if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???

Iulius - Heavens Tear · January 2011

this is time for you to accept they give a **** about you and they do what they whant and you keep spending real money into this even that you troll/QQ each day for what ever they change

DaKillanator - Raging Tide · January 2011

Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »

^ This.

^This
People just need to accept Summer's acceptance of what is now acceptable in this game, even if there are some accepted exceptions

Bollocks - Raging Tide · January 2011

If they nerf it there, they will do it here. Just look at all the other changes they made. They were made cause of the situation on PWCN, had nothing to do with PWI but were still implanted here.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Nerf APS and make it fun to play mage classes again?

Nerf APS and make it less fun to play something you spent a bajillion coins on, and possibly a great deal of real cash? I dunno...

As for if PW CN does something, PWI HAS to follow... Well, look at DQ changes. They changed DQ vendor prices, and PWI did the same, even though "It wasn't fair to PWI players", and so they invented DQ Rewards.

So to some extent, yes, they do. Probably PW CN tells PWI what they can and cannot change, and the extent of what they can change.

Part of me would be happy with an APS nerf. It's broken. But just bumping down the maximum obtainable APS isn't really a fix, it screws everyone who worked REALLY hard to get that APS, and gives nothing to anyone else.

Make mage classes more powerful, like, -channeling, maybe? We've been asking for it for a long time. Make it more effective, or effect skill cooldown time as well.

This isn't something where you can change a number and fix it... Just bumping 5.0 down to 4.0 or 2.5 won't fix it, because it's still broken, by the way the system is designed. You have to design around the flaw, or design it out, not slap a bandaid on it and be happy with it.

bajillion coins and a great deal of cash? Are you kidding me? I raised a 4 aps soon to be 5 aps BM for farm with half the gear I had on my wiz a year ago. I have a +7 deicide now, nothing amazing, but good enough to produce rank8 for my wiz and farm the rest of the gear for 5 aps.
So cut the bullcrap about how much it costs to have a farming aps char pls, this is just a way to scare other ppl off so there's less competition.

Traz - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

3.33 sins which is actually 5 aps sins sparked.
I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but just 3.33 aps without spark won't take aggro off a r8 wizard even. R9? roflmao, at least 50% damage lvl, are you joking? Your fked up understanding of aps and dmg and passing it on is what creates a lot of misinformed nubs in this game.
non rank9 3.33 sparked sin with same refines as wizard I don't think it will outdamage it. It's kinda' hard to make a comparison since it's hard to find two equally geared chars, but i guess the damage difference won't be big, not even close to a factor of 2 or 3.b:chuckle that's just plain stupid

if APS is nerfed to 3.33 when I spark i'll be :O :O 3.33.....and you or any other wizard cannot will not and shall not be taking any aggro or out DDing me. I'm sorry you have a hard time reading what people say. b:bye

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

wanna try it? really, I'm ready to.
I don't know what wizards you're playing with usually, but a 3.33 barb or BM will hardly take aggro off a Lunar wiz. R8 and R9, you make me lol.

And yeah, I have a R8 wiz and a +7 deicide 4 aps (soon 5 aps) BM, I have a pretty good feeling how much dmg both do.

I don't know what you're smoking, but I want two.

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

bajillion coins and a great deal of cash? Are you kidding me? I raised a 4 aps soon to be 5 aps BM for farm with half the gear I had on my wiz a year ago. I have a +7 deicide now, nothing amazing, but good enough to produce rank8 for my wiz and farm the rest of the gear for 5 aps.
So cut the bullcrap about how much it costs to have a farming aps char pls, this is just a way to scare other ppl off so there's less competition.

Might want to be more specific on when this R8 was farmed.

Congratulations. You got +7 Deicides, which probably costs around 70m+ anyway, raised up a 4APS BM, which probably costs at least 4 pieces of TT99 and a Lunar Wing Trophy (what is that about 120m+?), and farmed 72m R8. Wooohoooo!

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

yup.
The diff is now I have 1 4 aps fully geared BM and I have all the gear on my wiz back, well, even better.
Fair trade. Plus, the only thing limiting my coin making now is the time I have ingame.
I can make cash with aps and finance wiz/seeker or whatever else comes along.
If I wouldn't have done that, I would have had a slightly better gear wiz...and nothing else.

And the point was to combat the "gazilion coin" concept that has been ... promoted?... for so long.

Traz - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

wanna try it? really, I'm ready to.
I don't know what wizards you're playing with usually, but a 3.33 barb or BM will hardly take aggro off a Lunar wiz. R8 and R9, you make me lol.

And yeah, I have a R8 wiz and a +7 deicide 4 aps (soon 5 aps) BM, I have a pretty good feeling how much dmg both do.

I don't know what you're smoking, but I want two.

My sin (in a standard squad) does (if it was 3.33 sparked) 45k standard damage and on HF 175k a second, good luck.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

so you're saying you do an average of 15k/hit on a boss with no debuffs?
+12 nirvana daggers maybe? cause I can't see what else could have that dmg and I'm pretty sure you're actually BS-ing for that 175k/sec over HF. That might be the output dmg of a good aps squad, lol.
Compare with +12 rank8 then. Think about the fact that as wiz I can spark 3 times in a 1 minute span and that's quite a dmg output.
I'm sure you'll be amazed.
Hard to compare I know, since not a lot of wizards/psy have +12. Well, a lot less than aps classes anyway.

Depends a lot on what PWI does to nerf aps. If they change the way aps is stacking that can have impact, meaning you won't be able to get 3.33 with gears, you will hit only a max of 2.8...or less, however they think of doing it.
If they just cap the aps at 3.33...well...then not much will change. Sins will still be able to permaspark and so will BMs with chi skill on genie.

As I said before, aps power in PvE comes from permaspark. Take that away and -int class dynamic will change dramatically.

Quilue - Sanctuary · January 2011

I can believe 175k/s over HF. This is probably raw damage dealt, not damage actually received by the boss (factoring in 1/4 reduction for being lvl ?).

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

well, do we talk about what dmg we think we do (raw dmg dealt before reduction) or the damage that pops up in numbers above the boss (real dmg dealt) ? Because how I understood was that during that 6 sec of HF he can output 175k x 6 = 1.05 mil worth of dmg.

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

well, do we talk about what dmg we think we do (raw dmg dealt before reduction) or the damage that pops up in numbers above the boss (real dmg dealt) ? Because how I understood was that during that 6 sec of HF he can output 175k x 6 = 1.05 mil worth of dmg.

b:surrender

You're completely incapable of understanding anyone's point, ever.

Did you not have any friends as a child?

If they cut max APS to 2.5 or 2.0, would you be happy? <--My initial point.

"OMG YOAR A CASHSHOPPER AND GET NOTHING OUT OF HIGH APS!" <-- What you took my initial point as??? Am I even close?

You know what, I'm so tired, I don't really care, actually.

I think APS should be limited to the maximum an archer can get with a crossbow.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

are you posting monologues on forums now?

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

are you posting monologues on forums now?

I read that as "Blah blah blah".

Martiin - Archosaur · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

so you're saying you do an average of 15k/hit on a boss with no debuffs?
+12 nirvana daggers maybe? cause I can't see what else could have that dmg and I'm pretty sure you're actually BS-ing for that 175k/sec over HF. That might be the output dmg of a good aps squad, lol.

4.2m hp nirvana boss dead in 20 seconds, HF + amp + (5)5aps. (after nurf)

You do the math.

I can believe 175k/sec over HF with crit's taken into account. Considering we are talking about a sin..then yea its possible.

Maragon - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Martiin - Archosaur wrote: »

4.2m hp nirvana boss dead in 20 seconds, HF + amp + (5)5aps. (after nurf)

You do the math.

I can believe 175k/sec over HF with crit's taken into account. Considering we are talking about a sin..then yea its possible.

well here's some math. http://pwcalc.ru/pwi/?char=032dba1c4eaa94ef this is with a R8 sin using TT99 dagger +5 2 immac if you dont click the link

this toon (taking emblem and crits into account and adding 2% crit and a little damage because pwcalc didnt have demon dagger devo as an option) has raw damage 16605 before boss defenses per hit which is over 55k dps at 3.33.

that plus HF plus extreme poison plus Mire and yea you are getting pretty close. I even with non maxed skills I have seen my damage nearly quadrupled from debuffs. my fist bm in the mid 80s on a moderately debuffed [?] boss in FC has hit 2000 - 2500 non sparked and I dont have insane gear.

Traz - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

I can believe 175k/s over HF. This is probably raw damage dealt, not damage actually received by the boss (factoring in 1/4 reduction for being lvl ?).

That's not rawr damage. You put me in my squad of 4 and I've hit for 60k crits (72k was max but that's every debuff ever) in 3-Xs. Full out my seconds are over 250k in those instances of most debuffs on....that's just the broken damage of an almost maxed sin. I could easily pull a 20k/20k/8k second with just my subsea, wolf emblem, frenzy, and tangling mire (3.0 mind you not another .33 of a hit on top of that). Now you go and factor in HF, another bm glacial, cleric debuffs, devour, etc an you got your self a very scary second roughly around 175k (at 3.33 sparked if my sin was nerfed from 5.0).

EDIT: I'm not even +12 yet just +10 and I don't have my helm for 5 more atk lvls and another 30 dex after helm + level. My atks can easily go from consistant 50ks with full on debuff/buffs to 70k with that upgrade...maybe more. Broken end game sins are broken is the moral of the story.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · January 2011

now we're talking.
squad of 4, all debuffs ingame and stuff.
That's a whole diff story at a whole diff lvl ...

My sin (in a standard squad) does (if it was 3.33 sparked) 45k standard damage and on HF 175k a second, good luck.

From your original post I understand you have that output sparked + HF only. To me that "standard" squad didn't mean "all debuffs/buffs ingame"...

Traz - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

now we're talking.
squad of 4, all debuffs ingame and stuff.
That's a whole diff story at a whole diff lvl ...

From your original post I understand you have that output sparked + HF only. To me that "standard" squad didn't mean "all debuffs/buffs ingame"...

Why wouldn't I use my subsea, wolf emblem, frenzy, and tangling if I got a HF......for you to think I wouldn't is stupid. The only other thing to tack to that would be devour and cleric debuff (don't normally have second BM for glacial). My standard is 45k /sec with just MY buffs....make no sense to say my standard without my buffs/debuffs....

Shintoh - Raging Tide · January 2011

Regenbogen - Lost City wrote: »

lingzi?

1.TROLL b:bye
2.SOURCE for PWCN APS nerv

If they do, the barbs might come out of their caves again because they'll actually have some use at endgame... now if they start ordering ppl around because they tank, then kick their sorry butts outta the squad (PK 'em too, if on a PvP Server b:sin) and get a nice barb.

If the APS Nerf comes, the barbs have a chance to make a better comeback. and yes, I have a barb, too b:victory

Traz - Dreamweaver · January 2011

Shintoh - Raging Tide wrote: »

If they do, the barbs might come out of their caves again because they'll actually have some use at endgame... now if they start ordering ppl around because they tank, then kick their sorry butts outta the squad (PK 'em too, if on a PvP Server b:sin) and get a nice barb.

If the APS Nerf comes, the barbs have a chance to make a better comeback. and yes, I have a barb, too b:victory

Unless ppl get nerfed to 2.5 or less no we wont.

Nepttys - Lost City · February 2011

b:dirty YAY LETS NERF APS, OF COUSE WE WILL GET MORE FUNN DOING 1 NV RUN IN 1 HOR OR MORE HAVING A CLERIC, A WIZIE, AN AXE BM (NO SINS CAUSE NO APS) A XBOW ARCHER, A BARB WITH POLE OR AXE AND A PHYSIC, ULL STAY INNV FOR ABOUT 1 HOUR AND WHEN U FINIHSH, OMG 3 UNKANIES A LOT OF FLAWLESS SO ABOUT 200K A RUN b:dirty YAY THAT WOULD BE COOL (YEAH STUPID QQS DIE ALL!)b:bye ( I WISH U CAN UNWRAPT UR BAIN AND LET IT THINK FOR SEG)

Rawrgh - Raging Tide · February 2011

If they do, the barbs might come out of their caves again because they'll actually have some use at endgame... now if they start ordering ppl around because they tank, then kick their sorry butts outta the squad (PK 'em too, if on a PvP Server ) and get a nice barb.

If the APS Nerf comes, the barbs have a chance to make a better comeback. and yes, I have a barb, too

Have you tried to hold aggro from a +10 rank 8 bow?

Even with a nerf on APS barbs wont tank.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Nepttys - Lost City wrote: »

b:dirty YAY LETS NERF APS, OF COUSE WE WILL GET MORE FUNN DOING 1 NV RUN IN 1 HOR OR MORE HAVING A CLERIC, A WIZIE, AN AXE BM (NO SINS CAUSE NO APS) A XBOW ARCHER, A BARB WITH POLE OR AXE AND A PHYSIC, ULL STAY INNV FOR ABOUT 1 HOUR AND WHEN U FINIHSH, OMG 3 UNKANIES A LOT OF FLAWLESS SO ABOUT 200K A RUN b:dirty YAY THAT WOULD BE COOL (YEAH STUPID QQS DIE ALL!)b:bye ( I WISH U CAN UNWRAPT UR BAIN AND LET IT THINK FOR SEG)

take ur own advice.

hint: uncannies/raptures dont have a fixed value.
unless u npc them. in that case i'll buy them from u for 2 coins; 100% better price

Ursa - Dreamweaver · February 2011

yeah, like keeping 5 aps and the current game mechanics is actually fair. "I wish you can unwrapt ur brain and let it think for seg".
APS nerf won't help anyone, because of one very important thing: Sins will still outdamage everyone by a factor of 2 and no one will think about getting wizards/non aps archers/psy in a squad anyway.
What would really help would be an instance like nirvana (or a nirvana mod) where aoe dd's could rule the game. Something with mobs spawns like RB, just instead of having a boss in a nirvana room have 100 mobs spawning ... I dunno, haven't put much thought in it, but yeah, I could handle a swarm of mobs coming at me, no probs. Make them small range mag attk ones, just to ** up even more melee aps classes and there u go, a hell where no aps will be happy to enter and a heaven for arcane aoe DDs.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

yeah, like keeping 5 aps and the current game mechanics is actually fair. "I wish you can unwrapt ur brain and let it think for seg".
APS nerf won't help anyone, because of one very important thing: Sins will still outdamage everyone by a factor of 2 and no one will think about getting wizards/non aps archers/psy in a squad anyway.
What would really help would be an instance like nirvana (or a nirvana mod) where aoe dd's could rule the game. Something with mobs spawns like RB, just instead of having a boss in a nirvana room have 100 mobs spawning ... I dunno, haven't put much thought in it, but yeah, I could handle a swarm of mobs coming at me, no probs. Make them small range mag attk ones, just to ** up even more melee aps classes and there u go, a hell where no aps will be happy to enter and a heaven for arcane aoe DDs.

*drools*

i am so solo'ing that xd

ElderSig - Dreamweaver · February 2011

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

*drools*

i am so solo'ing that xd

/inb4omgcastersaresoOPitsnotfairfor5apspeeps

Nepttys - Lost City · February 2011

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver wrote: »

take ur own advice.

hint: uncannies/raptures dont have a fixed value.
unless u npc them. in that case i'll buy them from u for 2 coins; 100% better price

1. ure stupid and u didnt understand my sarcasm ( as i told before go and unwrap ur brain and let it think for a seg)
2. the price was an aproximate value and divided on a squad of 6, in my server uncanies are about 470k (when ure selling to a cat shop) (470k X 3= 1410k /6=235k)
3. squad like the one ive stated would last for about 1 hour in NV.
4. raptures/uncanies dont have a fixed aount x run, its just a drop rate so u can have less than 3 unkies + a lot of flawles ****
5. omg im losing time to a fail sin? nvm ive said nothing b:shocked

b:chuckle

ElderSig - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Nepttys - Lost City wrote: »

1. ure stupid and u didnt understand my sarcasm ( as i told before go and unwrap ur brain and let it think for a seg)
2. the price was an aproximate value and divided on a squad of 6, in my server uncanies are about 470k (when ure selling to a cat shop) (470k X 3= 1410k /6=235k)
3. squad like the one ive stated would last for about 1 hour in NV.
4. raptures/uncanies dont have a fixed aount x run, its just a drop rate so u can have less than 3 unkies + a lot of flawles ****
5. omg im losing time to a fail sin? nvm ive said nothing b:shocked

b:chuckle

What thanos was getting at was.... if the average nirvana becomes harder/longer to do then the price of uncannies goes up, therefore the change of money/time isn't as affected as you're stating.

if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???

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