if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???

Eoria - Harshlands · December 2010

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Caster classes besides archers might actually be asked to go on runs now.

Fact: Wizzies/psys will still not get into anything except GV/TM/fb99 Hell phys immune boss unless they're either enterprising or ****ing scary. Why? One word: archers.

Born_Free - Harshlands · December 2010

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Fact: Wizzies/psys will still not get into anything except GV/TM/fb99 Hell phys immune boss unless they're either enterprising or ****ing scary. Why? One word: archers.

Touche. Got me there.

I'd honestly rather compete with the archer than the APS junkies, that's for sure.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Fact: Wizzies/psys will still not get into anything except GV/TM/fb99 Hell phys immune boss unless they're either enterprising or ****ing scary. Why? One word: archers.

Wife and I actually did a random Nirvana earlier with a wizard who kept yanking aggro. Of course, I don't think it means much since upon the "punished!" seals the boss does a full aggro reset, wizards seem to have a higher save against seals (it was insane in 4 runs how many seals this guy evaded), and since he was the first hit a lot, it meant he had aggro often right after seals. On the other hand, the run went fast. Wizards and psychics (especially wizards) still do get squadded fairly often for Nirvana, and I still see the funny world chats from a person forming squad that they especially don't care for APS.

Eoria - Harshlands · December 2010

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wife and I actually did a random Nirvana earlier with a wizard who kept yanking aggro. Of course, I don't think it means much since upon the "punished!" seals the boss does a full aggro reset, wizards seem to have a higher save against seals (it was insane in 4 runs how many seals this guy evaded), and since he was the first hit a lot, it meant he had aggro often right after seals. On the other hand, the run went fast. Wizards and psychics (especially wizards) still do get squadded fairly often for Nirvana, and I still see the funny world chats from a person forming squad that they especially don't care for APS.

We have a wiz like that on HL. Thing is, he strikes me as very charismatic and has much better gear/refines than most other wizzies/psys and like half the APS DDs you can get so it doesn't really surprise me when he steals aggro.

But yes. You do see wizzies from time to time in Nirvana. Psys...I have only personally seen one psy in Nirvana and she's my guild leader's wife.

_Spot_ - Lost City · December 2010

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Coming from an Assassin who probably has APS.

The % of players that are APS junkies is MUCH MUCH MUCH higher than 1%.

Try somewhere between 30-40%.

Stay in the TB starter area. Count how many Assassins pop up. Now count the Psychics.

Go to Etherblade. Count how many Blademasters pop up. Now count the Wizards.

Scout Archosaur. Count the Blademasters. Now count the Asassins. Now count Barbs.

I won't even go into how many Clawbarians and Clawchers there are. I promise you, the amount is very, very high.

On the positive, Barbarians and Venomancers will retain their rightful place as the two strongest classes in the game. Assassins will be hated much less now. Archers might actually get a squad and be able to use their bows for a change. Caster classes besides archers might actually be asked to go on runs now.
And who knows, maybe Nirvana and TT runs will take the 30+ minutes that they were SUPPOSED TO.

I so agree with Miugre on this one. Boo hoo if you spent money on a broken system. Here's my cup of care--- Oh wait.....it's empty. :<

.....and lol to Machety who thinks it's possible to kill a stealth'd charmed demon 5APS Assassin. Do send me a video of it sometime, I'm dying to see it. The only person I can possibly think who would take down someone of that caliber.....are all in Zulu. (Nurfed, UrDian, Applequest, Rome, Kurses, and Curses.)

If they nurf APS, expect massive ragequitting and QQing from every APS class on the planet.....and celebration from everybody else.

Even if they nerf to 3,00 or 3,33 aps.. lol we still get agro, ppl will still invite aps class like usual....

Do you ever played an aps char?????

Barb, veno strongest class???? lol......

Just for you knowledge im a 3.33 aps sin and well hun i **** bms and barb in less then 5 sec......(not rank 9 ones thoughb:surrender)

Archers using bow??

GV????Bhs???? oh right i forgot you still lvl 70ish (

when i read your 10 dollars words i find that is very hard to chosse wich one is the worst on the forums if its you, Yulk or DEMON_ARCHER-

_Spot_ - Lost City · December 2010

....and lol to Machety who thinks it's possible to kill a stealth'd charmed demon 5APS Assassin. Do send me a video of it sometime, I'm dying to see it. The only person I can possibly think who would take down someone of that caliber.....are all in Zulu. (Nurfed, UrDian, Applequest, Rome, Kurses, and Curses.)

if i get Nirvana daggers ill be 5,00aps so after no one can kill me Yaaaayyyyyyyy

Please sis shut the *** upb:bye

Cimon - Harshlands · December 2010

the simple truth of it is if they nerf it no one important will quit they got there cash already so its a no brainer if i was pwi i would just let em cry about it like you guys on here tend to do and continue counting my money i mean heck theres folks still posting here with the game is dead in there sig bar if its so dead why ya still here why can i find a fight whenever i want how come squads are a dime a dozen and how come duke still shouts like hes been on a all night crack bender i say nerf it it would balance things out i can hold aggro against any 3.33 aps sparked class with my axe a barb can spam his aggro skills and still hold aggro against 3.33 sparked aps but then again if you guys complained that it was to easy for a 5aps person to play im sure when they fix it youll complain about how it all sucks now cus theres no longer 5 sins and posibly a cleric in a nirvana farming and then charging ludacris prices for the mats they farm so seriously just forget it the net time this forum has a thought just let it go i will be in harshlands somewhere enjoying my axe handleing non fist bm self doin my thing so QQ

ThanosQRt - Dreamweaver · December 2010

Cimon - Harshlands wrote: »

the simple truth of it is if they nerf it no one important will quit they got there cash already so its a no brainer if i was pwi i would just let em cry about it like you guys on here tend to do and continue counting my money i mean heck theres folks still posting here with the game is dead in there sig bar if its so dead why ya still here why can i find a fight whenever i want how come squads are a dime a dozen and how come duke still shouts like hes been on a all night crack bender i say nerf it it would balance things out i can hold aggro against any 3.33 aps sparked class with my axe a barb can spam his aggro skills and still hold aggro against 3.33 sparked aps but then again if you guys complained that it was to easy for a 5aps person to play im sure when they fix it youll complain about how it all sucks now cus theres no longer 5 sins and posibly a cleric in a nirvana farming and then charging ludacris prices for the mats they farm so seriously just forget it the net time this forum has a thought just let it go i will be in harshlands somewhere enjoying my axe handleing non fist bm self doin my thing so QQ

tbh, after the r8 sale (people have spend 700gold for it in the past) it wouldnt suprise me if the nerfed 5aps.

or release "Newbie -int pack"

contains: scroll of tome, soul of frelic (can be exchanged for 4 pieces of tt99 gold equipement of your choise), fisting ticket (can be exchanged with tt100 fists), soul of relaxed mind (can be exchanged with one piece of nirvana armor of ur choice).
did i miss something?
cost: 50 gold

WickedSwords - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Born_Free - Harshlands wrote: »

Coming from an Assassin who probably has APS.

The % of players that are APS junkies is MUCH MUCH MUCH higher than 1%.

Try somewhere between 30-40%.

Stay in the TB starter area. Count how many Assassins pop up. Now count the Psychics.

Go to Etherblade. Count how many Blademasters pop up. Now count the Wizards.

Scout Archosaur. Count the Blademasters. Now count the Asassins. Now count Barbs.

I won't even go into how many Clawbarians and Clawchers there are. I promise you, the amount is very, very high.

On the positive, Barbarians and Venomancers will retain their rightful place as the two strongest classes in the game. Assassins will be hated much less now. Archers might actually get a squad and be able to use their bows for a change. Caster classes besides archers might actually be asked to go on runs now.
And who knows, maybe Nirvana and TT runs will take the 30+ minutes that they were SUPPOSED TO.

I so agree with Miugre on this one. Boo hoo if you spent money on a broken system. Here's my cup of care--- Oh wait.....it's empty. :<

.....and lol to Machety who thinks it's possible to kill a stealth'd charmed demon 5APS Assassin. Do send me a video of it sometime, I'm dying to see it. The only person I can possibly think who would take down someone of that caliber.....are all in Zulu. (Nurfed, UrDian, Applequest, Rome, Kurses, and Curses.)

If they nurf APS, expect massive ragequitting and QQing from every APS class on the planet.....and celebration from everybody else.

I agree with her/him.I believe nerfing APS would bring more good then bad in overall.
For those who wonders why is that a good thing the answer is simple:To balance out game in overall since almost every class you see now is using claws and nirvana runs are nothing more then **** towards those who want to try it without so called APS(Funny thing tho few days ago i even saw some people requesting FB run with high APS...so whats it gonna be next?).If you do want to retain your ever so precious aps you should be gratefull if Fist becomes exclusive weapon for Blademasters only.In any other case nerfing APS is the best solution there is.

SilverCleric - Lost City · December 2010

Shifong - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If they nerf it, most effective change would be to decrease the chi you gain per hit. Now it's 5 chi per hit, but maybe they will lower it to 4 or 3 to prevent permaspark. They said they'd nerf it without touching the actual aps.

Well done you nerf the BM's chances of getting perma-spark but sins still have 4 move that give them 50 chi - 2 sparks so that won't work ijs.....

Also, even if they nerf 5aps sins still got plenty of stuns and Chill of the Deep + Jones Blessing + Crits = still high attack power... so stop about the nerf Sins. :P

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 · December 2010

Giving demon spark a 60 second cool down would be pretty good. It really is way too good of a skill to be spammed every 15 seconds.

+500% weapon attack
3 seconds invulnerability
+20% HP
+25% attack rate
self-purify
0 mana cost

It really not something designed to be spammed continuously.

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver · December 2010

To begin with, im a veno 100 an an assasin 100. My sin is 4.0 unsparked an 5.0 sparked with +12 nirvy daggers, I have like 6.5k life unbuffed. In all honesty the toon sorta sucks unless hes 1 barb buffed 2 cleric buffed 3 bm buffed. So i think that makes barbs clerics blade masters an sins all still needed in squad. venos are very usefull for pulling,an purge ,an amp damage, and bramble...not to mention if a veno has a +12 rank 8 pataka an herc then she is doing alot of damage too. Fact is aps does not exclude any other toon from getting a squad. I happily invite any class that has nearly 1.5-2 billion coins invested in thier toon.
Actually this is more of a class issue as the non aps people seem not to realize that a good aps toon costs so much. Yes my sin kicks butt but so would any other class if you inveted in it to the degree i have. And no sin or bm solos anything that a veno can not. Fact is they dont solo anything without getting buffs first.

KAZMOENEEK - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Stop saying tat....it's stupid.

playarcher · December 2010

So stop complaining anything about APS. If you don't hv any APS chars, sorry for yourself.

Thelas_Carr - Sanctuary · December 2010

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote:

Fact is aps does not exclude any other toon from getting a squad.

This doesn't seem to ring true at all... it's more like 5aps is to Nirvana what a herc-veno is to FCC... if you don't have it, you don't get invited nearly as often as those who do. The question is not one of exclusivity in the absolute, but an imbalance that is so great as to be an exclusivity in practice. DDs without 5aps get effectively excluded from Nirvana as much as veno without hercs get excluded from FCC.

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote:

Actually this is more of a class issue as the non aps people seem not to realize that a good aps toon costs so much. Yes my sin kicks butt but so would any other class if you inveted in it to the degree i have. And no sin or bm solos anything that a veno can not. Fact is they dont solo anything without getting buffs first.

I'd agree that there's a class issue when one class can solo anything that was originally intended to require an entire balanced squad. No, I'm pretty sure that no amount of investment will allow any class to solo any instance of worth (e.g., comparable spending on a cleric that can solo Nirvana like a kitted-out Sin... not gonna happen, but I'm fine with that).

If PW-CN does nerf APS, then the designers have realized that players can do something they did not intend and are just trying to fix it. If it gets fixed there it will get fixed here. *shrug*

Tigriss_o - Raging Tide · December 2010

KAZMOENEEK - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Stop saying tat....it's stupid.

Just as **** as people replacing S with Z. I'm not one for the NOOB your spelling and grammar is bad subject. I know people cant spell or suck a grammar. That I understand But purposely butchering the English language is where I draw the line. USE REAL WORDS PEOPLE.

WickedSwords - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Ladyhellcatq - Dreamweaver wrote: »

To begin with, im a veno 100 an an assasin 100. My sin is 4.0 unsparked an 5.0 sparked with +12 nirvy daggers, I have like 6.5k life unbuffed. In all honesty the toon sorta sucks unless hes 1 barb buffed 2 cleric buffed 3 bm buffed. So i think that makes barbs clerics blade masters an sins all still needed in squad. venos are very usefull for pulling,an purge ,an amp damage, and bramble...not to mention if a veno has a +12 rank 8 pataka an herc then she is doing alot of damage too. Fact is aps does not exclude any other toon from getting a squad. I happily invite any class that has nearly 1.5-2 billion coins invested in thier toon.
Actually this is more of a class issue as the non aps people seem not to realize that a good aps toon costs so much. Yes my sin kicks butt but so would any other class if you inveted in it to the degree i have. And no sin or bm solos anything that a veno can not. Fact is they dont solo anything without getting buffs first.

That is all nice.But in reality majority of players does not spend that much money(via cash shop or other way due to various reasons).That is why you can't generalize matter according to your own ability(of cash shop or farm wise.I won't go into that).

Jadsia - Lost City · December 2010

Okay.... I sat here for 30 minutes digesting all that was posted here. Arguments for and againt the nerfing of the 5 APS issue.

One argument regarding nirvana parties: I too have seen the WC seeking Int-only toons for nirvana. Let them have their all Int party and just create a non-Int party. Just that simple. I am positive that you, who are worried about never getting invited to a nirvana party because you do not have Int gear or are the wrong class and what not, are not the only one out there. You are probably one of severall hundred or a thousand in the same circumstance so seek them out and start your nirvana squad.

When I started playing this game a couple years ago I paid close attention to the quests and the overall message they were making which was that each class was supposed to have unique, independent, powerful sets of skills. These were designed to be well balanced between each classes and when used together in a party those skills were supposed to work together for a common goal of the players. I mean, The story was that the humans, elves, untamed were at war against each other and the tideborne said **** 'em all and hid their civilization from them until the wraith appeared and exploited the situation to take over perfect world. And the classes were forced into a truce and work together to defeat the wraith.

Am I close to it or what?

Now, in a balanced game it would require each of the classes to squad together in a party to achieve a goal like Nirvana, FFC, TT, FB - BH's and what not but that really isn't the case anymore as we see just 2 or 3 classes able to accomplish it just the same. And the result? That's a no brainer - a lot fewer of 1 class and a lot more of another class.

After watching the game evolve over the past couple years I have seen it migrate away from an all class game into a preferred class game and yes it means something is broken.

Now that they are creating 2 new classes it's going to be interesting to see how they try to make them balanced in an unbalanced game. Perhaps nerfing TT 3.1 was just a start.

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · December 2010

Alot of people will probably QQ and say, "like 5 aps people doesnt kill everyone in 2 sec" bah, they still have to run all the way to you, by then a wizzie can 1 or 2 shot a bm lmao come on get over it.

When a single class controls the economy, and no one else can possibly hope to catch up, the game is bad. I don't care if you are striving to take advantage of the system by making your own 5aps, and that you're idea of fun is being so powerful that no one even gets a chance to even click a skill before you kill them. In a game that offers PVP and has players unable to ante up or drop what they please, both sides need to have a chance to win. Period. Also, most pvp and pve players I know both in duels and pvp i have noticed won't fight you unless their character is so close to yours that they actually appear almost merged together. o_O

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver · December 2010

Xoria - Sanctuary wrote: »

PWE doesn't have to follow everything PWCN implements. PWE did not reset the map for TW when the Tideborn expansion came out, unlike the other countries. There are no stamps of darkness past FB59.

They do have to implement certain PWCN changes though, such as economy fixing one e.g. the dq price drop.

prof · December 2010

I never bothered to reply to this thread as the title and first page make me sigh. pw has its own license - giving it freedom to change anything they want and profit fully from the game. however, the pwe team is host and translators, not developers. they get their content from the chinese developers.

Mumintroll - Heavens Tear · December 2010

VenusArmani - Dreamweaver wrote: »

They do have to implement certain PWCN changes though, such as economy fixing one e.g. the dq price drop.

They implement what brings money. Simple. Nerfing APS would nerf their income so they never allow that.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear · December 2010

prof wrote: »

I never bothered to reply to this thread as the title and first page make me sigh. pw has its own license - giving it freedom to change anything they want and profit fully from the game. however, the pwe team is host and translators, not developers. they get their content from the chinese developers.

You're completely incorrect. PWE does not have its own license. PWE is a wholly owned subsidiary of PW-Beijing, and completely under its control. Its not like PW-MY, PW-MS (defunct), PW-PH, etc etc, as they are licensed, PWI is not. The american branch of the company (PWE) only handles translation and cash shop. Everything else developed in china is forced down our throats. Even look at past examples. They compensated us for DQ price reduction, through a web based system, rather then a direct in game reversal. They removed the perfect horns from the cash shop, but couldnt actually remove the implementation from the game (so a rare occasional stored one still pops up from time to time).

PWI mirrors PW-CN in every way as far as actual programming is concerned.

Mekkhala - Lost City · December 2010

I'm wondering if people going 5aps has actually resulted in PW making more money. Sure, they make money while the person is gearing up for it, but after the person has accomplished 5aps, would they? The amount of farming/moneymaking a 5aps char can do is crazy. Just curious...

WickedSwords - Heavens Tear · December 2010

In order to get 5aps you either need to spend a lot of cash if you want to cash shop that or actually invest lot of time either on farming or doing anything that is product of in game cash.
(Taking Cash shopping as solution would actually boost incomes of certain parties).

PaMpeReD - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You're completely incorrect. PWE does not have its own license. PWE is a wholly owned subsidiary of PW-Beijing, and completely under its control. Its not like PW-MY, PW-MS (defunct), PW-PH, etc etc, as they are licensed, PWI is not. The american branch of the company (PWE) only handles translation and cash shop. Everything else developed in china is forced down our throats. Even look at past examples. They compensated us for DQ price reduction, through a web based system, rather then a direct in game reversal. They removed the perfect horns from the cash shop, but couldnt actually remove the implementation from the game (so a rare occasional stored one still pops up from time to time).

PWI mirrors PW-CN in every way as far as actual programming is concerned.

+300 :P soo true ^^

Finra - Sanctuary · December 2010

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

The patches for PWI are made by the programmers of PW-CH, as you probably know.

The games are also owned by the same company, as you probably know.

So, if they believe that a certain change is for the good in one version of their game, it should be true of the other version, as the two versions are just about identical.

And besides, why are you so concerned about nerfing aps anyway? 5 APS affecting the game negatively is a fact. Claiming that it's not hurting the game would be ridiculous.

Its horrible to see a barb with Deicides... somewhat disturbing; just to fit into the 'trend' of 5 aps.. -_-... If everyone followed the trend then there's no such thing as "class" because everyone would be going for either claws or fists n they won't be using any skills of their class... therfore +1 to this I also believe its ruining the game. Not to mention there are also ppl who ditch squads that don't have a 5 aps... or keep asking what your aps is before letting you join a squad........ *sigh*...

UntamedFreak - Lost City · December 2010

i dont think any barb will QQ when 5aps is nerfed b:pleased

Mooy - Heavens Tear · December 2010

Oh so that's what they keep QQing about in CN forum. They keep saying 5.0 and I don't understand what that mean.

Razorburn - Dreamweaver · December 2010

I see way too many squads looking for only 5.0 in wc. However 5.0 as a sin and to have a usefull amount of damage an life costs very close to 2 biillion coins from money or play the game 8 hours a day for 5 years. Those same world chats asking for 5.0 are not going to want you even if they nerf aps. Instead they will just world chat for wizzy with +12 weapon or veno with +12 etc. Its just code for wanting highly cash shopped toons or the veterans of merchanting. So if your an average player with average gear, dont think that getting 5.0 nerfed means your getting into nirvana with any of those squads you see world chatting...
If your - insert- class- an you have great gear, honestly dont think you are unwanted in any squad .

if PWCN nerfed APS... does PWI have to follow???

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