bm class made weaker?

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  • Fenrina - Heavens Tear
    Fenrina - Heavens Tear Posts: 119 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    On that note demon amplify damage out DD's demon HF in the long term and demon venos sparkign at 5 aps would out DD the bm by quite a bit due to the higher weapon multiplier.

    I think you're overestimating demon venos by a considerable amount. Venos cannot hit 5aps without a genie. No matter which genie skill a veno uses, it will eventually run out of steam while the bm keeps on going. Meanwhile, a bm could toss around extreme poison/tangling mire/etc to boost damage further.

    As for sparks, veno demon only allows for the veno's base damage to catch up to a bm, not surpass. A fist veno is going to have no mastery bonus nor high strength. Remember, a fist veno is still a magic user and still going to attempt to have enough magic to use their class skills. Oh, and, if they try to glitch fist fox form, they loose access to all their skills including the ability to shift back. So no demon amp in that case. Last I heard, that hasn't been "fixed," and really, no reason to fix it.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Heh let's drop personal opinions of people from the topic lol. Also 5aps and other things can have their own topic.

    Personally I feel glitch canceling was being more heavily abused by sins than by bms but maybe I haven't been paying much attention to how often BMs glitch dbb in PVP. I never liked glitch canceling because it doesn't make any sense. If a skill is canceled why should you get a buff from it? It also heavily favors those with less latency.

    To tell the truth I am shocked PWE has actually fixed one of its long standing glitches and think that is a positive thing that they are beginning to look at those kinds of things.

    Thats because before i quit there was maby 3-4 bm's on server who activly pvped and actually CCed and of those i only know of 3 who would cancle both DBB and ch (myself the dan and kirbys bm) and only 2 who would CC GS (kirbys bm is sage sadly). Its a rare class to see in pvp due to the fact that you have to be rediculously better at the game or rediculously overgeared to even close on a range class.

    Question, whats better for game balance? Forceing a mele class to 3 spark in order to kill anyone with any decent gear at all in pvp (Every single high level bm in thread that does pvp has stated this will have to happen now that CC is gone) Or lettign members of the class who are capeable of timeign 3 to 4 split second weapon changes before a timed stun with a .2 second window (to prevent the oponent from apocing or leaping from stun) gain enough damage to kill another class unsparked at equal gear? TBH even with back to back GS procs theres arcanes on sanc that cant be dropped w/o spark off a set of +10 fists and many require CC and spark combined.

    So completely nerfing a classes pvp ability is good for the game now?

    @:Fenrina most arcanes have high magic dex genis, wind sheild can be spammed forever off one of those and your severly underestimating the higher spark multiplier on venos.
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  • Sakubatou - Sanctuary
    Sakubatou - Sanctuary Posts: 4,001 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Honestly, this patch bothers me more than the patch when rep became buyable and rank 9 with +30 levels and GoF was released. At least then the game wasn't totally changed for me. I did a vana earlier and literally sparked, could erupted, HFd, auto attacked, and sat back and crossed my arms... leaned forward, sparked, auto attacked, sat back and crossed my arms...

    I used to hit about 15 buttons between sparks to get the most out of my char. Not by "glitching" but by interupt a skill mid channel after I'd recieved the buff, LIKE THE GAME WAS PROGRAMMED TO DO. A glitch is when something does something it should. The game was doing what it should have. Oh well, I guess the patch fix was written by Chinese PWI, not our devs and because people aren't getting upset about it enough I doubt we'll see any change or acknowledgment of it being an issue.

    BMs have 42 skills + 3 different sparks, + sage/demon chi skill, More than any class but pwi has now broken a few of our skills and we are reduced to basically the same skills a claw sin would use.

    I need to change my gameplay. My skill bar (I have a few useless skills on it, as well as weapons hotkeyed). My genie. People are talking about changing their builds. Their cultis...
    Seven 100+ characters leveled the hard way. Free to play. Mystic, Psychic, and Wizard left to level. b:victory
  • Zankanto - Sanctuary
    Zankanto - Sanctuary Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    I never liked glitch canceling because it doesn't make any sense. If a skill is canceled why should you get a buff from it? It also heavily favors those with less latency.

    Why does Blazing ARROW affect melee attacks? Why does Poison FANG affect attacks out of tiger form? Why are there so many classes stronger at a certain weapon then the ONLY class actually mean't to use them? Why, those things do not make sense. And there's a whole lot where that came from.

    Try to rationalize things to your advantage all you want, but very little in this pitiful game's mechanics make sense.

    To truly fix things, you'd have to practically tear down the entire game and rebuild it. Any "fix" now only unbalances things further and screws some people while 'certain' others act like it's a good thing because it doesn't affect THEIR class.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    So completely nerfing a classes pvp ability is good for the game now?

    Fixing glitches is good for the game, especially one with so many glitches.

    Zankanto - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Why does Blazing ARROW affect melee attacks? Why does Poison FANG affect attacks out of tiger form? Why are there so many classes stronger at a certain weapon then the ONLY class actually mean't to use them? Why, those things do not make sense. And there's a whole lot where that came from.

    Try to rationalize things to your advantage all you want, but very little in this pitiful game's mechanics make sense.

    I can only assume those skills have more accurate descriptions / names in chinese. It would be nice if they fixed the english skill descriptions to explain how they properly work.

    I can't think of any language though where glitch canceling makes sense.
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  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Fixing glitches is good for the game, especially one with so many glitches.

    your so full of ****
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Zankanto - Sanctuary
    Zankanto - Sanctuary Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    your so full of ****

    Always has been, that one. And always will be.
  • VorseKiller - Sanctuary
    VorseKiller - Sanctuary Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    lots of raging here =o all i see with this random but crappy bm update , is another reason to make bm's go hardcore demon spark auto attack , makin again cash>skill OR make em spend even moare cash and get a full rank 9 and get based on spark/zerk/crit high hits :$





    OH WAIT !!!! MEDALS ARE BACK AT 25 GOLD !!!!
    what a coincidence -.-''''b:sweat
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    VorseKiller - Sanctuary wrote: »
    lots of raging here =o all i see with this random but crappy bm update , is another reason to make bm's go hardcore demon spark auto attack , makin again cash>skill OR make em spend even moare cash and get a full rank 9 and get based on spark/zerk/crit high hits :$





    OH WAIT !!!! MEDALS ARE BACK AT 25 GOLD !!!!
    what a coincidence -.-''''b:sweat

    Gratz on your first post sir
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  • VorseKiller - Sanctuary
    VorseKiller - Sanctuary Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Thank you =D was it good ? o.o
  • RADD_RATT - Harshlands
    RADD_RATT - Harshlands Posts: 349 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    just gunna throw n my 2 cents real quick.
    as a sin, i used the power dash glitch like second nature and i never used shadow jump at all because i could just glitch shadow teleport. i cant do that now...eh so what its all good i can still kill ****. as far as BMs ive never played one and i didnt even know they did CC lol. but frm PvPing i can say BMs deffinatly dont need a nerf in that field so i feel sorry for you guys. my real issue with this is with the seeker. first off i didnt even know quid pro was a skill you could CC, that seems WAY OP! but honestly i used the free tele alot for a few reasons. we have a lack of stuns, with parchblade on when you see it proc you could simply tele to your target and then stun him...which i think isnt really OP at all. also we lack anti stuns, when i am stuned if i can get away for 1/8 of a second i usually tele to a target to get away from a stun lock.

    BMs= i really dont know, sorry dudes
    Sins= eh its not really a loss
    Seekers= dont mind me im totally not gunna stun you and if you want to stun lock me thats cool ill go make a sandwhich hs my pone # just text me after my charm has died off and youve killed me so i can come back to the game
  • Zankanto - Sanctuary
    Zankanto - Sanctuary Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    You know, all this talk about CC being a glitch or exploit or whatever honestly reminds me of Super Smash Bros Melee and all those people complaining about wave dashing and all those other techs. b:surrender
  • Chickpea - Lost City
    Chickpea - Lost City Posts: 165 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    I don't think you understand. 4.0 sage sparked, or even 3.33 will out DD 5.0 unsparked. Whilst windshield makes you 5aps, it cancels the damage from spark.

    Wind Shield cant cancel dmg since it does not add dmg. Using it has no effect on the added % in weapon dmg from triple spark. Wind shield cancels attack speed, reduction in dmg and probably evasion buffs to.

    For BMs who wanna tank with a perma 25% dmg reduction, using Windshield kinda sucks since it cancels the hole point of Celestial Eruption. I guess you can always use Relentless Courage, but that skill takes way to much energy to spam for an entire boss.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Chickpea - Lost City wrote: »
    Wind Shield cant cancel dmg since it does not add dmg. Using it has no effect on the added % in weapon dmg from triple spark. Wind shield cancels attack speed, reduction in dmg and probably evasion buffs to.

    For BMs who wanna tank with a perma 25% dmg reduction, using Windshield kinda sucks since it cancels the hole point of Celestial Eruption. I guess you can always use Relentless Courage, but that skill takes way to much energy to spam for an entire boss.

    They can use sage CH and keep the reduction its just a 10% dps cut.
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  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Chickpea - Lost City wrote: »
    Wind Shield cant cancel dmg since it does not add dmg. Using it has no effect on the added % in weapon dmg from triple spark. Wind shield cancels attack speed, reduction in dmg and probably evasion buffs to.

    3rd person to correct me thanks b:victory
  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Wait....

    So your telling me that it is now impossible for me to cancel a skill if it is channeling already?

    ****KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

    God dammit, this means all the dumbass BM's in frost will get me killed on my sin in big room =.=
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

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  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    _Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »
    Wait....

    So your telling me that it is now impossible for me to cancel a skill if it is channeling already?

    ****KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

    God dammit, this means all the dumbass BM's in frost will get me killed on my sin in big room =.=

    You can still cancle it, you just don't get the buff from it
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Since you just keep saying the same things over and over yes. I think your a constant suckup to Ast who cant think for himself and has a mediocre grasp on the ideas at best.

    Adroit is a wizz with good timeing and little to no grasp of possible endgames who's had his head inflated by hero worship. If he would deflate a bit I really wouldent mind him

    Dan, i actually like, he openly admits to learning his class at 100 and is usualy chilled out even if he's wrong. Not the brightest guy out there but open to new ideas and has timeing on his skills as good or better than mine. never got a chance to play with him at even gear so that'll be up in the air forever.

    Ast i think does know what it's doing and intentionaly feeds whatever information is most profitable to himself into the forum. Have thought that ever since he leaked the first Josd vs vit comparison on the archer forums.

    In short my opinions and personal like or dislike of people has nothing to do with their IQ and rather than play nice I simply project myself in a straightforward and clear manner. if yuor wondering I'm like this IRL as well.

    In short if you ever bothered takeign apart the formulas given to you or asking why they work that way you'd see an issue with em as well. I dont think i'm better than you I just have a different prespective.

    No, you were just wrong, and even when Fleuri asked you to rationalize your calculation, you couldn't come up with a decent explanation other than "it's like this". So no, it was you who kept repeating yourself. You were the one who thought EHP against someone with 98 more attack levels was calculated by this:

    HP * 0.51


    when everyone else thought it would be

    HP / 1.98

    and you still couldn't tell us why you were right or why we were wrong.

    The formula for calculating EHP was so straightforward, and it certainly does not point to vit stones being better than Jades when the player has 20k hp. Nothing you said in your attempts to explain yourself was accurate.
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  • _Perses_ - Lost City
    _Perses_ - Lost City Posts: 1,917 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Pytharia - Lost City wrote: »
    You can still cancle it, you just don't get the buff from it

    ohhh thank god, that means I can worry less about idiot BM's dropped HF and killing clone on big room boss >.<



    But as for the issue of the buff....Just change weapons during the animation. Buff is there by then and you can use new weapon, of course you'd have to do this after the cooldown is done (lvl 10 CH = 15 sec duration, and 15 sec cooldown). But meh, it was already like that anyhow, so what does it matter?


    Unless somehow I f*cked up when glitching the skill and it was suppose to last for more than the 15 seconds :s
    Nothing worthwhile to mention here, enjoy the animated signature~

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  • Pytharia - Lost City
    Pytharia - Lost City Posts: 757 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    _Perses_ - Lost City wrote: »
    ohhh thank god, that means I can worry less about idiot BM's dropped HF and killing clone on big room boss >.<



    But as for the issue of the buff....Just change weapons during the animation. Buff is there by then and you can use new weapon, of course you'd have to do this after the cooldown is done (lvl 10 CH = 15 sec duration, and 15 sec cooldown). But meh, it was already like that anyhow, so what does it matter?


    Unless somehow I f*cked up when glitching the skill and it was suppose to last for more than the 15 seconds :s

    It doesn't work lol. You can cancle your channelling but you don't get the buff. You will only get the buff when you finished the animation and wasted 2 sparks and time.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No, you were just wrong, and even when Fleuri asked you to rationalize your calculation, you couldn't come up with a decent explanation other than "it's like this".

    The 1/2 page proof explaining the differance in absolute and relative percentages and converting the def vs attack level forula back and froth between the 2 wasent enough for you? The one with actual math in it and not blind repitition of a formula that can be disproven by running a simple test in the calculator? This is the same Fleuri who swears sage archers are amazing in pvp and who tried to reverse a multiplication problem by multiplying again by the same factor in that thread right? Yup shure showed me a thing or 2.

    On the current topic, theres the top bm's on every server claiming that thanks to this nerf bm's are a dead class, and most of the exped wizzies, sins, and assorted other classes. Then theres assored *** hats who shoot their mouths off about how its "a good thing" because either A: they like the idea that theres now a gimp class to kill farm, Or B they're just plain ignorant.
    Gifs are hard to make work here
  • Azura - Lost City
    Azura - Lost City Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    I feel bad for the bms. CC really distinguished those bm's that had some level of actual skill vs the ones who can only face roll. I have a bm too, which I only use for pve. Too bad I won't be able to use CC drake bash, then 3 spark, use genie skill for spark and then hf. I will miss that combo >_<

    The only part that I like of this change is that sins won't be able to cc any skill either. Any kind of nerf to those fishes is welcome, the problem is that sins are still op and bm's are... lets say " balanced."

    I hope bms are able to adapt to this cause they are best pals for pk.

    At the end of the day, the most benefited class of all this are sins.
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  • Okeano - Harshlands
    Okeano - Harshlands Posts: 4,943 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Hmm I was wondering when they'll change the title to the thread.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »
    Hmm I was wondering when they'll change the title to the thread.

    Suprised it took em this long tbh. Though i wish they would have added somethign that sounds even remotely like me.

    examples:

    "Bm's the redheaded crack babies of pwi"

    "What....The....***"

    "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU"
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  • Ceiba - Sanctuary
    Ceiba - Sanctuary Posts: 257 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Well what is done is done, no point in QQing over a bug exploit, it was bound to be removed eventually, glad that cancel powerdash is gone, sorry about BM and Barbs but yea b:laugh

    Lets hope that it does not stop here, lets pray for a full bug fixing, including EVERYTHING, I hope for more of these fixes coming soon. b:chuckle

    LOL at thread title change.
  • ColdSnow - Dreamweaver
    ColdSnow - Dreamweaver Posts: 983 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    i liked the old title better..i demand a petition...someone open a new thread about it please...thank you
    If i m trolling and spamming on forum...then i cant sleep and need a good laugh
  • Random - Harshlands
    Random - Harshlands Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    honestly i feel bad for the bms for any non fish class to get nerfed in this day and age where 80% of the server is an OP sin. sure they nerfed the sins but it really hardly effects them else we would have atleast 100 pages of QQ from the every sin on every server.

    but then again thats just me
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  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
    The 1/2 page proof explaining the differance in absolute and relative percentages and converting the def vs attack level forula back and froth between the 2 wasent enough for you? The one with actual math in it and not blind repitition of a formula that can be disproven by running a simple test in the calculator? This is the same Fleuri who swears sage archers are amazing in pvp and who tried to reverse a multiplication problem by multiplying again by the same factor in that thread right? Yup shure showed me a thing or 2.

    On the current topic, theres the top bm's on every server claiming that thanks to this nerf bm's are a dead class, and most of the exped wizzies, sins, and assorted other classes. Then theres assored *** hats who shoot their mouths off about how its "a good thing" because either A: they like the idea that theres now a gimp class to kill farm, Or B they're just plain ignorant.

    How is it disproven by running a simple test in the calculator? What test would you run?

    It's not blind repetition because it made sense.

    If an opponent had 100 attack levels and you had non, the opponent does 100% more damage.

    If an opponent had 100 attack levels and you had 2, he now does 98% more damage.

    This is why I chose to divide by 1.98

    Don't know where 0.51 came from. Seriously.
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    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • Dakuken - Dreamweaver
    Dakuken - Dreamweaver Posts: 196 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Ceiba - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Well what is done is done, no point in QQing over a bug exploit, it was bound to be removed eventually, glad that cancel powerdash is gone, sorry about BM and Barbs but yea b:laugh

    Lets hope that it does not stop here, lets pray for a full bug fixing, including EVERYTHING, I hope for more of these fixes coming soon. b:chuckle

    LOL at thread title change.

    Yeah good luck that..

    They've shown they can mess with skills, hell they went and royally ****ed us for PvP so... now that we know they have the ability... Why don't you get around to finally nerfing the fish? That or give us our damn CCing back.
  • Joshcja - Sanctuary
    Joshcja - Sanctuary Posts: 3,502 Arc User
    edited June 2011
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    How is it disproven by running a simple test in the calculator? What test would you run?

    You really dont read posts do you? Said it all once, too lazy to do it again.

    Here if i loan you a +12 g 15 weapon will my text be visible?
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