Sage or Demon?

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Oh I tend to agree with you on the assumption that demon crits stack, but wiz sage masteries give an extra 25%. Where did the number 5% come from?

sage mastteries give an extra 5%...

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

sage mastteries give an extra 5%...

ecatomb reads 25%...right now (nice surprise for me)

Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »

they suck from lvls 1-34 where every other class sucks as well

by 60 they are the highest solo target dps in game past that for pve its just obscene

why are you argueing sins brokenness here? its not so much a question as a accepted fact at this point

If by "brokenness" u mean overpowered, which I think u do, then it's purely me using diplomatic language.

But, this illustrates something interesting about this game. It appears the designers do not approach it from the big picture perspective, or have godlike mathematical solutions to what they do. Instead, they make a change, watch the game, and then adjust it. Pretty neat because it leaves alot of the game open to creativity which keeps it really interesting.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

level 10 mastery gives 20%

demon gives 20% + 1% crit
sage gives 25%

25-20=5

Wishful thinking. lol

I have been experimenting with the undine/FOW/sutra combine. If u have a CE genie, it is extremely effective do something like this: und/fow/sutra/ce/sandstorm/ult If you're fast the undine lasts thru the last spell and the ult is sutra'd. Nice combo to surprise a big red on a pk. Chips the charm and then puts em down.

Thank you prof for that advise.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I have been experimenting with the undine/FOW/sutra combine. If u have a CE genie, it is extremely effective do something like this: und/fow/sutra/ce/sandstorm/ult If you're fast the undine lasts thru the last spell and the ult is sutra'd

I assume ce = cloud eruption? If so, why would you need it to use an ultimate? and what do you mean 'if you're fast'? undine last for 12 seconds, that's ample time to use a 5 hit combo. example:

399 vigour first

undine > seal > sutra > divine pyrogram > pyrogram > gush > divine pyrogram > blade tempest

b:bye

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

What do you mean wishful thinking?

Level 10 masteries, aka pre-sage or pre-demon, give 20% damage for the respective element. Sage masteries give 25%, which is 5% extra from level 10.

Demon masteries give 1% crit for us -- which is a total extra attribute, the 20% dmg from level 10 is still there, obviously. You don't "degrade" your masteries from level10 by going demon.

I was simply talking about the extra that both give as sage/demon versions compared to level10.

It was wishful thinking for a sage to want 25% instead of 5%. lol (it was wishful thinking on my part...not yours).

You're focusing on demon crit masteries and whether or not that stacks to 3%. Or, do you receive an increase in the mastered area of attack..ie...1%? It seems like you should be right, but you never know. Sage masteries don't stack (i assume). Why stack demon?

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

b:byethis will kill virtually anything with less than 15k Hp or less easy.

If you have a +10 weapon its just overkill

combining that with genie spark is even more OP.. Just Sayin'

brings me to back to the days with my +5 yaksa with 1 immaculate sapphires. Did a spark + undine with divine pyrogram and hit a person for 10k uncrit XD

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

A sutra'd ult is one of the game's greatest attacks (I don't have to be a pro to see this ). I use CE if I don't have the sparks to throw the ult...if I do, then no use wasting the genie. An idea: Why not throw Sage Pyro into the combine along with Sage Chi Skill so maybe the combination attack rebuilds enough chi to throw the sutra'd ult without CE? Then, of course u have a genie skill available for an Amp, or, if the target(s) survives and its time to scramble, a defensive genie skill like fortify, domain, ice, expel, etc..., OR a genie spark for whatever u may deem necessary (like another nuke).

If I'm missing something major here, please inform.

399 chi > sutra > 199 chi > wtfeveryouwant x4 > ulti

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

The major thing you are missing is that you start with 399 chi. Sutra takes 200 chi, ult takes 200 chi.. so u just need to use 1 skill after sutra to give yourself enough chi to use your ult.

Ok, we're getting down to the bones of it. I've been using CE to get the sutra'd ult because I'm not starting with a full compliment when the action starts. But, isn't that life in PWI? lol

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

Ok, we're getting down to the bones of it. I've been using CE to get the sutra'd ult because I'm not starting with a full compliment when the action starts. But, isn't that life in PWI? lol

When you are sage the only excuse you have for not having chi is because you just logged on.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

When you are sage the only excuse you have for not having chi is because you just logged on.

or just died :P

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

TY Tonight I was working it fine. I just basically got my sage chi skill (and sage pyro) and learning that it should be spammed. With lvl 6 CE I have plenty of chi for most occasions. Next big question is my 5th genie slot and filling it with Fortify, Expel, Domain, or some other defensive minded genie skill (my currents are CE, EP, Frenzy, and Holy Path). Belief looks good too. Nobody talks about that one. Nobody talks about chi drain genie skills either. Gale is interesting if u pvp in the air alot (I just hate to waste a slot on an unused specialty item).

Faith (Belief) is a really good skill, I might have gotten it if the affinities matched up more with the other skills I wanted. I think every wiz should get either domain or faith (to get both you need a lvl 105 genie.. lol).

If I were you, and was making a pvp genie.. I'd get domain and probably dump CE for fortify. CE is nice (especially for TW and PvE) but you really shouldn't be having any chi trouble at all in world pvp. Maybe you don't have enough sage skills, sage distance shrink is AMAZING, the ulties are nice, and I was surprised how often I use frostblade actually (lvl 11 frostblade gives 20 chi as opposed to like 5 chi at lvl 10). Don't know if you have elemental shell (79 skill) but thats essentially another 30 chi/minute for free. If I just died or logged on and dont have enough chi, I just kite around spamming pyro/gush and look back a few seconds later and I'm at 2+ sparks. IMO a skill like fortify/expel/spark would be much more useful for a sage wizard.. where we are already chi factories.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

(lvl 11 frostblade gives 20 chi as opposed to like 5 chi at lvl 10)

lvl 1 is 10 chi, didnt know sage frostblade did 20 :x i wonder why. I might think about lvling that. But 600 mana spamming between cooldowns of elemental shell and sage's 50 chi skill seems like mana **** to me, so.. idk.

Pearlwood - Lost City wrote: »

I'll take it under consideration. It's very difficult to let go of another great source of chi, tho (CE), especially when I spend a lot of time Frosting with guildies. And, no, elemental shell was last on my list of 79s, so I don't have it yet (I'm now considering the possibility that I made a mistake getting the sleep spell before elemental), but in any event, elemental shell is coming up next.

I'm not surprised Fortify is recommended. The only thing about Fortify is that it's dex based and my genie is primarily strength right now. And, I've been rather disappointed in EP for some reason. The amp I've experienced with EP in no way compares to the amp I get with Frenzy....which is my favorite genie skill of all, to be honest (but I've always proceeded under the theory that with Wiz, the best defense is a good offense . And, I'm also considering developing a pvp genie to go along with a pve genie. Ideally, I want one genie with enough slots to do both, but practically speaking I may have to go the alternate route.

For what it's worth, I've been speaking with a friend who is a 97 Sin. He says that Domain plus Vacuity Powder is a good way to deal with Sins. And, also mentioned your technique of using emberstorm against them (it was agreed that is probably the best single use of that skill, which is otherwise suicidal). He said all u have to do is touch them with level 1 with a double click.... I'm still not sure I understand how that works against a Sin, but it's apparent that timing is the key.

All of our 79 skills are amazing, although I think you made a good choice getting ele shell last. Extreme poison and frenzy should be the same amp (actually poison should be a little bit better if you are using jones blessing.. as not many people stack def lvl, so diminishing returns should be kicking in.. but thats another story). You may want to also look into genie spark, as this will increase your damage far more than frenzy or extreme poison with a high dex genie.

As for sins, at end game the only way to beat them is if you outgear then by ALOT or they make a mistake (which most of them do fairly frequently). Vacuity powder is basically useless against an interval sin because they will just kill u b4 u can kill them(even w/o their stun lock). IMO your best bet is an immune pot, which generally makes them at least use their force stealth. Emberstorm is useful because it is a charge aoe. Charge just means it "charges" up for extra damage, but you can use it almost instantly if you choose to. So lets say you are fighting a sin and you somehow get the advantage so they force stealth to basically start over. If you are lucky there will be a mob, player, or npc near where u last saw them, so you rush over there (holy path/blink etc) and insta cast emberstorm on any target near where they last were. If they didnt move out of the way quick enough, you'll knock the sin out of stealth.. continuing the fight while you have the advantage.

@sun - ya my bad. Couldnt remember if it was 5 or 10 chi before lvl11 and was too lazy to check so added a "like" to my post