Sage or Demon?

Adroit - Lost City

Xer - Lost City wrote: »

For me demon is a 1vs1 mage

sage is more for sq mage becous of its extra chi for ulltis
tho in my eyes demon have more efectiv 11 skills so as demon SS,

And what makes you think demon is any better than sage for 1v1's? I personally think demon is more suited for -channeling builds, and sage is better for basically everything else. Of course that's just my opinion, but I don't really see demon as having any real advantages over sage in 1v1's.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Demon spark and faster channeling on single-target nukes (divine pyro and glacial snare) I guess.

Adroit - Lost City

Borsuc - Raging Tide wrote: »

Demon spark and faster channeling on single-target nukes (divine pyro and glacial snare) I guess.

well yes those are both perks of demon, but sage also has perks like crazy chi building and sage BIDS. I'm not saying sage is better than demon per say, but I don't see how the demon perks are better than the sage perks for 1v1's.

Borsuc - Raging Tide

Yeah you're right but I think it's the misconception that people think sage ultis (and chi gaining) are only useful in TWs... like, you don't use BIDS on single target because it's an AOE b:chuckle

prof

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

well yes those are both perks of demon, but sage also has perks like crazy chi building and sage BIDS. I'm not saying sage is better than demon per say, but I don't see how the demon perks are better than the sage perks for 1v1's.

what perk do you get in 1v1s besides chi? which, could be null because demon using skills faster = more chi gain.

that's just me, because i've never lost to a sage 1v1 unless they glitch cast. i've never found pills to be fair in a 1v1, though. b:surrender

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

what perk do you get in 1v1s besides chi? which, could be null because demon using skills faster = more chi gain.

that's just me, because i've never lost to a sage 1v1 unless they glitch cast. i've never found pills to be fair in a 1v1, though. b:surrender

Most wiz v wiz I've had is just FoW -> poke -> kite over and over. Someone eventually blinks towards the other and sleep -> bypass or come up with some creative way to beat the other wiz. I'd assume in a fight like this, even with a lot of -channeling it would be difficult to build chi being that half the time you are sealed and after seal runs out they are already blinking out of range. Pure dps I do agree though, with enough -channeling demon shouldn't have chi problems. The other major perk that sage has is sage BIDS, which makes it much easier to bypass charms with the increased crit chance. Can't tell you how many people I've fought people that outgear me, and the only way I can kill them is with an ult crit bypass.. which is why sage BIDS is so amazing for 1v1's.

prof

you kill other mages with bids?

god help us all.

mages run from mages?

lol

so far I've only seen 1 person 1v1 properly in this server, unfortunately i don't play the same server as him. sad. ._.

you guys know, if you refined a magic defense belt, you'd tank eachother easier. right? or your rings, that works too. "nonsense! we're mages! what do we need magic defense for?" -> other mages. go figure.

I bet no mage in pwi uses +10 con stones in the gear, either. b:surrender

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

you kill other mages with bids?

god help us all.

mages run from mages?

lol

so far I've only seen 1 person 1v1 properly in this server, unfortunately i don't play the same server as him. sad. ._.

you guys know, if you refined a magic defense belt, you'd tank eachother easier. right? or your rings, that works too. "nonsense! we're mages! what do we need magic defense for?" -> other mages. go figure.

I bet no mage in pwi uses +10 con stones in the gear, either. b:surrender

You'd be surprised what you could learn by actually playing pwi. Being that you haven't played since genies were introduced, you really don't know what its like now. Honestly, you remind me of a 7x offering end game advice..

prof

I've been playing recently and, contrary to what you seem to believe, I see trash with good gear. listening to the tactics you all use.. running? honestly? you run from other mages in a fair, 1v1 fight? come on. if you ask me, you sound like the 7x giving end game advice.

and I laughed at your 'killing with bids' because, lol, I have over 10k mdef unbuffed. i play entirely free on a server where you can't buy everything from the cash shop. in pwi you get stronger gear, that didn't even exist in the time i played, with money. no excuse here. what level are the people you fight? 70? or does nobody in pwi know the value of mdef? b:sweat

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

I've been playing recently and, contrary to what you seem to believe, I see trash with good gear. listening to the tactics you all use.. running? honestly? you run from other mages in a fair, 1v1 fight? come on. if you ask me, you sound like the 7x giving end game advice.

and I laughed at your 'killing with bids' because, lol, I have over 10k mdef unbuffed. i play entirely free on a server where you can't buy everything from the cash shop. in pwi you get stronger gear, that didn't even exist in the time i played, with money. no excuse here. what level are the people you fight? 70? or does nobody in pwi know the value of mdef? b:sweat

Oh so when somebody else got the first hit and is going to kill you before you kill them, you stand there honorably and die? You do that, I'll take a few steps back and start over again when I have a chance at winning.

With all the end game gear available, it is very easy to have more pdef than mdef.. and most mages with cv rings + event cape + decently refined ornaments are going to have at least similar resistances, more than likely have more pdef than mdef. Now even if they were to have less pdef than mdef, that extra 15% chance to crit on BIDS is reason enough to use BIDS over BT.

I've yet to see one post with anything of any substance from you since you've magically returned to the wizard forums.. all you say is everybody sucks at this game which is somewhat ironic because if you followed your own advice you'd be hitting the go to town button before you could even get a skill off.

Pearlwood - Lost City

prof wrote: »

I've been playing recently and, contrary to what you seem to believe, I see trash with good gear. listening to the tactics you all use.. running? honestly? you run from other mages in a fair, 1v1 fight? come on. if you ask me, you sound like the 7x giving end game advice.

and I laughed at your 'killing with bids' because, lol, I have over 10k mdef unbuffed. i play entirely free on a server where you can't buy everything from the cash shop. in pwi you get stronger gear, that didn't even exist in the time i played, with money. no excuse here. what level are the people you fight? 70? or does nobody in pwi know the value of mdef? b:sweat

We know the value of mdef, prof. And, we have alot of it naturally. It's just that wiz v wiz situations are fairly rare and we don't need more mdef for pve. The great majority of pk, at least in my experience, has been against Sins, BMs, and Barbs...who love to ambush wizards. Pdef and HP are more important to gear than extra mdef at this time.

prof

I'm confused. in a fair 1v1 you have to have the first hit, or you'll run away? because they'll 2 shot you or something? I could understand if your gear was maybe +2.. but..

..

I just gotta keep reminding myself this is a pwi forum.

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

I'm confused. in a fair 1v1 you have to have the first hit, or you'll run away? because they'll 2 shot you or something? I could understand if your gear was maybe +2.. but..

..

I just gotta keep reminding myself this is a pwi forum.

Lost cause. You are a lost cause.

prof

and with words you sound like a pitiful excuse of a mage, which, i know you're not. given the videos i've watched, you don't do half the **** you preach on the forums. what's with you? why would you say you're worse than you really are?

desperate to argue with me? b:lipcurl I acknowledged your existence, you can stop now.

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

and with words you sound like a pitiful excuse of a mage, which, i know you're not. given the videos i've watched, you don't do half the **** you preach on the forums. what's with you? why would you say you're worse than you really are?

desperate to argue with me? b:lipcurl I acknowledged your existence, you can stop now.

Well I guess thx for the compliment (I'm guessing that was the overall point you were trying to convey..), but I'm curious what I "preach" that I don't do.

prof

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Well I guess thx for the compliment (I'm guessing that was the overall point you were trying to convey..), but I'm curious what I "preach" that I don't do.

this, for example:

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

I'll take a few steps back and start over again when I have a chance at winning.

you(usually) blink when you're certain you'll die if you don't, not just because you got hit first.

I can only base that on this(after 3:20):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O3pndlNAhE

that's the only other mg video besides haiz's videos i've liked from pwi(after 3:20, of course).

Adroit - Lost City

prof wrote: »

this, for example:



you(usually) blink when you're certain you'll die if you don't, not just because you got hit first.

I can only base that on this(after 3:20):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O3pndlNAhE

that's the only other mg video besides haiz's videos i've liked from pwi(after 3:20, of course).

Mages hit me pretty hard, I only have like 7.5k mdef unbuffed (still using mostly 90 gear), and with jones' blessing, genie skills (like spark or poison/frenzy) it is very easy for another mage to poke me and then bypass my charm (and same goes for me bypassing theirs). I was dueling Ayla a week or two back (+12 8jun with all event/nirvana gear +10 and event gems in everything).. and even with all that gear I could 1-2 shot him just the same as he could 1-2 shot me. Our experiences are probably just different because it sounds like your mage on delphi had good gear, and I'm not as fortunate.

prof

'more fortunate' maybe, probably because myen got the packs, too, just a little later. I also work a lot harder than other f2p, and I was last in a guild(immortals) that owned the entire map. lots of gold to throw around.

I heard they wrecked oracle in utopia.

4 months left of being banned before I can upgrade this gear, and maybe try the new nirvana dungeon. myen just got it. b:sweat I'd like to have the pants, but I doubt I'll have enough gold to transfer refines.

http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=bd9c11a83cd54bb2

I'll make an aeolian and +10 it. only need 3 more champion scrolls. b:shutup

this is for mages:
http://pwcalc.ru/my/?char=7eb9454a74d0ebd0

sorry for responding so late, isp is being **** b:sweat

Smokesalot - Heavens Tear

i got alot of useful tips from your arguments.
thanks.
also r9 kinda made u one shooters anyways so accept it and get a job.

Smokesalot - Heavens Tear

i mean regardless if ur demon or sage wiz

Sun_Burn - Lost City

Smokesalot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

i mean regardless if ur demon or sage wiz

try reading dates of last posts before replying?

kthxbai

Elendria - Dreamweaver

Whoever said you go demon mainly because of the channeling is a moron or just simply haven't taken their time to look into each skill.

Sage wizards yes gain more chi easily and they can use their ultis quite a few more often than demon wizis. But in the age of white teas, that to me is not much of an argument. Sage BIDS is extremly godly so yes that skill is definitely the show off of a sage wizard.

But you all are forgetting the demon skills that get bonus damages that are not only hitting "sometimes" but are added to your base dmg. See Demon Sandstorm (yummy, yummy) and just regular gush. But the foremost main reason is demon stone barrier. The pdef add you get is huge. But of course like Adroit said for her/him it means nothing meaning she/him probably has low base pdef. The higher your base pdef the more yummy the bonus add.

I for one run around with more pdef than any bm on the server because of demon stone barrier.

It's easy there was a statement at the beginning of the thread that was absolutely accurate. To say one is better than the other is a false statement. Both paths have their advantages and disadvantages. It all comes down to your individual game play.

Now in regards to TW:
If you like to be a wizard that runs more in the background and wants to shoot big aoes on a group of people sage is your way to go.

But if you want to be up front in the battle, taking hits in the face while you are up front kiling one after another than you need the def and skills the demon way suplies.

But at the end of the day both cultivations are awesome. So really instead of listening to others you need to do what all of us did. Go to ecotomb, look at what each skill offers you for each cultivation, then make a summary, think about your playstyle and what would benefit you more and then make your choice. Going a certain cultivation because of what someone else told you might end up not making any sence for you personally.

Happy Hunting

Adroit - Lost City

Elendria - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Whoever said you go demon mainly because of the channeling is a moron or just simply haven't taken their time to look into each skill.

Sage wizards yes gain more chi easily and they can use their ultis quite a few more often than demon wizis. But in the age of white teas, that to me is not much of an argument. Sage BIDS is extremly godly so yes that skill is definitely the show off of a sage wizard.

But you all are forgetting the demon skills that get bonus damages that are not only hitting "sometimes" but are added to your base dmg. See Demon Sandstorm (yummy, yummy) and just regular gush. But the foremost main reason is demon stone barrier. The pdef add you get is huge. But of course like Adroit said for her/him it means nothing meaning she/him probably has low base pdef. The higher your base pdef the more yummy the bonus add.

I for one run around with more pdef than any bm on the server because of demon stone barrier.

It's easy there was a statement at the beginning of the thread that was absolutely accurate. To say one is better than the other is a false statement. Both paths have their advantages and disadvantages. It all comes down to your individual game play.

Now in regards to TW:
If you like to be a wizard that runs more in the background and wants to shoot big aoes on a group of people sage is your way to go.

But if you want to be up front in the battle, taking hits in the face while you are up front kiling one after another than you need the def and skills the demon way suplies.

But at the end of the day both cultivations are awesome. So really instead of listening to others you need to do what all of us did. Go to ecotomb, look at what each skill offers you for each cultivation, then make a summary, think about your playstyle and what would benefit you more and then make your choice. Going a certain cultivation because of what someone else told you might end up not making any sence for you personally.

Happy Hunting

The damage increases in gush/sandstorm are essentially null.. sage masteries mean sage gush/sandstorm (as well as every other skill) hit harder than the equivalent demon (although demon does get the extra crit from masteries). I'm glad you love demon stone barrier, but I find it unlikely that you have more pdef than any bm on your server.

I don't care who you are, your job as a wizard is NEVER to sit there any tank in TW. You can go talk to Shinzoko all you want.. he thinks his job as a full r9 +12 (full jades of steady.. everything 4 socket ofc) archer is to stand in the middle of the lane and pretend to be some unkillable pillar. Doesn't work. You make it sound like demon stone barrier gives BILLIONS extra pdef over sage.. and it just doesn't.

MageFizban - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

The damage increases in gush/sandstorm are essentially null.. sage masteries mean sage gush/sandstorm (as well as every other skill) hit harder than the equivalent demon (although demon does get the extra crit from masteries). I'm glad you love demon stone barrier, but I find it unlikely that you have more pdef than any bm on your server.

I don't care who you are, your job as a wizard is NEVER to sit there any tank in TW. You can go talk to Shinzoko all you want.. he thinks his job as a full r9 +12 (full jades of steady.. everything 4 socket ofc) archer is to stand in the middle of the lane and pretend to be some unkillable pillar. Doesn't work. You make it sound like demon stone barrier gives BILLIONS extra pdef over sage.. and it just doesn't.

No. His job is to get chain 100 skilled by our clerics and ignored.

And my soulburn ticks him 3k when he's unbuffed.

Elendria - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

The damage increases in gush/sandstorm are essentially null.. sage masteries mean sage gush/sandstorm (as well as every other skill) hit harder than the equivalent demon (although demon does get the extra crit from masteries). I'm glad you love demon stone barrier, but I find it unlikely that you have more pdef than any bm on your server.

I don't care who you are, your job as a wizard is NEVER to sit there any tank in TW. You can go talk to Shinzoko all you want.. he thinks his job as a full r9 +12 (full jades of steady.. everything 4 socket ofc) archer is to stand in the middle of the lane and pretend to be some unkillable pillar. Doesn't work. You make it sound like demon stone barrier gives BILLIONS extra pdef over sage.. and it just doesn't.

Nah nah, don't get mean here I have buffed around now 18.8k pdef. I talked to some epic geared bms on our server and I do have buffed more pdef than them. If you don't believe me go talk to them. You are obviously not a demon wizard, so question is have you ever had demon stone barrier on your own toon? Do you know how it works in game and not only by your calculations? My guess is no. So to make a statement that others do not have more pdef than certain classes is a little foolish to say the least. I don't make remarks on your skills either.

And see there is a difference in game styles. Because you feel like you have to hide to not get killed while others stay in the front tank 5 people kill them and move on to the next group does that make them a bad wizard? Remember everyone plays their toon differently. To judge someone on their playstyle just because you play it differently is just silly. And of course if I was running around with buffed 8k pdef I would be hiding in the back as well. But with the gear that my wizard has now it takes a lot to kill me.

Like I said to the original poster. Make your own opinion and develop your own game style. If a wizard is telling you how much better sage is than demon or demon better than sage you already know these people have their own way chosen and are ignorants to any other input. So don't listen to them. Make your own choice for you. Remember you will be the one playing your toon later on not them.

b:kiss

Ursa - Dreamweaver

culti choice is one of taste.
For wizards at least both are equally good. There are situations when one shines above the other, but for each +1 for demon, you'll find a +1 for sage. Just the discussion being so old and never ending is the proof of that balance.
I choose sage for the +1s it has, but I've seen an learn to play my wiz from prolly some of the best demon wiz out there. And in the end, some of the DW players considered me being a good to very good wiz. Again, proof of the culti balance.
Read, ask, and choose your culti to fit you and your gameplay. That's all I have to say.

Elendria - Dreamweaver

There finally a great comment!!! Thanks Ursa. That's exactly what it is.

And I agree the battle over which is better is old. Both cultivations are great.

Adroit - Lost City

Elendria - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Nah nah, don't get mean here I have buffed around now 18.8k pdef. I talked to some epic geared bms on our server and I do have buffed more pdef than them. If you don't believe me go talk to them. You are obviously not a demon wizard, so question is have you ever had demon stone barrier on your own toon? Do you know how it works in game and not only by your calculations? My guess is no. So to make a statement that others do not have more pdef than certain classes is a little foolish to say the least. I don't make remarks on your skills either.

And see there is a difference in game styles. Because you feel like you have to hide to not get killed while others stay in the front tank 5 people kill them and move on to the next group does that make them a bad wizard? Remember everyone plays their toon differently. To judge someone on their playstyle just because you play it differently is just silly. And of course if I was running around with buffed 8k pdef I would be hiding in the back as well. But with the gear that my wizard has now it takes a lot to kill me.

Like I said to the original poster. Make your own opinion and develop your own game style. If a wizard is telling you how much better sage is than demon or demon better than sage you already know these people have their own way chosen and are ignorants to any other input. So don't listen to them. Make your own choice for you. Remember you will be the one playing your toon later on not them.

b:kiss

Being that cata barbs with close to 40k hp regularly get killed through turtle in TW.. you're going to have a hell of a time convincing me that you can tank in TW. Gear alone will never be enough to tank people, things like tiger form, solid shield, turtle, anti stun are all skills that allow barbs to do what they do. The extra hp/pdef you have over an average wizard gives you more time to kite, or get back. You'd be far more likely to get an ult off in TW.. because I get one shot by r9 archers with my poo gear. If you do get focused, you likely have enough time to react before you die.. but your job is never to stand there in the front trying to take damage lol.

HardToThink - Lost City

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Being that cata barbs with close to 40k hp regularly get killed through turtle in TW.. you're going to have a hell of a time convincing me that you can tank in TW. Gear alone will never be enough to tank people, things like tiger form, solid shield, turtle, anti stun are all skills that alloy barbs to do what they do. The extra hp/pdef you have over an average wizard gives you more time to kite, or get back. You'd be far more likely to get an ult off in TW.. because I get one shot by r9 archers with my poo gear. If you do get focused, you likely have enough time to react before you die.. but your job is never to stand there in the front trying to take damage lol.

Non sense wiz's were built for cata pulling b:thanks demon earth shield duhhh

MageFizban - Lost City

Yes, long gone are the days of sage wizzies trolling demonn wizzies off the forums. b:pleased