Very UNFAIR rules for Magic Classes

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BlackMorder - Raging Tide
BlackMorder - Raging Tide Posts: 73 Arc User
edited March 2012 in General Discussion
PWI is so UNFAIR against all the magic classes, the ones who make money so hard.
My complain is, why you GMs made the Nirvana Talisman like this, i mean Timered ....
Why we must be limit? for drops? if we caulculate the time for a normal and APSed nirvana, the time would be the same and drops as well.
So why you made it limit and timerd ... ??
Why we get 3 keys, but we get only damn one talisman card per day, and we must always do allllll our bh 1 and bh2 to get talisman to do 3 damn Nirvana run... this is freaking UNFAIR.
better remove this nirvana, or fix the timered cards ( make like Chrono key, or remove talisman tickets, so all can get in with their keys.)
For the ones who CS, or the ones who has an APS char, this is easy to farm money. But for the ones who dont wanna CS, or are not able to, is so UNFAIR to have this limitations.
I want to say remove the nirvana for Magic classes OR FIX IT SO ALL CAN GO AND DO IT AS MUCH AS THEY WANT WITH THEIR KEYS!! NOT WITH FREAKING TIMERED CARDS...
If you remove it, so all would understand to make an APS char, or to CS or even leave game, OR FIX IT ...
And nowadays after the new update, many people fail to start the dungeon (boss dont spawns) wich COSTS ONE TALISMAN FROM ALL SQUAD MEMBERS!!
IS THIS FAIR OR UNFARI?????

GMs PLEASE ANSWER ME...
Post edited by BlackMorder - Raging Tide on
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Comments

  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    LOLOLOLOL DEY TOOK UR GLITCH NAO U NO KEN DOES MAKE FAST COINS LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    No but seriously... I have no sympathy for you casters losing the glitch. They took away Blademaster's cancel casting which allowed us to farm faster among other, more important things. Casters gave us **** and told us to shutup and deal with it because it was a glitch and shouldn't have been usable. Well I'm going to tell you the same thing.

    Shutup and deal with it, because it was a glitch and you shouldn't have been allowed to use it in the first place. :)

    Man, karma's a ***** aint it?

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  • Aduro_Tri - Heavens Tear
    Aduro_Tri - Heavens Tear Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    GMs do not make game changing decisions, they are simply here to MANAGE THE GAME, The DEVS IN CHINA are the ones who change the game.
    Don't ***** at the GMs for things that the Devs in China did to the game.
  • ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide
    ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide Posts: 152 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    i blame caster nirvana for ruining the nirvana economy.... see how much impact it had after people spammed it for just one x2...
    current pwcalc.com/ecccbccc47400382
    aiming pwcalc.com/5ac2ca79fcef8da4
    b:bye
  • PheosNyx - Sanctuary
    PheosNyx - Sanctuary Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    LOLOLOLOL DEY TOOK UR GLITCH NAO U NO KEN DOES MAKE FAST COINS LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    No but seriously... I have no sympathy for you casters losing the glitch. They took away Blademaster's cancel casting which allowed us to farm faster among other, more important things. Casters gave us **** and told us to shutup and deal with it because it was a glitch and shouldn't have been usable. Well I'm going to tell you the same thing.

    Shutup and deal with it, because it was a glitch and you shouldn't have been allowed to use it in the first place. :)

    Man, karma's a ***** aint it?

    My main's are a BM and a Wizard and i can tell you for a fact that CC isn't as big of an impact as Caster Nirv glitch. A) We still find squads even w/o use of CC B) Honestly the time it took to cancel GS I coulda aps'd another second making up for the DD the auto-crits did. Cancel casts isn't a huge deal. You're just being a troll. :B
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  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    PheosNyx - Sanctuary wrote: »
    My main's are a BM and a Wizard and i can tell you for a fact that CC isn't as big of an impact as Caster Nirv glitch. A) We still find squads even w/o use of CC B) Honestly the time it took to cancel GS I coulda aps'd another second making up for the DD the auto-crits did. Cancel casts isn't a huge deal. You're just being a troll. :B

    You seem to have missed where I stated "among other, more important things." Cancel casting for BMs was extremely useful in PvP, as it allowed us to kill harder targets without resorting to wasting all of our chi on a triple spark, instead of just being stun monkeys and getting nowhere while wasting chi keeping them locked. Cancel casting being removed had a huge impact on BM gameplay in both PvE and PvP, though it had a larger impact on PvP.

    Caster glitching was good money for casters, sure, but it was a glitch just like cancel casting was. Casters told us to suck it up now I'm telling casters to do the same. They took away something you made use of to make money just like they took away something BMs used to pk more efficient. It's fun seeing casters cry about their glitch being gone, like I said.. karma's a *****. b:cute
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  • Traz - Dreamweaver
    Traz - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,843 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Ok then since tailsman are so unfair, lets just remove them from game and then everyone can just do regular nirvana. Oh wait timer doesn't sound so bad then does it? :o
    BladedZero - Sanctuary
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    -And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute
  • jamminjimmy
    jamminjimmy Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    maybe on the other servers u say caster hurt the econimy but on harshlands last 2x canny were 200k and rapts 1 mil before anyone was spamming for casters multi runs ect in wc,last 2x by the time because it was so long all the 5 ap 3-4 man sqds were outa keys except for there daily 4 and prices were back to 350 per can and 1.75 per rapt you tell me what class drags the prices by flooding the market.least on harshlands it definatly wasnt the casters. the price has tanked by30-40% alrdy and half the caster runs are failing causeing whole sqd loose tailsman and get no run and lose key ( not like magic classes will get to use all there keys) get friends to go ect it will be 20-30 per run and rare anyone will do multi if go reg its all 4-5 aps no cleric +10 least they learned barbs are usefull and take them so veno get little less but mainly veno sin bm get nirv ( I have both a 5 ap bm and a caster class).But will take anyone with me but sometimes forget have to do things diferant if bad geared no low ap sqd,just like casters with badley geared takes longer and do little diferant.

    But still maybe remove timmers on tailsmans or jut time keys also.
    5941165jeLeR.png
  • TheDendra - Harshlands
    TheDendra - Harshlands Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Thank you jamminjimmy, the voice of reason. Hopefully more people will come to realize the same and hopefully casters will be able to get at least somewhat closer to the amount of coins aps classes make per hour.

    I.e. without the glitch, it would take us literally 1year to farm the same amount of canny and raps a 5aps char can farm in two weeks of 2x drops...
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    ShadowsFlame - Raging Tide wrote: »
    i blame caster nirvana for ruining the nirvana economy.... see how much impact it had after people spammed it for just one x2...

    Jezus this is BS big like jupiter. How long take caster to do nirvana? at least 30minutes. How long it takes for 5aps sqaud? 10minutes. Who ruined all economy was APS classes not magic classes.+ packs of course.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Jezus this is BS big like jupiter. How long take caster to do nirvana? at least 30minutes. How long it takes for 5aps sqaud? 10minutes. Who ruined all economy was APS classes not magic classes.+ packs of course.

    I'm fairly certain there were casters bragging about finishing in about 15 minutes tops.
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  • _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver
    _Nerox_ - Dreamweaver Posts: 753 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Jezus this is BS big like jupiter. How long take caster to do nirvana? at least 30minutes. How long it takes for 5aps sqaud? 10minutes. Who ruined all economy was APS classes not magic classes.+ packs of course.

    wtf are your squad members using potaoes as weapons oO
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    I'm fairly certain there were casters bragging about finishing in about 15 minutes tops.

    No way to finish in 15 minutes. Try it. With all R8 weapon it take at least 25 minutes. There is 5 bosses and each take mediocre 5 minutes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Euthymius - Heavens Tear
    Euthymius - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,162 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    I'm a caster (as a main anyways) and I didnt like the removal of the CC glitch either. It gave skills like DBB/Demon GS extra utility whiile still taking Mana, and required actual skill to use in something like a stun-lock. At the very least, I'd be happy if they reduced the spark cost for DBB to make up for removing it, but thats another matter entirely...

    As for those who claim that Caster NV "ruined" the economy? Are you guys serious? Even if Casters can finish within 30mins or even 15 minutes, Ive heard of APS people who can run from anywhere within 5-10 minutes! They can even continue to run it for hours on end since they can hold their keys till 2x comes...

    Are you guys seriously going to blame the casters for a decrease in those crystals' value?
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  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    No way to finish in 15 minutes. Try it. With all R8 weapon it take at least 25 minutes. There is 5 bosses and each take mediocre 5 minutes.

    Try normal Nirvana with only R8 weapons and low interval gear, no way to finish in 15 minutes either. Try coming up with an argument that actually works b:cute
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    Try normal Nirvana with only R8 weapons and low interval gear, no way to finish in 15 minutes either. Try coming up with an argument that actually works b:cute

    Yea especially when I see in WC looking for nirvana run 4.0+ APS. Nowadays is every1 +100lv. at least 4APS.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Burnout - Harshlands
    Burnout - Harshlands Posts: 2,585 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    a squad of 6 R8 +10 casters takes 15-20 minutes to do Caster Nirv.

    I've heard of sins Duo'ing an entire regular nirvana in 10 minutes.
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  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Yea especially when I see in WC looking for nirvana run 4.0+ APS. Nowadays is every1 +100lv. at least 4APS.

    4APS with a +3 weapon will do horrible damage.
    Burnout - Harshlands wrote: »
    a squad of 6 R8 +10 casters takes 15-20 minutes to do Caster Nirv.

    I've heard of sins Duo'ing an entire regular nirvana in 10 minutes.

    I've heard of someone soloing caster Nirvana in about 30 minutes.
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    4APS with a +3 weapon will do horrible damage.



    I've heard of someone soloing caster Nirvana in about 30 minutes.
    But it's same in caster. Do you think every1 is R8 +10? No way. +5 is standard. And without APS of course.
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  • Takeva - Heavens Tear
    Takeva - Heavens Tear Posts: 359 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    *sighs*

    Its not about the time it takes. It's about how many you get to do without having to spend hours looking for a squad that will be willing to take you and/or trying desperately to try to put a squad together that doesn't fail.

    "Casters ruined the economy." This joke again? Look at those sells now that we are limited to 3 runs a day? Still want to blame us? Of course you do. b:bye
  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    But it's same in caster. Do you think every1 is R8 +10? No way. +5 is standard. And without APS of course.

    That's kind of my point.. an average squad can't farm Nirvana like you think everyone can. Only highly geared people are able to finish in 15 minutes are less, just like only highly geared casters can finish caster Nirvana quickly.
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    That's kind of my point.. an average squad can't farm Nirvana like you think everyone can. Only highly geared people are able to finish in 15 minutes are less, just like only highly geared casters can finish caster Nirvana quickly.

    Sure but highest R8 +10(all people) it takes 25minutes and it's very rare to get into that squad.
    Also just 5 people do DD without cleric, he needs to heal. So normal run is about 30 minutes.
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  • Zanryu - Lothranis
    Zanryu - Lothranis Posts: 1,998 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Sure but highest R8 +10(all people) it takes 25minutes and it's very rare to get into that squad.
    Also just 5 people do DD without cleric, he needs to heal. So normal run is about 30 minutes.

    But people can still do it in under 20 minutes.
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  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    But people can still do it in under 20 minutes.

    Personally I have R8 +10 + 2*75 sapphire gems and I was not in squad yet who could do it under 20 minutes.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • TheDendra - Harshlands
    TheDendra - Harshlands Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    But people can still do it in under 20 minutes.

    get your facts straight son

    To do a run under 20minutes you need seriously op squad. A squad with r8+7 and several R9s takes about 22minutes and that is if you have the right combination of classes.

    The really really really really good caster nirvana squads can do a run in 15mins and I suppose a full r9+12 squad can do it even faster (that's just theorycrafting and numbers may or may not be true).

    Average, and by average I mean ~r8+5 squad will do a caster nirvana in 25-30mins as stated already, if you happen to have a crappy squad with like 2clerics+1veno, add 5minutes to that because you sacrifice firepower, so the times I'm giving you are what you get if you make a proper combination of classes.



    Price/quality ration is immeasurable for 5aps chars, stuff an aps char can do compared to a caster with twice the amount of money invested is a joke. So are we all supposed to reroll sins for pve? Is that what the game is supposed to be about? And don't QQ about imbalances in TW, you don't see two classes dominate TWs the way sins dominate pve.
  • Galliano - Heavens Tear
    Galliano - Heavens Tear Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Just pay someone to use their talisman/keys to open for you, then enter after its been opened.

    Can still outfarm/make more money than aps squads at the rate casters get their drops.
  • bearyflair
    bearyflair Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Who gives a flip about how much time it takes to run Vana or Caster Vana, it's not the point here. The point is about how unfair the timed talismans are and how restricted we are in doing Caster Vana cuz of that. Us casters want the talismans to be untimed and stackable just like the keys are. I'm sure if the keys were timed and unstackable like the talsimans are, you APS ppl would be QQ'ing like we are.
  • Zankanto - Sanctuary
    Zankanto - Sanctuary Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Zanryu - Lothranis wrote: »
    You seem to have missed where I stated "among other, more important things." Cancel casting for BMs was extremely useful in PvP, as it allowed us to kill harder targets without resorting to wasting all of our chi on a triple spark, instead of just being stun monkeys and getting nowhere while wasting chi keeping them locked. Cancel casting being removed had a huge impact on BM gameplay in both PvE and PvP, though it had a larger impact on PvP.

    Caster glitching was good money for casters, sure, but it was a glitch just like cancel casting was. Casters told us to suck it up now I'm telling casters to do the same. They took away something you made use of to make money just like they took away something BMs used to pk more efficient. It's fun seeing casters cry about their glitch being gone, like I said.. karma's a *****. b:cute

    This. Now cry some more, casters. I'm enjoying this very much as I do caster runs on my Seeker and APS runs on BM/Sin after talis are used up. b:laugh
  • Mumintroll - Heavens Tear
    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear Posts: 3,393 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    bearyflair wrote: »
    Who gives a flip about how much time it takes to run Vana or Caster Vana, it's not the point here. The point is about how unfair the timed talismans are and how restricted we are in doing Caster Vana cuz of that. Us casters want the talismans to be untimed and stackable just like the keys are. I'm sure if the keys were timed and unstackable like the talsimans are, you APS ppl would be QQ'ing like we are.

    Of course they would.
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  • Zankanto - Sanctuary
    Zankanto - Sanctuary Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Mumintroll - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Of course they would.

    You still never proved to me in that other thread how APS was in any way a glitch. Are you finally going to back something up, or give me laughs with your whining? b:chuckle
  • TheDendra - Harshlands
    TheDendra - Harshlands Posts: 222 Arc User
    edited February 2012
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    Galliano - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Just pay someone to use their talisman/keys to open for you, then enter after its been opened.

    Can still outfarm/make more money than aps squads at the rate casters get their drops.

    No you can't. A very, very, very good caster squad can make 15-20mill per hour at best. A very good aps squad makes up to 30mill per hour. And that is with the talisman glitch.

    Now don't forget caster nirvana drop rate has a much higher variance than normal nirvana. Bosses can drop 0chests, while aps classes have a chance to get a rare boss.


    To put you in the right perspective - an op caster squad takes 20mins for a run, an op 5aps squad takes 5-7minutes. A good caster squad takes 25-30mins, a good aps squad takes 10minutes. An average caster squad can't finish nirvana because they all simply die, an average aps squad with a barb can still finish their run twice as fast as a normal nirvana caster run can.

    So even with the glitch and op squad, we still make 33% less money than aps classes do per hour. How is that fair?

    And btw I won't even comment the 5aps sins option to farm TTs, etc. So there is no way in hell casters will ever be able to compete with aps classes in making money. I'm not expecting that nor requesting that, all I'd like to see is the return of the closest thing to pve balance that was randomly created by the talisman glitch, so if they were smart enough to break the game's economy yet again, they might as well be smart enough to find a non-glitched way for us to make decent amount of money.


    P.S. @Zankanto - have you ever played any mmo? Do you seriously find it normal a 5aps char can solo an instance ten times faster than a full caster squad? Do you find it normal 5aps chars can kill bosses in just a few hits?

    Name me one game in which endgame bosses die in 2hits to a class...it's a sign of a broken game. It's the same as if casters could do 5million damage per normal hit. Sure enough, it isn't classified as a glitch, it's classified as the equivalent of entering a cheat code "show me the money".

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