bm class made weaker?
Comments
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I didn't read the entire thread...However, I am 50/50 on this.
Cancel casting the BM's skills was what made some BM's more amazing/OP then other's and was a definate help in both Pk and PvP situations.
However...it is not like BM's cannot kill without it. I know many BM's that have no clueeeeeeeee how to cancel cast anything and they are still very good players.
In my opinon, it is not needed...Learn to really stun luck and as a BM you should have no real issue in PK b:surrender
(Not like you cannot use a Wood, Fire or Water damage pot anyways
) [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I didn't read the entire thread...However, I am 50/50 on this.
Cancel casting the BM's skills was what made some BM's more amazing/OP then other's and was a definate help in both Pk and PvP situations.
However...it is not like BM's cannot kill without it. I know many BM's that have no clueeeeeeeee how to cancel cast anything and they are still very good players.
In my opinon, it is not needed...Learn to really stun luck and as a BM you should have no real issue in PK b:surrender
(Not like you cannot use a Wood, Fire or Water damage pot anyways)
That's just it.. a lot of us can stunlock, but that's just not enough aginst certain people. You can keep someone locked for an hour but if you don't pack enough damage to kill them it's worthless. The only effective way we have to kill now is by triple sparking, and that's total ****. We have to use all of our chi, pray our Occult Ice works, then hope they don't just Expel/Domain/Stun break and laugh in our face as we suddenly have no chi to stunlock them.
Using elemental damage apo is kind of an unwise move since... well.. as nice as the damage boost is, it's usually better to have a Vacuity/Iron Guard/Dew Star of Protection and whatever that other apo is that I'm forgetting that absorbs damage.0 -
Stunlock is all well and good but when we're talking 25k+ HP barbs or any other class with JoSD R9 gear all we can do is tick their charm over and over. Yay. Pure axe build here I come.0
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Dakuken - Dreamweaver wrote: »That's just it.. a lot of us can stunlock, but that's just not enough aginst certain people. You can keep someone locked for an hour but if you don't pack enough damage to kill them it's worthless. The only effective way we have to kill now is by triple sparking, and that's total ****. We have to use all of our chi, pray our Occult Ice works, then hope they don't just Expel/Domain/Stun break and laugh in our face as we suddenly have no chi to stunlock them.
Using elemental damage apo is kind of an unwise move since... well.. as nice as the damage boost is, it's usually better to have a Vacuity/Iron Guard/Dew Star of Protection and whatever that other apo is that I'm forgetting that absorbs damage.
The pots last two minutes....Your pot cooldown time is not two minutes -.-
QQ MOAR? I can get ROLLED in one stun lock by a BM if I am not on my toes and even then...This coming from a Cleric that self-buffed has just under 10k pdef...Of course you cannot kill all people but it does not take a super-star to stun lock and 3 spark macro on someone....b:avoid
@ Above...HOW often do BM's REALLY go for 25k+ hp barbs? Most BM's go for the Arcane's and Assist on the HA's -.-
IF you NEED these cancel casts then that's sad...In my opinion they just made those GOOD Bm's even better and more dangerous. I still think a GOOD Bm can do just as well without, the cancel's are not needed. Besides like I said, you cannot kill everyone all the time b:shutup[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »The pots last two minutes....Your pot cooldown time is not two minutes -.-
QQ MOAR? I can get ROLLED in one stun lock by a BM if I am not on my toes and even then...This coming from a Cleric that self-buffed has just under 10k pdef...Of course you cannot kill all people but it does not take a super-star to stun lock and 3 spark macro on someone....b:avoid
@ Above...HOW often do BM's REALLY go for 25k+ hp barbs? Most BM's go for the Arcane's and Assist on the HA's -.-
IF you NEED these cancel casts then that's sad...In my opinion they just made those GOOD Bm's even better and more dangerous. I still think a GOOD Bm can do just as well without, the cancel's are not needed. Besides like I said, you cannot kill everyone all the time b:shutup
All apo shares a two minute cooldown, which means if you use that wood/water/fire apo you lose out on being able to save your *** with one of the others. As long as you pay attention if the BM can't cancel cast Demon GS for the crit proc you have more than enough time to use some sort of a defensive genie skill to break the lock, stop the damage, or hell... with enough Pdef/Def levels you could tank the attacks until he slips up and Plume Shell. I fought a cleric on my server that was in full JoSD and full +10 gear, my +10 claws could barely scratch him without crit glitching. His R8 weapon is +11.. excuse me for not wanting to exhaust my entire supply of chi in one assault, because if he manages to get out of that with any of the methods I mentioned earlier it's pretty much over.. you know.. since I won't have chi to lock.0 -
I have used a element pot and been able to pot again within the same time o.o
Aside from that I am sad that ANY Bm would think all is lost.
I am not for or against this, I am just trying to make people see that it is not needed. WTF did people do before they learned to do it or even discovered it was possible?
Wait for it....They played their Bm!!
Also, I am not spilling ****, I have been 100% locked and unable to get out. Learn to lock better? If they can get out of it, you are doing something wrong....ijs.
I am trying to make a point that the QQ over it is stupid. So you can't anymore, who cares. I am sure you played without it before.
At the chi issue I lol...b:shutup[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
but before this was discovered you had to sell your house for r8 o.o[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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If BM rank gear had interval, cc'ing those skills wouldn't be necessary since our lower dps output would be compensated by extra atk levels. It doesn't so bm's are now inferior endgame pvp classes rather than balanced. Additionally we now have MORE worthless skills than before in spite of having the highest number of skills available.0
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Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »You really dont read posts do you? Said it all once, too lazy to do it again.
Here if i loan you a +12 g 15 weapon will my text be visible?
HAHAHA sorry I was waiting for you to say it so you could dig yourself another hole.
What Ast chooses to loan me has nothing to do with this.
Oh you mean this test?that same calc/math values a vit stone over a DoD at 20k hp with 0 phys/mag def, no existing def level, and 0 attack levels, its flawed, why are you still useing it? The simplest possible forumla will give the most accurate results (i dont mean simple to the point of excludeign variables ofc)
Too bad the formula that everyone was using was for EHP when taking into account amplified damage, because it is assuming extra opponent attack levels as just that. You wouldn't use that formula for def levels higher than attack level would you?
This is because def levels do not directly reduce damage taken like Invoke or other turtle buffs do, or you'd have R9 white voodoo psys crystal walk in TW. If you had 100 def levels you don't take no damage...This is why there were 2 separate formulas for
atk lvl > def lvl
and
def lvl > atk lvl
...we damage tested this ingame with Psys and confirmed that higher atk level than def level is a direct amp, whereas higher def lvl than atk lvl made a nonlinear curve approaching ~45% as def level approached 100. (not 50%, 45%) That is why there were 2 formulas you dolt, and that is why no one in that thread agreed with you. Again, here's a bucket for you if you need to **** bricks.
\_/Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
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Qui: b:dirty0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I have used a element pot and been able to pot again within the same time o.o
Aside from that I am sad that ANY Bm would think all is lost.
I am not for or against this, I am just trying to make people see that it is not needed. WTF did people do before they learned to do it or even discovered it was possible?
Wait for it....They played their Bm!!
Also, I am not spilling ****, I have been 100% locked and unable to get out. Learn to lock better? If they can get out of it, you are doing something wrong....ijs.
I am trying to make a point that the QQ over it is stupid. So you can't anymore, who cares. I am sure you played without it before.
At the chi issue I lol...b:shutup
Who cares? Try the BMs that actually know how PVP works and how much of a disadvantage this puts us at now. There's a variety of factors that can lead to a slip up in a stun lock, but even if you are able to lock perfectly it means NOTHING if you lack the damage to actually kill your target. That leaves us with only a few options, all of which require a lot of chi and can be escaped from provided the person we're fighting has the right genie skills/apo.
It's not idiots that powerlevelled to 100 and learned how to crit glitch complaining about this, it's BMs that actually know how to fight who are. The ones that are out there pking every day, the ones with experience. When you have people with that kind of experience across all servers telling you that something is wrong, then something is wrong. As much as you seem to think crit glitching isn't needed and that we should all just shutup and deal with it... crit glitching IS needed in certain situations, that or we end up **** ourselves. I can remember a few fights where if I just had an extra spark I could have won or coulda ended it earlier, now we're forced to exhaust our sparks for one attack? What kind of **** is that?
Yeah, sure, on lower refined/sharded players the glitches aren't needed, but against people with good gear, refines, and shards... it's either glitch or spark. We no longer have the option to glitch, which means we're forced to spark, and if they're able to escape we're boned. Especially with mages hitting upwards of 4k past Demon marrow.0 -
What morons that run in on the pointing fingers at QQers bandwagon don't get is; In the end, if/when everyone is endgame +12 everything, a BM sucks even against an arcane without CC.0
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no more glitching.... chronobikes.... no glitch fixes.... Dying the chronobikes.. yeah this game has nowhere to go but down QQ[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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One - Dreamweaver wrote: »no more glitching.... chronobikes.... no glitch fixes.... Dying the chronobikes.. yeah this game has nowhere to go but down QQ
b:byeb:byeb:byeb:bye[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Making "non-trash-talkers" show their true color. RAGE ON! b:laugh0 -
WTF did people do before they learned to do it or even discovered it was possible?
+10/12 R9 didn't exist then...
This change hardly nerfs me. I feel really bad for bms though.0 -
lmao i meant no more skill glitching, the glitches they haven't fixed include rubberbanding, Magic shell glitch, Erm getting 1kd in delta, or ported to RT sometimes when you release in nirvana. that kinda shtRoidAbuse - Sanctuary wrote: »b:byeb:byeb:byeb:bye
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »if it were bannable, i'd think all the non-re*arded sins would have been banned long ago.
Frankie did say it was bannable, same as glitching fists in fox/tiger. Enforcement is another story.0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »Also, I am not spilling ****, I have been 100% locked and unable to get out. Learn to lock better? If they can get out of it, you are doing something wrong....ijs.
Archer:
Domain> Wings of Grace> oops
Badge of Courage>WoG>oops
Domain>Elven Alacrity>oops
Wiz:
Domain>leaps>seal>oops
Badge>leaps>sleeps>nuke>seal>oops
I don't need to go on.0 -
Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »Archer:
Domain> Wings of Grace> oops
Badge of Courage>WoG>oops
Domain>Elven Alacrity>oops
Wiz:
Domain>leaps>seal>oops
Badge>leaps>sleeps>nuke>seal>oops
I don't need to go on.
Oh look! Ways for them to break our stun lock!0 -
*nerdrages a bit* ok bai[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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But Gais, why all upset???? this just means be get two go back to Stun->Spark> Auto attack, and we dont get to be calleded fails for et!!! Because all we can do is dat!!!! YAY FOR BM'S!!!
..../Que fking sarcasm.0 -
Aubree - Dreamweaver wrote: »Frankie did say it was bannable, same as glitching fists in fox/tiger. Enforcement is another story.
where? when?
Information on how to glitch fists into animal form is removed immediately but information on how to channel cancel is in multiple guides stickied in the sin and bm forums.
I remember a thread talking about CCing and person said "don't do it, its exploiting the game in a way the game is not meant to be played" and a GM clarified that CCing was about as bannable as using safety lock in pk to prevent item drop. The purpose of safety lock is to prevent hackers from stealing your items, not to exploit the game tools to prevent pk drop penalties but its become such a part of the gameplay that its no longer discouraged.
Get rid of CCing they may as well remove pets abilities to pull (exploitation), Nix's pvp bleed effect (glitch), theoretically poison fang working in human form and blazing arrow working with claws, and anyone who uses safety lock in pk.Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory0 -
GMs obviously have no idea what the hell they're doing...
I log in game and find out that they've ruined the game even more? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU IDIOTS DOING? BMs are underpowered as it is but at least we had fire glitch and heel glitch to stay in the game. Congrats on taking away the only thing that kept BMs even slightly useful and somewhat unique. Instead of nerfing sin skills (60% or so chance to not be stunned, having an extra life, stealth and ridiculous damage that can kill even the best geared players before even popping out of stealth), you decide to completely butcher our class again. "This game has gone downhill" is a total understatement. Fix your game, you damn idiots. Don't say that you did this in the best interest of the players either because you know that's a lie. You've gotten bi'tched at for months to nerf other classes, which are obviously overpowered, and you have done nothing. Powerdash glitch was the least of our worries. Congrats, you've nerfed every underpowered class and have yet to do anything about the ones people actually want taken care of.Sad enough to say, alone we can barely light a match, but together we can burn this place down0 -
Sakubatou - Sanctuary wrote: »where? when?
Information on how to glitch fists into animal form is removed immediately but information on how to channel cancel is in multiple guides stickied in the sin and bm forums.
I remember a thread talking about CCing and person said "don't do it, its exploiting the game in a way the game is not meant to be played" and a GM clarified that CCing was about as bannable as using safety lock in pk to prevent item drop. The purpose of safety lock is to prevent hackers from stealing your items, not to exploit the game tools to prevent pk drop penalties but its become such a part of the gameplay that its no longer discouraged.
Get rid of CCing they may as well remove pets abilities to pull (exploitation), Nix's pvp bleed effect (glitch), theoretically poison fang working in human form and blazing arrow working with claws, and anyone who uses safety lock in pk.
I searched a lot for this and was not able to find the source.
I was able to find you claiming this point in a few other threads like here: http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1069671 and http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=12609061
Although back then you were claiming a forum moderator said it and now you are claiming a GM said it.
Ultimately forum moderators don't speek for PWE in any official capacity so the point is moot. Even if they won't ban people for using it, doesn't mean it's not a glitch that shouldnt be removed.
They didnt ban anyone for using that big headed tiger barb preset but they removed it just the same.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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Almon - Lost City wrote: »GMs obviously have no idea what the hell they're doing...
I log in game and find out that they've ruined the game even more? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU IDIOTS DOING? BMs are underpowered as it is but at least we had fire glitch and heel glitch to stay in the game. Congrats on taking away the only thing that kept BMs even slightly useful and somewhat unique. Instead of nerfing sin skills (60% or so chance to not be stunned, having an extra life, stealth and ridiculous damage that can kill even the best geared players before even popping out of stealth), you decide to completely butcher our class again. "This game has gone downhill" is a total understatement. Fix your game, you damn idiots. Don't say that you did this in the best interest of the players either because you know that's a lie. You've gotten bi'tched at for months to nerf other classes, which are obviously overpowered, and you have done nothing. Powerdash glitch was the least of our worries. Congrats, you've nerfed every underpowered class and have yet to do anything about the ones people actually want taken care of.
This. I usually do fairly well against BMs in PK, but Almon keeps **** me over and over, because he is a very skilled player. Some of his proness came from using said "glitches" fast and in the right moments. It's part of a good BMs gameplay and actually needs some skill - At least more than sparking in stealth and pressing the Headhunt button and if something goes wrong - Shadow Escape. But perhabs the devs/Gms, whatever, want mindless idiots that throw cash at a faceroll class and then hang around at west gate getting erections while killing people out of stealth *looks at certain LC sins*.
-Brofist- @Almon
Reroll Seeker, as I said. They seem decent. "Of course you should fight fire with fire. You should fight everything with fire."
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So, something that wasn't supposed to be in the game to begin with gets fixed and everyone complains? It sounds to me like you depended on this bug for so long you forgot (or never bothered to learn) how to properly play a BM. Funny how I never heard anything about CC back when PWI was worth playing. It was only in the past year or 2 that this even came up. I could be wrong but that could mean that it didn't exist yet, or no one knew about it. I dare say that the original BMs of this game could wipe out all the current ones because they could do fine without CC.
People from back then know I was an information sponge so it would have been hard for me to miss this.Main characters
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Almon - Lost City wrote: »GMs obviously have no idea what the hell they're doing...
I log in game and find out that they've ruined the game even more? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU IDIOTS DOING? BMs are underpowered as it is but at least we had fire glitch and heel glitch to stay in the game.
...i stopped to read there..
maybe i should add that every noob BM with decent gear and bloodpaint can tank almost EVERY boss even without cleric...or that there are seriously like 8 other classes way more underpowered than any BM...or maybe that almost every squad needs BMs for buffs, hf, tanking, DD etc..
oh wait i wont, i should shush..cause you will run on me and say "its about pk"-bs...ofc BMs needs to be OP in every way..pve, pvp, cs, not cs, aps, not aps, debuff etc..
And if you relied only on this glitch to "stay in game"...allow me to say it blunt..then you FAILED.If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »So, something that wasn't supposed to be in the game to begin with gets fixed and everyone complains? It sounds to me like you depended on this bug for so long you forgot (or never bothered to learn) how to properly play a BM. Funny how I never heard anything about CC back when PWI was worth playing. It was only in the past year or 2 that this even came up. I could be wrong but that could mean that it didn't exist yet, or no one knew about it. I dare say that the original BMs of this game could wipe out all the current ones because they could do fine without CC.
Been said before.. original BMs weren't faced with R8/9 and +10-12 gear/weapons.
Just because a lot of BMs use CCing as part of their PvP tactics doesn't mean they can't play. I can sit there and stunlock for quite a while, but I still used CCing as part of my combos.
Getting tired of non-BMs trying to talk like they know about BMs or how they're played, roll a BM, go up against R8/9 without CCing, try to spark, get your sorry *** kicked because you have no chi and they break out of it, THEN tell us to learn to play.0 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »So, something that wasn't supposed to be in the game to begin with gets fixed and everyone complains? It sounds to me like you depended on this bug for so long you forgot (or never bothered to learn) how to properly play a BM. Funny how I never heard anything about CC back when PWI was worth playing. It was only in the past year or 2 that this even came up. I could be wrong but that could mean that it didn't exist yet, or no one knew about it. I dare say that the original BMs of this game could wipe out all the current ones because they could do fine without CC.
People from back then know I was an information sponge so it would have been hard for me to miss this.
CCing don't become worthy of doing until endgame skills are aquired. So if you didn't "hear of it back in the day" was mostly because back then, lvl 100+ with all sorts of celestial skills was unheard of.
But none the less, the abilty to CC skills has been around for YEARS...So, something that wasn't supposed to be in the game to begin with gets fixed and everyone complains?
Had they not let somthing like this go for many years now, the people playing the BM class wouldn't have become so accustomed to it, that changing it could change the entire outlook of playing the BM class in the first place. Yea fixes should be done to broken things, but NOT years after the fact.0 -
ColdSnow - Dreamweaver wrote: »...i stopped to read there..
maybe i should add that every noob BM with decent gear and bloodpaint can tank almost EVERY boss even without cleric...or that there are seriously like 8 other classes way more underpowered than any BM...or maybe that almost every squad needs BMs for buffs, hf, tanking, DD etc..
oh wait i wont, i should shush..cause you will run on me and say "its about pk"-bs...ofc BMs needs to be OP in every way..pve, pvp, cs, not cs, aps, not aps, debuff etc..
And if you relied only on this glitch to "stay in game"...allow me to say it blunt..then you FAILED.
This really isnt on a PvE level of discussion. More so in a PvP....PvE = 3spark auto attack anyway.0 -
SO many things have been broken in the game for years. Now you're saying devs aren't allowed to fix any of them? That's silly.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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