PVP in Secret Passage

Jeremied - Sanctuary · November 2012

Krisnda wrote: »

This.

And hey! you stole my red -_-.

b:surrender Don't worry, I just borrowed it, the red gets peoples attention better.

Takeva - Heavens Tear · November 2012

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

b:sweat I officially give up. This is my last try.

The GMs did not want this change either. They did not know until they tested the patch. They cannot change it. Only the devs in China can. I don't think this is permanent. The rules are most likely temporary until this can be reverted.

The CN version of secret passage is ALWAYS pvp enabled, they like it like that over there. We get patches that are basically copypasta from CN, and when there's a LOT of new content that they have to make sure is mostly translated and works correctly, things like making sure our SP isn't pvp enabled slip under the radar and by the time they send it over they're already working on new things.

b:bye

Yes, pretty sure most people get that part.

The part I don't get is.... *drumroll*

Why is it allowed? Would get less tickets because people would be like, "Oh noes! Datz bannable!"

It's allowed, but no harassing anyone? Numero Uno: There are a lot of childish people in this game. Either the ones who just don't care and will kill you, if you like it or not. Or the ones who get butthurt because they died, even when they are OK with pking (as long as they win). And then people get killed by "accident".

Number Two: A picture is worth a thousand words. Yea... right...
Anyone can fake a screen shot now a days. All you have to do is scroll up to the parts that seem incriminating. Boom! Banned! If tickets are being read that is.

Why keep allowing it every time the changes are reversed? We have these threads with people complaining about it. I don't remember these threads popping up when it was bannable? Or continuing for this long.
And I'm starting to think PW really doesn't want any new players. If I was low level going into SP and get killed because of another player, and I'm suppose to be in a PVE server, I'd probably quit and move on.

Jeremied - Sanctuary · November 2012

Takeva - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yes, pretty sure most people get that part.

The part I don't get is.... *drumroll*

Why is it allowed? Would get less tickets because people would be like, "Oh noes! Datz bannable!"

It's allowed, but no harassing anyone? Numero Uno: There are a lot of childish people in this game. Either the ones who just don't care and will kill you, if you like it or not. Or the ones who get butthurt because they died, even when they are OK with pking (as long as they win). And then people get killed by "accident".

Number Two: A picture is worth a thousand words. Yea... right...
Anyone can fake a screen shot now a days. All you have to do is scroll up to the parts that seem incriminating. Boom! Banned! If tickets are being read that is.

Why keep allowing it every time the changes are reversed? We have these threads with people complaining about it. I don't remember these threads popping up when it was bannable? Or continuing for this long.
And I'm starting to think PW really doesn't want any new players. If I was low level going into SP and get killed because of another player, and I'm suppose to be in a PVE server, I'd probably quit and move on.

Edit: Also, I really don't think most people understand what I said in my last post like you said. You might, but the majority of them blame the GMs for changing it in the first place.

This is the 3rd time this has happened. They're just trying all they can to sort out this chaos while they wait on the revert patch. Since the FIRST two times they tried banning it and then allowing it and neither worked, they're trying something in between.

First time: Completely bannable, said it will be reverted eventually. Didn't work. People mad. Was reverted. People happy.

Second time: Tried to allow it completely this time, since outright banning it last time didn't work, said it will be reverted eventually. Didn't work. People mad. Was reverted. People happy.

This time: Allowed, but with strict rules and bans. Said it will be reverted in a future patch. People still mad.

Takeva - Heavens Tear · November 2012

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

This is the 3rd time this has happened. They're just trying all they can to sort out this chaos while they wait on the revert patch. Since the FIRST two times they tried banning it and then allowing it and neither worked, they're trying something in between.

First time: Completely bannable, said it will be reverted eventually. Didn't work. People mad. Was reverted. People happy.

Second time: Tried to allow it completely this time, since outright banning it last time didn't work, said it will be reverted eventually. Didn't work. People mad. Was reverted. People happy.

This time: Allowed, but with strict rules and bans. Said it will be reverted in a future patch. SP is almost always empty since the rules were made. People still mad.

Oooh? Wow. SP is empty?!?!

To be honest, I don't think it has anything to do with the rules. Weren't these rules here before? People just aren't pking anymore, is what I think. Only logging in for NW and/or TW. That's what I do anyway.

Why are people still complaining when nothing is really going on in SP?

GumyBear - Raging Tide · November 2012

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

This time: Allowed, but with strict rules and bans. Said it will be reverted in a future patch. SP is almost always empty since the rules were made. People still mad.

On the RT server its never empty, everytime I go in there its always full of people -_- I rather have it empty.

Murcas - Sanctuary · November 2012

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

Ohai Carebearz. I didn't see your hijacked QQ thread until just now because i was too busy having a blast in our awesome no dropping pvp instance.

May i just ask this, why U mad? D;

Are you trying to do your fb29? Can you not get to Quingzi? Let's be honest, nobody does FB's unless they're slow in the head. You can get to 5x in 2 frosts.

You all just want something to whine about.

First of all, who appointed you King of the Cosmos? I sure as hell didn't. And not all of us have the money to DO Frost since they, you know, nerfed the hell out of DQ and what not, and come the -beep- on man, they are in their 30's, pose no threat to you, and you're acting like a feminine product you shove up a chute. If that's not being a total tool, I don't know what is. Just listen to Jeremeid, he knows what the -bleep- he's talking about and where's that -bleep- -bleep- -bleep- censor?

NorseFox - Sanctuary · November 2012

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

Edit: Also, I really don't think most people understand what I said in my last post like you said. You might, but the majority of them blame the GMs for changing it in the first place.

This is the 3rd time this has happened. They're just trying all they can to sort out this chaos while they wait on the revert patch. Since the FIRST two times they tried banning it and then allowing it and neither worked, they're trying something in between.

First time: Completely bannable, said it will be reverted eventually. Didn't work. People mad. Was reverted. People happy.

Second time: Tried to allow it completely this time, since outright banning it last time didn't work, said it will be reverted eventually. Didn't work. People mad. Was reverted. People happy.

This time: Allowed, but with strict rules and bans. Said it will be reverted in a future patch. SP is almost always empty since the rules were made. People still mad.

I've been pk'd in Secret passage before, and I can say that I didn't have time to "Consent" to being Pk'd. However, I didn't rage quit. I make the point of turning on the notice that says you've been killed, screenshot it when I do die, and send in a ticket. The pk'r that killed me was banned for what seemed like a week or so.

This has been said many times before, but this development was NOT intended by the GM's. This is because of the CN server's policies regarding their Secret passage. I don't like the idea of having PKing being enabled in a quest area, but at least the GM's are attempting to keep things civil until they come to a decision regarding the status of the pking status.

And honestly, raging and hating on the GM's isn't going to get anything done any faster, since patches from CN need to be translated, applied, and tested. Sometimes little issues come up on big MMO's like PWI, but it's not worth flipping tables over. Just let the GM's do their jobs, and we'll see what they choose to do. Regardless of what is eventually done, at least the punishment of banning is potential. To me,being able to submit a ticket and potentially getting the offender banned for the offense is plenty enough to allow me to keep questing there without worrying.

Oishii - Dreamweaver · November 2012

Jeremied - Sanctuary wrote: »

This time: Allowed, but with strict rules and bans. Said it will be reverted in a future patch. SP is almost always empty since the rules were made. People still mad.

Its not empty on my server, and lowbies are having to avoid their quests in there so they dont get trambled. It's unfair, and it sucks that everytime there is an expansion, it messes up and it takes months for it to be fixed. Them letting people pk in there at all is only causing them more trouble with the tickets then if they would just perma-ban people who did it at all.

Point is, this is the third time, and by past experience they should know by now most players dont want pk in there and it should go back to the rule of no pk at all.

ViciousMinx - Dreamweaver · November 2012

v4liance wrote: »

Hey guys,

After speaking things over with the PWI Team, we've decided to allow PVP in Secret Passage.

That being said, please understand that there is still a zero tolerance policy for griefing. High level players killing low level players, or even just killing players who didn't consent to PVP - this is grounds for being banned.

I've spoken with the Support GMs, and they requested that I remind everyone to SCREENSHOT any incidents of PK griefing.

If someone kills you against your will, be sure that your screenshot is taken inside the Secret Passage, and includes the text that indicates who killed you. Then submit a ticket.

Griefers will be banned for a minimum of 3 days. Repeated offenses is grounds for permanent banning.

[Update]

Just so this is clear - we can and will modify this rule based on how players respond to the PVP in Secret Passage.

- Val

Big question is will there be a future patch to revert the SP back or no? Others have been hinting at it, but from this it sounds more like a done deal. Has the original plan changed now PVP in the SP is allowed? Just a bit of official clarity here will go along way.

Xainou - Sanctuary · November 2012

Oishii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Them letting people pk in there at all is only causing them more trouble with the tickets then if they would just perma-ban people who did it at all.

Really? A permaban for that? rofl

All I get from this thread is that people are always mad. b:chuckle

Euthymius - Heavens Tear · November 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Really? A permaban for that? rofl

All I get from this thread is that people are always mad. b:chuckle

^

Oishii - Dreamweaver · November 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

Really? A permaban for that? rofl

All I get from this thread is that people are always mad. b:chuckle

Yes, becuase the idiots who only get a week or 3-week ban come back and wear it like a badge of honor and only act more aholish because of the ban. If it was threatened with permaban, they would be a bit more hesitant to do it.

Pwi couldnt even permaban anyone for goonz though, so i doubt they would ever actually do it for SP. i dont think it should take someone three chances to figure out that killing people like that is wrong.

Takeva - Heavens Tear · November 2012

Oishii - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Yes, becuase the idiots who only get a week or 3-week ban come back and wear it like a badge of honor and only act more aholish because of the ban. If it was threatened with permaban, they would be a bit more hesitant to do it.

Pwi couldnt even permaban anyone for goonz though, so i doubt they would ever actually do it for SP. i dont think it should take someone three chances to figure out that killing people like that is wrong.

Permaban for killing someone in SP? That's a horrible idea. What about the people that go in there to clear the mobs to help a friend get through? They do an aoe, kills someone who happens to pass by, the person gets all upset and sends in a ticket.

Banned forever because they wanted to help someone? b:surrender

Aren't they trying this three strikes and you're out thing?

Xainou - Sanctuary · November 2012

I think both the PKers and the QQers need to grow a pair. b:chuckle

Kristina_t - Heavens Tear · November 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think both the PKers and the QQers need to grow a pair. b:chuckle

That's like asking what bridge you came from under. Pokes the furball with a stick... Get back under there you!!!

Xainou - Sanctuary · November 2012

Kristina_t - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That's like asking what bridge you came from under. Pokes the furball with a stick... Get back under there you!!!

Oh noes, I'm so offended.

Decus - Dreamweaver · November 2012

Xainou - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think both the PKers and the QQers need to grow a pair. b:chuckle

Yep. Agreed 100%.

ponyduck · November 2012

Takeva--Heaven's Tear wrote (excerpt):

. . . Only logging in for NW and/or TW. That's what I do anyway.

Why are people still complaining when nothing is really going on in SP?

Xainou--Sanctuary wrote (excerpt):

All I get from this thread is that people are always mad.

Yeh, it's only the newer/low-level players who are affected by this. Who cares what
they say? Who wants them anyway?

Again, another example of players' inability to see beyond the confines of self. "It
doesn't bother ME-ME-ME, so why should it bother anyone else?"
--although since new players are a virtually extinct species, I can understand the
confusion. Most of today's players have probably never even seen one, lol. And
since they themselves only spent about 2 hrs below level 60 and never saw outside
of frost, it's understandable they would be perplexed about game-play for the lower
levels.

Originally Posted by v4liance View Post

Hey guys,

After speaking things over with the PWI Team, we've decided to allow PVP in Secret Passage.

But ^^ this is what puzzles me.

Why are ppl saying that PVP in SP was something the GM's/PWI had no
control over? V4 very clearly states that it was discussed--yay or nay?--and they
DECIDED TO ALLOW it.

Takeva - Heavens Tear · November 2012

ponyduck wrote: »

Takeva--Heaven's Tear wrote (excerpt):

Xainou--Sanctuary wrote (excerpt):

Yeh, it's only the newer/low-level players who are affected by this. Who cares what
they say? Who wants them anyway?

Again, another example of players' inability to see beyond the confines of self. "It
doesn't bother ME-ME-ME, so why should it bother anyone else?"
--although since new players are a virtually extinct species, I can understand the
confusion. Most of today's players have probably never even seen one, lol. And
since they themselves only spent about 2 hrs below level 60 and never saw outside
of frost, it's understandable they would be perplexed about game-play for the lower
levels.

Originally Posted by v4liance View Post

But ^^ this is what puzzles me.

Why are ppl saying that PVP in SP was something the GM's/PWI had no
control over? V4 very clearly states that it was discussed--yay or nay?--and they
DECIDED TO ALLOW it.

Wow not reading everything I wrote and saying I don't care about lower level players? Read my post before that one. I'm for getting rid of PK in SP.

I was saying if what the guy I quoted, was saying is true, then why are people still complaining? Obviously something is still going on.

And Xainou is right. No matter what anyone does, someone will always be mad.

ovenusarmanio · November 2012

ponyduck wrote: »

Why are ppl saying that PVP in SP was something the GM's/PWI had no
control over? V4 very clearly states that it was discussed--yay or nay?--and they
DECIDED TO ALLOW it.

This is the time line of events, so it's less confusing.

11/13

GMs release the sirens of war expansion. They realize that SP has been reverted back to PvP and say that it will be fixed in a later patch. It has to be a later one because they get all their fixes from China.

genotypist wrote: »

Known Issues
- Secret Passage is once again forced-PvP. This will be reverted in a future patch.

Remember this is a feature of PWCN and actually also allows the PWIC arena to be used.

11/15

A player notices that the official announcements has not been updated since the last time SP was reverted and then subsequently fixed. And asks the GMs if PK in SP is allowed. I notice the thread and ask the GMs about it and they respond the same day that they are reviewing the rules. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1521591

11/19

After talking it over, GMs decide to try some new rules while SP is PK enabled. http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1524691 They update the rules to include two things.
1) People who have been respectful and have not killed low level players will not get banned simply because they want to have fun with their friends. Previously it was bannable merely for pving in there. Even though they did not grief anyone, aoe kill lowbies constantly, and neither did they exploit any glitches.

2) They put in place stricter and clearer penalties for those who grief others. They also update to make it clear that just because someone is high level, that doesn't mean you can attack them if they do not want to be attacked. They have a right to help their faction mates.

3) They let people know that they reserve the right to change the rule in the future if people cannot handle even these new rules.

Shortly after the announcement people got extremely upset because group 1 was left off the hook (even though they aren't hurting anyone) arguing that the new rules allow lowbies to PK. They do not. That wasn't allowed the last time PK was re-enabled in SP and it is not allowed now. Most of it is frustration that the patch reverted SP to PK, and people are under the impression that it is because of these new rules. But that is not the case, the rules were made because SP was reverted and not the other way around.

StellaNova - Raging Tide · November 2012

[QUOTE=Takeva

And Xainou is right. No matter what anyone does, someone will always be mad.[/QUOTE]

Agree to that one, but, ppl might consider that there pwe serves too, guess they are mostly for ppl who don't like or don't want to participate in the pk aspect of the game - kinda understand why ppl from pwe serves QQ a bit about.

On pvp servers is i understand it; Past lvl 30 outside city/safe zones you are game to be pk'ed if others want to. making pk in SP a bit hard to do much about up to the point where you can stone in to get Qingzi

ponyduck · November 2012

Thanks for your response, Venus.

But V4 did not start off his post saying "PWI & GM's are trying to
decide on rules for PVP in SP until it is fixed."

He said, "After speaking things over with the PWI Team,
we've decided to allow PVP in Secret Passage."

This just doesn't imply--it downright STATES that after discussion
whether to allow PVP in SP or not, they decided to allow it. As in,
"we have control which way it goes."

I understand all the stuff about China, their devs, the patches. I get
all that. But it comes down for me to that one statement. As I said
before, it doesn't merely imply, it outright states that the decision
was in the hands of PWI and the GM's. "We've decided to allow . . . ."

Now I personally don't believe that, and think v4 was merely toeing
the party line, trying to make an oversight NOT look like an oversight.
Things like this do tend to diminish credibility however.

Walpurga - Dreamweaver · November 2012

Got my BM's 39 culti done by asking someone to kill me in passage

b:avoid

no need to pk mode no loss of xp

<looking on the positive side of things

ovenusarmanio · November 2012

ponyduck wrote: »

Thanks for your response, Venus.

But V4 did not start off his post saying "PWI & GM's are trying to
decide on rules for PVP in SP until it is fixed."

He said, "After speaking things over with the PWI Team,
we've decided to allow PVP in Secret Passage."

This just doesn't imply--it downright STATES that after discussion
whether to allow PVP in SP or not, they decided to allow it. As in,
"we have control which way it goes."

I understand all the stuff about China, their devs, the patches. I get
all that. But it comes down for me to that one statement. As I said
before, it doesn't merely imply, it outright states that the decision
was in the hands of PWI and the GM's. "We've decided to allow . . . ."

Now I personally don't believe that, and think v4 was merely toeing
the party line, trying to make an oversight NOT look like an oversight.
Things like this do tend to diminish credibility however.

Decided to allow in response to the question "is it allowed right now?" I understand your frustration but please remember that context is important when understanding the meaning behind a person's words as well. The very first statement made by the GM shows that the reversion of SP was NOT intentional nor planned, otherwise it would not be a "known issue," and would not be listed the way it is in the patch notes.

condo2009 · November 2012

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

Decided to allow in response to the question "is it allowed right now?" I understand your frustration but please remember that context is important when understanding the meaning behind a person's words as well. The very first statement made by the GM shows that the reversion of SP was NOT intentional nor planned, otherwise it would not be a "known issue," and would not be listed the way it is in the patch notes.

the context is gm's decided not to change it. period. is not a discussion. it's a fact.

Klarise - Raging Tide · November 2012

there is a really easy solution if ppl want to pk instead of actually playing the game then perhaps those ppl should stay on the PvP servers and leave the gamers alone as ppl still have quests in the secret passage .IJS

Klarise - Raging Tide · November 2012

besides is almost impossible to do the screenshot inside at time of death since you r immediately ported to orchid temple. i have had at least 2 characters unconsentually pk'd in secret passage and while i don't lose possessions it takes my time and the time spent applying buffs and other such things

Euthymius - Heavens Tear · November 2012

Klarise - Raging Tide wrote: »

besides is almost impossible to do the screenshot inside at time of death since you r immediately ported to orchid temple. i have had at least 2 characters unconsentually pk'd in secret passage and while i don't lose possessions it takes my time and the time spent applying buffs and other such things

There's always the "You were killed by X" in the chat-log to screenshot...or if your damage log is on, "X deals Y damage"

Jeremied - Sanctuary · November 2012

condo2009 wrote: »

the context is gm's decided not to change it. period. is not a discussion. it's a fact.

The point you're constantly missing is that the GMs have no power to change it.

Considering the line mods have to the GM team, I'd be willing to bet they know more about the situation than you. Two mods have said that it will be reverted. We just have to wait for the devs in china to get their butts in gear and change the code.

Colum - Raging Tide · November 2012

I wonder did some guys clearly read first post... v4l also said repeated PKs will cause a perma ban. 3 griefs, if I am correct.

Had a funny situation yesterday in SP... Went through main hall with wizard... was going to get the painting from Quinzi place. Well, a small lvl archer attacked my 4x wiz I attacked back and a cleric helping him killed me. Bleh.

Can't send a ticket in that case I guess.

PVP in Secret Passage

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