fixed? You'd better be loud, you'd better be organized, and you'd better be persistent (and even then, there's a good chance it'll all fall on deaf ears). You want more ways to 105, well, keep up the pressure. The only thing anything ever gets done around here is through vocal and persistent pressure on the only sounding board we can access (namely, the CM)... which, admittedly, would be a lot easier if we didn't have to deal with all the shameless apologists and rationalizers. >_>

You said goons shouldnt of stayed despite the quality of "fix". I argued that for balance between players goons should of stayed or alternative way to level quickly to catch gooners should of been added. Only reason I said anything bout them was your tunnel vision bout the "fix".

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Again you miss my point, so I guess I have to spell it out for you.
R9S3 requires level 101.
We are talking about powerleveling newbies. Newbies do not have access to R9S3 gear. And those with R9S3 gear would not be able to get into PV with newbies in order to powerlevel them.
What part of this is hard to understand?

It was more of remark bout 100+ players having no real xp instance and how it doesnt change the fact FC was intended for level 75+ players. Overwhelming majority of FC xp room buyers are 75+ and they are doing instance that was intended for their levels. Sure, skipping low xp reward parts can be seen as "not earning the xp" but so what?

Your argument relies on delusion of people powerleveling toons under that with paid service. Level 1 toons have been in FC, those just have been alts of players who are already level 100+ and argument of "FC baby noob" doesnt really hold with such players. They already have good idea what each class can do before playing more than one of them at endgame.

My point is, content level 75- already has fair amount of squad play and is only diminished with new solo quests that are late additions for it. If that content doesnt teach you your class well enough to not be god awful in BH100s then doing PV instead of FC wont change it.

Taking FC out as an option to powerlevel will only change the way people are going to powerlevel till you rampage long enough around with the ban/nerfhammer for people to be unable to find such options any longer. I see no reason in that not being possible but I feel like there would be fair amount of consequences that arent related to fixing powerleveling. I rather not see what kind off mess banning powerleveling completely would create as everything affect everything.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*headdesk* Okay, one last stab at this... what's your point here? That bad players exist whether or not they're powerleveled? Common knowledge. Doesn't dispel any of my other points.

And where you base your argument? In seeing bad players in game? And the point of bad players existing anyway isnt relevant? I thought most people saw problem of powerleveling in creating noobs, not in things you believe are problematic bout it.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What. The. Hell. Are. You. Talking. About.

I paraphrased a few common pro-powerlever arguments like twenty pages back and now I can't seem to say anything without you breaking out the word "strawman" where it doesn't belong. Honestly, what are you playing at here? I don't have to paraphrase a single thing if I've chosen a specific person to reply to. So which one of us are you calling a strawman and why?

Throw me a bone here. You're making absolutely zero sense.

Fine, lets point out why they are straw man arguments. I felt it was obvious enough to not elaborate.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Well, congratulations then, I think you've given me another reason not to play that game. Quick question, if this game is so terrible and stomping on your rights and everything... why are you here, and not there?

Is there really any reason to elaborate? I find the glitch, which is getting fixed, would of been ultimately unfair for everybody by taking away options w/o really affecting the issue it is argued to fix. Simply because I feel this way doesnt mean this game is "terrible and stomping my rights" nor does it mean I couldnt find PWI as a game more appealing than WoW.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Merging answer with below:

Nice framing, but purely dependent on the existing situation. The whole "don't ruin my fun" argument only barely holds up, and even then, only because that happens to be the status quo. If powerleveling were never heard of and you were here advocating a brand-spanking new way to level at at least 10x the speed of any existing method, you'd be laughed out of the room. It's all about the context. People QQ over losing it because they've been spoiled by it.

So you want to know what you're forcing? How about forcing the entire game to accommodate your need for instant gratification in order to have fun? Or forcing the community to legitimize it? Again - I'm sure there's no shortage of pservers out there which offer your ideal brand of fun, so I'm at a loss as to why you feel the need to burden the official ones with it.

Regarding RL stuff... of course I can sympathize with that. Hell, it's not like I spend my life on this game. I play the game for maybe two hours a day except on weekends, and even then maybe 4-5 hours/day tops. I've still only got two 100+ characters out of the five I intend to get there (though the BM is close at 99.40). Does that mean I deserve 100 on five characters, because I have a life? Absolutely not. It means I prioritize RL over game, and of course my endgame character count and general wealth is going to reflect that. I'd rather live with that than trying to rationalize what I think I "deserve."

I cant remember advocating the creation of hypers and thus I wasnt advocating "a brand-spanking new way to level at at least 10x the speed of any existing method". I have advocated super hypers for 101+ players to fix issues gooning created but that really is completely different matter.

I am not forcing anybody to powerlevel, I am saying they should be allowed to do so if they want to. I am defending the right to choose while you are advocating restrictions. I find it pretty damn funny you blame me of forcing others to accommodate my needs, like seriously, did you even think when you wrote it?

I never said I deserved lvl 80 archer on all servers just because I leveled one there. I questioned what is the point of forcing me to go trough the same old content again just because Ive been missing my archer? Really, I would suspect the grinding, zhenning and gammas I did on DW have given me more than enough experience to not fail as level 100 archer. Which is the main concern why people argue for restricting hypers, not some "earning your level" you are strongly advocating.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Would you have preferred I go over 30+ pages with a fine-toothed comb and quote every redundant argument? Aside from the final one which I stylized in all caps, they seem pretty on-target to me. *shrug*

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

Straw man alert! xD

There are quite a few more approaches than making straw mans out of oppositions arguments or going trough 30 pages and answering to all of them. Or not, what I know, I am only a powerleveler after all.

And really, those capsed "arguments" were textbook straw mans.

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I never said you asked me to powerlevel. I said that you're expecting the whole game to conform to your personal idea of fun, and for the entire community to legitimize it. If you're just going to keep glazing over my points and not actually answering them, I'm gonna start wondering which one of us is the supposed strawman here. -_-

Actually, hypering is allowed anywhere in the game right now, period. You can loathe me for it all you want, I dont care, its your personal choice. But how I can ask something, which already is, to be legitimized? I have quite clearly stated you can level however you want, its none of my business. You are the one who is trying to restrict something and "expecting whole game to conform to your personal idea of fun".

Edit: To elaborate this point as its bit unclear. It means both there isnt restrictions in using hypers after glitch has been fixed and the lack of rules which would forbid hypering in some manner.

Salari - Raging Tide

I still say add an option to revert FCC back to its original design. Not being able to hyper there is no big deal. There are plenty of other ways to power level at the same pace.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear

WnbTank - Archosaur wrote: »

And there was point when people thought sun circled earth, not the other way around. And with quite different percentages in favor of what was later proved wrong.

Still you dont even register I have massive experience in who buys FC xp rooms and its not consistent with what you say. We can argue my memory can be biased but I suspect it is still better source of data than assumptions you base on nothing. Then again I havent bothered in keeping statistics, too troublesome as I didnt see any point other than curiosity in creating them. Back in days I kept statistics regarding grinding spots while I was leveling my DW archer as I felt that information could be utilized fairly easily.

And no, 65% doesnt consider it cheating. 65% consider there are reasons why it should not be allowed/it should be restricted, not to forget forum community is only minority among game community.

I feel like if you dont learn your toon enough to not fail BH100/whatever in somewhat decent squad by the 75 levels most people take before starting FCs, you arent going to learn it with not FCing levels 75-100. And really, the ones who start FCing earlier are also biggest CSers = Their gear will carry them trough our endgame content, making their lack of skill irrelevant for other players.



You said goons shouldnt of stayed despite the quality of "fix". I argued that for balance between players goons should of stayed or alternative way to level quickly to catch gooners should of been added. Only reason I said anything bout them was your tunnel vision bout the "fix".




It was more of remark bout 100+ players having no real xp instance and how it doesnt change the fact FC was intended for level 75+ players. Overwhelming majority of FC xp room buyers are 75+ and they are doing instance that was intended for their levels. Sure, skipping low xp reward parts can be seen as "not earning the xp" but so what?

Your argument relies on delusion of people powerleveling toons under that with paid service. Level 1 toons have been in FC, those just have been alts of players who are already level 100+ and argument of "FC baby noob" doesnt really hold with such players. They already have good idea what each class can do before playing more than one of them at endgame.

My point is, content level 75- already has fair amount of squad play and is only diminished with new solo quests that are late additions for it. If that content doesnt teach you your class well enough to not be god awful in BH100s then doing PV instead of FC wont change it.

Taking FC out as an option to powerlevel will only change the way people are going to powerlevel till you rampage long enough around with the ban/nerfhammer for people to be unable to find such options any longer. I see no reason in that not being possible but I feel like there would be fair amount of consequences that arent related to fixing powerleveling. I rather not see what kind off mess banning powerleveling completely would create as everything affect everything.




And where you base your argument? In seeing bad players in game? And the point of bad players existing anyway isnt relevant? I thought most people saw problem of powerleveling in creating noobs, not in things you believe are problematic bout it.



Fine, lets point out why they are straw man arguments. I felt it was obvious enough to not elaborate.



Is there really any reason to elaborate? I find the glitch, which is getting fixed, would of been ultimately unfair for everybody by taking away options w/o really affecting the issue it is argued to fix. Simply because I feel this way doesnt mean this game is "terrible and stomping my rights" nor does it mean I couldnt find PWI as a game more appealing than WoW.



I cant remember advocating the creation of hypers and thus I wasnt advocating "a brand-spanking new way to level at at least 10x the speed of any existing method". I have advocated super hypers for 101+ players to fix issues gooning created but that really is completely different matter.

I am not forcing anybody to powerlevel, I am saying they should be allowed to do so if they want to. I am defending the right to choose while you are advocating restrictions. I find it pretty damn funny you blame me of forcing others to accommodate my needs, like seriously, did you even think when you wrote it?

I never said I deserved lvl 80 archer on all servers just because I leveled one there. I questioned what is the point of forcing me to go trough the same old content again just because Ive been missing my archer? Really, I would suspect the grinding, zhenning and gammas I did on DW have given me more than enough experience to not fail as level 100 archer. Which is the main concern why people argue for restricting hypers, not some "earning your level" you are strongly advocating.





And really, those capsed "arguments" were textbook straw mans.




Actually, hypering is allowed anywhere in the game right now, period. You can loathe me for it all you want, I dont care, its your personal choice. But how I can ask something, which already is, to be legitimized? I have quite clearly stated you can level however you want, its none of my business. You are the one who is trying to restrict something and "expecting whole game to conform to your personal idea of fun".

Edit: To elaborate this point as its bit unclear. It means both there isnt restrictions in using hypers after glitch has been fixed and the lack of rules which would forbid hypering in some manner.

somehow i get the feeling that you need to take a chill pill here pal. the whole saying that your trying to get across is this "idc how you lvl just as long as it doesnt interfer with my own personal fun." plus how are we who are against powerlvling as you would call it "expecting the whole game to conform to your personal idea of fun by restricting something" heres the realistic side of it. no one is pulling your arm or twisting your leg to play it their way, but when your idea of personal fun crosses the line to where it affects the vast majority of us players who dont like, want or even are getting pushed into something that would make total fails, idiots and ignorant fools of ourselves is highly unethical. the affects of powerlvling has done nothing more than make ppl lazy and not fit to be trusted in squads. it not only has it affected squad play and the low to mid lvl content, it also has affected each individual player as well. it shows players that they can have any lvl gear and it will be fine.

sry to disappoint you but each individual has to and will have to make some sort of contribution in a squad whether it be in a bh run or some high lvl instance like warsong, lunar, tt or nirvana. so it seems like your not making much of a solid defense case against limiting FF or hypers in this matter. to me and possibly many other ppl on this forum is that all you are is a barb with alot of hot air and the only way to get rid of that hot air is to release it here. making sense is one thing but making nonsense is another and i do believe your making nonsense bout this heated discussion. (not to mention someone who is totally clueless) plus im bettin that all your doing is flapping your gums around cause of something that you want instant gratification for. if you want to defend powerlvling by claiming its ok when realistically its not, then id say for ya to look at a book and then tell me if by skipping chapters, pages and scenes is what makes a book interesting, exciting and fun to read. im thinking the answer is no, why is that? its cause reading a book is the same thing as going along a storyline which is exactly what pwi is. so if you think that skipping chapters in a book just to get to the end is fun, try again. its not fun at all, the end is the end no matter how many ways you might look at it. the fun of reading a book is that from the start it peeks the interest of the reader and it makes him want to keep reading it to see how the problem gets resolved in the end.

you dont start at the beginning and then skip over all the fun and exciting parts of the story just to see how it ends, that would be like saying "once upon a time and then they lived happily ever after." the end of the game is not the beginning but rather the end of it period. no matter how you may justify it, the end of a storyline, game or book will always be THE END. so if you want to keep on claiming that powerlvling is good and all that blah blah nonsense than by all means keep speaking it out. But by doing so, you will one of the players who will be causing a downhill cliff of destruction of pwi if the powerlvling was to continue the way it is without any possible ways of stopping it. we are not taking away everyone's fun, but rather trying to prevent something that may have deep consequences toward PWE in the process. Id say be a part of the solution stead of being part of the problem.

Fussible - Heavens Tear

SweetieBot give 10 points to Teseanna - Heavens Tear for being pro-questing!

SweetieBot - Lothranis

Fussible - Heavens Tear wrote: »

SweetieBot give 10 points to Teseanna - Heavens Tear for being pro-questing!

Fussible - Heavens Tear awards 10 points to Teseanna - Heavens Tear!
Teseanna - Heavens Tear now has a total of 110 points and is in 5th place.
Fussible - Heavens Tear can still award another 10 points today.

Check this thread for the current high scores and to learn how to award points to others.

CreamDrinker - Dreamweaver

lvl restricted 85+ make them learn how to play before hyper lvling to 101 and cashing r9 and suiciding on every squad

Teseanna - Heavens Tear

stop them plvl'ers!!!

CreamDrinker - Dreamweaver

oh and for those who argue that noobs should be allowed to lvl from 1 to 100 if they choose blah blah blah all I gotta say is fash has a minimum lvl limit. If you can't figure out on your own why that matters then no explanation I give will adequately explain that statement to you.

deepblak

Ok since we are discussing FC why not go like this:

Put FC lv restricted 85+ ( since from 85 you can open it anyway ) and revert it back to a farming dungeon. That way while the players lv hypering FC they will farm the FC green/gold gear and if you actually do a small gear upgrade like you did to WS for lv 100 we'll have less TT90/Morai 95 nubs walking around in BH and less QQ/drama/rejection for them. Seriously all the gear req. for Bh started because of them, I know it's hard to get TT99 gear ( Nirvana is easy now so no QQ-ing even for those who can't do nw ); so if they can lv AND farm a decent gear equal with G13 for example or TT99 everyone will be happy and less QQ and drama.

While I said that for FC why not make some changes for Nirvy too? for the moment I'm still thinking of ways to allow all classes to come farm and not just aps it away like it used to but here is a bit tricky so better think it out before doing something. But would be nice to get stuff from Nirvana like in what we get in ws/LG and why not NW. for those who can't do NW because of timezone ( pls don't start with the buzz off you can't nw change server bull. ) It's a pity to let the instance die =/

Ok end of my rumbling b:cute not sure anyone will actually read this but hey I tried b:surrender anyway bubye b:bye

qupidyn

They are 59 pages of disappointment, but peoples lessen me now. I'm a player witch play at the begin on Perfect World, not even then was name International(Malaysia version), so I played over 5 years in this game or more..so I think mine vote is very important. I know mine English is not perfect, but I try to tell you what i think about this whole thing.

PW at the beginning was a very difficult to play game. They was no hypers no reputation sale in boutique, just fashions and mounts/fly mounts nothing else. In this times all players was so happy to EARN anything, that was a miracle to have a gold mold from FB bosses. Gold was cost 100k each and all was happy with that. PW got so much players..50x more then now or even more, but in time come out other version PWI, I was so excited and I have quick install it. Finally low lag, ping 300(In this times was not EU servers). PvE servers ..wow cool, finally no one PK me after lvl30 in game. I have so much hope and trust, so i delete old PW for good.

PWI boutique was full of trash, I was a bit surprised to see "orb sales", well to easy to refine gear on lvl +5/+6 well..nvm. I have understand that game need more money so I have accept this. I was a bit shocked, no GM 24/7 on-line in game, like in old PW was. Few players saying bad words using bugs, bots etc. That was a bit feel of "wild server". Nvm I have forgive this to server, maybe GM got no money to be in game or just it is so.

Mine first character was a Cleric, proud, claver and beauty like always. In time came to game a anniversary packs, that was a 1st step to leave me from game, so I did. Gold prices from 300-400k was..1.400-1.500 after this useless add on of packs to game. It completely ruin our economy in our game. More then 20% of players leave the game for good, with mine 7 friends and good guild too b:cry. I was depressive, huge rage on world chat, red Spam of packs on WC, just a nightmare.

After some weeks, DQ items was nerfed and we got almost no money in game. b:shocked
For luck, we have still quests and good veno grinding drop from mobs +TTs. So I have survived this (I don't know how to name it, tragedy?). More and more players leave so mine best friend..and me too...

After 1 year, I was back..Nice, I was in shock, so much added to boutique, players can be only found on cites...Reputation and Hypers Sale. OMG b:cry b:surrender so started FC runs and no one care about game!. "Who cares about quests?. It's boring". I was feel like a foul there. I was spend so much time to get hight lvl, and now?. Even lvl1 can do FC runs with hypers x12(for 1 hour) and be max lvl in 2 days of FC runs b:sad..Game->uninstall i was so raged, i can tell.

After..more then year, i was back to game. I have no more characters to play so i did veno for grinding. WHAT?. DQ items cost 1 coin?. How could i get a money in game, how?.
I just love to grind and spend 5-7 hours in week(1-2 hour in day), It's relax me to grind!. But now?. OMG...
I can understand that because of bots in game (I was saw max 4 times in whole mine life in game), why don't increase a coin reward from quests?. It can be so cool to get a 1 million coins from purple or blue quests etc. Bots can't do this, or bot must playing a game like a normal players to get this money, I'm right?.

Present(now), i refuse to do any quest in game. I have done this game more then every others do, but i never give up to playing, even i have deleted mine 100+ characters in game. Now if i hear that FC runs are blocked i was so happy..tasty of victory. Now i can found on world chat: BH29/BH39 etc...so even BH69 and 79 was seen, that's mean PWI is a bit back. Peoples can finally do it in team!, no more egoistic solo FC runs and max lvl in few days, no more!.

After all this hate, disappointed and rage...PWI i LOVE you and i'll play even to server end.
I'm 100% free to play player, I have never sped a penny for this game and i have some hope, that this FC was a 1st step to justice i hope some day come justice for this hypers and reputation sale too .

Your best player, witch got just low lvl in game now, but still happy:

qupidyn

Eoria - Harshlands

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

if you want to defend powerlvling by claiming its ok when realistically its not, then id say for ya to look at a book and then tell me if by skipping chapters, pages and scenes is what makes a book interesting, exciting and fun to read. im thinking the answer is no, why is that? its cause reading a book is the same thing as going along a storyline which is exactly what pwi is. so if you think that skipping chapters in a book just to get to the end is fun, try again. its not fun at all, the end is the end no matter how many ways you might look at it. the fun of reading a book is that from the start it peeks the interest of the reader and it makes him want to keep reading it to see how the problem gets resolved in the end.

This is the problem. I've read this book multiple times. There's some parts I really enjoy reading and others I just hate and skip over. Does this make me a bad reader for wanting to skip over those parts and just reread the ones I really liked? No, lol. And just like the parts of the book I don't enjoy, I don't want to do the same ****ing quests over and over again on alts when I already know what happens and that the reward isn't anything as good as the Goshiki questline or the Morai questlines or, hell, even the new veno/barb form questline.

Until they make a bunch of quests like that as well as implement some kind of decent PVP for lower levels (whether it be through event or instance, idc), I want the option to basically skip over to end-game that leveling in FC provides. The PVE is ****ing abysmal because it has very little reward before end-game outside of a few certain quests and there's like no PVP content until end game outside of like PVP tournament on Thursdays and even then, people usually don't even kill people until they have to in there. NW? Lets be real, it's just not fun at all to just get constantly one-shot by people that out-gear and out-level you by 10 or 40 levels.

So far every single argument I've seen from the people who want to keep hypers out of FC boils down to:

1. "wah people can level faster than i could back in the day" (It's called innovation and new ideas. Get used it or just quit right now. Actually, quit like three or four years ago.)
2. "wah i don't know how to use the kick from squad or leave squad buttons" (Your own fault.)
3. "wah i don't want to explain how to do things to people so maybe they'll improve" (Once again, your own fault. Making them do quests isn't going to magically bootstrap them into awesome players. People taking their time to help and explain things to them is what will make them improve.)
4. "wah but i want to make them suffer through all the same **** i did to level up" (Well, aren't you just a little bag of sunshine...)
5. "wah the world map is unpopulated" (Because the quests, outside of a very few of them, aren't actually worth doing, derp... Especially a second or third time.)
6. "wah everyone should be forced to level alts the hard way just like me because i don't find early- and mid-game boring" (And what if they do though? You're not them. Why are you forcing your beliefs on them? If you re-enable hypers in FC, what does it hurt?)

WnbTank - Archosaur

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

somehow i get the feeling that you need to take a chill pill here pal. the whole saying that your trying to get across is this "idc how you lvl just as long as it doesnt interfer with my own personal fun." plus how are we who are against powerlvling as you would call it "expecting the whole game to conform to your personal idea of fun by restricting something" heres the realistic side of it. no one is pulling your arm or twisting your leg to play it their way, but when your idea of personal fun crosses the line to where it affects the vast majority of us players who dont like, want or even are getting pushed into something that would make total fails, idiots and ignorant fools of ourselves is highly unethical. the affects of powerlvling has done nothing more than make ppl lazy and not fit to be trusted in squads. it not only has it affected squad play and the low to mid lvl content, it also has affected each individual player as well. it shows players that they can have any lvl gear and it will be fine.

I have already explained on page 35 explained why "FC noobs" are nothing but scapegoat for not admitting oneself is only average player or even under that when it comes to skill level. I have trouble understanding how noobs creating squadwipes are even possible with how geared average players are these days. I mean, the ones, which are noobs and not simply wiping you guys intentionally/were dropped on their head as a baby.

I would also like to point out that calling people noobs after mistakes isnt really the way to start if you want them to listen to you. And really, the only ones who live only in FC and do nothing for their levels are heavy CSers and due having gear most people can only dream of, their skill level really isnt that important for PvE. Exception being metal mage clerics who doesnt think healing fits his or her status - But those would exist either way. Nothing wrong in "metal mages" as good ones offer more than good support clerics as they both DD and heal.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sry to disappoint you but each individual has to and will have to make some sort of contribution in a squad whether it be in a bh run or some high lvl instance like warsong, lunar, tt or nirvana. so it seems like your not making much of a solid defense case against limiting FF or hypers in this matter. to me and possibly many other ppl on this forum is that all you are is a barb with alot of hot air and the only way to get rid of that hot air is to release it here. making sense is one thing but making nonsense is another and i do believe your making nonsense bout this heated discussion. (not to mention someone who is totally clueless) plus im bettin that all your doing is flapping your gums around cause of something that you want instant gratification for. if you want to defend powerlvling by claiming its ok when realistically its not, then id say for ya to look at a book and then tell me if by skipping chapters, pages and scenes is what makes a book interesting, exciting and fun to read. im thinking the answer is no, why is that? its cause reading a book is the same thing as going along a storyline which is exactly what pwi is. so if you think that skipping chapters in a book just to get to the end is fun, try again. its not fun at all, the end is the end no matter how many ways you might look at it. the fun of reading a book is that from the start it peeks the interest of the reader and it makes him want to keep reading it to see how the problem gets resolved in the end.

I love you took example of books. I have always loved fantasy series called Wheel of Time, which ended this January with release of book 14. I have read each book fully 5+ times `cept for the newest one, should prolly re-read it for the first time this summer. Anyways I do skip chapters I dont like instead of reading them for god knows how many times. At times I read books following 1 PoV in how he/she journeys trough books. But ultimately yes, if I already have read the same chapters earlier quite many times, why should I read them again if I can skip them w/o losing anything? Oh yeah, I didnt earn the right to read next chapters =(.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you dont start at the beginning and then skip over all the fun and exciting parts of the story just to see how it ends, that would be like saying "once upon a time and then they lived happily ever after." the end of the game is not the beginning but rather the end of it period. no matter how you may justify it, the end of a storyline, game or book will always be THE END. so if you want to keep on claiming that powerlvling is good and all that blah blah nonsense than by all means keep speaking it out. But by doing so, you will one of the players who will be causing a downhill cliff of destruction of pwi if the powerlvling was to continue the way it is without any possible ways of stopping it. we are not taking away everyone's fun, but rather trying to prevent something that may have deep consequences toward PWE in the process. Id say be a part of the solution stead of being part of the problem.

I have tried to explain how level restriction wont have any real impact, people under level 75 doing FC are a small minority. This is outside alts of people with 100+ mains. The other ones paying for powerleveling as under level 75 tend to be those who end up R9 or nowdays R999 +12ing themselves and one has to have some real issues to create squadwipes with such gear.

Only ones this change would truly affect is people who cant be bothered to go trough quests/etc. and just drag their alt to FC on lvl 1. And those players really arent the unskilled idiots causing problems in squads.

I wont be part in restricting options when restriction in question really isnt going to change anything relevant. You say powerleveling creates noobs, I disagree with reasons why PWI has such decline in average skill level. But even if you were right, simply changing FC wont stop powerleveling. In order for it to stop, game has to be changed in radical manners till players cant think of another powerlevel option. I would really love to see somebody do it w/o burning down the whole neighborhood so to say.

Edit: Promoting questing/open map play is a lot easier thing to do though if that is something, which has some value to some.

Born_Free - Lost City

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Until they make a bunch of quests like that as well as implement some kind of decent PVP for lower levels (whether it be through event or instance, idc), I want the option to basically skip over to end-game that leveling in FC provides. The PVE is ****ing abysmal because it has very little reward before end-game outside of a few certain quests and there's like no PVP content until end game outside of like PVP tournament on Thursdays and even then, people usually don't even kill people until they have to in there. NW? Lets be real, it's just not fun at all to just get constantly one-shot by people that out-gear and out-level you by 10 or 40 levels.

It would help, if there were no snooty, constantly reincarnated, ridiculously geared factions running around one-shotting anything with a white name that steps outside a safe zone.

But you know, despite Zulu's emergence during the Raging Tide expansion, there WAS such a thing as low level PvP when I was first playing this game as my new main. I had to wade through that sh*t--Shattered Jade Shore, Swamp of the Wraiths, Hidden Orchard, Secret Passage, Immolation Camp--It wasn't pretty, it wasn't easy....

But the reason there WAS PvP was because there were lots and lots of people actually PLAYING the game. You know, questing and BHing and sh*t. Now my alt can sit outside a SZ for hours killing mobs, and never be paranoid of a green dot approaching on minimap because....

....there are no green dots. With severe gear imbalance, less meaning behind actually hitting 100, more difficulty getting people to help you out because everybody's FCing, and a general lack of give-a-***** from PWE.....
What exactly are they trying to do to get new members to play this game?

Nothing. They're just trying to hold onto the people who pay them, for however long they can keep people like....oh....Infamous....interested.

Which, for the umpteenth time, makes ZERO sense, when you can get more money from gathering more new players and actually keeping a larger population interested in your game.


As far as keeping Hypers out of FC? It punishes people who actually DID work to get to the 75+ level to get into FC in the first place. It's not fair to them at all, and it just makes leveling an even BIGGER pain in the ****, and keeping MORE people from playing the game because it's no longer appealing to them.

Level cap it. End of story. If more people play the game outside of FC, maybe they'll see just how much of a limp noodle it really is.

Je////y - Archosaur43

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

We already know you're a special snowflake so whatevs.


Anyway, no. It's unfair to new players and to people who want to level an alt for whatever reason. idc about people sucking at their chars because they've never really used it. That's their problem, not mine.

it is your problem when you go to do bh's or whatever and get a group full of unskilled fc babies that dont know the most basic things about their charachter and cause a squad wipe because they dont have the skill required to properly play their charachter b:chuckle

itgarth

lvl 80+

thaap

Bloodstains - Dreamweaver wrote: »

its very easy to get to 85 without the use of FC. easily obtainable in under 1 month of playing. (even easier now with reflection, new quests from mr.jones, BH, oracles, divines, etc.)

I think is not fair, because all server got 100+ with fc and pwi is only thinking about this now? After 3 years? I'm not agree. b:surrender

Sinirah - Raging Tide

Je////y - Archosaur wrote: »

it is your problem when you go to do bh's or whatever and get a group full of unskilled fc babies that dont know the most basic things about their charachter and cause a squad wipe because they dont have the skill required to properly play their charachter b:chuckle

That's why you have your faction and friends. Unless your faction's full of plevelers aswell. O.o
I also agree with Eoria.

koksking

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

If 10 people join today, and 8 of them quit because they couldn't find anyone to quest with/talk to etc, while 2 of them swipe their credit card to hyper, then we gain 2 players.

If 10 people join today, and only 1 of them quit becasue they just plain don't like it. The other 7 didn't quit because they have people to talk to, then maybe 4 people will swipe their credit card at level 75. Since some people won't put money into a supposed to be f2p game they aren't sure they will like at endgame since they didn't like starter game. Since 9 stayed instead of only 2, you also increase the likelihood that one of them will bring their friend into the game. Impressing people at the start of the game is a very important aspect of gaming, and whether or not a game impresses someone at the start has a direct correlation to whether they continue to play.

That's all games too. That's why video game companies do their best to make the intros captivating in single player games as well. I wish I could find the extra credits video that explained this better than I just did. xD But I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

+1

Thats True Lvl Restricted is the best 85+ but only 85+, means that only players if that lvl can enter FC and not any alts with Lvl 1 or 30-40.

Its easy to get Lvl 85 with Quests Bhs Zen PV....

juggalotiny

in the end no matter what we say or do its what will make pwi more money that will happen. Its all about the all mighty dollar. This is and always will be pay to win in pwi. another useless instance just like vana. After nw came out it made vana not worth running. I rember when the cannys were worth more then the gem drops outa chest. But it dont make pwi money anymore. With the flood of vana gear it drives more to spend the money to get r9. Yay for the Dollar

CJD - Heavens Tear

Levantica - Raging Tide wrote: »

How about remove the T3 weapons from Warsong because I already have full T3 and i dont need. Is same thing as lvl 100+ players vote for FC.....If they dont need anymore they sure vote for yes. I vote to remove T3 weapons and i vote to in Warsong stop people from making mobless run and bosses be imun to dmg if they dont kill all pavilion. How about that, fair enough? Just because you people dont need FC anymore after lvling 40 characters, dont mean that other dont need either.
I vote for NO WAY or LVL 85+ the best choice.

I see your point of view, but it doesn't add up a bit. level 100+ players do have alts that maybe lower than level 85, for an instance I have two toons which are still below level 85. So if there be a level restriction for FC then players who are already 100+ may have low level toons and they would also have to do quests, CS, WQ, BH, PV ,Oracle etc ...

I believe it is good to add a level restriction to FC,

1. To keep players who are hyper leveled and do not know much about there toon particulars.

b:cold In a FC run a 98 BM said in squad that HF is useless coz there were 2 100+ players in squad! get the point ?

2. People will actually go back to questing hopefully to enjoy the game rather than hyper leveling, get R9, go warsong for S3 and QQ at skilled players :P

In my small mind this is what I vote for,

Make a level restriction to enter FC but make it 75+ just as it is there to Open FC. b:victoryb:flower