I am going to say my piece and be done...

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know Iamma be killed for this but -

Why would they do that really?

PWE isn't as stupid as you all make them out to be. They're the ones making money off it, and they'll do what they want. Regardless of what the people on the forums here complain about they have a lot more people that don't look here on the forums that are happily playing the game just the way it is. And I bet most of the people that post hatred about recent changes play the game just fine.

I mean, just look. People that don't even play the game anymore still check in the forums. That tells you that they are doing something to keep people here even though they keep crying and shouting about it. You would think that if you are really angered by it, you wouldn't try and help them by telling them whats wrong.

It seems kinda funny that you all think this is actually your game when its not. I mean sure, I would love if they would take all our opinions and such and make them happen but to moan and cry about "lack of care" seems kind of funny when all in all its a previlege not something you're entitled to. They have no one to apologize to for changing their product to their want.

I'm not sure I wrote that all down the way I want but ehh.. I guess its a matter of opinion.

I wonder... lets look at it this way. I believe it is alright to feel a sense of 'entitlement'' when playing this game or posting on the game's forums. Allow me to explain why I think so, and hopefully I can change your mindset on this issue.

Without a doubt, many people here actually do pay to play this game. I'll bet that a number of the people upset by recent... 'going-ons' have also helped fund this game at one point. The logic for this is quite simple: if people were not paying, the company would not be functioning. Now, we don't truly 'own' anything beyond a little bit of electronic data, and of course, that is a fragile ownership at best. More than providing goods, this game is more like a service.

To explain this more, let me provide an analogy of this service. Playing this game is somewhat like paying for the cable on your television. You provide money, and you get an entertainment service. Now, the first rule for any quality entertainment provider is to keep the customers happy. That means, you provide many types of content, and you respond to your customer's in a professional, helpful manner when they run into technical difficulties or have concerns.

Now take this analogy back to the game we all know and love/hate/whatever-the-case-may-be: PWI. PWI is an entertainment service. While paying is optional, to ease certain aspects of the game, many people will probably purchase zhen at one point or another. It is this zhen which keeps the game running, and which allows the PWE company to make a profit. Therefore, it should be in PWI's best interests to keep their customer's happy: to provide many types of content, and to help their customers with professional courtesy and expertise.

Lets go back to our analogy of the cable TV service. Imagine that, one day, the price of paying for cable suddenly jumped up drastically with no warning from the cable company. Or perhaps, there was a sudden, unannounced alteration in the channels provided to you. You had issues with these changes, so you tried to use the company's technical support line to try and talk to somebody about your concerns. However, nobody payed any attention to you. Frustrated, you eventually said a few nasty words to the technical support agent who was not helping you, and in response, you were cut off from using technical support for a period of two weeks. Or, perhaps, you were simply ignored again and again.

I think that this is an appropriate description of what people feel has gone on here. People who have put time, energy, and money into a game which they receive enjoyment from, believe they have been slighted by the company providing the service they have grown to love.

Of course, PWI has no 'real' obligations to us. However, if they want to maintain a happy player base that will continue to support the game for a very long time, it is a necessity to respond to player concerns in a professional, knowledgeable manner. From what I have read, many feel that this is not happening.

So in conclusion, if one has financially helped support this game, it is 100% O.K. to feel a sense of entitlement to certain basic things, like a functioning forum administration. Or bug fixes to common annoyances. These are basic, BASIC things that are essential to keeping customers happy, and as we know, a happy customer is more likely to be a paying customer.


-Azzazin

I daresay that the Mods/GMs/CMs of now were not as friendly as those of the past.I remember the times where they actively helped around in these forums but now it's totally different.Locking threads and banning people are pretty much acceptable IF they were not telling the truth and making up lies.People who went out and told the truth were immediately silenced and the forum now gives me the feeling that it is one of lies and deceit.
They open threads for people to voice their opinion and then leave to do other things.I noticed most of them have not gotten a response from them.We don't even know how matters are like now or do not even know when things are coming.Is it that hard to say that it won't come if it's really not coming instead of saying we're negotiating.What people want isn't hope that it might come.We just want to know if it's coming or not and when if it is.

haha why are you guys even still play this game.Keep Torture yourselfs.Is it because you waisted so much money on a game? that was destroyed by greed of the dev's?*anni packs*Just be strong and unistall.Till then yor weak and the Chinease comunist's are just laughing at you.The whole game was meant to lvl at a grind spot,own a lvling spot,fight for a lvling spot,have fun,farm gears,and so on.Its not like that anymore. good bye.

Altros - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am not a well-known person on the forums, nor in-game. However I have been here through the tough times and the good times. I fell just short of the 2-year vet mark, and have watched the treatment of the players change over time.

From what I know to be true, the PWI community, has a pattern in which the Devs expect us to follow whenever and unfavorable change occurs. That pattern is:

1) Anger and rage.

2) A few people get banned.

3) More and anger and rage for a few months.

4) The community gets over it and moves on.

Granted that each time this occurs, it compounds itself, however chances are that eventually the forums will settle down. This is because all the community will do is rage without taking steps large steps to fix the issue. It is hard to hear a single voice when it is surrounded by a wall of flames. What needs to happen is that the community needs to have a single unified voice, without it degrading to flame.

You know this is what I call "the Gaia Online" effect. and sadly, if it didn't work there it isn't going to work here i.e. people trying to do as you described. Comparing this to that site makes me incredibly sad but tbh this is exact feeling I was getting before I ditched Gaia online due to the swamp of changes to things not broken, random bannings, RIG after RIG (aka packs)....sounds familiar? b:shutup

Tamias - Archosaur wrote: »

You know this is what I call "the Gaia Online" effect. and sadly, if it didn't work there it isn't going to work here i.e. people trying to do as you described. Comparing this to that site makes me incredibly sad but tbh this is exact feeling I was getting before I ditched Gaia online due to the swamp of changes to things not broken, random bannings, RIG after RIG (aka packs)....sounds familiar? b:shutup

you wanna know a secret?

the packs wouldnt keep coming back if no one bought them b:surrender
so who's fault is it that they stayed? b:shutup

I liked the game before and I still like it now. I get to play with my hubby when we have time and that's all there is to it b:chuckle

drjiggle wrote: »

Too much to respond to here all at once, but to the people saying there's no communication problem, I just have to wonder. No communication problem?
And notably, after a week or two of Hyper Stone sales based on the premise that they worked one way when PWE clearly knew that wouldn't continue.

No communication problem. Yeah, right.

You really think that they have to give us a warning to prepare for game changing rules before they implement it not when they do? Idk that would make it kinda boring... it's like giving out the ending of a movie before its released. People like to speculate, and just because they make up a theory doesn't mean the creators are obligated to tell them if they are right or not...

Also, please tell me how you know they knew it wouldn't continue that way.

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You really think that they have to give us a warning to prepare for game changing rules before they implement it not when they do? Idk that would make it kinda boring... it's like giving out the ending of a movie before its released. People like to speculate, and just because they make up a theory doesn't mean the creators are obligated to tell them if they are right or not...

When you buy any product, you expect it to work the way the company told you to. If they made any changes to the product, you expect to be informed, because as a consumer, you want to know what you're paying for.

If I bid for TW, I bid under the assumption that TW will be based on the current rules. I don't bid based on speculated rules or rules that I think will be implemented tomorrow.

It's not a matter of boredom or speculation. It's a matter of good business practise and of integrity.

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

When you buy any product, you expect it to work the way the company told you to. If they made any changes to the product, you expect to be informed, because as a consumer, you want to know what you're paying for.

If I bid for TW, I bid under the assumption that TW will be based on the current rules. I don't bid based on speculated rules or rules that I think will be implemented tomorrow.

It's not a matter of boredom or speculation. It's a matter of good business practise and of integrity.

Unfortunately you did agree to a term that says they can change their rules at any given time, and that is part of what you are paying for so to speak when you agreed to their ToS. So, in the end it is working like the company told you it would.

It sounds really harsh but that's the truth isn't it?b:surrender

I'd like to think of it as the time and money and energy that was spent on developing a character as the reason that I won't complain about what's happening. No matter what they change in the game mechanics, the time I spent playing my characters is the fun. If I switch to another game, the fun begins over again. I do get it though - I would be very upset if they suddenly close down all the servers because I did spend much time and money on this game.

Also, there hasn't been a thread that I have seen that has closed that contained only good solid constructive criticism that has not been posted many times before. I haven't really followed many of the posts that the people that got banned for but I think they sort of had it coming.

And yes, I think you are right, they would want to make this game last as long as they can. It is that fact that makes me wonder if they really are ignoring the community or taken the proper action to make it stay that way.

c2c2 wrote: »

Thinking about my example more closely, you can only take the analogy so far in another aspect. For a cable service, there is not as much lost by switching services. Switching from a game, however, you lose all the time & money & energy spent developing your characters in the first place.

Here's the problem I see. I really enjoy PWI for the most part, even though a lot of the stuff they have done of 'late' has been not quite 'above the belt', so to speak. Compared to other possible games out there, this one is one of a caliber & style which I find appealing. I'll go out on a limb here to say that this holds true for a whole lot of people playing this game.

So when major changes start occurring, it is not like the cable company, where we switch services with few downsides---get new service, use new service, away we go. We'd rather try to fix the problems (as we see them) in the game we already know and have put said time/energy/money into, before resorting to a switching of services. That is why it is particularly frustrating for people to have such difficulty in communicating concerns and getting any legitimate responses from the authorities. Furthermore, people (customers) frustration only heightens when posts or posters are shut down by these authorities: the only individuals who really have a chance at explaining things or helping change things for the better. The average user can suggest something, but it takes a GM or CM to pick up on it, and 'make it happen' so to speak.

The people working for PWI may be quite talented & smart, but if enough changes are made which displease the current set of customers, the outflow of people leaving the game may very well be larger than the inflow of new customers. While you say that PWE may try to 'get as much as it can from this game as it can before it goes downhill', I would tend to disagree; this is their staple game, after all: they are sure to try to keep it going as long as they possibly can. By that logic, they should do more to make sure the current set of customers hang around longer, so that rate of ppl leaving is less than or equal to ppl entering game.

Comments welcomed.

-Azzazin

Your missing a point again about changing services.... Again your under contract...

If you discontinue any services ahead of the contract release date you will have to pay a penalty (at a minimum) Some contracts make you pay off the entire contract and then the penalty. For my cable the penalty will be around $50-100 (guessing not actually looking it up) My cell phone contract on the other hand will be over $200 if I terminate for another plan. That on top of the $120 monthly payment I already pay (I have an international number its expensive) Then if I want to switch to a new plan with the same features I need to buy a new plan with a 2 year contract and no guarantee of getting the new phone for that service which can cost anywhere from $100-$500 depending on the phone... I think this is adding up now.


As for business models... You are right many more people may leave in the short term over the amount they are bringing in... But in the long run many many many more will replace them.


While some of the older players (Pre genie patch people) may not like how this game is going... It is still one of the most popular MMO's to date with a worldwide player base of 50 million (This includes servers on every continent and private servers not just PWI) I really don't think this game is dieng or going to die anytime soon...

I got more but I got some stuff to take care of

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And yes, like how they had to nerf some genie skills after time and testing I don't think programmers originally intended to nerf hypers that way. Just because they don't let us know every single thing that's happening during the testing phase and only tell us after the product is finished doesn't mean we should flame them.

I'm sure they didn't originally intend to change Hyper Stones, but at some point they knew that it had become necessary and that it would happen. My point isn't that someone bought a Hyper Stone and saved it in his stash for 2 months only find out it got changed. There was a sale the week before the change. As in, Tuesday night before maintenance, "Hey, buy these great Hyper Stones! Aren't they awesome? You can activate them as many times as you want!" and then Tuesday night after maintenance, "Oh yeah, that part about unlimited activation wasn't really true. Hope you don't mind."

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The reason why they acted like the way they did is because they have no self control (imo). It is very frustrating to be ignored, but that doesn't mean you should lash out at people who work for you for a free service. If this was a p2p game, it would have died long ago (in fact it did fail as a p2p game). But it is f2p, and whoever pays pays for things that you don't really need to play the game and therefore have no right to complain, especially after knowing that is IS optional, and the company DOES have power to change the rules to their whim and you AGREED to it. For the most part, people that pay for gear and packs fashion etc benefit from most of the changes and are fine with it.

Increasing communication would help, but in the end sometimes ignorance is bliss. Imagine if they did tell you what was upcomming in the next week's or month's patches. Would people rejoice? Probably. My guess is more than half of them will start QQing and flamming about it before it even started. Increased communication isn't the only thing that needs to be changed, its the mindset of the people that post on these forums.

Having the public choose their mods and such would be nice, but most likely be a popularity contest too. They didn't chose the mods for no reason and if they fail they will be replaced. I don't get all this criticizing before we even get to know them. So they deleted lots of posts that shoulda been deleted... so they're doing their job. Let's make them feel bad and call them names before we even get to know them properly as MODS.



I understand why you might call it a scam. It's like releasing the 50 packs sale things a week after they release the single packs. However, it is you that bought them afterall, so just use them. Having them before or after the change doesn't change the fact they boost your exp by tons. It just means it'll take longer to level using them.

You know after reading the past few posts that you have made.... I THINK I LUV YOUb:dirtyb:kiss lol


Way to keep up the intelligent non flaming conversationb:victory

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What I need to do is finishing reading this text for my test today b:angry

What subject be that text?
(o.O)

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

History b:laugh

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

I'm not going to say the people who got banned didn't deserve it. But I see where they come from, and why they act the way they did. And for that reason, I am sympathetic with them. If PWE really wants to stop all this mayhem on the forums, then I think the first step they have to take is to increase communication.

And that's not just conveying any changes to us ASAP. That means reporting progress. That means replying to questions. That means explanations and that means an overall increased presence here on the forums. In conjuction with that, I think involving the community in some of its decisions, such as in the selection process of forum mods, would help foster some positivity too.

But unfortunately, everything I've just said has been suggested before, and of course, ignored as well.

I'm not justifying laziness and selective responses by the forum mod/admin part, but, relating to all of the people going bat **** crazy, demanding answers, and all that, I honestly would not respond either. There is no win scenario for this. Admin posts, they get flamed, they get QQ'd at. Admin doesn't post, they get flamed, they get QQ'd at, and eventually it dies down. In this instance, not answering most post calling them out is a wise idea. This is no reflection of customer service but sensibility.

However, it was quite ironic that in other topics concerning legitimate questions surrounding bug fixes and whatnot, that they'd go out of their way to warn someone about language censors or flaming opposed to answering a pertinent question. Now that is shoddy service. And what do you expect of a F2P?

I know some will disagree (which I honestly don't care for but as a business major and someone who's worked in the MMORPG industry, no less F2P and P2P, I confidently know what I'm talking about) but large scale P2P developed/published games (FFXI, WOW, etc.) have a better model for the basic fundamentals of "service" providing (notably on the publishing side) -- customer service, quality controls, quality assurance, translating to bug fixes (especially timely ones), better content releases, better localization (something PW suffers immensely from as well) and so on. F2P models of this kind have fewer resources, and thus the product outcome is going to be lesser far more often than otherwise. In this case, those who are more nitpicky about game service and will spend some money here and there might be more benefited by a P2P game. Those who want to play for free will certainly have to be content with lesser service than expected from a paying one, given far less resources are committed to service based needs, hence why their catering to cash shoppers is so in-plain-sight. It's a model that's made to gather up a lot of money in a short period, with a very low life MMO expectancy. Hence why they haven't bothered investing **** into better localization or bug fixes. Instead they just make a new game on the same model (FW). Voila.

Edit: Oh, and just for fun, compare the lack of BBB accreditation amongst F2P dev/publishers, versus P2P. Not to mention the disparity in grades. (search for the state of California, and for -- Perfect World, Joymax, Gala-Net, Nexon [F2P], Blizzard, Square-Enix [P2P]).

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Big freaking dot.

The game I come from made weapons and armor disappear forever if you failed at refining. Imagine if, instead of trying your luck with low cost upgrade stones for the first 5 +'s, you're REQUIRED to get dragon orbs or risk losing your item. Imagine them being a lot more expensive, too.

Oh yeah, and fashion that costs as much as real life clothing.



The thing that impresses me about PW the most is that they RESPOND. Even if you don't like their response, they respond. TW income was changed because they felt it was important. Dragon quest NPC price changed because they felt it was important. Even if you hate these, at least it shows they ARE monitoring the economy. And hell, people have complained about, for example, no defense charm to counter the Jones' charm. Then we got the anniversary charm and people spit on it.

this

before tw change sanc was red

tt prices have gone up nicely after 2x trashed them thanks ot the changes

and the more flooded with packs the market becomes the cheaper our F2P gear becomes

You know Rose that I have but most respect on your post/comments/way of thinking.

But your shouting out with a group of peeps that are raging out for the wrong reason.

+1 On Rose post
+1 Janus
+1 Susylu