Sage or Demon?

MageFizban - Lost City

Elendria - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Well it works for me everytime. I think then it must be a glitch on DW server, but when I use WOP they get kicked out here, well then again they usually die so you might be right. Also again I am talking about TW. If you know how to TW correctly it means team work right? Not "oh I go on my own pk rampage". So what do you have your squad for?

Sins cannot attack multiple targets at once. Especially if you stand in distance to each other. Assuming your squad members are all in vent channel with you, you call out the minute you have someone on you. Sins are in big trouble in TW when they come out of stealth attacking a member that communicates well in vent. Assist attack from another OP wizard and the sin has to either force and run or die. At the end of the day this is a discussion about wizards, if you are all so mezmerized by sins skills why don't you reroll a sin? I still love my wizard and still see how many sins I kill in TW. Or is there already an OP Sin_Fizban? I wanna see, I wanna see... b:victory

Also you always have dedicated squads that take out sins as they attack other targets. Unless the sins are 103+ detection potions always work if you are 103 or one of your squad members is. Always make sure your highest lvl has them equipped. Usually in our TW each squad has one dedicated person with the highest lvl that has them equipped and mainly is using those to detect them early give information to ranged squad members, they assist attack and the sin is killed even before they have a chance to react.

Mizi remember that one time when I used the potion and realized we had three sins around us and we all assist attacked and killed all three of them? That was freaking hillarious as they were just standing there probably shocked that we could detect them....b:laughb:chuckleb:laugh

No, it does not work for you. There is no glitch on DW server that allows you knock sins out of stealth with your last attack. The only way they get knocked out of stealth is if they die from that attack. Then they uninvis dead.

The highlighted statement is like saying "Mages can't attack multiple targets at once. Especially if you keep distance between each other." We BOTH know that clumping happens in TW even in the best factions (that know better) despite whatever we do to prevent it. It's an inevitability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg4jq1g5_-M#t=5m19s

If you look carefully at the base entrance, you can see cheze massacre pretty much everyone around him with aoes. Also, props to Adroit's timing of music b:laugh

Yeah, detection potting won't quite work seeing as 99% of the sins on our server that matter are 103+, and you will not be able to see them even with a detection pot when they're in Shadow Escape unless you're Elayne.

Granted, the faction I'm in has 4 lvl 105s, 2 lvl 104s, and 13 lvl 103s. However, it's a waste of apoth to use detection pots especially in TW.

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

I misspelled Literally...b:cry

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Elendria - Dreamweaver wrote: »

And on the other hand all of you who state the difference between 120 to 150% is not big, are any of you actually demon wizards with demon stone barrier?

Have you been both sage (120%) and demon (150%)? If not, doesn't your argument fall of its own weight, since you would have tried 120% to know?

Not taking sides, ija

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Self buffed, you are talking 120% pdef vs 150% pdef.. or full buffed 270% vs 300%, it just isn't as dramatic a difference as you make it sound. It's definitetly nice, don't get me wrong.. but its not like night and day. It's just a tad bit more pdef.

vs

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

@Blood - that 5% you speak of (85 - 90% I'm assuming) means you take 33% less damage with ele shell. That is pretty significant. That reduces the damage I take by 3 and a half times.. which is VERY significant.

Your story changes depending on who you decide to try to be smarter than that particular day. Honestly, try to keep your stories straight.

Adroit - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Have you been both sage (120%) and demon (150%)? If not, doesn't your argument fall of its own weight, since you would have tried 120% to know?

Not taking sides, ija



vs



Your story changes depending on who you decide to try to be smarter than that particular day. Honestly, try to keep your stories straight.

Just because it's a percentage doesn't mean its talking about the same thing. Note the context, 120-150% is about increase in pdef, whereas that 5% is talking about damage reduction relative to the 90% cap in resists. Two different things.

MageFizban - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

Your story changes depending on who you decide to try to be smarter than that particular day. Honestly, try to keep your stories straight.

I agree with BLOOD's first argument. However, his second is akin to saying hmm. Well let's just put it this way.

The difference between 99% pdef reduction and 100% pdef reduction is analogous to that of 271k pdef and infinity pdef which would be an infinity % change. Just because they're both in percent forms doesn't mean that they signify the same thing.

With Elendria's gear (or something similar) http://pwcalc.com/d3a2a05339b8b21d, the difference between sage and demon stone barrier just self-buffed is 71% pdef reduction vs 73% pdef reduction which would translate to 6.9% less phys dmg taken. Full-buffed, this difference lowers to 80% vs 81% which is 5% less phys dmg taken.

Clearly not cultivation changing.

Adroit - Lost City

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

I agree with BLOOD's first argument.

*gasp* did someone divide by zero? b:surrender

MageFizban - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

*gasp* did someone divide by zero? b:surrender

It was the lesser of two evils. His statement was more logically sound than Elendria's.

Adroit - Lost City

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

It was the lesser of two evils. His statement was more logically sound than Elendria's.

oh I know, I just didn't think I'd come across someone that made less sense than BLOOD in my lifetime.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I misspelled Literally...b:cry

Your siggy...it's...it's beautiful...b:sad

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Just because it's a percentage doesn't mean its talking about the same thing. Note the context, 120-150% is about increase in pdef, whereas that 5% is talking about damage reduction relative to the 90% cap in resists. Two different things.

I know, but you don't think an addition 30% pdef will result in SOME significant reduction to damage taken? I don't know her gear, but I doubt she is maxed at 90%, is she? b:shocked

And even if she is, its still relevant to point that out to the rest of the readers. You said YOU didn't blah blah blah b/c of your cultivation choice and that it was insignificant.

Well, you like to say you have **** gear, lol, so another 30% on top of **** gear isn't significant?

Demon stone barrier vs sage stone barrier is significant for 90% or more of the players, I am quite certain. Something they wouldn't be able to discern from your early dismissal of it.

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

the difference between sage and demon stone barrier just self-buffed is 71% pdef reduction vs 73% pdef reduction which would translate to 6.9% less phys dmg taken.

Clearly not cultivation changing.

I guess I got 71%-74% for a 3% difference, which inches damage taken percentage closer to 10%.

And I don't think I was talking cultivation changing, I was talking "significant". And I think anything close to 10% is significant.

And when you move from her gear to Adroit's gear to the average wizard's gear, it only becomes more significant.

I just found it odd that he thought that difference was insignificant when it is a relatively permanent buff when he found significance in a much more limited buff (ele shell) that lasts only 4 seconds.

rebarbora1

I had both wizards in PW servers. And difference of stone barrier between sage and demon is not significant when you already have couple thousands p.def. I saw much more benefit from demon wizard with his controlling skills, which are far better then sage skills. like, pitfall, emberstorm, hailstorm + faster channeling with 3 spark. But difference between stone barriers is practically nothing with end game gear.

Adroit - Lost City

With my gear, its a reduction of 61% vs 64%, which is still not even a 10% reduction in damage. I didn't say the difference between the barriers wasn't significant, just not the HUGE difference that Elendria was making it sound like. Also, in case you still hadn't grasped the math involved, I'll show you again where the numbers actually go. We are talking an extra 30% between stone barriers, or an extra 1000% earth/fire/water/metal resists with ele shell. Looking at damage taken, stone barrier seems to hover ~5-10% change in reduction, and ele shell obv depends on gear.. but unbuffed mages should be taking less than half their regular damage (aside from earth) for the 4 seconds it is activated.

MageFizban - Lost City

BLOODMYSTIC - Archosaur wrote: »

I guess I got 71%-74% for a 3% difference, which inches damage taken percentage closer to 10%.

And I don't think I was talking cultivation changing, I was talking "significant". And I think anything close to 10% is significant.

Yes, it is clearly significant. I mean even in statistics, 5% is taken as significant in most cases.

However, demon wizards always tout stone barrier as one of their prime arguments. My previous calculations were just quantifying the actual difference between the two cultivations.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Elendria - Dreamweaver

I only think it's funny how you guys talk about logical or not logical, then talk about how you pull out your calculators to get your numbers right, yet none of you actually play a demon wizard to make a realistic statement.

I remember when Mizuoni told me that he was calculating numbers between the possibility of 99 gear and his current 90 gear. That according to the numbers his 90 gear was by far better and he wouldn't see the sence in making 99 gear. That is when I told him sometimes in this game you can throw your calculators out of the window. Sometimes the numbers don't make sence. I told him to get the 99 gear and even according to his numbers the 99 gear would still make a big difference.

He followed made his gear and then surprise, surprise more survivability...

All I am saying I am not standing here bashing Sage wizards and their skills as I have high respect for them, I'm not bashing sage BIDS as your uber skill, yet you guys all jump on a demon wizards proud skill while you have never even played a demon wizard, or applied that skill, yet even played with it in tough TW situations. To make a statement about how those TWs must have been minor TWs is just ignorant as you are making an assumption as a statement.

Maybe, just maybe its time to get of the high sage horse and accept that demon wizards are on the same lvl and to dismiss one would be a foolish thing to do.

b:surrender

Mizuoni - Dreamweaver

Elendria - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I only think it's funny how you guys talk about logical or not logical, then talk about how you pull out your calculators to get your numbers right, yet none of you actually play a demon wizard to make a realistic statement.

I remember when Mizuoni told me that he was calculating numbers between the possibility of 99 gear and his current 90 gear. That according to the numbers his 90 gear was by far better and he wouldn't see the sence in making 99 gear. That is when I told him sometimes in this game you can throw your calculators out of the window. Sometimes the numbers don't make sence. I told him to get the 99 gear and even according to his numbers the 99 gear would still make a big difference.

He followed made his gear and then surprise, surprise more survivability...

All I am saying I am not standing here bashing Sage wizards and their skills as I have high respect for them, I'm not bashing sage BIDS as your uber skill, yet you guys all jump on a demon wizards proud skill while you have never even played a demon wizard, or applied that skill, yet even played with it in tough TW situations. To make a statement about how those TWs must have been minor TWs is just ignorant as you are making an assumption as a statement.

Maybe, just maybe its time to get of the high sage horse and accept that demon wizards are on the same lvl and to dismiss one would be a foolish thing to do.

b:surrender

b:surrenderI was actually surprised too.

Adroit - Lost City

Elendria - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I only think it's funny how you guys talk about logical or not logical, then talk about how you pull out your calculators to get your numbers right, yet none of you actually play a demon wizard to make a realistic statement.

I remember when Mizuoni told me that he was calculating numbers between the possibility of 99 gear and his current 90 gear. That according to the numbers his 90 gear was by far better and he wouldn't see the sence in making 99 gear. That is when I told him sometimes in this game you can throw your calculators out of the window. Sometimes the numbers don't make sence. I told him to get the 99 gear and even according to his numbers the 99 gear would still make a big difference.

He followed made his gear and then surprise, surprise more survivability...

All I am saying I am not standing here bashing Sage wizards and their skills as I have high respect for them, I'm not bashing sage BIDS as your uber skill, yet you guys all jump on a demon wizards proud skill while you have never even played a demon wizard, or applied that skill, yet even played with it in tough TW situations. To make a statement about how those TWs must have been minor TWs is just ignorant as you are making an assumption as a statement.

Maybe, just maybe its time to get of the high sage horse and accept that demon wizards are on the same lvl and to dismiss one would be a foolish thing to do.

b:surrender

I see demon wizards as equivalent to sage (although I'd never make one xD), but you have been hugely exaggerating how much demon stone barrier helps. I've said it before, demon stone barrier is definitely nice, but it isn't going to change your role in TW or pk. It's just a nice perk. I'm just as envious of demon for the -channeling, and better control skills as I am for stone barrier. As far as putting the math aside, I think that is just silly. Even back when I was calculating the damage between HH99 +10 and my 1st cast +10, it turned out in game to be exactly where I was expecting it to be (I had some problem way back in the day when I was neglecting variables, but after I figured that out its been pretty simple).

Lirora - Dreamweaver

Sage seriously go Sage on your Wiz
I played Demon and Sage wiz for just as PvE as PvP and had alot of different builds before from heavy armor to light armor to arcane armor and Sage just ROCKS!

Sage: gains more chi, still gets more physical defens from Sage stone barrier that is decent to live with, not to forget the Sage BIDS

while...

Demon: demon wizzies relay to much on their channeling which in the end is just a smash some buttons and are like "see how pro I am" stuns that fail more then you want and in the end still can't make any difference then before they where demon

ps: excuses for the wizzies that think I hate them because they choose the demon way.

MageFizban - Lost City

Elendria - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I only think it's funny how you guys talk about logical or not logical, then talk about how you pull out your calculators to get your numbers right, yet none of you actually play a demon wizard to make a realistic statement.

I remember when Mizuoni told me that he was calculating numbers between the possibility of 99 gear and his current 90 gear. That according to the numbers his 90 gear was by far better and he wouldn't see the sence in making 99 gear. That is when I told him sometimes in this game you can throw your calculators out of the window. Sometimes the numbers don't make sence. I told him to get the 99 gear and even according to his numbers the 99 gear would still make a big difference.

He followed made his gear and then surprise, surprise more survivability...

All I am saying I am not standing here bashing Sage wizards and their skills as I have high respect for them, I'm not bashing sage BIDS as your uber skill, yet you guys all jump on a demon wizards proud skill while you have never even played a demon wizard, or applied that skill, yet even played with it in tough TW situations. To make a statement about how those TWs must have been minor TWs is just ignorant as you are making an assumption as a statement.

Maybe, just maybe its time to get of the high sage horse and accept that demon wizards are on the same lvl and to dismiss one would be a foolish thing to do.

b:surrender

Math doesn't lie. Your perceived survivability is subjective to many factors. If you throw your calculators out the window, you'll end up with gears like BLOODMYSTIC and be simultaneously ostracized and ridiculed when trying to grasp at unsupported claims when attempting to justify your gear.

The entire reason this thread is always highly contested whenever it comes up is WHOLLY due to the fact that sage and demon wizzes are very similar in their viability. No one is arguing that.

However, asserting your unmatched dominance in survivability in TW when compared with sage wizzies is what we're arguing. On an unrelated note, where is the TW vid that you promised? I'm sure we're all looking forward to viewing it.

Adroit - Lost City

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Math doesn't lie. Your perceived survivability is subjective to many factors. If you throw your calculators out the window, you'll end up with gears like BLOODMYSTIC and be simultaneously ostracized and ridiculed when trying to grasp at unsupported claims when attempting to justify your gear.

The entire reason this thread is always highly contested whenever it comes up is WHOLLY due to the fact that sage and demon wizzes are very similar in their viability. No one is arguing that.

However, asserting your unmatched dominance in survivability in TW when compared with sage wizzies is what we're arguing. On an unrelated note, where is the TW vid that you promised? I'm sure we're all looking forward to viewing it.

i lub u

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

I'm a demon wiz. I'm thinking that I'm going to change to Sage once I'm 100.

If you guys could maybe tell me some of the positives of going Sage compared to Demon?

I'm already aware that Demons have a stronger SS, slightly better SB, a faster pyro, a stone rain that might stun, hailstorm/pitfall have higher chances to paralyze, and FoW has a slightly lower cooldown.

On the other hand Sage has BIDS, an AOE FoW, lower chi costing blink, a pyro that has a chance to gain additional chi, and ofc the chi skill.

What am I missing that might make me decide to stay demon, or definitely want to go sage?

Adroit - Lost City

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm a demon wiz. I'm thinking that I'm going to change to Sage once I'm 100.

If you guys could maybe tell me some of the positives of going Sage compared to Demon?

I'm already aware that Demons have a stronger SS, slightly better SB, a faster pyro, a stone rain that might stun, hailstorm/pitfall have higher chances to paralyze, and FoW has a slightly lower cooldown.

On the other hand Sage has BIDS, an AOE FoW, lower chi costing blink, a pyro that has a chance to gain additional chi, and ofc the chi skill.

What am I missing that might make me decide to stay demon, or definitely want to go sage?

I'm sure you probably realize this, but its all personal preference. You can't really go wrong either way. When I think about ways to kill a tough opponent (I'm not going to base my cultivation on the easy ones.. lol), all of them include chi. My best options to kill people in a 1v1 situation is either sutra or a bypass (usually with an ult). With all the counters available (genie + apoth.. even mdef charms) the first kill attempt usually won't work. It's truly a luxury being able to use my sparks to force a counter (such as genie energy) without having any worry that I'll be able to get that chi back. Just having a skill I can spam for extra chi when I'm low, to have ultis taking 1 spark, chi skill, and ESPECIALLY half cost distance shrink, means I am always building chi and one less thing I need to worry about.

I remember probably the turning point from thinking I was going demon to wanting to go sage back when I was 8x. I had just had a bug report, and logged back in (outside sz) and ended up in a 1v1 with a bm seconds later. In the probably 10 minute fight, I just could NOT build chi. It was like.. use a skill for 15 chi, distance shrink and lose 20 chi.. and the only times I was able to build chi was when I used fow for an extra skill.. or when I dropped out of range. I just remember thinking to myself it was going to be impossible to kill this bm without a double spark or sutra (this was back before genies.. and before I had sleep/ele shell.. low 8x I think). I think it was about 5 minutes in when I finally built up enough chi to double spark.. and for whatever reason it didn't finish off the bm (I think I got stunned?) and I had to start again with basically no chi. I think this was the time I really realized that demon builds chi the same as pre-89, and sage would really give me an advantage in this situation. I did end up killing the bm.. but it really showed me how chi reliant I was.. and how hard it was to build chi while kiting (at that level).

Nowadays, I can waste chi and not even worry about it.. I'm sure you can see in my video fighting Calvin, I build chi quite easily.. even after a triple spark, it wasn't long until I was back up to 2 sparks. I get comments all the time with people complaining that I ALWAYS have chi. It's also nice after I die to be ready to fight so quickly. Spawn in town -> ele shell + chi skill (65 chi) -> frostblade (85 chi) -> stone barrier (55 chi) and I'm set for 5 distance shrinks. By the time I've flown out, my genie will have regen'd enough for me to begin kiting and basically get back in the fight. For the way I kite, it feels like pre sage.. I would use almost as much chi with distance shrink as I would gain chi with the 1-2 skills I could use before my next shrink. Sage tips that scale a bit so without even thinking about it.. your chi bar is filling up.

With all that said, I love my sage wizard, but demon does have its own advantages. I know alot of people really like -channeling and crit (which demon offers), and various other little perks. I'd say sage's real strength is chi building (sage bids is secondary tbh), but demons have alot of nice skill effects that balance things out. Better control skills, -channeling, crit, farther distance shrink, better stone barrier.. etc etc. Just follow your gut, you ain't gimping yourself either way :P

Mortal_Kiss - Heavens Tear

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'm a demon wiz. I'm thinking that I'm going to change to Sage once I'm 100.

If you guys could maybe tell me some of the positives of going Sage compared to Demon?

I'm already aware that Demons have a stronger SS, slightly better SB, a faster pyro, a stone rain that might stun, hailstorm/pitfall have higher chances to paralyze, and FoW has a slightly lower cooldown.

On the other hand Sage has BIDS, an AOE FoW, lower chi costing blink, a pyro that has a chance to gain additional chi, and ofc the chi skill.

What am I missing that might make me decide to stay demon, or definitely want to go sage?

OMG. Why every1 think, that demon has stronger SS? It was told millions times, that thanks to 5% more damage from sage masteries is SS demon STILL weaker than sage. Especially in these days, when rank 8 and 9 is out. With just these weapons refined +5 is already demon SS weaker than sage SS. And it counts on every other spell and difference is higher with refines against demon SS.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

Thanks for the response Adroit b:cute

Yeah the reasons you stated are one of the biggest reasons I was considering sage. Demon is powerful as hell when I'm prepared and have sparks, but the problem is that I'm really a one trick pony as a demon wiz.

My best bet is to genie bait the opponent with a sleep>ulti combo, but if that doesn't work, or I hit them with a ulti and they had mdef charms up, I'm really pretty screwed, because I'm looking at maybe 3+ minutes of kiting and using ele shell to build chi.

And yeah Sage BIDS is just a bonus. But it's definitely a BIG bonus b:pleased

Elendria - Dreamweaver

MageFizban - Lost City wrote: »

Math doesn't lie. Your perceived survivability is subjective to many factors. If you throw your calculators out the window, you'll end up with gears like BLOODMYSTIC and be simultaneously ostracized and ridiculed when trying to grasp at unsupported claims when attempting to justify your gear.

The entire reason this thread is always highly contested whenever it comes up is WHOLLY due to the fact that sage and demon wizzes are very similar in their viability. No one is arguing that.

However, asserting your unmatched dominance in survivability in TW when compared with sage wizzies is what we're arguing. On an unrelated note, where is the TW vid that you promised? I'm sure we're all looking forward to viewing it.

Wow Mage no need to get aggressive and harsh here.. Noone is fighting. Well noone was talking about unmatched dominance, be careful when choosing words. I stated that demon SB gives you better survivability and therefore also directs your play style.

Ok lets bring up some history. Maybe that will enlighten many. Since this comes now from the opponents view and not your friends that might tell you what they see and think in a different way as they are never on the other side of the table. Remember the good old days on Dreamweaver?

Well there were two wizards in EQ that made themselves a name in TW back then. The two wizards were Mage_Fizban and wizzard. One was sage and the other one was demon. Both had completely different play styles. One was more defensive while the other was more offensive. And they both were know for their strength. Do you remember what it was?

Well Mage_Fizban was known and feared for his firepower. All heavy classes used to be scared of meeting Mage_Fizban in TW and mostly scared that he just might shoot a BIDS their way. But what was wizzard known for besides his firepower? He was known and feared because of his incredible survivability. Even when ganked he would survive and made his opponents life miserable as they had a hard time killing him. Sure wizzard was an incredible pker and had a great deal of experience, but don't you think that maybe just maybe the demon skills offered him such a play style?

I also remember my very good friend Surfergirl ( I miss you ( ) that was playing back then and was ruling the pk rankings before she departed from the game. She was a sage beast and she was the only sage wizard that was not stuck on her way. She always used to say I chose sage because it was the right choice for me. And everytime she would see other sage wizards flaming demon wizards she would just tell them to ****. LOL Anyhow I played along Surfergirl's side many many times and had her in my squad in TW also many many times. Here it comes. When it came to pk Surfergirl was a beast and people feared her on OT like no other. EQ used to have her name on the top "have to kill" list in TW. However as greatly as Surfergirl shined in pk in TW most people did not want to squad with her. The reasoning was that she wanted to play TW as she used to play pk. Surfer was a very offensive player and never backed down. That created a problem for her in TW as she was getting mowed down left and right and you would see her more dead than alive. Then you had other sage wizards coming after like Mizuoni that wanted to play very deffensive and I showed him that he could be more aggressive but not crazy like Surfer. And he did much better in TW than her. b:kiss

I don't know what I have done to you Mage that you have to become so violent in your words, but you are not the only wizard with experience. There are plenty of wizards with knowledge and its all about accepting each other and maybe being open to someone elses views.

A video will come no worries, but since Calamity disbanded and EQ is a great deal weaker than they used to be ones there are no interesting and tough TWs going on on Dreamweaver server. Maybe in a few weeks we will start having tougher battles again as the two biggest factions are getting closer to each other. You don't want to see a video of a roll over there is no point to it.

_Spot_ - Lost City

Adroit is very right on the chi building i have 100 dmeon wiz and most of the fights i loose due to the lack of chi...

Really she male me remeber the days that i wanted to cast a ultimate or even sutra but kiting always ended up eating my chi...

Go sage....

One more thing is the sage masterys will make u hit even harder with the rank madness sage is the way...

Hope it helps.

DaKillanator - Raging Tide

yeah I think I'm definitely gonna change

Changing culti just requires the schism and that you did your 100 culti right? I heard it was fairly easy to do, but ofc the downside is that you lose all your old culti's skills.

If that's the case, then it's definitely worth it in the long term for me b:pleased

Unless ofc they update wizzy demon spark to increase our aps, in which case I'm restatting a clawzard b:avoid

Adroit - Lost City

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

yeah I think I'm definitely gonna change

Changing culti just requires the schism and that you did your 100 culti right? I heard it was fairly easy to do, but ofc the downside is that you lose all your old culti's skills.

If that's the case, then it's definitely worth it in the long term for me b:pleased

Unless ofc they update wizzy demon spark to increase our aps, in which case I'm restatting a clawzard b:avoid

haha well pre-welcome to sage wizzy! If memory serves you will probably need 200 mirages as well, and the 100 culti will definitely take a few days (at least) to complete. It's a fairly long quest chain, but definitely doable. A big portion of it is getting 4th map, but if you already have that.. you'd be most of the way there. Good luck!

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary

DaKillanator - Raging Tide wrote: »

Thanks for the response Adroit b:cute

Yeah the reasons you stated are one of the biggest reasons I was considering sage. Demon is powerful as hell when I'm prepared and have sparks, but the problem is that I'm really a one trick pony as a demon wiz.

My best bet is to genie bait the opponent with a sleep>ulti combo, but if that doesn't work, or I hit them with a ulti and they had mdef charms up, I'm really pretty screwed, because I'm looking at maybe 3+ minutes of kiting and using ele shell to build chi.

And yeah Sage BIDS is just a bonus. But it's definitely a BIG bonus b:pleased

Do you have cloud eruption on a pure STR genie?

That really should help you with some of that chi dependance. I'm in the process of turning some of my junk genies into Cloud Eruption genies for my upcoming alts (Sin and possibly cleric, though mostly just for Sin).

You can also use Chi Pots...

But... ultimately, it comes down to how much dps you can do without spark.

Adroit - Lost City

Sarrafeline - Sanctuary wrote: »

Do you have cloud eruption on a pure STR genie?

That really should help you with some of that chi dependance. I'm in the process of turning some of my junk genies into Cloud Eruption genies for my upcoming alts (Sin and possibly cleric, though mostly just for Sin).

You can also use Chi Pots...

But... ultimately, it comes down to how much dps you can do without spark.

cloud eruption and apoth are definitely nice, but remember they do have their downsides. Using cloud eruption on a genie already limits what skills you will be able to put on your genie, and you will need to choose whether to use your genie energy for chi or for defense/offense. Same goes for apoth, being sage I VERY rarely feel the need to use a chi pot, so my apoth are always available for an immune/no channel/dew of star etc. To be perfectly honest, I don't think cloud eruption or a chi pot are really practical for either cultivation in world pvp.. does no good having chi and then killed a few seconds later. I watch for someone to waste their chi on something silly so I can finish them with a sleep -> ulti, remember.. the only thing you can use while stunned/slept is genie, so you waste that energy and I'll sleep -> ulti.. any melee class would find a way to get a stun in.. you're basically screwed. I think ce is fantastic in TW, in downtime between fights, pve etc.. but should never be used to keep your chi up in world pvp.. the cost is just too high imo.

And dps really shouldn't matter for a wizard, it's all about the DPH b:dirty (well I guess sutra is more dps.. but other than that :P)

edit: I'm not saying demon wizards should skip ce or anything.. I'm just saying putting a skill like that on your genie won't magically mean you have the advantages of demon + sage. If you were to spam ce on your genie, the difference between sage and demon would be that demon is roughly equivalent to sage in chi building.. has slightly better skills.. but no genie/apoth to play with (lawl.. good luck fighting w/o a genie in today's day and age). Or you sage could use ce/chi pots.. and still have more chi.