if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

Instances that are done once a week? THATS EXACTLY THE POINT. 10s of millions of coins are gotten from doing these events in about 30min a day, while someone else makes the same amount from farming for HOURS.

You don't need APS for Warsong BH...People were tanking it with a Lunar Bow last year before they ever got the idea of 5.0. As for the full instance, I haven't done it. Warsong is obviously not on anyone's priority for money-making

You don't need APS for FC are you nuts? People were and are still doing the instance while in their lvl70s. Look at that wizard complaining about not getting into Frost that's terrible. People used to get to lvl 100 on cube alone, before it gave 1m exp per run.

I'm not even going to humor Nirvana, because it sucks. Cube is better money/time than Nirvana. You had no idea did you?

APS was the unfair money maker LAST SUMMER when people rolled APS toons and dominated contribution charts of multiple classes with their alts. Even then, it was a twice-a-day event, about 20min each. Nobody with a full time job and family farms day in and day out for what they need.

Now about TT

It's not that a squad doesn't want you because you lack DD, it's that a squad without DD would FAIL. Walk into 3-x TT, and tell me APS characters are the ones that are making it HARDER for you.

and about Nirvana, it sucks

Yes, strictly speaking the game doesnt forbid non-aps classes from joining the instances. And every instances CAN be done without aps. Problem is, because of the existence of 5aps, are you given a chance to do so nowadays?

BUT, like i said earlier, have you seen any world chat (not my chat ok) that doesnt say "Need APS DD for nirvana", "need sins/bm for FC" "Looking for sins/bms for TT3-3"

You can argue with that squad maker that its fine to let you in as a wiz, it kinda gets tiring having to argue against EVERY squad maker so that you even get a spot. We're better off just switch to our aps alt and get into the squad peacefully.

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm not denying the advantages that APS characters have in instances, but to say that they are the ones making PvE harder for everyone else is plain ignorance. I've outlined events that can potentially make 50m+ a week without the use of APS gears, and you tell me you're unsatisfied and still can't farm Nirvana with a wizard?

Don't you get it about TT? What attempts at 3-2/3-3 have been made without APS characters and have succeeded/were profitable? APS characters were not the ones preventing people from farming 3-x TT, APS characters are the ones that make it possible. You can't say it's APS characters' fault that a wizard can't get into TT, because without APS characters, NO ONE WOULD BE FARMING THAT TT, especially since mat prices are capped by chip prices.

And let me elaborate on why Nirvana sucks. Who the hell wants Nirvana now anyways except for some APS farmers who need the -int leggings or -int daggers? Without the existence of APS, would anyone really farm it? The only thing that keeps Nirvana from being total **** is the possibility of increasing APS with it. I mean, Nirvana on average is already not up there for money-making, but seriously, who would want Nirvana if APS was gone? Which BM or Sin would go for the 2nd cast leggings? Which Sin would go for first cast dagger? What market would there be for Nirvana especially with CHEAP RANK? Nirvana would be VERY EXPENSIVE FASHION because it looks pretty.

The real question is, without the existence of APS, WOULD YOU BE GIVEN A CHANCE TO DO ANY OF THOSE?

Hai Qui!b:cute As a '09 (or maybe older, idk rlly xD) in 1 word or phrase, what do u think about this change from our good 'ol days of common sense and real fun?b:question

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

private server is one thing, PWI is another.
If you can't make the diff out of it, you have a problem.
On privates with 2-3 days on non stop crafting you can get insta cast mage or 5 aps BM. Archer is the suckiest in Private S just because his natural def suck.
In Private servers no one complains about imbalance because it's what it is: PRIVATE server. You can have a max geared and refined char in under a week. Don't like it? change. Takes many months and a lot of effort to do that in PWI. I know, I played on Vendetta, Fake, Sublime and tried a few other I didn't really like. And you learn PVP on privat servers? ROFLMAO... Air pvp is not existant , because you do half dmg. Ground PvP is all about who forgets to equip charm(or hiero). PPL hit 250k+ crits on eachother, how can you learn PvP with stuff like that? At best you learn how to avoing being killed. Well, actually I guess that nightmare of yours was why you rolled a sin in the first place.
So take your private server and shove it where sun doens't shine, to compare those things with PWI is just plain out stupid

Actually the private servers i played have nothing to do with those crappy ones u mentioned. Those are not pw servers...those are bad jokes. On the private server i play took me 1 year to reach lvl 150. I lvl faster on pwi than i do there because there are no quests there. It takes ages to lvl crafting skills etc. Not all private servers are like vendetta or fake pw.
As for the "shove thing" ...oh well...i expceted much more maturity and respect from the ppl here. Guess i was wrong

Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »

From a PvE perspective (wrt soloing for profit) (...)Goes back to watching every sin on the server get into a FC before me.

It's the same in most games. Mele classes farm much better than magic ones as for the fact that ppl here can't match builts from private servers ....i think you are wrong. I noticed that a lot of ppl showed up with +10 equips over night. That kinda allows ppl to adopt what build they want. $$ power is felt even better than on private servers.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well, I guess the meaning was "5 aps is so OP it's hard for any1 else to make something significant in PvE"


@Ruxal
Dude, drop it, don't even try.
Private servers have no cost in running anything. 3 mil HP/MP charms at the cost of killing 1 mob at west gate. Come on, this kind of discussion is not worth the wear and tear on the keyboard.

With this crazy lvling up (4 hours of hypers+2-3 quests got my archer to 55 from lvl 1) transforms the server drastically.If lvling is easy then farming should be too.You can easy make a farming char. As for 5 aps....archers could always reach 5 aps without any tome, nv pants or robe when using fists. It's from loooong ago.
Not on al private servers charms are bought with the drop from a mob. On some private servers you must farm a few hours to get it. 2x Servers exist and they are populated. Same for other types.
There i saw BM doing combo stun..here i didn't. there i saw archers taking advantage of their range...here i didn't. Each server has it's advantages and disadvantages. In my opinion pwi sux for PvP but on the other hand it has best PvE. People here complain about 5 aps since they are somehow frustrated (in pvp mostly) but main fact is that 5 aps is not rly a problem as long as the wep used is fist or dagger. Nobody complains that archer gets +128 atk level with r9 items and that it can 1 hit anything.

NatureLover - Harshlands wrote: »

Other classes have a hard time getting into squads because aps classes (with same equipment value and level) are preferred.
(.....)And since you've alrdy got your aps, you wish not the nerf for aps b:chuckle

I am not interval sin. I preffer Damage more than interval but i have no problems in finding squads and my items are not that great since i just started making my char.It's a matter of will. Who wants can find squad.


Problem is that people like to complain. It's human nature to do that. When 5 aps will disapear people will complain about something else. And then when that something else will not be an issue any more new problems will appear. What pwi administration must take in consideration is that all the ppl who complain about aps didn't quit until now and that they managed to survive somehow (they benefit from aps clases too since they buy stuff farmed by them). On the other hand if the mele classes will be striped of their advantages server would suffer a severe crash and even though new patch is promising the rate of cash shoppers will diminish. No cash shoppers = no more pwi.
What i try to do here is not stand up for 5 aps ppl because i play sin but stand up for 5 aps because it is not that much of a problem as ppl say it is. In fact it's a benefit, a benefit that advantages both side (pwi team and players).

NatureLover - Harshlands wrote: »

Yes, strictly speaking the game doesnt forbid non-aps classes from joining the instances. And every instances CAN be done without aps. Problem is, because of the existence of 5aps, are you given a chance to do so nowadays?

BUT, like i said earlier, have you seen any world chat (not my chat ok) that doesnt say "Need APS DD for nirvana", "need sins/bm for FC" "Looking for sins/bms for TT3-3"

You can argue with that squad maker that its fine to let you in as a wiz, it kinda gets tiring having to argue against EVERY squad maker so that you even get a spot. We're better off just switch to our aps alt and get into the squad peacefully.

I want to see proof of a 3-3 being done without APS.



The only way to be able to do 3-3 since the change is to kill the bosses before they can purge/stun your entire squad and one shot your cleric.

You really think the reason it was changed is because 5aps were farming it too easily? Venos were soloing up to 3-1 way before 5aps came into affect. I know a veno who was making 150m a weekend farming 1-3 during double drop. One weekend.

Squad setup?

Veno
Veno dualing something (forgot what it was)

Veno's friend veno
Veno's friend veno dualing cleric

Don't you people remember the threads about "lack of endgame content" way back? About how boring endgame instances were?

It means PWI clearly did not think people soloing a squad-based instance was OP, or those instances would have become insane as well.

3-x TT really wasn't much harder except for Armageddon. It got changed because people clamored for endgame content and challenge.

Lol I'm sure they nerfed it because of venos... right.

Venos are balanced when it comes to soloing instances. Could they solo it? Yes. Could it be done a hell of a lot faster with a squad? Yes.

5 aps? One 5 aps now = old TT squads before 5 aps.

One or two 5 aps characters can do a TT faster than a full squad of non -int characters.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

And there are sins that spend all day soloing FCC, which may be why FCC exp gets totally nerfed. b:victory One class can nerf something for everyone.

BM can solo even faster than sin. Can do pulls...stun...dragon...aoe...an Voilla! End of frost. He can even spark if using 1k pots that provide him with 2 chi.
I was today in frost with r9 EA that can solo frost as well (faster than sins)
Well equiped barb can solo too
Veno can solo as well
Well equiped mage class can solo and perhaps even cleric with good items.

Conclusion: Any class can solo Frost. The fact that sin can stealth it's way to bosses and kills only them is quite a loss because best xp is coming from pulls. What's wrong in soloing a dungeon btw? There are many ppl close to max lvl anyway.

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Of course nirvana is easy, everyone is running around with 5 aps. Stop using the best gear you can possibly get and things won't be so easy.

Do nirvana with TT90 gear +2 or something and no aps. It'll be much more of a challenge I'm sure.

Takes around 1 hour with low aps and trust me....after 2 runs with crappy drops u don;t feel like doing nirvana anymore.
Let's face it! 5 aps makes the game run smoother and faster. Who wants this game to go slow can choose to do so on his own or within his group of friends. Whoever wants this game to move fast should have the chance to obtain it.

VyperionV - Lost City wrote: »

BM can solo even faster than sin. Can do pulls...stun...dragon...aoe...an Voilla! End of frost. He can even spark if using 1k pots that provide him with 2 chi.
I was today in frost with r9 EA that can solo frost as well (faster than sins)
Well equiped barb can solo too
Veno can solo as well
Well equiped mage class can solo and perhaps even cleric with good items.

Conclusion: Any class can solo Frost. The fact that sin can stealth it's way to bosses and kills only them is quite a loss because best xp is coming from pulls. What's wrong in soloing a dungeon btw? There are many ppl close to max lvl anyway.

remotely less xp per run, but a very well geared sin can even do big room pull/dragons with their meager aoes. regardless of this, sins can do more runs in less time, making their effectiveness ridiculous.

VyperionV - Lost City wrote: »

Takes around 1 hour with low aps and trust me....after 2 runs with crappy drops u don;t feel like doing nirvana anymore.
Let's face it! 5 aps makes the game run smoother and faster. Who wants this game to go slow can choose to do so on his own or within his group of friends. Whoever wants this game to move fast should have the chance to obtain it.

they probably made the drop rate so low because everyone rolled aps chars.

It's ridiculous that you are almost forced to play a bm to 100 to get gears for your main class atm. Not to mention that classes like bm and aps barbs have lost their own meaning as to their original roles in squad.

Fix aps, increase drop rates, problem solved.

To OP, yes PWI does unfortunately have to follow PWCN, they have a contract with them and all patch notes are sent from China to here. PWI devs/reps really don't have that much control over what is sent to us.

Also, if someone could give me a link that provides concrete evidence on the nerfed APS matter that would be great.

There are a lot more rumors floating around with this expansion a lot more than the last one.

...did'nt we have threads like this before? >_>

abit necro but... i can only say one thing.. its not the 5aps. its mainly sins.

seriously stealth has made this game 10000000x easier and more boring. you see those fast fc squads sin only. they ignore all mobs and just run to bosses. takes few mins to clear whole fc bosses till exp room. then they sell it or change to alts or what so ever.

id say make stealth work only in pvp. raise elite monsters(instances) stealth detection to like 90000 so you can abuse stealth in instances but you could use it outside of instances on normal monsters... that way you actually have to clear your way normally to bosses etc... like it was meant to be.

also to balance out pvp there should be detection+++ gears or high apo lvl detection potions.

also these guys talking about 5aps bms being easy.. ofcourse they are. you also forget sin got that wacky teleport attack which makes ranged kiting useless because they can just teleport next to you from long range.

bms cant do that. quite same with seekers tho... those teleports are quite lame. not to mention after sin does that you cant get away because they got alot more move speed. + (maze steps).

so are you saying sin isnt unbalanced? i say 5aps isnt unbalanced its just that sin is unbalanced. in harshlands i see all the time spam in wc *making full sin squad nirv/fc/bh..* what ever D; its always either 333-5aps sin/bm squad mostly sin. i got turned away on most squads with my wiz. i have +10 gears and around -48% channeling. still sin's and bm's outdamage it easily. (cant get squads. except if askin faction/friends and not even then always. everyone looking for aps and/or sin).

i dont mind that im also making 5aps bm. just 4 more lvls and its done.

could say on my wiz i can pretty much own majority of bm's and barbs in pvp but almost never won against good sin. seekers are coming up as 2nd hardest after sin from melee classes.

mainly because they have void step and they hit like 5x more dmg than bm's with skills. really even seekers zhen does like double/triple dmg compared to wizzies zhen(atm seeker is best aoe class for any situation).

you can flame all you want. aps isnt unbalanced, stealth is. so PW just nerf stealth. its making this game unbalanced. after stealth came. you can solo all instances super fast n easy mainly because of it.

just my 2 coins~

edit: about post top of me from vyper dood. Archers can 1 shot anybody. I'd preffer doing that instead of having 5 aps...don;t u agree? Same for mages. R9 is trully magnificient ... wizzies cant 1shot. either can archers 1shot at end game... even thought you get around 20k matk quite easily with r9 wizzie weapon. you can get alot mdef with bm easily or with barb. and you will have around 15-30k hp. and if its TW you will have all buffs too.. so your wiz hits wont hurt so much..forgot apo pots too.. though wiz can use them too if theyre smart.. oh and genie skills D;

lets say divine pyrogram. around 20k + (weapon dmg around uhh 2400-2600~when +12) so 300% * 2400 + skill dmg 4900~ = so you do around 32k dmg. fiiinee...

my bm can get easily around 78-82% magic def with buffs. so basicly that shot will deal around 6k dmg to me. oh wait. i forgot to mention i have around 28k hp when buffed by barb too.. so lets see... about 4~5 of those hits to kill me... oh i forgot i have pots and charm too so ... no idea. you cant kinda rpk kill me... except maybe with on ur 12% crit chance. lucky crits few times in row to get past my charm and quickly go tru my hp before it refreshes... yeeaah... and ofc go tru my pots/genie skills too.

on other hand with fists or r9 axes what so ever bm will hit ALMOST equal damage each hit on WIZ with end game gears + best shards etc... because ur pdef wont get so super high... oh on top of that you will only have around 13-14k hp non barb buffed and like 16-20k with buff.. so bm will hit around 4-6k to you too. make it crit.. 8-12k oh wait make it crit zerk 16-24k...

see how it goes? oh wait make it sin. you wont even have that chance to hit him once or well actually even time to react before he stealth/ tele kicks ur face and kills you in few hits.

but like i said genie/apo pots etc affect pvp/tw etc stuff quite alot... but in RAW power and damage dealing. wiz stays behind. same with archer. thats mainly because of aps and high lvl phys. weapons have bigger dmg modifier/ alot higher base dmg + ZERK. zerk is what makes phys deal more DPH than wizzies end game. dps wise aps always win.

and before you go spamming DIPS!!!! okay okay.. with 80% magic def ur dips will deal only around 9k~(with r9 +12 weapon etc etc full mag build) and around 18k with crits. okay its nice but not enough to 1hit bm or barb especially if barb buffed/cler buffs. (of ir they use any mdef shards.. you can get 80% mdef without magic def shards...)

Closed for necro.