Nerf mage and psy damage, as well as soulforce

rawrgh you are so correct...psy is so overpowered for tw and pk...psy 1shot bms even with marrow magical, and sin dies easy because soulfource...STOP QQ ABOUT 5APS...MAGES can bring bm and he will hf for ya... just get great gear so you can do damage...qq..qq

Gawd QQ more, a high hit rate is all a wiz has in this game!!! If you cant kill a arcane wizard reroll or uninstall...geeesh

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why should a wizard use genie skill just to survive and BM doesn't have to use any genie skill to survive? Do you see unbalance? Wizard have to use genie skill while BM doesn't. According to you is it ok?

A smart BM will use a genie skill or apothecary potion if they see a rank8 or higher mage class coming, otherwise they will be dead before they can reach the caster, even at a sprint.

On topic:
I don't mind that it takes me 3-4x as long to solo FC (yes, I can solo FC, shut yo face!), or that it takes more effort or friends to find squads.
I'm not a huge fan of Nirvana or TT, they are fun to figure out, but after the umpteen-millionth-spark-faceroll-repeat (at which point the original investment in gear begins to pay off) I would be supremely bored.
Props to the people who like doing 4, or 8, or 12 nirvanas and 3-6 bhs a day, it's not my thing. So I rolled a psychic (after my old school cleric and barb became obsolete).

I'm cool with melee classes doing 5 times the damage I can on bosses in a few instances, and I am always glad when they bring me along.
I'm cool with being about DPH not DPS, spike aoe bursts instead of consistent single target damage. The squad of sins that takes down a boss in 1 minute drops to one single aoe from me, I consider it a fair trade.

(side note to the "merchant, you'll make more money than farming" bandwagon: if no one grinds or farms you will have very little to merchant, if everyone is a merchant, you will have no customers)

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Why should a wizard use genie skill just to survive and BM doesn't have to use any genie skill to survive? Do you see unbalance? Wizard have to use genie skill while BM doesn't. According to you is it ok?

Actually a BM do have to use genies to 1v1 PK...stupid stupid people. Sin is pretty much the only class that can PK people with genies without genies.

Xx_Zero_xX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

BM's can pk easily w/o genie o.O.only class id say we need genie is vs Sin,just for expel so idk what ur talking about LOL b:sweat

I forgot how bad the casters that PvP on Dreamweaver are... b:chuckle

Hey Rawrgh

http://pwcalc.com/422f310a551d7fb9

b:cool

and ignore the attack and def levels on the calc, there broken b:cool

This is why Rawrgh has so much problem in pk. b:laugh

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

More like it isn't necessary. If I glitch tiger form with claws I have 5.0 aps with 14.5k hp, and I can tank just about every instance in the game. Delta gives me a bit of trouble but as long as I pay attention I'm fine, and this is with a base VIT of 20 and an average refine of +4

Xx_Zero_xX - Dreamweaver wrote: »

theres some decent R9 casters in DW lol , not many of them pk though. b:sad b:sweat

I am not talking about gear.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

a well geared wizzie will not die to me in first stun unless the bm procs GS

Fixed it for you.

Don't know why your quoting me with this reply - i said if BM survives first wiz attack, its a pretty even fight.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

If GS procs AD otherwise leap out for roar/fortify OI . Bm spends another few seconds runnign after you then more time sealed. If bm OIed then you get another leap before that cools off if bm has it still badge>leap. Bm closes and you get to fortify out of next stun while nukeign away. Then leap away and seal again. Oh and your nukeign the poor bm the entire time

Oh my, I will have to find you on my sanctuary wizard. Reading this, you make this sound like wizards have better control skills than a BM.

And nukeign the poor bm the entire time? Get magic marrow. It might help.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

In your example the bm just burned all its geni energy while the wizz still has 100% to play with. As for apocs the wizz can just vac pot and 3 spark.

In MY example? I have to go re-read that I guess.

edit: ok, reread. You think that a wiz has all its energy after a sleep (2 min cooldown), ulti (2 sparks) and likely a damage amp (spark, frenzy, or at least extreme poison).

After all that, compared to the bm just using domain, that the WIZ has all its "energy" left?

And as pointed out by another bm above, most times with magic marrow, bms don't even need to use a genie to pk anyone but sins, which is generally true.

Do they use them? sure. But 90% of the time they don't have to if they are not outgeared or otherwise a fool.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Never ever try to pretend range isnt the single biggest advantage in pvp in this game aside from stealth.

Um, no. Stun/control skills are. Sins are sneaky because of stealth. They are op in terms of pvp because of stuns. I've seen plenty of sins pk without stealth and whoop a bms tail.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Its why a single CS wizz/psy can change the entire way a TW is played.

CS psy? yes. Wiz? To a much, much lesser degree that it shouldn't even be compared.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

For somone who playes a class that CONSTANTLY cries about sins getting the first hit you should realize how huge of an edge that is. Specificly how huge of an edge that is in a game where thanks to rank 8 and jones bless the first hit is more often than not a damn charm tick.

Again, not sure why you are quoting me. I don't believe I ever said it wasn't.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Not a QQ just how that little scenario actually plays out when the wizzies not an absolute tard who cant time a damn antistun or kite.

Wizards don't have anti-stuns, ijs. Or do you mean apoth with long cool down, in which case it really can't be "timed" throughout a fight, only used once.

Or do you mean genie skills, which if used limit the wizards ability to nuke, and may, depending on what else the genie is used for, have a longer cycle time than the bms stuns - again, making them use once therefore note really a "timing" issue throughout the fight.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

Bm's take a ton of skill to actually close on a good ranged class because they need to predict antistuns and time for minor openings in cooldowns, whereas kiteing is purely reactive based on stun pattern. Or in other words with equal gear and skill the bm will lose most of the time because it takes more skill to play a bm competently than it does to play a ranged class.

Maybe your just not cut out for it? Roll a wiz and see how you do with that "easy" class.

There is a reason there are usually alot more bms in pk areas than wizards, across ALL servers.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

A idealy skilled bm vs an idealy skilled wizz is about even. Anything less is a faceroll for the caster.

Um, I think that is what I originally said, assuming the bm can survive the first attack, its about an even fight.

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm saying you suck at your class or have **** gear...most likely both... just in case you hadent caught that by now.

Interesting. I have 2500 kills and you have 300. 300 on a server that is what? more than twice as old as mine?

Chrisn I am quit sure wouldn't share your assessment. And neither would 90% of the bms that actually pk on sanctuary. Sounds to me like the wizards there have you grossly out geared, and out skilled.

Shame there isn't a cross server pk area. Would shut up 50% of the hot air on these forums, ijs.

Courtneyabwy - Lost City wrote: »

Gawd QQ more, a high hit rate is all a wiz has in this game!!! If you cant kill a arcane wizard reroll or uninstall...geeesh

This, except for maybe other arcanes. They can, but they have it pretty difficult endgame. Unless you +12 a psychic, etc., wizards are probably the strongest arcane class for pvp (dunno about mystics, but I would love that knock back), but bms and sins are at the top of the pile, there's no denying it.

Dammit, BLOOD, dammit to Hell.

Multiquote. MULTIQUOTE.

KillinEye - Sanctuary wrote: »

Okay, so:
Melee classes are seen OP, Magic classes are seen OP.
But they can't be OP on both fields, because then nobody would be OP.
So why don't be just let melee classes be OP with their 5aps in PvE,
and keep magic classes OP in the PvP aspect of the game?
Seems fine to me.

Well, because that would be false. Just look at west gate on any server. See psychics, clerics, venos and wizards hanging around? No.

You see sins (well, you don't see them), bms, barbs, and archers.

See in world chat "nirvana squad looking for casters?" no, they want the same, preferably high aps.

So only an idiot like josh would think otherwise for pk or pve.

Now, TW? What makes a wizard and psychic more competitive, and even great, is AOE. Hard hitting AOE. Period.

So if you want to revise that statement to say "half the magic classes are op in the 1 hour (maybe) per week that is TW, and the rest of the game is all owned by the melee classes" - I would agree with you.

The problem is, these other morons are so bad at what they do vs wizards and psychics, they don't even see the simple truth of it.

And again, you don't have to take my word for it: just look at who does what in game. Not hard to figure out for yourselves.

Now, if we are talking rank 9 wizards - maybe, i don't know. We can only tell once everyone has rank 9, because rank 9 wizard vs anyone not rank 9 we are no longer talking about equal gear. And in this game, better gear makes up for alot, lack of skill and even structural deficiencies among the difference classes.

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I believe what most squishies have a problem with is that Assassin is OP in both, save for mass PVP (like you'd find in TW).

The problem is that PW-CN are stuck between a rock and a hard place with Assassin: get rid of stealth, and the class is now a one-shot for most anyone in PVP (LA is the worst possible armor choice, and Sins don't get the benefit of range like Archers); nerf their stunlock, and you won't really notice much difference since well-geared Sins can drop 30k HP Cata Barbs in a few seconds; nerfing their APS down to 4.0 or 3.33 only really affects their ability to kill well-geared Cata Barbs and some BMs; doing all-of-the-above would make Sin one of the weakest classes in the game.

Also, bear in mind that with none of those nerfs and the Sin as over-powered as it is now, against a well-geared Psy the Assassin will die horribly over and over again. The problem with using Psy as a counterbalance is that they need a lot of soulforce, whereas a Sin just needs 2.5 APS+ and a working knowledge of their class to destroy 90% of the people they come across. I would know. I suck at PVP, and I still faceroll people to death (albeit on a lolPVE server, even if Core Connect sucks at updating my actual PVP kills from TWs alone).

true
but if they nerf the hability to do skills in stealth + they lost self-buffs in stealth it would be fair (and reduce CD)

Firefeng - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Losing self-buffs by using stealth would break the class more than any other item I mentioned--because LA sucks, a Sin's only defense is their stealth + stunlock + their buffs. Their buffs are the only thing that allow them to still function in TWs and mass PVP--Maze Steps is only 10 seconds and isn't worth the spark used to cast it in mass PVP, since the Sin is going to be dead in a few seconds after coming out of stealth anyway. Far better to use Tidal Protection and invincibility/damage-cutting apo/genie skills instead. Or Vacuity powders + Focused Mind. Either require the Sin to buff in stealth, as per the duration + cooldown. If PW buffed Sins duration on their self-buffs, though, this fix would help nerf Sins helpfully. Just get rid of the part where it clears self-buffs.

Ideally, Sin will be balanced by nerfing their ability to stunlock. I'm not naive enough to believe most Sins can APS any class ever to death the second they hit 100. Most of them require stunlock from stealth to get their kills. Nerf Sin's ability to perma-stealth (but leave the force-stealth skill) and you cut down on the faceroll aspect of their ability to PVP. Actually, even if you nerfed force stealth to last only 10-15 seconds, that would (fairly) leave enough Sins time to escape dangerous situations without abusing stealth for the sake of cooldown timers.

the hability to 3 sparks outside stealth and to return in stealth mode to go near the target is why I said that :P That's why I said to reduce the CD too


force stealth IF you need 1 spark to cast it.