I am going to say my piece and be done...
Comments
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Starflair - Dreamweaver wrote: »Uh..it's just a forum..wow.
How about playing the actual game instead? Oh..but y'all will ragequit that because the "unfair" and "non-existent" GMs that deliver this game 100% free to play are nuking your dq items or selling packs every week.
No one ever seems to appreciate what we have: a great game. For free.
I can do without the ragequitting crybabies. More server space for me...someone who plays the game...and appreciates it.
To address your points:
It is unfortunate but most of the time there will always be more negative than positive feedback. People are more vocal when they are unhappy. I'm sure there are plenty of happy people right now; they just aren't singing praises to the game because there's nothing to talk about.
This isn't much of a crybaby thread. There were plenty of them earlier but they are moved. I'd rather people have the ability to post complaints on a forum, than to have a crowd that agrees 100% all the time. Everyone's allowed to have their opinions. This one is pretty civil so I'd choose another to criticise.
I'm glad you still enjoy the game. A lot of people here enjoy the forums for the forums' sake though, and that's more what they're talking about.0 -
Starflair - Dreamweaver wrote: »I understand that. I just don't see how this forum is such a disaster. I see topics discussed in the proper forum, and they are moved accordingly if not.
There's a plethora of information easily accessable to all members. The mods seem responsive to most matters. It serves the community well. Don't you think you're being a bit picky (considering all of your forum experiences here and elsewhere)?
I will say this nicely...even if you are a "lurker"...
Your posts = 69
My posts = over 10k
I think I know when the forums are in a disaster state. Sorry, but being frank here...This has nothing to do with the info here or the game itself...[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
To be honest I've lurked around these forums for a long time and have never posted on them at all that I can recall...I have even quit the game for a year ago and have recently came back but during the time i started playing to the time I've come back here I've always enjoyed reading the forums. In the beginning it was either finding posts from Spoons (no i will not incite another "what happened to him" or a "he was the best" rememberance. I have read that thread and agree with the comments made but I believe we should let that dog lie and remember what we do of him.) Or Hamsta do his trolling/helpful post back then.
However, now when I come back I not only see changes in game I also pick up on those from the forum. All of the mods I have known from a year ago left and have been replaced. Same with the GMs it seems. Those who say that you are just QQing about the forums don't quite understand why these are loved I think. To me i enjoyed these forums for a laugh, sure there were trolls but hey they were few and also did it for the lol-factor. But now everything has gone to hell and for one I'm appalled. I'll continue playing the game (until another may whisk me away from it) but to me if the forums die then PWI will have lost something that made it alive to me. Alive not because of stories but because of a feeling that there really is a community within the game that wishes to be helpful and enjoy the fun.
And Reds I believe you have posted well and if you are banned for posting a peaceful response then they are making a mistake they will most likely regret. Hope your words are heard along with the words of the other serious members.
~from a no-name lurker who wished to speak
Ryo0 -
Lurkers can be well-informed too b:chuckle b:avoid0
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Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »Lurkers can be well-informed too b:chuckle b:avoid
I know that but the point is that this post is about the forums and not the game itself.
The forums and the PWI Wiki STILL have amazing access to information. Maybe the post was read wrong by the one poster, but this is about the forums.
There are many who do not play the game anymore and yet are here. This just shows how great of a community we have.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I know that but the point is that this post is about the forums and not the game itself.
The forums and the PWI Wiki STILL have amazing access to information. Maybe the post was read wrong by the one poster, but this is about the forums.
There are many who do not play the game anymore and yet are here. This just shows how great of a community we have.
Yeah, I got what you were saying
. And I'm guilty of being extremely inactive in-game while frequenting the forums much more. 0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I cannot answer that. That is their way of maybe showing they think there is a problem.
That is not what MY post is about. Mine is about these forums. The rest is their posts, not mine.
theres honestly nothing wrong with these forums. ive been on many forums in my life as ive been lurking the internet since the age of 13 (im nearly 21 now) and just from experience this forum is handled pretty decently compared to many other forums.
people just want to be pampered without realizing that the GMs have a job to fulfill. that job comes before the forums. this is why the issue out Mods. but the players have a obvious problem with the current Mods despite NEVER giving them even he slightest chance. the members of these forums tore them a new hole despite the fact that the Mods like grim did nothing wrong what so ever.
so again, if u want to put blame some where blame the members of these forums.0 -
Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yeah, I got what you were saying. And I'm guilty of being extremely inactive in-game while frequenting the forums much more.
As are many...proof how much the community means to each other, even if it is over the internet.
There are good people here, trolls and alts included.Psychosiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »theres honestly nothing wrong with these forums. ive been on many forums in my life as ive been lurking the internet since the age of 13 (im nearly 21 now) and just from experience this forum is handled pretty decently compared to many other forums.
people just want to be pampered without realizing that the GMs have a job to fulfill. that job comes before the forums. this is why the issue out Mods. but the players have a obvious problem with the current Mods despite NEVER giving them even he slightest chance. the members of these forums tore them a new hole despite the fact that the Mods like grim did nothing wrong what so ever.
so again, if u want to put blame some where blame the members of these forums.
No, sorry I politely disagree. This is not the first time this has happened on these forums and imo both of these "incidences" were preventable, in more ways then one. And tbh I think the Mod situation could have been handled differently. It was more in the lying and trying to fake us out that I think sparked MUCh of the issues that are now happening.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
in spoons i trust0
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RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I will say this nicely...even if you are a "lurker"...
Your posts = 69
My posts = over 10k
I think I know when the forums are in a disaster state. Sorry, but being frank here...This has nothing to do with the info here or the game itself...
I don't really consider myself a "lurker" since i've recently become a more active forum member. After all, I've been "lurking" these forums for almost as long as you've been posting (you only have a couple of months ahead of me ). Aside from that (and i knew tjthat would be an issue) I think I have as much a say in your arguement as anyone else.
So yeah, I'm over the game aspect of things. Let's talk forums.
It's a game forum, but this topic is not about the game.
A forum is for sharing and discussing information, but this topic is not about the info here.
So this is about the moderators from what I can gather. But I already mentioned what I thought about their job (fine with me). And like I said, I haven't "participated" as much as you, but I've used the resources provided for over a year, so I think I know well enough.0 -
Psychosiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »theres honestly nothing wrong with these forums. ive been on many forums in my life as ive been lurking the internet since the age of 13 (im nearly 21 now) and just from experience this forum is handled pretty decently compared to many other forums.
people just want to be pampered without realizing that the GMs have a job to fulfill. that job comes before the forums. this is why the issue out Mods. but the players have a obvious problem with the current Mods despite NEVER giving them even he slightest chance. the members of these forums tore them a new hole despite the fact that the Mods like grim did nothing wrong what so ever.
so again, if u want to put blame some where blame the members of these forums.
It's been pretty apparent though that there's not much communication between the playerbase, mods and GMs. The forum should form a link between the admins and the playerbase, but this one hasn't. Concerns voiced here are said to be "told to the higher ups", but we rarely see the results or hear anything after that.
So when the mod issue was also announced out of the blue and there was another cover-up scenario things sorta exploded. But at the core, there needs to be more communication.0 -
Starflair - Dreamweaver wrote: »I don't really consider myself a "lurker" since i've recently become a more active forum member. After all, I've been "lurking" these forums for almost as long as you've been posting (you only have a couple of months ahead of me ). Aside from that (and i knew tjthat would be an issue) I think I have as much a say in your arguement as anyone else.
So yeah, I'm over the game aspect of things. Let's talk forums.
It's a game forum, but this topic is not about the game.
A forum is for sharing and discussing information, but this topic is not about the info here.
So this is about the moderators from what I can gather. But I already mentioned what I thought about their job (fine with me). And like I said, I haven't "participated" as much as you, but I've used the resources provided for over a year, so I think I know well enough.
I have already stated that the resources are sound. This is a community voice thread for many and I already stated the original intention was to privately PM frankie with this.
It is to voice my opinion and that of others to whom may agree with me. There is noting inherently wrong with the forums in terms of resources and the like, but there is something wrong with the way it is and has been ran. That is the jist of this post. I do not expect all to agree with me on everything that I have stated, but I wanted to make it clear that this is not about the game itself but about these forums and this community. [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's been pretty apparent though that there's not much communication between the playerbase, mods and GMs. The forum should form a link between the admins and the playerbase, but this one hasn't. Concerns voiced here are said to be "told to the higher ups", but we rarely see the results or hear anything after that.
So when the mod issue was also announced out of the blue and there was another cover-up scenario things sorta exploded. But at the core, there needs to be more communication.
as far as ive seen the GMs do know our concerns. theres been many stickies about our concerns and all the GMs can do is relay those concerns to "the higher ups". at that point the GMs are in the same boat as us. if they dont hear from the devs then theres nothing any of us, including the gms, can do about it.
so yes, the communication between playerbase and GM is stable as it can be. idk what else you want them to do really.0 -
Psychosiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »so yes, the communication between playerbase and GM is stable as it can be. idk what else you want them to do really.
IMO, it really is not sound. There is much to be desired. We all know that cannot "fix" things with many of the issues but they can help in keep the community informed or even show some care. The care shown in these forums is much less then in some of the other ones I can assure you. Just what I see but I respect your point of view.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Psychosiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »so yes, the communication between playerbase and GM is stable as it can be. idk what else you want them to do really.
they want them to tell us everything they know and risk being fired from their jobs just so they can all feel better b:laugh
b:surrender[SIGPIC]http://i53.tinypic.com/k9ymnq.gif[/SIGPIC]
♥♥♥ Teny0 -
Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »they want them to tell us everything they know and risk being fired from their jobs just so they can all feel better b:laugh
b:surrender
I disagree again, they just want to be updated and that is often lax and too little too late. The community often gives up and it causes some of the ranting and postings later seen.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I have already stated that the resources are sound. This is a community voice thread for many and I already stated the original intention was to privately PM frankie with this.
It is to voice my opinion and that of others to whom may agree with me. There is noting inherently wrong with the forums in terms of resources and the like, but there is something wrong with the way it is and has been ran. That is the jist of this post. I do not expect all to agree with me on everything that I have stated, but I wanted to make it clear that this is not about the game itself but about these forums and this community.
Well y'know what? I think I got worked up over nothing. I apologize, I didn't want to waste anyones time, I thought I made a valid arguement (I read your post 3 times!). Anyway, good luck to you, and hopefully things can change in your favor.0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I disagree again, they just want to be updated and that is often lax and too little too late. The community often gives up and it causes some of the ranting and postings later seen.
I agree with you Reds, I do understand the want to be informed.
However I would like to say that if they had the means of doing so without compromising their jobs/situtation, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they would have if given the opportunity.[SIGPIC]http://i53.tinypic.com/k9ymnq.gif[/SIGPIC]
♥♥♥ Teny0 -
Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »I agree with you Reds, I do understand the want to be informed.
However I would like to say that if they had the means of doing so without compromising their jobs/situtation, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they would have if given the opportunity.
thats how i feel about it as well. i notice this in ALL MMOs i play. there is not one exception. people will always blame the GMs for withholding information that they cannot reveal. and in the the community of x MMO will start to gain hate towars the GM/flame them/say they dont care about the community.
its pretty lame that the player base does this to the GMs without realizing what the GMs can and CANT do.
but in order to realize that i guess you will have to actually become a GM yourself and experience it. then you will understand why the GMs do what they do.0 -
Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »I agree with you Reds, I do understand the want to be informed.
However I would like to say that if they had the means of doing so without compromising their jobs/situtation, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they would have if given the opportunity.
I know how you feel, I have given MANY benefit of the doubts on many things.
Starflair - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well y'know what? I think I got worked up over nothing. I apologize, I didn't want to waste anyones time, I thought I made a valid arguement (I read your post 3 times!). Anyway, good luck to you, and hopefully things can change in your favor.
It is about the community not me. And posting a valid argument that you believe in is never a waste of time. It is you opinion, no one is faulting you for that. You have yours and I have mine.Psychosiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »thats how i feel about it as well. i notice this in ALL MMOs i play. there is not one exception. people will always blame the GMs for withholding information that they cannot reveal. and in the the community of x MMO will start to gain hate towars the GM/flame them/say they dont care about the community.
its pretty lame that the player base does this to the GMs without realizing what the GMs can and CANT do.
but in order to realize that i guess you will have to actually become a GM yourself and experience it. then you will understand why the GMs do what they do.
People have and always will blame the GM's for many things, and many of us have stated that and have supported them in what they cannot control. However, on the same note, there is much that they can control. I agree blaming the GM's for many things is not fair, however it is still their jobs to get to know the community and keep them as well informed as they can. I see some lack in that more recently then it was in the past.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
RoidAbuse is awesome, only he would sell his sperm for gear!!
"Toughest monster? ..... RedsRose b:surrender" - Kantorek
Where is my 1 v 1 Kan? b:mischievous0 -
Susylu - Heavens Tear wrote: »I agree with you Reds, I do understand the want to be informed.
However I would like to say that if they had the means of doing so without compromising their jobs/situtation, I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they would have if given the opportunity.
I think there could be a little more though; saying something like "I cannot disclose this information due to company policy" would be honest, straightforward, and allow the playerbase to know that at least they are listening, even if they cannot reply fully. That would be nice.0 -
RedsRose - Lost City wrote: »I know how you feel, I have given MANY benefit of the doubts on many things.
I just thinks it's not really fair for either side.
At least we all get to rant and kick and bite them on the forums. Imagine how they would feel being bickered at and screamed at without being able to write any of their own opinions down to their own will. b:surrender They can close the thread and what not but being unable to express their own opinions before doing so would probably give them a headache or two a day.
I guess you can blame them for being less interactive than they use to be. Then again it was the forum people that started to create this hostile atmosphere in reaction to things that are happening, not them. Maybe they're fed up with having to babysit crybabies all the time. b:laughRillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think there could be a little more though; saying something like "I cannot disclose this information due to company policy" would be honest, straightforward, and allow the playerbase to know that at least they are listening, even if they cannot reply fully. That would be nice.
would be nice but we all know the commotion that will come with that response...[SIGPIC]http://i53.tinypic.com/k9ymnq.gif[/SIGPIC]
♥♥♥ Teny0 -
Psychosiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »thats how i feel about it as well. i notice this in ALL MMOs i play. there is not one exception. people will always blame the GMs for withholding information that they cannot reveal. and in the the community of x MMO will start to gain hate towars the GM/flame them/say they dont care about the community.
its pretty lame that the player base does this to the GMs without realizing what the GMs can and CANT do.
but in order to realize that i guess you will have to actually become a GM yourself and experience it. then you will understand why the GMs do what they do.
Letting the community know that the topic at hand can't be discussed is one thing. Keeping silent completely is another. Many players have asked valid questions that go completely unanswered.
A great example would be the Official TW Fake Bidding Rules thread. Players asked for Kantorek to be a little bit more specific with the TW rules. What did he do? Tried to be a smartass and called players asking for clarification "nit pickers" and most likely to abuse the TW system. If I saw that kind of attitude in most mmos I've played I would have quit mmos a long time ago.
Another thing is that the GMs create threads such as "An Early GM Response to the TW System Changes" and they leave a couple replies and then after that never bother to take a look at the thread again because they cant be assed to answer more questions.
Many incidents involving the GMs/Mods play into this rage fest.0 -
I understand GMs are just doing a job and i'm certainly against making it personal against any of them, but i think there are many things they won't do. Yes, they may be taking orders from upstairs, but that they haven't managed to impress upon management the importance some issues have for the playerbase remains their collective failure. I'm not saying they should be risking their jobs for us but they can certainly write a memo stating keeping the comunity better informed would be in the company's best interest. Right now we've got the Facebook thing going on i think in a manner that seems more like a marketing scheme than a joint effort with the comunity. As Warren posted elsewhere very few of us will begrudge the company making a profit, as we do understand they're trying to run a bussiness. I have learned to live with packs however much i may dislike them, i understand their numbers tell them this is something that sells. But i would like to know whatever happened to making it up to us for nerfed DQ drops and all that takes is writing a post. It makes what may very well be legitimate bussiness calls appear as deception and dishonesty.
Bottom line is trust and attention to many of the small things they could in fact do to improve our gaming experience. This is entertainment for us, it's suposed to be fun. I don't expect anything really, it would be naive. As i expressed on one the many threads that have recently been made i expect no change, a few more people may be banned from the forums and in general terms we can all expect nothing more than some form of benign neglect.
Unfortunately anyone who expects to continue playing should do so with resignation. I'm only here until my new gamne gets released and then i'll be gone for sure. I may not even try FW as i was planning to however, i've really tired of f2ps.0 -
Red why arnt you a Mod Again?
!~ Da Sheets0 -
Another thing is that the GMs create threads such as "An Early GM Response to the TW System Changes" and they leave a couple replies and then after that never bother to take a look at the thread again because they cant be assed to answer more questions.
that thread is 135 pages long. what do you expect them to do? would you read all 135 pages of that thread and answer evering single question in there? or would you pick the MAIN issues and address thos? the latter is exactly what they are doing. they are only human and cant possible handle all questions asked by players while, handle ingame problems, maintain and handle the game itself, and manage events all at the same time.
there are limits and you people really need to respect those limits. they are not Gods and see everything that the players have concerns with. especially with a limited staff. all they can do is address the main concerns of players.0 -
Rillien - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think there could be a little more though; saying something like "I cannot disclose this information due to company policy" would be honest, straightforward, and allow the playerbase to know that at least they are listening, even if they cannot reply fully. That would be nice.
The problem with this is, its company policy to always side with the company. So the CMs are kinda forbidden from siding with the players against the company on issues, or making any statement that could even infer that kind of dissent. I believe that was why spoons may have suddenly vanished.0 -
Jennalicious - Sanctuary wrote: »Not to mock you or anything Red, but, as I am sure you are already aware, ever since Spoons left, the community's voice has always been ignored. All we are to PWE are dollar signs. What we want is irrelevant.
well i think that ary did the best she could when she was mod here...and true.. but if PWE was smart (there not tho) they should get a idea what there public thinks..since in the end its the public whom they serve..
!~ Sheets0 -
Psychosiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »that thread is 135 pages long. what do you expect them to do? would you read all 135 pages of that thread and answer evering single question in there? or would you pick the MAIN issues and address thos? the latter is exactly what they are doing. they are only human and cant possible handle all questions asked by players while, handle ingame problems, maintain and handle the game itself, and manage events all at the same time.
there are limits and you people really need to respect those limits. they are not Gods and see everything that the players have concerns with. especially with a limited staff. all they can do is address the main concerns of players.
I've kept close watch on that thread and basically everyone wanted the rules to have better wording. They were to vague and given the situation at the time, everyone wanted to tread carefully so they didn't end up being banned. None of the GMs ever gave a proper response to that, instead it was unstickied and the GMs tried to sweep it under the carpet.
Kantorek even knew what the confusion was about because he updated the OP, but for some unknown reason he decided to go down the path of stupidity and incite more confusion and frustration with his response.0 -
DrSheets - Sanctuary wrote: »well i think that ary did the best she could when she was mod here...and true.. but if PWE was smart (there not tho) they should get a idea what there public thinks..since in the end its the public whom they serve..
!~ Sheets
maybe that's what they're doing?
again, forums only account for a small population of players. i'm pretty sure they monitor the game itself and its revenue and see what's happening.
I don't think it's correct to be calling pwe stupid - they are, afterall, the ones with a company that's releasing many new games and making money.
all companies serve their customers, but no, in the end its usually themselves they serve first[SIGPIC]http://i53.tinypic.com/k9ymnq.gif[/SIGPIC]
♥♥♥ Teny0
![http://i53.tinypic.com/k9ymnq.gif[/SIGPIC]](http://i53.tinypic.com/k9ymnq.gif[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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