if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???
Comments
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the funny thing is i used to play a veno, but while you lot all sat here crying over 5.0 i spent some time and created and archer and farmed all her gear. She has 5.0 with TT100 fists, and guess what... ive only spend $50 on her
now i can take advantage of 5.0 while you havent progressed anywhere and are still crying over it.
also agree on the sins killing PvP bit[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »the funny thing is i used to play a veno, but while you lot all sat here crying over 5.0 i spent some time and created and archer and farmed all her gear. She has 5.0 with TT100 fists, and guess what... ive only spend $50 on her
now i can take advantage of 5.0 while you havent progressed anywhere and are still crying over it.
also agree on the sins killing PvP bit
Excellent, good for you, congrats
But why archer? You could have gotten so much more damage output with a 5.0 BM than with an archer.0 -
WillowGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »Excellent, good for you, congrats
But why archer? You could have gotten so much more damage output with a 5.0 BM than with an archer.
But why a blademaster? You could have gotten so much more damage output with a 5.0 sin than a blademaster.0 -
Easier and cheaper to get 5aps on a Sin/Archer ... and Archers are more fun to play Imo ( get tired of chasing mobs after so long b:surrender )[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Don't get me wrong, I am against them nerfing APS.
But it will be hilarious to see all the people who cash shopped for 5.0 fail without it.
I guess its for the best seeing as its kind of taking over the game.
Its hard for my boyfriend who has a sin to find a Nirvana squad even though he has really good gear and decent APS.0 -
nakedizabela wrote: »Don't get me wrong, I am against them nerfing APS.
But it will be hilarious to see all the people who cash shopped for 5.0 fail without it.
I guess its for the best seeing as its kind of taking over the game.
Its hard for my boyfriend who has a sin to find a Nirvana squad even though he has really good gear and decent APS.
No friends? I personally don't see how these people can't get into squads? -_-
My gear is good, but merely average at best due to it being unsharded and half assed refined and i've never had any trouble, ever, finding a NV squad. Not once have I been denied and I just recently went from 2.5 to 2.86 sparked0 -
SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »No friends? I personally don't see how these people can't get into squads? -_-
My gear is good, but merely average at best due to it being unsharded and half assed refined and i've never had any trouble, ever, finding a NV squad. Not once have I been denied and I just recently went from 2.5 to 2.86 sparked
Not exactly saying he can't get into squads, but the fact that world chatting gets him 10 PMs asking "Aps?" and then no invite when its not high enough for their liking is pretty ridiculous b:surrender0 -
WillowGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »Okay, so basically I read the first post and the last page of posts because, really? This topic has tooooo many pages!
Nerf 5.0, take packs out, 5.0 isn't the problem, sins are.Other irrelevant stuff I deleted....
I fail to understand how it is 5.0 assassins that are the problem hereb:surrender. I mean when I think about it I thought it was just 5.0 in general that was the issue.0 -
Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »I fail to understand how it is 5.0 assassins that are the problem hereb:surrender. I mean when I think about it I thought it was just 5.0 in general that was the issue.
5 aps Blademasters in PVP can simply be avoided and/or killed before they touch you. Surprisingly, 5 aps isn't THAT powerful in PVP. Of course it hurts if you get hit by it, but squishies are trained to kite, so they can still put up fights against -int targets.
High -int sins out of stealth, however... That deals more damage than humanly possible for a squishy to react to. Hell, the GAME can't even react in time; I can't even count how many times I've died to a sin out of stealth, then after my death I've seen Soul of Silence tick on the sin a good 4-6 times.I
AGOREY0 -
WillowGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »Excellent, good for you, congrats
But why archer? You could have gotten so much more damage output with a 5.0 BM than with an archer.
i always wanted an archer, im not a huge fan of sins i just dont find them attractive as high as they DD.
it was a tie up between a BM and an Archer but im more of a long range fighter having played a veno so i love having a bow and being able to use fists on bosses, as Cona said chasing mobs is no fun xDConavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »... and Archers are more fun to play Imo ( get tired of chasing mobs after so long b:surrender )
Im not gonna go into how well she dd's compared to other classes because im not interested in a flame war, she dd's good enough for me.
EDIT: im also true to the original classes ;P we nail TB's behinds[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
PvP wise there is no real issue. On my lowly 92 wiz with a mix of rank gear and running a tt90 weapon I can totally compete versus anyone in my level range. I am not saying I win all the time or even most of the time but I certainly NEVER have lost all of the time. In fact in duels versus sins I'm about 50% and versus other classes I do even better. In open field PvP or PK I can drop a sin/bm far faster than they can drop me.
Once again many of you focus on and try to compare classes based on 1v1. On a PvP server with factions the idea is not so much 1v1 but is more focussed on team battles. Of course 1v1 you get smacked by a sin especially if you have no anti stun pots or anti stun genie skills and have a clear lack of the ability to watch and time your skills. Team wise though and in terms of mass PvP a wizard is to me still the most destructive force on the playing field. Cloud erruption genie and -chanelling pots and omg most things drop real fast.
Team PvP is where the action is and in such terms balance is not the issue but teamwork is.
Now where my qq lies is not with PvP since I believe PvP is pretty good (not perfectly balanced) from my point of view. My real issue lies in PvE. The problem is the 4/5 aps and the ability to permaspark makes the reliance on wizzies/venos/psys for CERTAIN instances unnescessary. Now in some cases this is exaggerated by the fact that some players are close minded. Them aside though I have seen for myself just how much faster instances can be completed by having 4/5 aps players in yuor squad.
Now on the one hand this is great because if you are in a squad with them you are USUALLY (because not all of them are good players) assured a fast instance run (TT/FC for me, never been to Nirvana). On the other hand your contribution as a DD is subpar in comparison to theirs.
This brings me to the solution. Its only one thing that needs to be done. Reduce the effect of -intv gears.
If any attempt is made to boost casters power or cast speed the PvP immediate switches in uor favor to a rediculous degree but reducing -intv changes nothing and this is why:
1) Sins still have stealth in PvP and massive chi gain skills so that nerfed -intv does not make them less effective in PvP.
2) Almost ALL aps bm forgot they have a AXE and POLE for a reason and with a decent pair of each you are every bit as capable in PvP without -int gear or with nerfed -intv. R8 weapons hit hard.
3) Jones blessing + genie skills and pots are superb PvP equalizers. Throw in HP charms and wtf is anyone doing complaining about PVP?
I respect Adroit and Mum wrt to their opinions on PvP versus heavily geared sins but based on my experienced stealth or no stealth, aps or no aps, full spark or no full spark an equally geared wiz can win with good timing. I have proven this for myself versus equally geared sins. Furthermore since I am on a PvP server, ANYTIME I am stepping out to PK I aint doing it solo.....0 -
i made sin 5 aps by fortune but i worked very very hard to get him to 5 aps+11..rank 8 sale was a bit of a shock for me seeing how easy i can get 1 hit or 2 hit..
is easy for ppl who play 1 hour a day to go qq scream nerf 5 aps...they didn't work to get that and while i got good cash from it already i would be sad to see 5 aps nerf
and pvp wise i seen 5 aps bm been take out easy by rank8 wizy or psi...while would never happen to my sin to die 1 vs 1 to a wizard... main problem is the stealth not aps...prolly nerf stealth a little will create some balance... i never really do demon spark in pk unless i fight 1 on 1 with a 20k+hp charmed barbar or bm and is no other way to bring them down...
...in the end nerf aps would give mage class satisfaction that sin, bm would make 30%less cash or so but in pk at west gate you will still be dead on floor0 -
Nyxya - Harshlands wrote: »i made sin 5 aps by fortune but i worked very very hard to get him to 5 aps+11..rank 8 sale was a bit of a shock for me seeing how easy i can get 1 hit or 2 hit..
is easy for ppl who play 1 hour a day to go qq scream nerf 5 aps...they didn't work to get that and while i got good cash from it already i would be sad to see 5 aps nerf
and pvp wise i seen 5 aps bm been take out easy by rank8 wizy or psi...while would never happen to my sin to die 1 vs 1 to a wizard... main problem is the stealth not aps...prolly nerf stealth a little will create some balance... i never really do demon spark in pk unless i fight 1 on 1 with a 20k+hp charmed barbar or bm and is no other way to bring them down...
...in the end nerf aps would give mage class satisfaction that sin, bm would make 30%less cash or so but in pk at west gate you will still be dead on floor
In pk at west you would not be dead on the floor so stop over exaggerating. You still have stealth and you still have massive chi gain skills. Furthermore at even 3 aps you are still able to put down many peolpe in the time you seal/stunlock them provided they do not time their anti skills right.
As for a bm its the same because most mages run pure arcane builds and a well prepped axe/pole with good skills still puts down mages fast. Furthermore once in the air you have True emptiness which is awesome and anywhere you have balance which negates huge chunks of magic damage.
Reading post like yours indicates that aps is like a leg instead of a tool. In fact make that 2 legs. On my bm for example I was not even 3 aps sparked and could take down wizards simply by timing balance and stuns and knowing when and where to fight. Its really not as "1/2 shot as you all try to make it seem".
Funny enough though you never seem to tire of killing mages since in my entire 92 levels the only class to consistently pk me was assassins. So excuse me if you are my favorite targets while I pk. Funny because on my bm few and I repeat few sins ever bothered to attack me and few that did quickly learnt that axes are every bit as deadly as 5 aps if used right.
As for the bit about being satified that you make 30% less cash consider that as a wizard there is NO instnace where I can solo farm and make huge profits and this has been so since I first started playing. So excusssssssseeeeeeeeeee me if I don't want a little bit of the PvE pie as well.
I mean its a bit unfair that after 92 levels and several million in skills and gear that a lvl 8x sin with some -intv gear can auto attack spark auto attack and make my dd pretty much irrelevant. Of course you cannot AOE dd as well as I can and certain I am looking forward to being able to do rebirth runs BUT wait there are seekers looming nearby but that is another topic for another time.0 -
Nyxya - Harshlands wrote: »i made sin 5 aps by fortune but i worked very very hard to get him to 5 aps+11..rank 8 sale was a bit of a shock for me seeing how easy i can get 1 hit or 2 hit..
is easy for ppl who play 1 hour a day to go qq scream nerf 5 aps...they didn't work to get that and while i got good cash from it already i would be sad to see 5 aps nerf
I kinda agree with this lol. Its always people with bad chars, that kinda casually plays, that keeps complaining about aps. Its like "i hope they nerf asp so i dont have to cash shop or spend months farming coins to get Nirvana pants/Claws for my horrible sword BM".
I do understand how you as a magic class might feel frustrated about getting excluded from Nirvana and Frost. They should add a +50 magic blessing for instances or add more bosses with high phy def to even it out a bit. But tbh you make more money grinding DQs than running Nirvana these days b:surrender.
Most players dedicated to this game already made a 5.0 char for pve by now. I cant take a persons complains serious, if they're not even willing to invest enough time to create a 4/5 aps for farming.
I do agree that sins are broken in 1v1 pvp, but that's more related to stealth than attack speed. A lot of sins (specially sages) aren't even interval builds, they still shiet on anyone when they pop up.0 -
I do not care to and will not create a 5 aps character to farm. I will not do it because I do not believe I should have to create a character I do not want to play with but still end up playing 100 levels just so I can make money to play the other character I really enjoy playing.
PWI beginners guide:
1) To make money to play the character you really want to play, first make a bm/sin and make it to 4/5 aps.
2) Once you have done the above feel free to make any other class after.
How does the above sound? Stupid right? ..................................(self censored)0 -
Ruxal - Harshlands wrote: »How does the above sound? Stupid right? Well its exactly how all of you who try to tell people they can go make a 4/5 aps character sound too.
stop making excuses, if i can make a 5aps archer without spending any or very little rl coin then ANYONE can. You dont have to have a 5aps to be usefull, i for one still relish the use of Barb's/Veno's/Cleric's/BM's and even wizzies in Nirvana and wont say no to any of them regardless of their gear
But at the end of the day, if you are unwilling to change and addapt to the game to be succesfull at it then that is your fault, you are the failiure. So stop moaning about it on forums
I love my archer and my veno i still have both, but my archer is my favorite and main now[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
<~~ has a 4.0 sin and a lvl 100 pure tank barb.
I will say i only read till page 7 before i got bored.
I hope i speak for alot of people when i say... this thread has become pointless. You are QQing and getting stressed out over something that hasn't even happened yet. No-one knows what is going to be done or how it is going to happen. I would suggest a chill pill till something definate is known. Then you can atleast QQ about the right thing.
Plus alotta people have strayed from the OP which was.. does pwi have to get everythin china does. I believe so, they have the rights to use the game not to make significant changes to it (i believe).
Personally i hate pvp so all that stuff about it in pvp is a simple issue to fix. All damage is reduced when is against other players... so why not aps. You still have the high stuff for bosses and w/e in dungeons and reduced aps in pvp means every class has a chance.
For the nirvana... i would say a very high percentage of people who farm nirvana do so for money only. Without the high aps people who run it there would be a hell of a lot less of those raptures/uncannys around and would be twice as expensive to buy. Those cash players you guys are QQing about buy the stuff you farm. And yea i have had trouble getting nirvana on my barb (only managed to get 1 run so far), but once i have done a few runs and know the route you can be damn sure i am taking my friends in (99% of whome are not aps) and running with them, its more fun that way. Let the money makers run the fast runs and do w/e. And i can be fairly certain that when a none high aps person runs nirvy with a couple of high ones i think they would like the fact they can do 3 runs in the space of 1, especially if that person is a casual player and doesn't have full days to play.
No-one seems to QQ about herc venos since hercs can tank almost anythin too as well as letting the veno dd which is a huge advantage over most classes in pve who have to rely alot on squads. why is aps such a big issue when it has aloud more classes to tank which has actually made the game more accessable since there isn't a huge reliance on one tanking race. I agree barbs are reduced bc of it and yea its hard to get one for stuff like delta but you can get them and most of them will know their job alot better bc of it. But honestly if everyone who complained their isn't enough barbs around actually stopped QQing and made one the problem would be instantly fixed.
The funny thing is.. once you have worked with a high aps you don't really want to go back... everything is faster and easier. Which means you can do more in a small space of time, which is even more useful for people who only can play for a few hours at a time.
You will always get the people who run only with the best/fastest, atm its high aps who knows what it will be in the next expansion. Just give it a break and stop QQing till you actually know whats going to happen.
Sorry if that turned into a rant
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Case in point. Furthermore its sad that an archer class performs better as a dd using fist than using a bow. I have made no excuses. This is not about adapting. This is about enjoying the game and I enjoy wiz not 5 aps. Furthermore if you followed what I said you would understand I am not moaning but simply giving my opinion on a matter. Right now I enjoy my wiz and playing PWI using it. I have decent gear and I have money in my bank however I still am a lower class dd in instnaces of PvE because the developers lack the ........fortitude to take control of their own game.Summer_Blush - Heavens Tear wrote: »stop making excuses, if i can make a 5aps archer without spending any or very little rl coin then ANYONE can. You dont have to have a 5aps to be usefull, i for one still relish the use of Barb's/Veno's/Cleric's/BM's and even wizzies in Nirvana and wont say no to any of them regardless of their gear
But at the end of the day, if you are unwilling to change and addapt to the game to be succesfull at it then that is your fault, you are the failiure. So stop moaning about it on forums
I love my archer and my veno i still have both, but my archer is my favorite and main now0 -
WillowGirl - Dreamweaver wrote: »Excellent, good for you, congrats
But why archer? You could have gotten so much more damage output with a 5.0 BM than with an archer.SaiIorMoon - Lost City wrote: »But why a blademaster? You could have gotten so much more damage output with a 5.0 sin than a blademaster.
These are almost the worst things about these threads. If we wanted to roll sin or a BM we would have. I'm a 5.0 archer w/Deicides (working on TT100's)
I don't want a BM (as a main anyway), and I got bored to tears of my sin. People like to play with classes differently. Personally, I quite enjoy archer. Why roll a sin or BM when I can have 5.0 AND the range dmg with bow that I enjoy on one char?0 -
Silchas_ruin - Dreamweaver wrote: »These are almost the worst things about these threads. If we wanted to roll sin or a BM we would have. I'm a 5.0 archer w/Deicides (working on TT100's)
I don't want a BM (as a main anyway), and I got bored to tears of my sin. People like to play with classes differently. Personally, I quite enjoy archer. Why roll a sin or BM when I can have 5.0 AND the range dmg with bow that I enjoy on one char?
It depends on how you view classes. Some view them as different aspects of the game to have fun and experiment with, while others like me view them as tools to acquire the things our true mains need. My sin, for example, isn't for me to "have fun and mess around" on. I use that solely to go out farm and make money. Those statements are viewing it more like me (but this is better.....to get xzy with).BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Hope people realise even if they did nerf the aps as low as say 3.33 most classes still wouldn't be wanted in farming instances.
If people don't want to make a farming character thats cool but don't expect to be invited to squads even after a nerf .. Times have changed and the game has moved on.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »Hope people realise even if they did nerf the aps as low as say 3.33 most classes still wouldn't be wanted in farming instances.
If people don't want to make a farming character thats cool but don't expect to be invited to squads even after a nerf .. Times have changed and the game has moved on.
3.33 sins would still deal about 2x-3x more damage then rank 9 wizard. I'm sorry but nerfing still wont change the squad make ups and peoples perception of fast squads, so I agree with you.BladedZero - Sanctuary
"Also I don't think actually playing through the game helps your skill either."
-And we wonder why this game has gone to hell b:cute0 -
Oneji - Heavens Tear wrote: »I fail to understand how it is 5.0 assassins that are the problem hereb:surrender. I mean when I think about it I thought it was just 5.0 in general that was the issue.
pfffft read the whole post... I was being sarcastic in semi-quoting another poster who said that 5.0 sins were the problem, not 5.0 itself.
The only problem I see with sins is stealth - it severely unbalances the game's PvP aspect.
My favorite thing to do when in PK mode is to sit quietly and wait and watch and snipe some unsuspecting PK'er when they aren't looking then laugh when they QQ about it - sins regularly unstealth RIGHT IN MY FACE in PK and stun me and can usually kill me unless I get lucky and they don't crit - so why is it wrong for an archer to snipe like this in PK? Sorry, the devs didn't give me a stealth ability, so I work with what I have, which is distance.
And yeah... I'll say it again...
This thread is tooooo long.0 -
Il simply point out that even before the rank sale, Nyxyo (Nyxya) was 80% of the consumer market in Ironguards.
/leaves thread again.0 -
Naivety - Harshlands wrote: »Il simply point out that even before the rank sale, Nyxyo (Nyxya) was 80% of the consumer market in Ironguards.
/leaves thread again.
yo nub, I guess they let you come back finally b:cute0 -
Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »3.33 sins would still deal about 2x-3x more damage then rank 9 wizard. I'm sorry but nerfing still wont change the squad make ups and peoples perception of fast squads, so I agree with you.
3.33 sins which is actually 5 aps sins sparked.
I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but just 3.33 aps without spark won't take aggro off a r8 wizard even. R9? roflmao, at least 50% damage lvl, are you joking? Your fked up understanding of aps and dmg and passing it on is what creates a lot of misinformed nubs in this game.
non rank9 3.33 sparked sin with same refines as wizard I don't think it will outdamage it. It's kinda' hard to make a comparison since it's hard to find two equally geared chars, but i guess the damage difference won't be big, not even close to a factor of 2 or 3.b:chuckle that's just plain stupid____________
I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.
George Carlin
~I listen to hardcore FIGHT songs when I visit the forum, just to get into the proper mood~
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I didnt read all as there's too much.
There's 2 kinds of people in PW, as simple as that :
- Those who work, have a life, kids, wife, whatever and want to achieve all in the smallest amount of time (put 500$ + in game to be aps, farm Nirvana in 10 or mins, oracle to 100 etc.) Those will quit if aps is nerfed as they will have invest too much in a Free game and feel robbed.
- Those who don't work, can't cash shop much except maybe charms and flyers, and want to take their time to do things and actually enjoy them and get less bored, less fast. Those will stay no matter what, as they are enjoying what the Free game has to offer and are glad that some did put cash in game to keep it running.
It will always be a war between those 2 clans. So stop the QQing already, whatever happens, one side will be happy and one side less. b:byeProud supporter of the new expansion. Sure it has it's share of bugs, like any games. But for a pure farmer/grinder, that's a whole lot of new mobs to go beat up b:chuckle0 -
Man, I love being in the 2nd clan, ya feel me?b:cuteSir_Puma - Raging Tide wrote: »I didnt read all as there's too much.
There's 2 kinds of people in PW, as simple as that :
- Those who work, have a life, kids, wife, whatever and want to achieve all in the smallest amount of time (put 500$ + in game to be aps, farm Nirvana in 10 or mins, oracle to 100 etc.) Those will quit if aps is nerfed as they will have invest too much in a Free game and feel robbed.
- Those who don't work, can't cash shop much except maybe charms and flyers, and want to take their time to do things and actually enjoy them and get less bored, less fast. Those will stay no matter what, as they are enjoying what the Free game has to offer and are glad that some did put cash in game to keep it running.
It will always be a war between those 2 clans. So stop the QQing already, whatever happens, one side will be happy and one side less. b:bye●Barb - The "natural" leader. Cool and collected, slow to anger, and typically jovial. Swift to act when friends' lives are in danger, and prepared to lay down his life if the situation calls for it.
End of lvling, starting of the unimaginableb:laughb:victoryb:coolb:cool0 -
Nerf APS and make it fun to play mage classes again?
Nerf APS and make it less fun to play something you spent a bajillion coins on, and possibly a great deal of real cash? I dunno...
As for if PW CN does something, PWI HAS to follow... Well, look at DQ changes. They changed DQ vendor prices, and PWI did the same, even though "It wasn't fair to PWI players", and so they invented DQ Rewards.
So to some extent, yes, they do. Probably PW CN tells PWI what they can and cannot change, and the extent of what they can change.
Part of me would be happy with an APS nerf. It's broken. But just bumping down the maximum obtainable APS isn't really a fix, it screws everyone who worked REALLY hard to get that APS, and gives nothing to anyone else.
Make mage classes more powerful, like, -channeling, maybe? We've been asking for it for a long time. Make it more effective, or effect skill cooldown time as well.
This isn't something where you can change a number and fix it... Just bumping 5.0 down to 4.0 or 2.5 won't fix it, because it's still broken, by the way the system is designed. You have to design around the flaw, or design it out, not slap a bandaid on it and be happy with it.101 Sage Sin*/Archer
100 Demon BM*/Barb
96 Demon Cleric/Sage Seeker
95 Demon Wiz/
94 Sage Veno
85 Psy/80 Mystic
And a handful of other alts, all 79 and under.
*Pre RB level0 -
Conavar - Heavens Tear wrote: »Hope people realise even if they did nerf the aps as low as say 3.33 most classes still wouldn't be wanted in farming instances.
If people don't want to make a farming character thats cool but don't expect to be invited to squads even after a nerf .. Times have changed and the game has moved on.
^ This. its time to just accept it like how things might change again with the 2 new classes[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
This discussion has been closed.
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