I am going to say my piece and be done...

Chillum - Dreamweaver

I have to say I had a couple of mixed feelings about the whole Welcome the new mods thread.

One side of me found it highly entertaining watching familiar posters go from inquisitive to mad raving loony nuts in the space of a few posts. It was forum gold where hitting refresh to get the latest chapter on the saga unfold.

Another part of me was a little saddened that the situation has come to this that a fairly innocuous thread welcoming new mods decended into an inquisition of them and PWE as a whole.

To me it was Cliff notes abbrevated version of what is wrong with current attitudes on the forum. Player base are so suspicious of PWE's motives and competency that they analyse everything. In this particular case, I felt it was excessive. Personally, I was quite happy to give them a chance.

I certainly understand why they feel this way. The lack of good will has been brought about by things outwith PWE control e.g. patches; things which sit with PWE but not GM influenced e.g. pack sales; but also of things within their control e.g. Core Connect (did it really need to be rolled out before data synching?)

Don't think all is lost but it won't be easy to fix.

c2c2

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know Iamma be killed for this but -

Why would they do that really?

PWE isn't as stupid as you all make them out to be. They're the ones making money off it, and they'll do what they want. Regardless of what the people on the forums here complain about they have a lot more people that don't look here on the forums that are happily playing the game just the way it is. And I bet most of the people that post hatred about recent changes play the game just fine.

I mean, just look. People that don't even play the game anymore still check in the forums. That tells you that they are doing something to keep people here even though they keep crying and shouting about it. You would think that if you are really angered by it, you wouldn't try and help them by telling them whats wrong.

It seems kinda funny that you all think this is actually your game when its not. I mean sure, I would love if they would take all our opinions and such and make them happen but to moan and cry about "lack of care" seems kind of funny when all in all its a previlege not something you're entitled to. They have no one to apologize to for changing their product to their want.

I'm not sure I wrote that all down the way I want but ehh.. I guess its a matter of opinion.

I wonder... lets look at it this way. I believe it is alright to feel a sense of 'entitlement'' when playing this game or posting on the game's forums. Allow me to explain why I think so, and hopefully I can change your mindset on this issue.

Without a doubt, many people here actually do pay to play this game. I'll bet that a number of the people upset by recent... 'going-ons' have also helped fund this game at one point. The logic for this is quite simple: if people were not paying, the company would not be functioning. Now, we don't truly 'own' anything beyond a little bit of electronic data, and of course, that is a fragile ownership at best. More than providing goods, this game is more like a service.

To explain this more, let me provide an analogy of this service. Playing this game is somewhat like paying for the cable on your television. You provide money, and you get an entertainment service. Now, the first rule for any quality entertainment provider is to keep the customers happy. That means, you provide many types of content, and you respond to your customer's in a professional, helpful manner when they run into technical difficulties or have concerns.

Now take this analogy back to the game we all know and love/hate/whatever-the-case-may-be: PWI. PWI is an entertainment service. While paying is optional, to ease certain aspects of the game, many people will probably purchase zhen at one point or another. It is this zhen which keeps the game running, and which allows the PWE company to make a profit. Therefore, it should be in PWI's best interests to keep their customer's happy: to provide many types of content, and to help their customers with professional courtesy and expertise.

Lets go back to our analogy of the cable TV service. Imagine that, one day, the price of paying for cable suddenly jumped up drastically with no warning from the cable company. Or perhaps, there was a sudden, unannounced alteration in the channels provided to you. You had issues with these changes, so you tried to use the company's technical support line to try and talk to somebody about your concerns. However, nobody payed any attention to you. Frustrated, you eventually said a few nasty words to the technical support agent who was not helping you, and in response, you were cut off from using technical support for a period of two weeks. Or, perhaps, you were simply ignored again and again.

I think that this is an appropriate description of what people feel has gone on here. People who have put time, energy, and money into a game which they receive enjoyment from, believe they have been slighted by the company providing the service they have grown to love.

Of course, PWI has no 'real' obligations to us. However, if they want to maintain a happy player base that will continue to support the game for a very long time, it is a necessity to respond to player concerns in a professional, knowledgeable manner. From what I have read, many feel that this is not happening.

So in conclusion, if one has financially helped support this game, it is 100% O.K. to feel a sense of entitlement to certain basic things, like a functioning forum administration. Or bug fixes to common annoyances. These are basic, BASIC things that are essential to keeping customers happy, and as we know, a happy customer is more likely to be a paying customer.


-Azzazin

LOKl_ - Harshlands

Now with that being said... I will go back to the TOS... or a contract if its the cable company.... It is stated in fine print we do not own any part of the company, and the company itself reserves the right to remove the service as they see fit. My agreeance to the TOS is the same as signing a legal document contractually binding me and the company for that service. If the mods or admins want to suddenly terminate or not give you the answer you so desperately seem to be self entitled to... Well just like the comcast commercial making fun of satelite services...


YOUR UNDER CONTRACT


Ain't nothing you can do about it.






After recent events I have been thinking about putting a new signature up... But I already know it would start a flame fest b:surrender



Would this be in poor taste???


http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy76/Perigrine85/User-Admin-Mod.gif

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear

I daresay that the Mods/GMs/CMs of now were not as friendly as those of the past.I remember the times where they actively helped around in these forums but now it's totally different.Locking threads and banning people are pretty much acceptable IF they were not telling the truth and making up lies.People who went out and told the truth were immediately silenced and the forum now gives me the feeling that it is one of lies and deceit.
They open threads for people to voice their opinion and then leave to do other things.I noticed most of them have not gotten a response from them.We don't even know how matters are like now or do not even know when things are coming.Is it that hard to say that it won't come if it's really not coming instead of saying we're negotiating.What people want isn't hope that it might come.We just want to know if it's coming or not and when if it is.

Susylu - Heavens Tear

c2c2 wrote: »

I wonder... lets look at it this way. I believe it is alright to feel a sense of 'entitlement'' when playing this game or posting on the game's forums. Allow me to explain why I think so, and hopefully I can change your mindset on this issue.

I think that this is an appropriate description of what people feel has gone on here. People who have put time, energy, and money into a game which they receive enjoyment from, believe they have been slighted by the company providing the service they have grown to love.

Of course, PWI has no 'real' obligations to us. However, if they want to maintain a happy player base that will continue to support the game for a very long time, it is a necessity to respond to player concerns in a professional, knowledgeable manner. From what I have read, many feel that this is not happening.

So in conclusion, if one has financially helped support this game, it is 100% O.K. to feel a sense of entitlement to certain basic things, like a functioning forum administration. Or bug fixes to common annoyances. These are basic, BASIC things that are essential to keeping customers happy, and as we know, a happy customer is more likely to be a paying customer.

-Azzazin

What LOKI_ said and also...

Your analogy works except - you really are one customer. If you don't like the way they change the service, you simply have your say and switch companies, and they'll get new paying customers that are perfectly fine with the new policy, perhaps because they can afford it or they simply don't know any better. If a company changes a policy, they do it because it will benefit them... it doesn't matter what their customers say if what they see is profit. If they see a decrease in the cash flow because of what their customers are saying, and no new customers are coming, there is probably no doubt that they would change their policy again (unless they want to close down their company which some might do - sometimes it is smarter to end something fast with as much as you can before it goes downhill).

It is zhen that keeps this game running, and personally I don't see many cash shoppers making flames about recent changes. I don't see too many of them running around the forums either tbh (maybe I don't hang around the forums enough). Forums are only one way of communication - I've personally sent in many tickets and there has yet to be one that hasn't been replied to in a timely manner. Whether or not I was completely satisfied with their answer is another matter, but they did respond.

I'm not saying what they're doing is right, and I absolutely agree when you say that they should provide us with the best service they can give. And I think for the most part, we've been given enough entertainment from the game itself/forum conversations/etc for our money's worth (which happens to be zero for some). You can't expect a certain service to last forever for ten bucks you spent way back when the game first started. When you pay, you pay for a certain service that is here and already implemented (especially in a service like this that doesn't have a time limit/period in the contract), not for service that might or might not be given in the future, although as a customer you would like to think that way.

KageYingZi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I daresay that the Mods/GMs/CMs of now were not as friendly as those of the past.I remember the times where they actively helped around in these forums but now it's totally different.Locking threads and banning people are pretty much acceptable IF they were not telling the truth and making up lies.People who went out and told the truth were immediately silenced and the forum now gives me the feeling that it is one of lies and deceit.
They open threads for people to voice their opinion and then leave to do other things.I noticed most of them have not gotten a response from them.We don't even know how matters are like now or do not even know when things are coming.Is it that hard to say that it won't come if it's really not coming instead of saying we're negotiating.What people want isn't hope that it might come.We just want to know if it's coming or not and when if it is.

I would say they are not as friendly, but then again the forum posters have gotten quite nasty as well. They don't lock threads because they "tell the truth," it's because they tell the truth in the wrong manner (ususally this is the case). It's kinda like a rally - police arrest people who protest not because they are telling the truth and they don't agree, but to maintain order according to law. Lot of flame posts are also redundant.

really, tell any one of those people to quit the game because they hate being ignored. 80% of them won't, because they can still play with the changes but they choose to QQ about it for attention.

And who knows, it probably is kinda hard to tell us when things are coming or not if they don't have a clue themselves or not allowed to.

Kilala - Lost City

haha why are you guys even still play this game.Keep Torture yourselfs.Is it because you waisted so much money on a game? that was destroyed by greed of the dev's?*anni packs*Just be strong and unistall.Till then yor weak and the Chinease comunist's are just laughing at you.The whole game was meant to lvl at a grind spot,own a lvling spot,fight for a lvling spot,have fun,farm gears,and so on.Its not like that anymore. good bye.

LOKl_ - Harshlands

Not that its any of your business how much people spend with there "expendable income"

But so far I have spent $130 on stuff I didn't even need...


My last game... after lvl 120 it was required to spend $6600 USD.... And I wasn't the only one at 150


K THNX BAI!!!!b:bye

Tamias - Archosaur

Altros - Sanctuary wrote: »

I am not a well-known person on the forums, nor in-game. However I have been here through the tough times and the good times. I fell just short of the 2-year vet mark, and have watched the treatment of the players change over time.

From what I know to be true, the PWI community, has a pattern in which the Devs expect us to follow whenever and unfavorable change occurs. That pattern is:

1) Anger and rage.

2) A few people get banned.

3) More and anger and rage for a few months.

4) The community gets over it and moves on.

Granted that each time this occurs, it compounds itself, however chances are that eventually the forums will settle down. This is because all the community will do is rage without taking steps large steps to fix the issue. It is hard to hear a single voice when it is surrounded by a wall of flames. What needs to happen is that the community needs to have a single unified voice, without it degrading to flame.

You know this is what I call "the Gaia Online" effect. and sadly, if it didn't work there it isn't going to work here i.e. people trying to do as you described. Comparing this to that site makes me incredibly sad but tbh this is exact feeling I was getting before I ditched Gaia online due to the swamp of changes to things not broken, random bannings, RIG after RIG (aka packs)....sounds familiar? b:shutup

drjiggle

Too much to respond to here all at once, but to the people saying there's no communication problem, I just have to wonder. No communication problem?

Territory War rules were radically changed several weeks ago, and when were we told about it? After it happened. In the patch notes.

Nirvana and Twilight Temple were significantly changed recently, and when were we told about it? After it happened. In the patch notes.

Hyper Stone activation was significantly changed a few months ago, and when were we told about it? After it happened. In the patch notes. And notably, after a week or two of Hyper Stone sales based on the premise that they worked one way when PWE clearly knew that wouldn't continue.

There are rumors that Territory War rules will be changed again (or perhaps reverted back to the old rules). There is a 135 page thread on the subject, and have we been told what is happening? Not yet. I suspect we'll be told after it happens. In the patch notes.

I think we were warned in advance about the Dragon Quest item price reduction, but have we heard anything since about what is being done about it? Nope.

No communication problem. Yeah, right.

Susylu - Heavens Tear

Tamias - Archosaur wrote: »

You know this is what I call "the Gaia Online" effect. and sadly, if it didn't work there it isn't going to work here i.e. people trying to do as you described. Comparing this to that site makes me incredibly sad but tbh this is exact feeling I was getting before I ditched Gaia online due to the swamp of changes to things not broken, random bannings, RIG after RIG (aka packs)....sounds familiar? b:shutup

you wanna know a secret?

the packs wouldnt keep coming back if no one bought them b:surrender
so who's fault is it that they stayed? b:shutup

I liked the game before and I still like it now. I get to play with my hubby when we have time and that's all there is to it b:chuckle

drjiggle wrote: »

Too much to respond to here all at once, but to the people saying there's no communication problem, I just have to wonder. No communication problem?
And notably, after a week or two of Hyper Stone sales based on the premise that they worked one way when PWE clearly knew that wouldn't continue.

No communication problem. Yeah, right.

You really think that they have to give us a warning to prepare for game changing rules before they implement it not when they do? Idk that would make it kinda boring... it's like giving out the ending of a movie before its released. People like to speculate, and just because they make up a theory doesn't mean the creators are obligated to tell them if they are right or not...

Also, please tell me how you know they knew it wouldn't continue that way.

c2c2

Thinking about my example more closely, you can only take the analogy so far in another aspect. For a cable service, there is not as much lost by switching services. Switching from a game, however, you lose all the time & money & energy spent developing your characters in the first place.

Here's the problem I see. I really enjoy PWI for the most part, even though a lot of the stuff they have done of 'late' has been not quite 'above the belt', so to speak. Compared to other possible games out there, this one is one of a caliber & style which I find appealing. I'll go out on a limb here to say that this holds true for a whole lot of people playing this game.

So when major changes start occurring, it is not like the cable company, where we switch services with few downsides---get new service, use new service, away we go. We'd rather try to fix the problems (as we see them) in the game we already know and have put said time/energy/money into, before resorting to a switching of services. That is why it is particularly frustrating for people to have such difficulty in communicating concerns and getting any legitimate responses from the authorities. Furthermore, people (customers) frustration only heightens when posts or posters are shut down by these authorities: the only individuals who really have a chance at explaining things or helping change things for the better. The average user can suggest something, but it takes a GM or CM to pick up on it, and 'make it happen' so to speak.

The people working for PWI may be quite talented & smart, but if enough changes are made which displease the current set of customers, the outflow of people leaving the game may very well be larger than the inflow of new customers. While you say that PWE may try to 'get as much as it can from this game as it can before it goes downhill', I would tend to disagree; this is their staple game, after all: they are sure to try to keep it going as long as they possibly can. By that logic, they should do more to make sure the current set of customers hang around longer, so that rate of ppl leaving is less than or equal to ppl entering game.

Comments welcomed.

-Azzazin

Asperitas - Lost City

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You really think that they have to give us a warning to prepare for game changing rules before they implement it not when they do? Idk that would make it kinda boring... it's like giving out the ending of a movie before its released. People like to speculate, and just because they make up a theory doesn't mean the creators are obligated to tell them if they are right or not...

When you buy any product, you expect it to work the way the company told you to. If they made any changes to the product, you expect to be informed, because as a consumer, you want to know what you're paying for.

If I bid for TW, I bid under the assumption that TW will be based on the current rules. I don't bid based on speculated rules or rules that I think will be implemented tomorrow.

It's not a matter of boredom or speculation. It's a matter of good business practise and of integrity.

drjiggle

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You really think that they have to give us a warning to prepare for game changing rules before they implement it not when they do? Idk that would make it kinda boring... it's like giving out the ending of a movie before its released. People like to speculate, and just because they make up a theory doesn't mean the creators are obligated to tell them if they are right or not...

Also, please tell me how you know they knew it wouldn't continue that way.

They don't have to, but it would be a positive gesture. It would help build trust instead of making it seem like they're sneaking something past us.

I think the Hyper Stone issue is the best example and, as I've mentioned before, was borderline fraud. If gold prices hadn't been sky high that week, I would have bought quite a few Hyper Stones, and I promise I would have sent an angry ticket demanding a refund. If I go to the store and buy a new high definition plasma TV only to get home and open the box to discover that it's neither high definition nor plasma, you don't think that's a problem?

In the TW situation, people actually bid based on the old rules only to find out their money got "stolen" when refunds were removed. PWE had to scramble and manually send out refunds to deal with the complaints.

In both of these cases, some advance warning would have prevented problems.

I don't even know what your second paragraph means, so I can't really answer.

Unless you're suggesting that PWE doesn't know what's in a patch until after they install it. If that's the case, I guess I still can't really answer. That seems preposterous. They clearly know what changes are planned. Some programmer didn't just wake up Tuesday morning and make a few changes that got rolled out later that evening. These things are planned, scheduled, tested, etc. Either PWE knows or they should know. Either way, the conclusion is the same.

Susylu - Heavens Tear

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

When you buy any product, you expect it to work the way the company told you to. If they made any changes to the product, you expect to be informed, because as a consumer, you want to know what you're paying for.

If I bid for TW, I bid under the assumption that TW will be based on the current rules. I don't bid based on speculated rules or rules that I think will be implemented tomorrow.

It's not a matter of boredom or speculation. It's a matter of good business practise and of integrity.

Unfortunately you did agree to a term that says they can change their rules at any given time, and that is part of what you are paying for so to speak when you agreed to their ToS. So, in the end it is working like the company told you it would.

It sounds really harsh but that's the truth isn't it?b:surrender

I'd like to think of it as the time and money and energy that was spent on developing a character as the reason that I won't complain about what's happening. No matter what they change in the game mechanics, the time I spent playing my characters is the fun. If I switch to another game, the fun begins over again. I do get it though - I would be very upset if they suddenly close down all the servers because I did spend much time and money on this game.

Also, there hasn't been a thread that I have seen that has closed that contained only good solid constructive criticism that has not been posted many times before. I haven't really followed many of the posts that the people that got banned for but I think they sort of had it coming.

And yes, I think you are right, they would want to make this game last as long as they can. It is that fact that makes me wonder if they really are ignoring the community or taken the proper action to make it stay that way.

Susylu - Heavens Tear

drjiggle wrote: »

They don't have to, but it would be a positive gesture. It would help build trust instead of making it seem like they're sneaking something past us.

I think the Hyper Stone issue is the best example and, as I've mentioned before, was borderline fraud. If gold prices hadn't been sky high that week, I would have bought quite a few Hyper Stones, and I promise I would have sent an angry ticket demanding a refund. If I go to the store and buy a new high definition plasma TV only to get home and open the box to discover that it's neither high definition nor plasma, you don't think that's a problem?

In the TW situation, people actually bid based on the old rules only to find out their money got "stolen" when refunds were removed. PWE had to scramble and manually send out refunds to deal with the complaints.

In both of these cases, some advance warning would have prevented problems.

I don't even know what your second paragraph means, so I can't really answer.

Unless you're suggesting that PWE doesn't know what's in a patch until after they install it. If that's the case, I guess I still can't really answer. That seems preposterous. They clearly know what changes are planned. Some programmer didn't just wake up Tuesday morning and make a few changes that got rolled out later that evening. These things are planned, scheduled, tested, etc. Either PWE knows or they should know. Either way, the conclusion is the same.

I'm sorry esl working up there b:laugh

And if that's what happened (I wasn't aware), it seems like they actually did listen to complaints afterall?

And yes, like how they had to nerf some genie skills after time and testing I don't think programmers originally intended to nerf hypers that way. Just because they don't let us know every single thing that's happening during the testing phase and only tell us after the product is finished doesn't mean we should flame them.

Then again how would I know? They could be laughing at me and be complete scammers to the core. I just like to believe in the best of people xD

LOKl_ - Harshlands

c2c2 wrote: »

Thinking about my example more closely, you can only take the analogy so far in another aspect. For a cable service, there is not as much lost by switching services. Switching from a game, however, you lose all the time & money & energy spent developing your characters in the first place.

Here's the problem I see. I really enjoy PWI for the most part, even though a lot of the stuff they have done of 'late' has been not quite 'above the belt', so to speak. Compared to other possible games out there, this one is one of a caliber & style which I find appealing. I'll go out on a limb here to say that this holds true for a whole lot of people playing this game.

So when major changes start occurring, it is not like the cable company, where we switch services with few downsides---get new service, use new service, away we go. We'd rather try to fix the problems (as we see them) in the game we already know and have put said time/energy/money into, before resorting to a switching of services. That is why it is particularly frustrating for people to have such difficulty in communicating concerns and getting any legitimate responses from the authorities. Furthermore, people (customers) frustration only heightens when posts or posters are shut down by these authorities: the only individuals who really have a chance at explaining things or helping change things for the better. The average user can suggest something, but it takes a GM or CM to pick up on it, and 'make it happen' so to speak.

The people working for PWI may be quite talented & smart, but if enough changes are made which displease the current set of customers, the outflow of people leaving the game may very well be larger than the inflow of new customers. While you say that PWE may try to 'get as much as it can from this game as it can before it goes downhill', I would tend to disagree; this is their staple game, after all: they are sure to try to keep it going as long as they possibly can. By that logic, they should do more to make sure the current set of customers hang around longer, so that rate of ppl leaving is less than or equal to ppl entering game.

Comments welcomed.

-Azzazin

Your missing a point again about changing services.... Again your under contract...

If you discontinue any services ahead of the contract release date you will have to pay a penalty (at a minimum) Some contracts make you pay off the entire contract and then the penalty. For my cable the penalty will be around $50-100 (guessing not actually looking it up) My cell phone contract on the other hand will be over $200 if I terminate for another plan. That on top of the $120 monthly payment I already pay (I have an international number its expensive) Then if I want to switch to a new plan with the same features I need to buy a new plan with a 2 year contract and no guarantee of getting the new phone for that service which can cost anywhere from $100-$500 depending on the phone... I think this is adding up now.


As for business models... You are right many more people may leave in the short term over the amount they are bringing in... But in the long run many many many more will replace them.


While some of the older players (Pre genie patch people) may not like how this game is going... It is still one of the most popular MMO's to date with a worldwide player base of 50 million (This includes servers on every continent and private servers not just PWI) I really don't think this game is dieng or going to die anytime soon...

I got more but I got some stuff to take care of

Asperitas - Lost City

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Unfortunately you did agree to a term that says they can change their rules at any given time, and that is part of what you are paying for so to speak when you agreed to their ToS. So, in the end it is working like the company told you it would.

It sounds really harsh but that's the truth isn't it?b:surrender

I'd like to think of it as the time and money and energy that was spent on developing a character as the reason that I won't complain about what's happening. No matter what they change in the game mechanics, the time I spent playing my characters is the fun. If I switch to another game, the fun begins over again. I do get it though - I would be very upset if they suddenly close down all the servers because I did spend much time and money on this game.

Also, there hasn't been a thread that I have seen that has closed that contained only good solid constructive criticism that has not been posted many times before. I haven't really followed many of the posts that the people that got banned for but I think they sort of had it coming.

And yes, I think you are right, they would want to make this game last as long as they can. It is that fact that makes me wonder if they really are ignoring the community or taken the proper action to make it stay that way.

I'm not going to say the people who got banned didn't deserve it. But I see where they come from, and why they act the way they did. And for that reason, I am sympathetic with them. If PWE really wants to stop all this mayhem on the forums, then I think the first step they have to take is to increase communication.

And that's not just conveying any changes to us ASAP. That means reporting progress. That means replying to questions. That means explanations and that means an overall increased presence here on the forums. In conjuction with that, I think involving the community in some of its decisions, such as in the selection process of forum mods, would help foster some positivity too.

But unfortunately, everything I've just said has been suggested before, and of course, ignored as well.

drjiggle

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

And yes, like how they had to nerf some genie skills after time and testing I don't think programmers originally intended to nerf hypers that way. Just because they don't let us know every single thing that's happening during the testing phase and only tell us after the product is finished doesn't mean we should flame them.

I'm sure they didn't originally intend to change Hyper Stones, but at some point they knew that it had become necessary and that it would happen. My point isn't that someone bought a Hyper Stone and saved it in his stash for 2 months only find out it got changed. There was a sale the week before the change. As in, Tuesday night before maintenance, "Hey, buy these great Hyper Stones! Aren't they awesome? You can activate them as many times as you want!" and then Tuesday night after maintenance, "Oh yeah, that part about unlimited activation wasn't really true. Hope you don't mind."

Susylu - Heavens Tear

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

I'm not going to say the people who got banned didn't deserve it. But I see where they come from, and why they act the way they did. And for that reason, I am sympathetic with them. If PWE really wants to stop all this mayhem on the forums, then I think the first step they have to take is to increase communication.

And that's not just conveying any changes to us ASAP. That means reporting progress. That means replying to questions. That means explanations and that means an overall increased presence here on the forums. In conjuction with that, I think involving the community in some of its decisions, such as in the selection process of forum mods, would help foster some positivity too.

But unfortunately, everything I've just said has been suggested before, and of course, ignored as well.

The reason why they acted like the way they did is because they have no self control (imo). It is very frustrating to be ignored, but that doesn't mean you should lash out at people who work for you for a free service. If this was a p2p game, it would have died long ago (in fact it did fail as a p2p game). But it is f2p, and whoever pays pays for things that you don't really need to play the game and therefore have no right to complain, especially after knowing that is IS optional, and the company DOES have power to change the rules to their whim and you AGREED to it. For the most part, people that pay for gear and packs fashion etc benefit from most of the changes and are fine with it.

Increasing communication would help, but in the end sometimes ignorance is bliss. Imagine if they did tell you what was upcomming in the next week's or month's patches. Would people rejoice? Probably. My guess is more than half of them will start QQing and flamming about it before it even started. Increased communication isn't the only thing that needs to be changed, its the mindset of the people that post on these forums.

Having the public choose their mods and such would be nice, but most likely be a popularity contest too. They didn't chose the mods for no reason and if they fail they will be replaced. I don't get all this criticizing before we even get to know them. So they deleted lots of posts that shoulda been deleted... so they're doing their job. Let's make them feel bad and call them names before we even get to know them properly as MODS.

drjiggle wrote: »

I'm sure they didn't originally intend to change Hyper Stones, but at some point they knew that it had become necessary and that it would happen. My point isn't that someone bought a Hyper Stone and saved it in his stash for 2 months only find out it got changed. There was a sale the week before the change. As in, Tuesday night before maintenance, "Hey, buy these great Hyper Stones! Aren't they awesome? You can activate them as many times as you want!" and then Tuesday night after maintenance, "Oh yeah, that part about unlimited activation wasn't really true. Hope you don't mind."

I understand why you might call it a scam. It's like releasing the 50 packs sale things a week after they release the single packs. However, it is you that bought them afterall, so just use them. Having them before or after the change doesn't change the fact they boost your exp by tons. It just means it'll take longer to level using them.

LOKl_ - Harshlands

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The reason why they acted like the way they did is because they have no self control (imo). It is very frustrating to be ignored, but that doesn't mean you should lash out at people who work for you for a free service. If this was a p2p game, it would have died long ago (in fact it did fail as a p2p game). But it is f2p, and whoever pays pays for things that you don't really need to play the game and therefore have no right to complain, especially after knowing that is IS optional, and the company DOES have power to change the rules to their whim and you AGREED to it. For the most part, people that pay for gear and packs fashion etc benefit from most of the changes and are fine with it.

Increasing communication would help, but in the end sometimes ignorance is bliss. Imagine if they did tell you what was upcomming in the next week's or month's patches. Would people rejoice? Probably. My guess is more than half of them will start QQing and flamming about it before it even started. Increased communication isn't the only thing that needs to be changed, its the mindset of the people that post on these forums.

Having the public choose their mods and such would be nice, but most likely be a popularity contest too. They didn't chose the mods for no reason and if they fail they will be replaced. I don't get all this criticizing before we even get to know them. So they deleted lots of posts that shoulda been deleted... so they're doing their job. Let's make them feel bad and call them names before we even get to know them properly as MODS.



I understand why you might call it a scam. It's like releasing the 50 packs sale things a week after they release the single packs. However, it is you that bought them afterall, so just use them. Having them before or after the change doesn't change the fact they boost your exp by tons. It just means it'll take longer to level using them.

You know after reading the past few posts that you have made.... I THINK I LUV YOUb:dirtyb:kiss lol


Way to keep up the intelligent non flaming conversationb:victory

Susylu - Heavens Tear

LOKl_ - Harshlands wrote: »

You know after reading the past few posts that you have made.... I THINK I LUV YOU lol


Way to keep up the intelligent non flaming conversation

I love my Teny only b:dirty

To be honest I feel like a hyprocrite since most I've said has been voiced by others on the forums before and I criticized flammers for posting the same thing multiple times... but I guess if the same arguments come up the same explanations will be given.

That in itself is kind of depressing, that we're still having the same conversation about the same issues in the same manner since a while back b:surrender But I'm not going to point my fingers at the company or the players blamming either of them.

What I need to do is finishing reading this text for my test today b:angry

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What I need to do is finishing reading this text for my test today b:angry

What subject be that text?
(o.O)

Susylu - Heavens Tear

MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »

What subject be that text?
(o.O)

History b:laugh

MagicHamsta - Lost City

Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »

History b:laugh

LOKl_ - Harshlands

Definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over expecting different results. My entire guild came here from another game where we all had maxed toons and many had invested thousands of dollars... Exact amounts would make many people on this game choke if I gave out figures... I find it funny that the standard small amount we spend here isn't even required but others (long time pwi players) complain almost nonstop about the cost... This constant complaining has almost made me sick to the point I wish I could just post a link to the cash shop for that other game and was required to lvl up and collect the gear... To know that to go from 120-150 cost an average of over $6500 usd. I actually played to the point where I couldn't afford to repair my own armor lol (it cost money to do so or buy from players at 10kk coins per 1 repair and I still had 6 pieces to repair after that)


I really don't want to see or hear anyone complain about spending to much in a game until they exceed $300,000 in a year ( I never did but one of my guildies far exceeded that)


All these people who got banned... I am still not even fully understanding what cause they were fighting for.... But eh w/e

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »

I'm not going to say the people who got banned didn't deserve it. But I see where they come from, and why they act the way they did. And for that reason, I am sympathetic with them. If PWE really wants to stop all this mayhem on the forums, then I think the first step they have to take is to increase communication.

And that's not just conveying any changes to us ASAP. That means reporting progress. That means replying to questions. That means explanations and that means an overall increased presence here on the forums. In conjuction with that, I think involving the community in some of its decisions, such as in the selection process of forum mods, would help foster some positivity too.

But unfortunately, everything I've just said has been suggested before, and of course, ignored as well.

I'm not justifying laziness and selective responses by the forum mod/admin part, but, relating to all of the people going bat **** crazy, demanding answers, and all that, I honestly would not respond either. There is no win scenario for this. Admin posts, they get flamed, they get QQ'd at. Admin doesn't post, they get flamed, they get QQ'd at, and eventually it dies down. In this instance, not answering most post calling them out is a wise idea. This is no reflection of customer service but sensibility.

However, it was quite ironic that in other topics concerning legitimate questions surrounding bug fixes and whatnot, that they'd go out of their way to warn someone about language censors or flaming opposed to answering a pertinent question. Now that is shoddy service. And what do you expect of a F2P?

I know some will disagree (which I honestly don't care for but as a business major and someone who's worked in the MMORPG industry, no less F2P and P2P, I confidently know what I'm talking about) but large scale P2P developed/published games (FFXI, WOW, etc.) have a better model for the basic fundamentals of "service" providing (notably on the publishing side) -- customer service, quality controls, quality assurance, translating to bug fixes (especially timely ones), better content releases, better localization (something PW suffers immensely from as well) and so on. F2P models of this kind have fewer resources, and thus the product outcome is going to be lesser far more often than otherwise. In this case, those who are more nitpicky about game service and will spend some money here and there might be more benefited by a P2P game. Those who want to play for free will certainly have to be content with lesser service than expected from a paying one, given far less resources are committed to service based needs, hence why their catering to cash shoppers is so in-plain-sight. It's a model that's made to gather up a lot of money in a short period, with a very low life MMO expectancy. Hence why they haven't bothered investing **** into better localization or bug fixes. Instead they just make a new game on the same model (FW). Voila.

Edit: Oh, and just for fun, compare the lack of BBB accreditation amongst F2P dev/publishers, versus P2P. Not to mention the disparity in grades. (search for the state of California, and for -- Perfect World, Joymax, Gala-Net, Nexon [F2P], Blizzard, Square-Enix [P2P]).

Longknife - Harshlands

LOKl_ - Harshlands wrote: »

My entire guild came here from another game where we all had maxed toons and many had invested thousands of dollars... Exact amounts would make many people on this game choke if I gave out figures... I find it funny that the standard small amount we spend here isn't even required but others (long time pwi players) complain almost nonstop about the cost... This constant complaining has almost made me sick to the point I wish I could just post a link to the cash shop for that other game and was required to lvl up and collect the gear... To know that to go from 120-150 cost an average of over $6500 usd. I actually played to the point where I couldn't afford to repair my own armor lol (it cost money to do so or buy from players at 10kk coins per 1 repair and I still had 6 pieces to repair after that)

Big freaking dot.

The game I come from made weapons and armor disappear forever if you failed at refining. Imagine if, instead of trying your luck with low cost upgrade stones for the first 5 +'s, you're REQUIRED to get dragon orbs or risk losing your item. Imagine them being a lot more expensive, too.

Oh yeah, and fashion that costs as much as real life clothing.



The thing that impresses me about PW the most is that they RESPOND. Even if you don't like their response, they respond. TW income was changed because they felt it was important. Dragon quest NPC price changed because they felt it was important. Even if you hate these, at least it shows they ARE monitoring the economy. And hell, people have complained about, for example, no defense charm to counter the Jones' charm. Then we got the anniversary charm and people spit on it.

Joshcja - Sanctuary

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

Big freaking dot.

The game I come from made weapons and armor disappear forever if you failed at refining. Imagine if, instead of trying your luck with low cost upgrade stones for the first 5 +'s, you're REQUIRED to get dragon orbs or risk losing your item. Imagine them being a lot more expensive, too.

Oh yeah, and fashion that costs as much as real life clothing.



The thing that impresses me about PW the most is that they RESPOND. Even if you don't like their response, they respond. TW income was changed because they felt it was important. Dragon quest NPC price changed because they felt it was important. Even if you hate these, at least it shows they ARE monitoring the economy. And hell, people have complained about, for example, no defense charm to counter the Jones' charm. Then we got the anniversary charm and people spit on it.

this

before tw change sanc was red

tt prices have gone up nicely after 2x trashed them thanks ot the changes

and the more flooded with packs the market becomes the cheaper our F2P gear becomes

RedsRose - Lost City

Longknife - Harshlands wrote: »

The thing that impresses me about PW the most is that they RESPOND. Even if you don't like their response, they respond. TW income was changed because they felt it was important. Dragon quest NPC price changed because they felt it was important. Even if you hate these, at least it shows they ARE monitoring the economy. And hell, people have complained about, for example, no defense charm to counter the Jones' charm. Then we got the anniversary charm and people spit on it.

All of the changes came from the issues the CN Version was having, not here. They had no choice. TW changes were made literally when they upgraded the servers causing a 100% reset (they did compensate with coins to the land holding factions on all the servers), the DQ prices were changed bc of the epic gold farming, the Jone's Blessing is ONLY here and was to be the "reward" to make up for the DQ price change, the Anni Blessing was more of a rage issue because it is only 90 days and does not combat the op'ness of the Jones Blessing (which people are now used to and addicted too).

I just wanted to point that out...they also said that they did not agree with the DQ changes for this version....b:surrender

Nelae - Heavens Tear

You know Rose that I have but most respect on your post/comments/way of thinking.

But your shouting out with a group of peeps that are raging out for the wrong reason.

+1 On Rose post
+1 Janus
+1 Susylu