Very UNFAIR rules for Magic Classes

Zankanto - Sanctuary · February 2012

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

P.S. @Zankanto - have you ever played any mmo? Do you seriously find it normal a 5aps char can solo an instance ten times faster than a full caster squad? Do you find it normal 5aps chars can kill bosses in just a few hits?

Name me one game in which endgame bosses die in 2hits to a class...it's a sign of a broken game. It's the same as if casters could do 5million damage per normal hit. Sure enough, it isn't classified as a glitch, it's classified as the equivalent of entering a cheat code "show me the money".

It's broken and bad game design. But it's not a glitch. It worked exactly as intended, unfortunately. CC and catshops in caster are glitches. If people can say that one should be removed simply because it's a glitch, then remove all of them. Simple as that.

knightsdarksoul · February 2012

bearyflair wrote: »

The point is about how unfair the timed talismans are and how restricted we are in doing Caster Vana cuz of that. Us casters want the talismans to be untimed and stackable just like the keys are.

thats fine, make them untimed and stackable but remove casters option to collect normal keys. or make BH reward give an untimed token that allows ppl to trade it for either a normal key or a casters key but not both
ditto to RT npc 3 key quest

Zanryu - Lothranis · February 2012

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

get your facts straight son

To do a run under 20minutes you need seriously op squad. A squad with r8+7 and several R9s takes about 22minutes and that is if you have the right combination of classes.

The really really really really good caster nirvana squads can do a run in 15mins and I suppose a full r9+12 squad can do it even faster (that's just theorycrafting and numbers may or may not be true).

Average, and by average I mean ~r8+5 squad will do a caster nirvana in 25-30mins as stated already, if you happen to have a crappy squad with like 2clerics+1veno, add 5minutes to that because you sacrifice firepower, so the times I'm giving you are what you get if you make a proper combination of classes.

Price/quality ration is immeasurable for 5aps chars, stuff an aps char can do compared to a caster with twice the amount of money invested is a joke. So are we all supposed to reroll sins for pve? Is that what the game is supposed to be about? And don't QQ about imbalances in TW, you don't see two classes dominate TWs the way sins dominate pve.

You're whining about sins, we aren't talking about sins specifically. We know they're OP, that's a given. Casters can run Nirvana in under 20 minutes though, even if it takes an OP squad you just admitted it happens. That means that those squads can farm nearly as efficiently as a regular squad. By the way, only OP squads for normal vana finish in under 15, so don't give me this **** about normal farmars being so imbalanced in comparison.

Oh, by the way

umad?

Michael_Dark - Lost City · February 2012

This is really a freaking joke.

A normal APS squad does not do a full nirvana run in 5-7 minutes.

Whining casters complaining about a glitch being fixed. You casters are worse than Goon Glitchers. At least they didn't whine so badly when their glitch got fixed.

Bunch of whining pansy entitlement generation nubos crying because they can't abuse a glitch anymore.

What comes around goes around.

You should have been happy that you were able to exploit a glitch for so long.

Idiots.

sachelfunlol · February 2012

Euthymius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I'm a caster (as a main anyways) and I didnt like the removal of the CC glitch either. It gave skills like DBB/Demon GS extra utility whiile still taking Mana, and required actual skill to use in something like a stun-lock. At the very least, I'd be happy if they reduced the spark cost for DBB to make up for removing it, but thats another matter entirely...

As for those who claim that Caster NV "ruined" the economy? Are you guys serious? Even if Casters can finish within 30mins or even 15 minutes, Ive heard of APS people who can run from anywhere within 5-10 minutes! They can even continue to run it for hours on end since they can hold their keys till 2x comes...

Are you guys seriously going to blame the casters for a decrease in those crystals' value?

I can't speak about other servers but on Tides this was the case. Before the month of 2x started, the caster glitch was found. The merchants caught wind of it and the price of nirvana mats dropped quite a bit, then even more when 2x started. Now that it has been fixed I had assumed even during this 2x the prices would stablize somewhat, but they have dropped a bit lower. Probaly because of all the surplus of aps sins, bm's and barbs running squads.

Personaly i think there should be 3 types of nirvana instanced, caster, high dmg melee's and the current traditional instance. Caster and high dmg giving mediocre drops and the current the higher prized drops or rate which would require one of each class to open and run and not a sin only or combo of high dmg melee's.

b:surrender

Cimon - Harshlands · February 2012

hi this is what i did i shall describe it for you. i sat here and read this thread and smoked a bunch of pot. i was reading this post and i came to a conclusion. there is really only one thing at all wrong with nirvana be it casters or any other class be it fish fox or kitty all has same issue. KEYS its a stupid concept that i a lvl 100 anydamnthing has to get permission from some sort of gate keepers that i should be able to stomp into the ground given my mediocre gear. its stupid talismans are stupid how can you even restrict our farming to begin with be it in tt or nirvana or lunar or anywhere else. open the friggen doors i say hell i had i key i got in once who says i didnt jam gum in the damn lock when i got there. or hey im a freakin wizzard i came into nirvana and showed them my hall pass and they let me in.....no i set his stupid nirvana monitoring *** on fire and then i froze him some and hit him with a boulder and told him to mind his neck. the real issue here is farming restrictions at all. o and another thing when are we gunna perm lower prices for cannys and raps and such there not worth a shet anyhow theese five aps been spamming it for eons and casters got a wee taste of it wouldnt you say that the market is full of this **** now 10k a canny and like 100k a rap sounds fair for as much effort as theese folks even put into theese runs who the hell set the prices anyhow someone higher then me no doubt. so all in all this thread is dumb all theese ideas and complaints fall gracefully on deaf ears. fix the economy lol thats funny the only reason the economy is effed is because your all greedy as hell there are plenty of mmos out there with similar systems in place for auctioned gold and player sold items and not a whole lot of them are nearly as corrupt or full of whiners. simple fix put the game down for a month all of you myself included with no one to buy there **** the prices drop as they want to make coin of some sort for there effort or new fly mount or some other overpriced pixal theyve been fapping to whatever the case if we wanna blame anyone for how effed up this game is pvp econamy or otherwise blame ourselves if we wanna blaime someone for how the game isnt geard for fairness blaime the devs if you wanna blaime someone for how theres never a proper solution to any of our issues i guess throw it to the gms or something tbh i dont see a clear cut blaime on that one but hell they should be bored by now so spice things up a wee bit. toodles see ya on the other side

Angel_Spawn - Sanctuary · February 2012

Casters already were treated like spoiled brats by getting an instance ESPECIALLY for them, you abused a glitch, it got fixed so stop whining and learn to merch or make a farming character, don`t be hypocrites and make your own normal nirvana squads, you know like the old times with barb as the tank. b:angry

Malei - Sanctuary · February 2012

Cimon - Harshlands wrote: »

hi this is what i did i shall describe it for you. i sat here and read this thread and smoked a bunch of pot. i was reading this post and i came to a conclusion. there is really only one thing at all wrong with nirvana be it casters or any other class be it fish fox or kitty all has same issue. KEYS its a stupid concept that i a lvl 100 anydamnthing has to get permission from some sort of gate keepers that i should be able to stomp into the ground given my mediocre gear. its stupid talismans are stupid how can you even restrict our farming to begin with be it in tt or nirvana or lunar or anywhere else. open the friggen doors i say hell i had i key i got in once who says i didnt jam gum in the damn lock when i got there. or hey im a freakin wizzard i came into nirvana and showed them my hall pass and they let me in.....no i set his stupid nirvana monitoring *** on fire and then i froze him some and hit him with a boulder and told him to mind his neck. the real issue here is farming restrictions at all. o and another thing when are we gunna perm lower prices for cannys and raps and such there not worth a shet anyhow theese five aps been spamming it for eons and casters got a wee taste of it wouldnt you say that the market is full of this **** now 10k a canny and like 100k a rap sounds fair for as much effort as theese folks even put into theese runs who the hell set the prices anyhow someone higher then me no doubt. so all in all this thread is dumb all theese ideas and complaints fall gracefully on deaf ears. fix the economy lol thats funny the only reason the economy is effed is because your all greedy as hell there are plenty of mmos out there with similar systems in place for auctioned gold and player sold items and not a whole lot of them are nearly as corrupt or full of whiners. simple fix put the game down for a month all of you myself included with no one to buy there **** the prices drop as they want to make coin of some sort for there effort or new fly mount or some other overpriced pixal theyve been fapping to whatever the case if we wanna blame anyone for how effed up this game is pvp econamy or otherwise blame ourselves if we wanna blaime someone for how the game isnt geard for fairness blaime the devs if you wanna blaime someone for how theres never a proper solution to any of our issues i guess throw it to the gms or something tbh i dont see a clear cut blaime on that one but hell they should be bored by now so spice things up a wee bit. toodles see ya on the other side

Wow. b:laugh

_Nuriko_ - Lost City · February 2012

All i see is QQ they took our glitch that we abused to get our stuff. So... technically since you guys admitted to using a known glitch, shouldn't you all be banned?

ApocaIypto - Dreamweaver · February 2012

b:cry no more 8 minutes caster runs b:cry

b:pleasedgood thing i still have G15 sin b:pleased

b:avoid

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2012

TheDendra - Harshlands wrote: »

No you can't. A very, very, very good caster squad can make 15-20mill per hour at best. A very good aps squad makes up to 30mill per hour. And that is with the talisman glitch.

Now don't forget caster nirvana drop rate has a much higher variance than normal nirvana. Bosses can drop 0chests, while aps classes have a chance to get a rare boss.

To put you in the right perspective - an op caster squad takes 20mins for a run, an op 5aps squad takes 5-7minutes. A good caster squad takes 25-30mins, a good aps squad takes 10minutes. An average caster squad can't finish nirvana because they all simply die, an average aps squad with a barb can still finish their run twice as fast as a normal nirvana caster run can.

So even with the glitch and op squad, we still make 33% less money than aps classes do per hour. How is that fair?

And btw I won't even comment the 5aps sins option to farm TTs, etc. So there is no way in hell casters will ever be able to compete with aps classes in making money. I'm not expecting that nor requesting that, all I'd like to see is the return of the closest thing to pve balance that was randomly created by the talisman glitch, so if they were smart enough to break the game's economy yet again, they might as well be smart enough to find a non-glitched way for us to make decent amount of money.

P.S. @Zankanto - have you ever played any mmo? Do you seriously find it normal a 5aps char can solo an instance ten times faster than a full caster squad? Do you find it normal 5aps chars can kill bosses in just a few hits?

Name me one game in which endgame bosses die in 2hits to a class...it's a sign of a broken game. It's the same as if casters could do 5million damage per normal hit. Sure enough, it isn't classified as a glitch, it's classified as the equivalent of entering a cheat code "show me the money".

You're an idiot. An average APS squad might as well just take casters instead because of how often they'd get sealed. Getting spark cycles interrupted over and over on fists is much worse than just having ranged DDs. Lols at average casters never being able to finish a regular nirv, because ranged DDs are clearly better when the bosses cannot die within a reasonable number of spark cycles, and I see this time after time that when the overall damage output of a squad is low, bow archers keep aggro over fist users. Shows how much you really know.

Zanryu - Lothranis · February 2012

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

You're an idiot. An average APS squad might as well just take casters instead because of how often they'd get sealed. Getting spark cycles interrupted over and over on fists is much worse than just having ranged DDs. Lols at average casters never being able to finish a regular nirv, because ranged DDs are clearly better when the bosses cannot die within a reasonable number of spark cycles. Shows how much you really know.

It makes me so hot when you argue with someone Quil

FateBlade - Lost City · February 2012

QQ moar.

Ruxal - Harshlands · February 2012

And all this because common sense cannot prevail and cap aps at 2.0. PWI developers are sad.

Dragoneast - Sanctuary · February 2012

hi, 96 barb here, idk anything about vana economics but i've seen the other part of pwi's economics fail too. plvl>5aps>overpowered>exclusive gang who is 5aps and who are soooo rich ingame. also the catsers who have R9 usually cashshop or exist for 3 years and farmed. just wanted to say: cant blame 5 aps for all, but u can for ALOT

woot casters and phys classes who arent aps

Pazi_Ujedam - Raging Tide · February 2012

ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide wrote: »

i blame caster nirvana for ruining the nirvana economy.... see how much impact it had after people spammed it for just one x2...

So, u blame Casters, do you? >.>
Caster Glitch is removed, I saw that Raps and cannies prices went down a lot, and since casters are limited now, are u sure that casters are to blame?
Even when glitch was posible, casters need 20-40 mins for 1 run, while 5 aps squads need only like 10-15. Think again who is ruining nirvana drops economy.
It is the BMs and Sins that are lowering prices, not Casters b:angry

MoonsMyst - Heavens Tear · February 2012

whan u finish bh1 u will get one timed nirvana talisman and one aps timed key, u can exchainge those things and talisman+aps key by misterious merchant in ragin tide for subs mirages or chips, aps clases canot enter without aps key in to regular nirvana and u cannot do anymore multi normal nirvana runs.
casters vote for this so we r all in same pain so we all start qq in future

Fintan - Lost City · February 2012

I have an idea that should make everyone happy! b:pleased

1) Eliminate Caster Nirvana and the talismans.
2) Stick the current Caster Nirvana bosses into the Normal Nirvana instance as potential boss encounters.
3) Make keys unstackable and timed.
4) Make the Mysterious Old Man only give one key per day.
5) Make the drops the same as Caster Nirvana, rather than Normal Nirvana's current drops.

Pretty much the consensus of the non-Casters seems to be "If Caster's that broken, just get rid of it. The timed/unstackable Talismans aren't a problem." And the point of Caster is that we can't exactly take an all-caster squad there as the average robe tank will fall over and go boom against those bosses (and seriously, I think venos [followed by clerics] have the best chance of actually making it into a normal squad).

So let's get rid of Caster and mix it into Normal. That way everyone gets what they want: non-Casters stop hearing QQ about how Caster's broken in various ways; Casters get invited to Nirvana so they can help with the Physical Immune bosses. And everyone gets a very limited number of chances to go each day, driving the prices of Uncannies and Raptures back through the roof. Also, since non-Casters think Casters get better drops, may as well bring the "new and improved Nirvana" in line with that!

See? It's perfect. Can I get an amen?

(I'm not mad, but I hope that my suggestion gets taken to heart so that non-Casters will be and we Casters won't really see much change from now except the ability to find a squad.)

Takeva - Heavens Tear · February 2012

LOL I see a bunch of people basing their argument on why we should stop QQing is because we are QQing about the glitch. When did some of you stop learning how to read?

If anyone can remember before the glitch was discovered there was a bunch of complaining about casters. Then the QQing died down. And of course everyone discovered why. There was a glitch that allowed us to do as many as we wanted. We knew it was wrong and that it would be fixed sooner or later (not so soon of course). But it was our only way to keep up without having to reroll a character we don't enjoy playing. LOL all the aps folk most of hated us huh?

Well anyway if you learn to read before you write. We are QQing about that stupid timer they have on the talismans. Truth is, they never should have bought out Caster Nirvana and then put a limit on it. Yea that truly fixes things.

Accalica - Heavens Tear · February 2012

@Takeva - Well spoken! We're not speaking of the glitch, simply bringing us closer to the APS in terms of nirvana. It's not really ok that we get limited in ways APS classes do not.

In terms of drop anyone who run caster knows we have a wider span of drops than normal. Sometimes on 2x we get 0 boxes! Sometimes 6 but 90% chance is 5 of them will contain ****. How often do u guys spam 4 cannies from a rare boss? Think about it logically, we don't either.

---

Scenario to make this more clear to people who usually dont run but still argue about times:

I did 7 caster runs by using my boyfriends alt talismans and my own yesterday, and on average I had r8 +6 refined and above casters (+12 nirvana wiz and once a +10 r8 recasted one) and also 1-3 r9 +7 and up refined wizards in my squads (only 2 of them were ran without an r9) + one r8 amping veno. Guess how long my 7 runs still took? Over 4 hours yet I took no breaks inbetween more than to fill some spots with equally geared people. Those 7 runs would never have taken me 4 hours in such a squad in normal nirvana, it's simply riddiculous to state anything close to it. If u still argue "the drops are better" refer to what I stated above, and also that u could run the double of what I did with that sort of APS squad. Don't think all of the casters are blind to APS speeds. Clerics if any know how fast a 5 man semi geared 4.0-5.0 squad takes. Throw in 2 +12 r9 sins and I'm simply gonna laugh at u if u say that they take time to complete that is eqvivalent of caster nirvana.

Put 2 r9 +12 sins in a nirvana and u can duo it, did it look like my 3 r9 nicely refined wizzies could? Obviously not in the time the sins could. So why the fuzz making us able to run unlimited? Most of us WON'T as it takes this long to do them! I don't have 5-6 hours to put on caster nirvana + BHs everyday...it's simply absurd. I did on average maybe 4-5/day last 2x when the glitch existed. But that was mainly cause squads wanted to continue, now it's simply taking 20mins to find people who still got talismans on wc with decent gears. Forget about second runs, most don't have 2 talis left. b:surrender

---

The thing we aren't equal on are the terms of planning our runs and doing more than 1-3 per day unless we work our ***** off (I just spent 1hour+ trying to complete my rb wave 3 and ended up losing. QQ no tali for me there, it's lunar day and what can I run today if I dont have saved up BH2's? 1 caster! Does this seem fair to you in common sense?) If i wanna run 2, I have to pay 500k in lunar. So there goes the full profit from any caster run.
THIS IS NOT FAIR TO ANYONE WITH COMMON SENSE! b:angry

Tsukyini - Raging Tide · February 2012

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Oh, by the way

umad?

I mad cuz I bad. b:cry

I not so mad about the glitch being fixed (since I never used it in the first place).b:chuckle

So, u blame Casters, do you? >.>
Caster Glitch is removed, I saw that Raps and cannies prices went down a lot, and since casters are limited now, are u sure that casters are to blame?
Even when glitch was posible, casters need 20-40 mins for 1 run, while 5 aps squads need only like 10-15. Think again who is ruining nirvana drops economy.
It is the BMs and Sins that are lowering prices, not Casters

It's the buyers who are affecting it also.

If buyers don't purchase crystals from the merchants, the merchants are stuck with a large stock that isn't moving, which can cause them to lower their purchasing price until their current stock sells.

Nymphali - Dreamweaver · February 2012

Nothing unfair.

Caster Nirvana is easier and drops more, it had to be limited, it was about time.

"Oh, Caster nirv is a pain in the ***". Go tank normal nirv then, I Challenge YOU!

FatherTed - Dreamweaver · February 2012

http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Matt/water-into-whine.png

Fintan - Lost City · February 2012

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nothing unfair.

Caster Nirvana is easier and drops more, it had to be limited, it was about time.

"Oh, Caster nirv is a pain in the ***". Go tank normal nirv then, I Challenge YOU!

Sounds like you'd be totally behind my idea on the previous page, then, eh?

Accalica - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Nymphali - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nothing unfair.

Caster Nirvana is easier and drops more, it had to be limited, it was about time.

Easier..is that why it takes 2x longer with better equipped people? Is that why we get squad wiped if BB closes at the 3rd/4th boss now that we cant AD away the slow channeling that makes us unable to re-put it up fast enough for most to survive unless u got 8k+ hp? Have you ever been in caster nirvana or are you just another silly fish assuming it's like playing a low level sin by DDing and using a few DD skills while someone else keeps u alive 95% of the time? Honestly, go swim in someother ocean, this one isnt for u unless u learn to read and see the reality around you. b:bye

And please, tanking nirvana is most of the time easier than tanking caster nirvana, most psys and wizards that go have less HP than a sin these days and still gotta tank. We don't have a thing called BP, and even if we're 2 clerics we still get squad wiped sometimes due to slow chan or the 0 phy debuff and phy dmg AoE squashing us. Howcome sins can solo nirvana? What's harder to tank do u think? The real challenge here would be a fish like u going in there tanking our bosses.

deathrider35 · February 2012

In the time you are QQing on forums about glitch, you are losing money not farming nirvana...b:laugh

_Petal_ - Harshlands · February 2012

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

LOLOLOLOL DEY TOOK UR GLITCH NAO U NO KEN DOES MAKE FAST COINS LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No but seriously... I have no sympathy for you casters losing the glitch. They took away Blademaster's cancel casting which allowed us to farm faster among other, more important things. Casters gave us **** and told us to shutup and deal with it because it was a glitch and shouldn't have been usable. Well I'm going to tell you the same thing.

Shutup and deal with it, because it was a glitch and you shouldn't have been allowed to use it in the first place.

Man, karma's a ***** aint it?

Cannot tell if quoted poster was born stupid or if he just had help...b:lipcurl

Twitchy people Nirvana: 5 minutes
Caster Nirvana with ACTUAL DD's: 30-40 minutes

MATHS: YOU FAIL AT IT

Soultion: Have everybody above 3.33+ APS take 20% damage every time they land a hit.
Problem solved.

Nightmare/ - Harshlands14 · February 2012

Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »

Try normal Nirvana with only R8 weapons and low interval gear, no way to finish in 15 minutes either. Try coming up with an argument that actually works b:cute

U clearly dont know anythin then if u think this statement works being the owner of a bm and a wiz i can honestly tell u now ur full of ****.I often help guild do 99 keys even the casters we did some runs last night, bm 3.33+4 claws,1 r8 sin+6,1 nirv dag sin +6 and 2 clerics and we still managed to finish a whole run in under 15 min and u cant tell me anythin in that combination is OP those are low refines u can get +6 with friggin tisha stones.

If thats still to high aps for you ive ran 2.86-3.33 squads and managed to finish under 15 so either ur just trying to back urself up or just plain talkin ****.As for caster my mage +10 and ive been in squads with r9 mage classes and still will take u close to 20min per run.I fully agree with every magical DD on this thread they didnt ruin market.

Ppl runnin 3-4 man normal vana and still finsihin under 15min ruined it.Try caster 3-4man will never ever! happen under at most 25min prob more.As for the person on this thread that said ppl cant run nirvana in 5-7 min go on youtube theres a video of it being done in 5min 15 sec or somethin like that. So lets work out the statistics of an average squad for normal and caster vana shall we??

Normal vana-2bms +5,3sins +5,1barb/veno or another aps class that exact squad combination assuming ppl know wtf they doing and work together 10min run tops=6runs per hour

Caster vana-2 clerics(some squads like 2 for the bb and w.e)+5,mage,psy,veno,mystic all +5 tops 20-25min easy=2.5-3 runs per hour(depenin on time) so even though casters get a somewhat better drop rate (not always coz last boss can drop a shet ton of mirages instead of anythin else) aps classes get double the runs

For **** sake lets psot the stats of OP vana and OP caster vana

Normal vana- 2bms+10,4sins +10 possibly either r9 4aps,zerk dags w.e or just 5aps everyone sparks at start of bosses 1 bm dgs,2bm follows up right after that will will take u under 8min to complete easy =7.5 runs per hour

Caster vana-1 cleric,2 mages r8+10 or r9+10,psy +10,mystic+10 and veno +10 even with that combination lackin the dg aps classes get that run will still be 15min+ = 4 runs per hour.And so u know also last boss in caster nirvana is timed so if squads dont finish in time they screwed anyways...

Casters get the short end of the stick regardless on situationb:bye

Foxy_Fiona - Heavens Tear · February 2012

Anyone that can't understand why casters are feeling a little upset right now needs a reality check. I'm usually the type that would prefer to punch glitch abusers in the throat, but I have to agree with the people that have been trying to point out that it was one of the only glitches that caused something remotely close to balance.

I just endured the Lunar BH from hell. (Seriously, it's not even noon yet and I feel like I need a drink.) The drops from the run won't cover the 500k split and then I got a cultivation orb from the head hunter. MFF. I'm sure some people are going to chime in and say that nobody forced me to do this, but I happen to enjoy doing Nirvana and this is what casters have to do if they want to do more than one run per day. I guess I should consider myself fortunate since I completed an old BH and have the opportunity to pay another 500k split so I can get another talisman and more than likely some mysterious chips! YAY! I can do FOUR runs today and it will only cost me 1m plus pots and several charm ticks!

What did the chosen ones do to get their everlasting talisman and more keys to add to their pile? They talked to a NPC.

Yeah, that totally sounds fair.

RoyalMist - Sanctuary · February 2012

Simple solutions such as removing timer on tallisman and make it stackable is probably not that hard to do for PWI devs.. they just don't have the clearance for it. Also, it's true that avg caster run is about 20-30 mins (given good squad of decent geared people) so yeah, casters probably won't get to use all their tallisman... so? why not apply the brilliant idea that has been implemented on normal nirvana keys? 99 nirvana keys = 1 special boss. OOOOooooHHHhhh why not allow casters to have 99 tallisman special boss?.

Before any of you APS supporters flame on this, consider this, you also get tallismans when you complete your BH. 33 days later, voila, 1 special boss collected, not bad right? of course you'd need the help of your caster friends... if you have any considering the elitist attitude most have >.> but that's another story. Either way what i have written are just 2 simple solutions to make everyone happy, 2 among many many solutions. I know you PWI devs are good with your coding skills, it's again proven with the new expansion and the interesting things in it (also cool monsters and graphics) so get that damn clearance already. APS people are not the only ones cash shopping, casters also cash shop a lot... probably even more but who knows.

Very UNFAIR rules for Magic Classes

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