if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Nepttys - Lost City wrote: »

1. ure stupid and u didnt understand my sarcasm ( as i told before go and unwrap ur brain and let it think for a seg)
what is this seg u keep talking about?

2. the price was an aproximate value and divided on a squad of 6, in my server uncanies are about 470k (when ure selling to a cat shop) (470k X 3= 1410k /6=235k)
get some accuracy rings, u keep missing the point

3. squad like the one ive stated would last for about 1 hour in NV.
aw

4. raptures/uncanies dont have a fixed aount x run, its just a drop rate so u can have less than 3 unkies + a lot of flawles ****
oh really.

5. omg im losing time to a fail sin? nvm ive said nothing b:shocked b:chuckle
look at ur avatar. now look at mine.

so basically u say that nerfing aps will result to 1h NV runs which is awful,cruel and unfair?
yould you ragequit perhaps?

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2011

What is wrong with you people? Canny/Rap prices would never go up much because otherwise people would just get

R 9

Have we forgotten about R9 or something?? Who the hell would buy canny/rap at raised prices when they can have R9?

As of now it's almost the same price for a full set of Nirv second cast versus R9, despite the extra cost of the ring.

Let me break this down for you:

1 Medal of Glory: Grind this, or buy a bunch of DQ from Cat Shop
1 Token: about 5.33 gold

gold: 850k avg atm on Sanctuary

R9:
Weapon: 85 Tokens = about 454 gold, roughly 386m
Body, Leggings, Wrists, Shoes: 14 Tokens each = about 75 gold, roughly 63.75m * 4
Ring: 32 Tokens, about 171 gold, roughly 145m

Altogether that is about 800m of chips in total taking AH fees into account if you are on Sanct.

About the medals, you can grind some, or buy some DQ from cat shop. Altogether it shouldn't be more than 200m for the medals. Think about it, 20k DQP for a medal = about 667 DQ91s, can you set up a shop to buy for 12k each? So each DQ costs you about 9k? That's about 186m for the 31 Medals in total (20 for wep, 2 each for body, leggings, shoes, wrist, 3 for ring).

986m total for R9, excluding the sash.

Canny Prices: 450k
Rap Prices: 1.8m

Nirvana 2nd Cast:
Weapon: 250 Raps: 450m total
Body, Leggings, Wrists, Shoes, 250 Cannies each: 450m total

For a total of 900m in crystals. Not to mention rerolling your 2nd cast weapon also costs money. I seriously see no reason to buy Raps as of now.

Now you might ask, what about the rep cost? Well, what about the TT99/Lunar you'd have to get for Nirvana?

Nepttys - Lost City · February 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

What is wrong with you people? Canny/Rap prices would never go up much because otherwise people would just get

R 9

Have we forgotten about R9 or something?? Who the hell would buy canny/rap at raised prices when they can have R9?

As of now it's almost the same price for a full set of Nirv second cast versus R9, despite the extra cost of the ring.

Let me break this down for you:

1 Medal of Glory: Grind this, or buy a bunch of DQ from Cat Shop
1 Token: about 5.33 gold

gold: 850k avg atm on Sanctuary

R9:
Weapon: 85 Tokens = about 454 gold, roughly 386m
Body, Leggings, Wrists, Shoes: 14 Tokens each = about 75 gold, roughly 63.75m * 4
Ring: 32 Tokens, about 171 gold, roughly 145m

Altogether that is about 800m of chips in total taking AH fees into account if you are on Sanct.

About the medals, you can grind some, or buy some DQ from cat shop. Altogether it shouldn't be more than 200m for the medals. Think about it, 20k DQP for a medal = about 667 DQ91s, can you set up a shop to buy for 12k each? So each DQ costs you about 9k? That's about 186m for the 31 Medals in total (20 for wep, 2 each for body, leggings, shoes, wrist, 3 for ring).

986m total for R9, excluding the sash.

Canny Prices: 450k
Rap Prices: 1.8m

Nirvana 2nd Cast:
Weapon: 250 Raps: 450m total
Body, Leggings, Wrists, Shoes, 250 Cannies each: 450m total

For a total of 900m in crystals. Not to mention rerolling your 2nd cast weapon also costs money. I seriously see no reason to buy Raps as of now.

Now you might ask, what about the rep cost? Well, what about the TT99/Lunar you'd have to get for Nirvana?

ive to admit it ure ****** right, the problem is... R9 was created for sage sins which are spike damane not aps (demon) (in my case demon sin) i think it goes for bms too, so its all about all clases exept demon sin/ claw/fist bms

a dmg dealer as wiz, and physic and non aps archer may be in heaven with r9 gear tho

TigerLily - Lost City · February 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

What is wrong with you people? Canny/Rap prices would never go up much because otherwise people would just get

R 9

Have we forgotten about R9 or something?? Who the hell would buy canny/rap at raised prices when they can have R9?

Yeah people tend to forget this. Prices for Nirvana/TT gold will never drop, nerfing aps will just make the instances take way longer, but the profit will be pretty much the same.

Gold mats from TT will never sell above chip prices for example, doesn't matter if no one farms TT anymore, prices for gold mats will always stay the same after the chip sales.

Nirvana mats wont go up much either since rank9 is better and already costs about the same as full Nirvana <.<

Raptures have dropped loads after rank8/9 sales btw. Casters/archers dont need them anymore so they will never go up in price. Majority of people that still buys Raptures are sins/bms that wants first cast interval weapons for 4.0/5.0 aps - which will be a total waste of coins for them if aps gets lowered. Than the entire market for raptures would be dead.

babuunas · February 2011

lol nerf the damn aps the class sin has been made to powerwfoul and becouse of that barbar numers are decresing

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · February 2011

who cares about barbar numers sin+psy duo fc ftw b:avoid

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

What is wrong with you people? Canny/Rap prices would never go up much because otherwise people would just get

R 9

Have we forgotten about R9 or something?? Who the hell would buy canny/rap at raised prices when they can have R9?

damn, i forgot that qq
mea culpa

Okeano - Harshlands · February 2011

Nepttys - Lost City wrote: »

ive to admit it ure ****** right, the problem is... R9 was created for sage sins which are spike damane not aps (demon) (in my case demon sin) i think it goes for bms too, so its all about all clases exept demon sin/ claw/fist bms

You can still have 4 APS sparked with R9 daggers as demon Sin...

For the last time, the "spike damage" difference between a sage and demon Sin is almost 0. Enough of this sage = spike BS already.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=11875572#post11875572

Lingzi - Lost City · February 2011

arnine !!!

Nepttys - Lost City · February 2011

Lingzi - Lost City wrote: »

arnine !!!

omg ling ling acept it u dont look pretty u look anorexic i love uot dont ever say that again ok? so go and put out ur sign b:cuteb:kissb:dirtyb:shutup

Olbaze - Sanctuary · February 2011

Okeano - Harshlands wrote: »

You can still have 4 APS sparked with R9 daggers as demon Sin...

For the last time, the "spike damage" difference between a sage and demon Sin is almost 0. Enough of this sage = spike BS already.

http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=11875572#post11875572

Anyone who just doesn't spout what someone else told them would find out the following:
1. Sage doesn't get "spike" damage, as their Crit% is 2% lower and the Wolf Emblem is permanent.
2. Sage doesn't do more damage, except with the AoE skills.
3. Sage gets a higher average DPH via Mastery and permanent Wolf Emblem.
4. Sages are more durable due to Bloodpaint, Focused Mind and Sage Spark.

You might argue that Demon heals more due to higher crit, higher DPS and higher APS, but durability/survivability isn't only about the heals. And Sage Focused Mind is insanely better than Demon Focused Mind: Sage has a 0.77 multiplier to all damage taken, Demon has a 0.83. So that means Sages only take ~93% of the damage Demons have to deal with. Add Sage Spark and you get Sages taking ~70% of the damage Demons take.

The only really interesting question is exactly how much the difference in Bloodpaint is. Sages get the advantage of permanent Wolf Emblem and Sage Mastery. The permanent Wolf Emblem more than covers up the 2% crit Demons get from Mastery.

So no matter how you look at it, Sages have a noticeably higher survivability.

And that's my reason for saying that Sage isn't worthless.

Nepttys - Lost City · February 2011

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Anyone who just doesn't spout what someone else told them would find out the following:
1. Sage doesn't get "spike" damage, as their Crit% is 2% lower and the Wolf Emblem is permanent.
2. Sage doesn't do more damage, except with the AoE skills.
3. Sage gets a higher average DPH via Mastery and permanent Wolf Emblem.
4. Sages are more durable due to Bloodpaint, Focused Mind and Sage Spark.

You might argue that Demon heals more due to higher crit, higher DPS and higher APS, but durability/survivability isn't only about the heals. And Sage Focused Mind is insanely better than Demon Focused Mind: Sage has a 0.77 multiplier to all damage taken, Demon has a 0.83. So that means Sages only take ~93% of the damage Demons have to deal with. Add Sage Spark and you get Sages taking ~70% of the damage Demons take.

The only really interesting question is exactly how much the difference in Bloodpaint is. Sages get the advantage of permanent Wolf Emblem and Sage Mastery. The permanent Wolf Emblem more than covers up the 2% crit Demons get from Mastery.

So no matter how you look at it, Sages have a noticeably higher survivability.

And that's my reason for saying that Sage isn't worthless.

WHERE IS THAT STATED? b:shocked SO EVEN IF IM JUST DONE MY CULTY AS DEMON IM GONNA TAGE 0.83 DAMAGE MULTIPLIER?

AND IVE TO CONFESS SOMETHING. AS A DEMON SIN I WOULD ABSOLUTELY LOVE THAT 25% DAMAGE TAKING REDUCION CAUSE ITS AWESOME U KNOW?.

NOW, IF URE FACING A NON MAGIC CLASS AS A DEMON SIN URE CLOSE TO THE NONDEATH JUST CAUSE THE EVACCION ADD ON, LIKE... IM FACING A BM... IM STALKING HIM, HE DOSNT KNOW HE'S NOT ALONE, I USE MY BP (WICH ADDS ME 50% EVASSION FOR 50 SEGS) I USE MY TIDAL PROTECT CAUSE THE THING THAT KILLS SINS ABOUT BM ITS NOT THE DAMAGE THEY DEAL, ITS THE DAMAGE THEY DEAL WHILE IM STUNED, THEN IVE STILL 16 SEGS OF THE INCREASED EVSSION, THEN I USE SHADOW TELEPORT (WICH STUNS HIM FOR 5 SECS, AND I JUST SAPRK-KILL. if he donent use domain hes 99.99% dead within that time, if he does i just use my headhunt which deals a huge amount of damege and stuns for a woopy 6 segs more, hes domain is in CD, so now hes 100% dead (even if hes charmed)b:surrender

i dont talk about a magic class cause thy auctomatly die we we staks them

(and yeah im a natural staker cause thats why sins has stealt,''to overrshadow their natural weakness on HP, and armor'')

Okeano - Harshlands · February 2011

Nepttys - Lost City wrote: »

WHERE IS THAT STATED? b:shocked SO EVEN IF IM JUST DONE MY CULTY AS DEMON IM GONNA TAGE 0.83 DAMAGE MULTIPLIER?

AND IVE TO CONFESS SOMETHING. AS A DEMON SIN I WOULD ABSOLUTELY LOVE THAT 25% DAMAGE TAKING REDUCION CAUSE ITS AWESOME U KNOW?.

NOW, IF URE FACING A NON MAGIC CLASS AS A DEMON SIN URE CLOSE TO THE NONDEATH JUST CAUSE THE EVACCION ADD ON, LIKE... IM FACING A BM... IM STALKING HIM, HE DOSNT KNOW HE'S NOT ALONE, I USE MY BP (WICH ADDS ME 50% EVASSION FOR 50 SEGS) I USE MY TIDAL PROTECT CAUSE THE THING THAT KILLS SINS ABOUT BM ITS NOT THE DAMAGE THEY DEAL, ITS THE DAMAGE THEY DEAL WHILE IM STUNED, THEN IVE STILL 16 SEGS OF THE INCREASED EVSSION, THEN I USE SHADOW TELEPORT (WICH STUNS HIM FOR 5 SECS, AND I JUST SAPRK-KILL. if he donent use domain hes 99.99% dead within that time, if he does i just use my headhunt which deals a huge amount of damege and stuns for a woopy 6 segs more, hes domain is in CD, so now hes 100% dead (even if hes charmed)b:surrender

i dont talk about a magic class cause thy auctomatly die we we staks them

(and yeah im a natural staker cause thats why sins has stealt,''to overrshadow their natural weakness on HP, and armor'')

Lol this post is dumb on so many levels I won't even bother to point them out. Unfortunately, this is the mindset of 90% of the Sins who knows nothing but stun + auto, and then force stealth if the target doesn't die. Fail more b:bye.

Woneo - Harshlands · February 2011

I did not read that wall of capitals, but thats irrelevant.
it all comes down to play style, I prefer my sage assassin and okeano obviously believes that demon is better for his play style

. The only reason why I would go demon is for the PvE heroism.

Olbaze - Sanctuary · February 2011

Nepttys - Lost City wrote: »

WHERE IS THAT STATED? b:shocked SO EVEN IF IM JUST DONE MY CULTY AS DEMON IM GONNA TAGE 0.83 DAMAGE MULTIPLIER?

It's not what you think. It's not a reduction to the damage you deal, but the damage you take.

Focused Mind has a duration of 60 seconds and a cooldown of 90 seconds, so it can be active at most 2/3 of the time. The effect means that you take 75% of all damage during Focused Mind. So, on average, it will look like this:

1/3 of the time: 100%
2/3 of the time: 75%
Average: 1/3 + 2/3*3/4 = 1/3 + 1/2 = 5/6 = ~0.83

On Sage, the numbers are:
1/3 of the time: 100%
2/3 of the time: 2/3 (=~67%)
Average: 1/3 + 2/3*2/3 = 1/3 + 4/9 = 21/27 = 7/9 = ~0.77

Now, if you consider the 25% reduction on Sage Spark, the total reduction of a Sage is actually:
(7/9)*(3/4) = 7/12 = ~0.583

So, a Sage takes 7/12 of all damage whereas a Demon takes 5/6 of all damage. So, a Sage takes (7/12)/(5/6) = (7/12)*(6/5) = 7/10 = 0.7 = 70% of the damage a Demon would take.

So, on average, a Sage takes 70% of all the damage a Demon has to take. And that's really cool.

skyraiserdm · February 2011

found a funny world chat about clerics and aps...

This happens cause of the APS Hype

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2011

It obviously means action per second. They wanted a Korean cleric for intense healing.

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · February 2011

skyraiserdm wrote: »

found a funny world chat about clerics and aps...

This happens cause of the APS Hype

roflb:chuckle

Mekkhala - Lost City · February 2011

b:laugh I'm so looking foward to seeing Lingzi's QQ posts after ppl get a sin detection buff.

Lingzi - Lost City · February 2011

Mekkhala - Lost City wrote: »

b:laugh I'm so looking foward to seeing Lingzi's QQ posts after ppl get a sin detection buff.

lol me QQ? ima play a seeker n get sin detection buff too yay b:laugh

VyperionV - Lost City · February 2011

I see everyone has different opinions about aps here.. I think i should post mine as well.
I come from a private server where ppl can reach 5 aps with spear and sword. I don;t remember magic classes complaining that much about this fact and those were weps that deal huge dmg. Here only fist and dagger can reach such speed. I consider it fair since most people have no refinement on items and also no stones in their sockets. If they had a little bit more defense then 5 aps wouldn't hurt so much.
If we compare the advantages and disadvantages of aps we will realise that the disadvantages can be compensated but people find it easier to complain about it and wait for the GM to solve their problem than to do anything regarding this matter.
As some1 said before, aps make all pve easier and also brings out cash for pwi. Ever since r8 came out and people could get 5 aps on sins, how many sins donated for good equips? I know quite a few ppl who were in npc gear and suddenly they got +10 items r8 and nirvana over night. How will removing aps affect this game's reputation? People will say "i donated to have an advantage in this game but that advantage was taken away from me. What's the point in donating anymore?"
I didn't see anybody complaining about instant chant. Mages can get instant chant here an OMG that hurts a lot. They can cast as many skills they can press in 10 sec. Also each class has some advantages:
-EA can run and hit with 2 types of dmg (phys and magic). Let's not forget that EA can get +128 atk level in r9
-Wiz can run and hit same as EA. Besides Wiz can silence. Defensive shield is quite a good protection against 5 aps.
-EP has a barier to shield itself from phys dmg
-Barb has tons of HP an skills that prevent him from kissing the floor.
-BM can swich it's def state preatty fast and also can reach 5 aps...so...there is no problem here
-Veno has awsome debuffs and also a pet to help in killing
-Psychic has interesting defense as well (white voodoo). Besides that from what i read it's soulforce depends on refinement lvl. What happens when psychic has full +12? I always wondered how will that affect the game.
-Sin can easy avoid 5 aps as well using differite tactics.

Besides genies are quite useful vs all types of atks even thought they kinda ruin the fun.

So as a conclusion....5 aps can be avoited by all classes. All ppl require is a bit more defense coming from items. Some people can afford donating milions and some can;t afford. The game was already turned upside down when r8 became available for 75$. It can't be undone without pwi's reputation to suffer.

NatureLover - Harshlands · February 2011

VyperionV - Lost City wrote: »

I see everyone has different opinions about aps here.. I think i should post mine as well.
I come from a private server where ppl can reach 5 aps with spear and sword. I don;t remember magic classes complaining that much about this fact and those were weps that deal huge dmg. Here only fist and dagger can reach such speed. I consider it fair since most people have no refinement on items and also no stones in their sockets. If they had a little bit more defense then 5 aps wouldn't hurt so much.
If we compare the advantages and disadvantages of aps we will realise that the disadvantages can be compensated but people find it easier to complain about it and wait for the GM to solve their problem than to do anything regarding this matter.
As some1 said before, aps make all pve easier and also brings out cash for pwi. Ever since r8 came out and people could get 5 aps on sins, how many sins donated for good equips? I know quite a few ppl who were in npc gear and suddenly they got +10 items r8 and nirvana over night. How will removing aps affect this game's reputation? People will say "i donated to have an advantage in this game but that advantage was taken away from me. What's the point in donating anymore?"I didn't see anybody complaining about instant chant. Mages can get instant chant here an OMG that hurts a lot. They can cast as many skills they can press in 10 sec. Also each class has some advantages:
-EA can run and hit with 2 types of dmg (phys and magic). Let's not forget that EA can get +128 atk level in r9
-Wiz can run and hit same as EA. Besides Wiz can silence. Defensive shield is quite a good protection against 5 aps.
-EP has a barier to shield itself from phys dmg
-Barb has tons of HP an skills that prevent him from kissing the floor.
-BM can swich it's def state preatty fast and also can reach 5 aps...so...there is no problem here
-Veno has awsome debuffs and also a pet to help in killing
-Psychic has interesting defense as well (white voodoo). Besides that from what i read it's soulforce depends on refinement lvl. What happens when psychic has full +12? I always wondered how will that affect the game.
-Sin can easy avoid 5 aps as well using differite tactics.

Besides genies are quite useful vs all types of atks even thought they kinda ruin the fun.

So as a conclusion....5 aps can be avoited by all classes. All ppl require is a bit more defense coming from items. Some people can afford donating milions and some can;t afford. The game was already turned upside down when r8 became available for 75$. It can't be undone without pwi's reputation to suffer.

Im pretty sure you havent played other classes except for sins.

5aps makes pve much easier for the aps classes only. It makes other classes pve way harder.

If a sin and a wiz donated the same amount of $$ to PWE, why must sin be the one with advantage. And btw keep dreaming about the possiblity of insta-casting mage

The fact that half the population rolled an aps alt or convert their build to aps already shows the OP-ness of aps.

I got both a sin and wiz so I know how easy it is to play a sin (both pve and pvp) as compared to a wiz.

VyperionV - Lost City · February 2011

You are preatty sure but you have no idea actually

I started sin 5 months ago here after I didn't play it in 2.5 years. I played Archer in this time on all possible private servers of pw(good training for pvp). I faced BM with 5 aps on spear that seals and paralyses in the same time (octoarray effect). My archer was 3 hits for those ppl and they had insane dodge so it was hard to down them. But you see, even though BMs were OP there nobody complained against aps because there was always a way to overcome it. That speed comes with the problem of chasing target and lack of range.
I saw jewlery with -6 chant in wc (-6 x 2 and it is possible even x3). One can buy that jewlery and make it's mage have instant chant. It's hard but still possible.
It is normal for mele atkers to have more chances with the mobs because they don't hit from distance. They hit and also take hits. The fact that sin has squishy defense must be compensated somehow, don't you think? Besides at high level people go in squad mode. I belive you enjoy when in your squad is a 5 aps sin or bm. It's more money in a short time.
At first i wanted to create archer here since i have a lot of experience with it in pw but i thought of giving a shot with sin. I donated for r8 and other stuff. If those things are taken away from me don't you think i'd consider my money were wasted? I didn't get a chance to have fun for what i payed. It is not only my case.
This game has lots of sins and bm. If Aps is removed i bet that 90% of them will quit. That would decrease pwi population drastically. I saw what happend on other servers when GM took away the advantages that came through donation. Server is in ruins now even though it was in top private.

Zoe - Heavens Tear · February 2011

If it would make 90% of them quit than thats fine with me. Get rid of the people that ruined the game for anyone that is not them. It would bring more balance back to the pve of the game and that is very much needed.

I've been in plenty of parties with a 5 aps character or 3, sure it goes really fast but its boring as all heck. It's too easy, I do not like too easy. I'll take a normal party without aps any day over one that has aps.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · February 2011

VyperionV - Lost City wrote: »

You are preatty sure but you have no idea actually
I started sin 5 months ago here after I didn't play it in 2.5 years. I played Archer in this time on all possible private servers of pw(good training for pvp). I faced BM with 5 aps on spear that seals and paralyses in the same time (octoarray effect). My archer was 3 hits for those ppl and they had insane dodge so it was hard to down them. But you see, even though BMs were OP there nobody complained against aps because there was always a way to overcome it. That speed comes with the problem of chasing target and lack of range.
I saw jewlery with -6 chant in wc (-6 x 2 and it is possible even x3). One can buy that jewlery and make it's mage have instant chant. It's hard but still possible.
It is normal for mele atkers to have more chances with the mobs because they don't hit from distance. They hit and also take hits. The fact that sin has squishy defense must be compensated somehow, don't you think? Besides at high level people go in squad mode. I belive you enjoy when in your squad is a 5 aps sin or bm. It's more money in a short time.
At first i wanted to create archer here since i have a lot of experience with it in pw but i thought of giving a shot with sin. I donated for r8 and other stuff. If those things are taken away from me don't you think i'd consider my money were wasted? I didn't get a chance to have fun for what i payed. It is not only my case.
This game has lots of sins and bm. If Aps is removed i bet that 90% of them will quit. That would decrease pwi population drastically. I saw what happend on other servers when GM took away the advantages that came through donation. Server is in ruins now even though it was in top private.

private server is one thing, PWI is another.
If you can't make the diff out of it, you have a problem.
On privates with 2-3 days on non stop crafting you can get insta cast mage or 5 aps BM. Archer is the suckiest in Private S just because his natural def suck.
In Private servers no one complains about imbalance because it's what it is: PRIVATE server. You can have a max geared and refined char in under a week. Don't like it? change. Takes many months and a lot of effort to do that in PWI. I know, I played on Vendetta, Fake, Sublime and tried a few other I didn't really like. And you learn PVP on privat servers? ROFLMAO... Air pvp is not existant , because you do half dmg. Ground PvP is all about who forgets to equip charm(or hiero). PPL hit 250k+ crits on eachother, how can you learn PvP with stuff like that? At best you learn how to avoing being killed. Well, actually I guess that nightmare of yours was why you rolled a sin in the first place.
So take your private server and shove it where sun doens't shine, to compare those things with PWI is just plain out stupid

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2011

How does 5aps make other classes' PVE way harder? Does our DD reach into your instance and heal your bosses?

Ruxal - Harshlands · February 2011

From a PvE perspective (wrt soloing for profit) -chan (insta cast) can NEVER equate to the advantage that -ints gives. Refrain from your Private Server argument because this is not the private servers we are playing on. The majority of the players cannot and perhaps will never be able to run the builds that the people on the private server do.

One major and I mean major drawback of running a -chan build is the huge mana drain that it puts on a mage. In my case I have -47% chan while on demon quaff and -52% on demon spark and in the 15 seconds that I am spamming skills (6-9 depending on which skill chain I use) I can blow through a significant chunk of my 15k mp. On the otherhand, an aps character has no mana issues to deal with.

To be fair the repair bill on an aps class will be higher but a bm or sin does not have to worry about mana at all.

Secondly is the issue of hp regeneration. Bloodpaint benefits sins and bms the same. Tell me what hp regeration skill a wizard has other than spamming meats and buying charms (which is an additional cost that lowers your profit margin)?

Thirdly the average real build on the live (legal) servers for mages is incapable of permasparking.

Fourth the ease of creating a -intv class is greater than for creating a -chan class. I have never in all my time playing this game seen a single piece of -6 chan x2 on Harshlands. Even if it exist in game I have not seen it and unlike the many -intv pieces available, -chan pieces of that magnitude are RARE!!!

The point is and its has nothing to do with laziness or looking for excuses: As the game currently stands a wizard CANNOT farm instances for coin as fast or as often if at all in the manner that a aps class can.

The game IS inbalanced. I do not blame the players for taking advantage of the situation. I blame the developers for lacking the boldness to take control of the game they made and change it to maintain balance.

Until then PWI (the legal version) is nothing more than about who can make the better sin/aps class.

Goes back to watching every sin on the server get into a FC before me.

Ursa - Dreamweaver · February 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

How does 5aps make other classes' PVE way harder? Does our DD reach into your instance and heal your bosses?

well, I guess the meaning was "5 aps is so OP it's hard for any1 else to make something significant in PvE"

@Ruxal
Dude, drop it, don't even try.
Private servers have no cost in running anything. 3 mil HP/MP charms at the cost of killing 1 mob at west gate. Come on, this kind of discussion is not worth the wear and tear on the keyboard.

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2011

A lot of people don't even have much time to farm these days, and Nirvana is boring.

Some sign onto the game for less than 1/2 an hour a day and churn out a lot of coin/event gold/other **** doing events.

Do you need APS for Tigers? No...an archer with a good bow can get 10k+ contribs with the mob phase alone.

Do you need APS for DT? Dig chests?

Do you need APS for JR?

Do you need APS for COA? Yes and No. APS is good to get enough orbs, but a picker is just as necessary.

The rest of the time these people cat shop and sell the **** they got from these events + other boutique **** that happens to be on sale. Seriously who has the time to run instances over and over and over?

Of course other people idle and *****, I mean at least put up a cat shop trading DQ or mirages or something then spam QQ in chat or forums jeez... It's all about doing the most with the time you're active in game.

NatureLover - Harshlands · February 2011

Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »

How does 5aps make other classes' PVE way harder? Does our DD reach into your instance and heal your bosses?

Other classes have a hard time getting into squads because aps classes (with same equipment value and level) are preferred.

A lot of people don't even have much time to farm these days, and Nirvana is boring.

while the 5aps classes are complaining nirvana is boring, the non-aps class dont even have the chance to enter nirvana

Some sign onto the game for less than 1/2 an hour a day and churn out a lot of coin/event gold/other **** doing events.

Do you need APS for Tigers? No...an archer with a good bow can get 10k+ contribs with the mob phase alone.

Then explain why Sins/bm gets highest contribution in every tiger event. Or compare with veno/wiz? The contribution point for the TOP veno is similar to the LOWEST contribution point for the sins. Sure you dont need APS for tigers, you just lose out in it.

Do you need APS for DT? Dig chests?

ok i see now. To all wizards, this is now our new job! We suck at DD (compared to APS), we're better off digging chest now.

Do you need APS for JR?

Do you need APS for COA? Yes and No. APS is good to get enough orbs, but a picker is just as necessary.

Yup, we suck at DD (compared to the APS) so we're now picking rubbish to make a living
xD See? We're being despised by the aps classes now

Instead of listing all the rare instances that were done like once a week, how about:

Do we need APS for FC?
Do we need APS for Nirvana?
Do we need APS for TT?
Do we need APS for Lunar?
Do we need APS for Warsong?

Strictly speaking we DONT need, but lets face it. When has world chat asking for squads for nirvana ever not say this "Need APS DD for nirvana", "need sins/bm for FC" "Looking for sins/bms for TT3-3"

Face it lol, I bet u made an aps alt or convert to an aps build for this reason as well. And since you've alrdy got your aps, you wish not the nerf for aps b:chuckle

Quilue - Sanctuary · February 2011

Instances that are done once a week? THATS EXACTLY THE POINT. 10s of millions of coins are gotten from doing these events in about 30min a day, while someone else makes the same amount from farming for HOURS.

You don't need APS for Warsong BH...People were tanking it with a Lunar Bow last year before they ever got the idea of 5.0. As for the full instance, I haven't done it. Warsong is obviously not on anyone's priority for money-making

You don't need APS for FC are you nuts? People were and are still doing the instance while in their lvl70s. Look at that wizard complaining about not getting into Frost that's terrible. People used to get to lvl 100 on cube alone, before it gave 1m exp per run.

I'm not even going to humor Nirvana, because it sucks. Cube is better money/time than Nirvana. You had no idea did you?

APS was the unfair money maker LAST SUMMER when people rolled APS toons and dominated contribution charts of multiple classes with their alts. Even then, it was a twice-a-day event, about 20min each. Nobody with a full time job and family farms day in and day out for what they need.

Now about TT

It's not that a squad doesn't want you because you lack DD, it's that a squad without DD would FAIL. Walk into 3-x TT, and tell me APS characters are the ones that are making it HARDER for you.

and about Nirvana, it sucks

if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???

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