DQ Drops NPC-Price Dropped 20%
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Asheera - Raging Tide wrote: »lolol I'm tired of hearing this.
Even increasing 20% of dq price won't result in a significant inflation in prices, if even noticeable. It used to be the source of coin but not anymore. Now things like Best Tokens of Luck (and 10 million big note exchange of course) and TW pays are far far far more influencing the market than DQ drops.
About TW just think of how many hundreds of millions are created in the market every week.
Yep. Each week, big faction will get a few hundred millions, and not to mention the bounty hunter at 100 occasionally gets 2 million coins instantly. Imagine how many players that do bounty...
And... the token of best luck.. instant 5 million there... And people doing cubes...
Compare that with the tiny amount of drops from dq....0 -
populationcontrol wrote: »Really PWE, thats low. Youre just trying to force more people to buy zen/gold/cashshop. I think you need to respect your players, and your "donators" (/sarcasm). We're not cows to be milked.
Look at it: the poll speaks for itself.
Personally, I buy gold. I used to buy more, now I buy half of what I used to: you're losing money. And if this kinda of disrespect continues, I won't buy any more. Then the next step would be to stop playing altogether.
This game is Free to Play. The CS is suppose to "enhance" your playing experience, not to make it the playing experience itself.
I'm gonna encourage all my friends to come here and vote no.
95 Archer.
I stopped cash-shopping 9 months ago...
I play this game less and less, and now... mostly just browsing forums, trying to see if I can somehow chip into this and helps to turn this game around... *sigh* b:surrender0 -
im gonna be really brave and say -> I DONT CAREb:shockedTheEmpire
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I vote for this thread to be a sticky!!b:chuckle0
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Lulz, 93% of the poll is in favor of the negatory answer. I would stake that that means that it's roughly 60-75% of the actual game's members (not just forumers) feel the same way.
Here's hoping that the devs take notice to this outcry, and not implement this horrible idea.We have two ears and one tongue so that we would listen more and talk less. - Diogenes
It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. - Pierre Beaumarchais
You cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason themselves into. - Unknown0 -
Nexdonum - Lost City wrote: »Lulz, 93% of the poll is in favor of the negatory answer. I would stake that that means that it's roughly 60-75% of the actual game's members (not just forumers) feel the same way.
Here's hoping that the devs take notice to this outcry, and not implement this horrible idea.
You mean that 488 accounts out of tens of thousands are against this idea. That is the only evidence we have. I would say PW is paying attention, based on the numbers shown.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
IceJazmin - Heavens Tear wrote: »You mean that 488 accounts out of tens of thousands are against this idea. That is the only evidence we have. I would say PW is paying attention, based on the numbers shown.
Paying attention to the fact that they intentionally screwed the economy to get more people playing / charging . . . and are now **** the majority of the player-base in order to pretend to fix it?
My vote is this :
Restore DQ NPC rates in exchange for the fact that we will NEVER have an increased drop-rate event again.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thanks for the sig Ophida
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Thats what people said about the many Packs that came out, and we all know what happened with that...Egaenil - Heavens Tear wrote: »b:cute chill guys, im sure gm wont go thru the changes else 80% of the sever will rage
just a quick thought... with less DQ does that means there will be less coins going around.... aka gold price will go down a bit b:chuckle[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
A good moderator should:
- Have the computer skills necessary to handle forum-related tasks (Web skills, basic programming)
- Be patient to handle all sorts of requests
- Be level-headed to keep discussions and some petty squabbles in check.b:cool0 -
This is coming from PW-CN... where a friend of mine plays.. She's told me.. that server is full of bots... cant grind.. cause botters in all the spots... all over...
Its quite possible, the dev's are trying to curb the "gold/coin-farmer bots" on PW_CN by lowering the price of the DQs.
Take a look at the "anti-bot" pop-up quiz that has been triggering on the new server. That is one of their methods of dealing with this... Does it work? I dunno... Most likely not that effectively.
A loooooong time ago... well before PWI was born... one of the fastest ways to earn coin in the game was to get a werefox (veno), fully expand the inventory.. go out.. and tame mobs. Then.. once your inventory was full.. you npc the eggs. You could get 2,000-9,000 an egg. What this meant was.. there was hundreds of little bot werefoxes running around, taming mobs... And.. yes.. it was fun killing them.... or KSing them... for a while...
That is why, pet eggs.. now only npc for one coin... And oh my... there was an outrage... But.. you know what... people kept playing the game.. they started to figure out how to earn coin/gold elsewhere. They cried over nothing... and.. all but maybe a few old timers to the game will remember that fact.
As for fixing the economy in the game... lowering the price of the DQ would work.. IF the amount of gold(coin) earned by all players is more than the amount of gold/coin earned by the Guild Masters/Leaders (pwi has weird names for things btw).. which.. I doubt it is.
This game does need more gold/coin sinks... One good friend of mine, had suggested a while back, that one way to fix, would be to put a "lucky box/pack" similar to one in the cash shop that is buyable with in-game coin/gold. Of course, that box would have to have useful things.. with a very low chance of getting something reallllllly good... and of course.. there should be a limit to the number of times a day.. a person could purchase said box from NPC.
One of the major problems as to why the cost of Gold in the AH is so much... it comes from the non-cash/low$-cash shoppers (low$-cash shoppers being the ones that buy Zen, and sell for coin on occasion), that are trying to make their earnings by using the AH-Gold Trade as a stock market. Buy Low - Sell High.. just means the next person to try that will have to Buy High - Sell Higher... and the person after that.. Buy Higher - Sell Even Higher.. and so on.. and so on... And then one day.. it will be just like PW-MY where.. you cannot buy Gold in the AH.. and people just world shout it.. for 1.2m-1.5m each.b:shocked It sucks.
Prices fluctuate with supply and demand.. and the person with the supply's greed. Really has nothing to do with the devs.
This game - along with all the "free-to-play" games out there.. are designed for people to use the cash shop.. that is why they are in business. They arent designed and in business just for making people happy and giving free entertainment. If you dont wish to use the cash shop.. you arent forced to.. Just might slow down the game play for you....
And.. yes.. I do buy Zen... I also use it for myself.. and only myself.. I dont sell to other people.. When I need coin in the game.. I farm things.. HH, npc my DQ etc..and.. often.. I buy Gold in the AH with my farmed coin... and support those selling their Zen because, either they are lazy to farm to earn coin, need coin fast, or are free gamers that are hurting the game's economy by buying Gold Even Higher and selling Gold At Outrageous prices.
And yes.. I also know.. that by reducing the "grind for coin" players' income.. my shops.. will suffer somewhat.. BUT.. I hope.. that the AH/Stockmarket type players will... also keep that in mind.. and also reduce their prices.0 -
This is coming from PW-CN... where a friend of mine plays.. She's told me.. that server is full of bots... cant grind.. cause botters in all the spots... all over...
Its quite possible, the dev's are trying to curb the "gold/coin-farmer bots" on PW_CN by lowering the price of the DQs.
Take a look at the "anti-bot" pop-up quiz that has been triggering on the new server. That is one of their methods of dealing with this... Does it work? I dunno... Most likely not that effectively.
A loooooong time ago... well before PWI was born... one of the fastest ways to earn coin in the game was to get a werefox (veno), fully expand the inventory.. go out.. and tame mobs. Then.. once your inventory was full.. you npc the eggs. You could get 2,000-9,000 an egg. What this meant was.. there was hundreds of little bot werefoxes running around, taming mobs... And.. yes.. it was fun killing them.... or KSing them... for a while...
That is why, pet eggs.. now only npc for one coin... And oh my... there was an outrage... But.. you know what... people kept playing the game.. they started to figure out how to earn coin/gold elsewhere. They cried over nothing... and.. all but maybe a few old timers to the game will remember that fact.
As for fixing the economy in the game... lowering the price of the DQ would work.. IF the amount of gold(coin) earned by all players is more than the amount of gold/coin earned by the Guild Masters/Leaders (pwi has weird names for things btw).. which.. I doubt it is.
This game does need more gold/coin sinks... One good friend of mine, had suggested a while back, that one way to fix, would be to put a "lucky box/pack" similar to one in the cash shop that is buyable with in-game coin/gold. Of course, that box would have to have useful things.. with a very low chance of getting something reallllllly good... and of course.. there should be a limit to the number of times a day.. a person could purchase said box from NPC.
One of the major problems as to why the cost of Gold in the AH is so much... it comes from the non-cash/low$-cash shoppers (low$-cash shoppers being the ones that buy Zen, and sell for coin on occasion), that are trying to make their earnings by using the AH-Gold Trade as a stock market. Buy Low - Sell High.. just means the next person to try that will have to Buy High - Sell Higher... and the person after that.. Buy Higher - Sell Even Higher.. and so on.. and so on... And then one day.. it will be just like PW-MY where.. you cannot buy Gold in the AH.. and people just world shout it.. for 1.2m-1.5m each.b:shocked It sucks.
Prices fluctuate with supply and demand.. and the person with the supply's greed. Really has nothing to do with the devs.
This game - along with all the "free-to-play" games out there.. are designed for people to use the cash shop.. that is why they are in business. They arent designed and in business just for making people happy and giving free entertainment. If you dont wish to use the cash shop.. you arent forced to.. Just might slow down the game play for you....
And.. yes.. I do buy Zen... I also use it for myself.. and only myself.. I dont sell to other people.. When I need coin in the game.. I farm things.. HH, npc my DQ etc..and.. often.. I buy Gold in the AH with my farmed coin... and support those selling their Zen because, either they are lazy to farm to earn coin, need coin fast, or are free gamers that are hurting the game's economy by buying Gold Even Higher and selling Gold At Outrageous prices.
And yes.. I also know.. that by reducing the "grind for coin" players' income.. my shops.. will suffer somewhat.. BUT.. I hope.. that the AH/Stockmarket type players will... also keep that in mind.. and also reduce their prices.
I have a conspiracy theory here... b:chuckle
No one audit the gold market.
PWI benefits from high coin prices, cos people will tend to charge zen than grinding if gold is high. That's why they come with Token of Best luck, and other rewards that injects coins to the market.
However..... it's very easy for PWI to inflate things, they just dump coins to the gold auction. All they need is just type the number with their keyboard, and keep bidding the gold prices high. They have the water mark, say.. 300k, if it goes below that, they have their "bots" automagically puts a bid above that... with coins coming out of no where...
Again.. no one audits ...
What's preventing them from doing so? Remember, low gold price = bad income for PWE.
Just like the US gov that has the printing press that keeps printing money out of thin air... b:laughb:chuckle0 -
terrible idea, there has to be a better way to deal with bots than **** the little guy out of his repair fee and coins for his skills.0
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Pwi a free game is been a joke on this days.
Was fun game when start but now is the law of who have more rl money!
Job pwi in finish a perfect world!!!
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This patch, No money to be made from grinding
Double drops, No money to be made from running TT.
I just don't see how anyone is to be expected to get even halfway decent gear and money to afford even the most basic of things with these changes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
This implementation was completely uncalled for on the Developer's side. DQ items are the main source of income for anyone who grinds out their cash. Next thing you know, the devs will set a limit on what price you can sell mats at in a catshop while setting a minimum on the price of gold.
*looks at poll*
Yeah, this will now be a test for the developers, will they actually listen to the players and kill the idea, or will they disregard it and push the idea forward; changing the modo from "free to play, pay to win" to "free to play, pay to survive.""No matter how dark the world is,
light shall exist somewhere,
even if only a small sliver,
a light found among darkness,
shines all the brighter." -unknown0 -
Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »No they don't.
Coin is just a representation of value. We're forced to use it because cat shops and AH are set up to allow trades using only coin. If nobody obtained new coin, all that would happen is that prices for player-to-player transactions would reflect the ever-decreasing amount of coin in the economy. We'd have slow deflation as coin got used up to buy skills, pay for repairs, for lunar squad mode, etc. But player-to-player trades create value without consuming coin (aside from AH fees).
The economy works better if we have slow inflation, meaning more coin is produced than removed via the coin sinks. But it's not necessary. If all coin were removed from the game, people would still make player-to-player trades. They'd just resort to a bartering system.
PWI's economy is a weird hybrid of real world economics and game economics. Because managing a real economy is hard, most games use a purely source/sink model. Coin is created by killing stuff for loot, then destroyed by buying stuff from NPCs. The real world economy doesn't work like that. Individuals don't create nor destroy money, it just circulates. (The government can create or destroy money, but if they're responsible, they try to to keep the money supply proportional to the size of the economy. When they don't, you get stuff like what happened to the German Mark after WWI, and what's happening in Greece right now.) PWI is a combination of the two. It has sources and sinks, and it has the best player-economy I've encountered in an MMORPG. So while producing coin via grinding does affect the economy, it is not necessary.
The big problem I see with this change is that combined with the mirage decompose nerf, instances have pretty much become a waste of time. I liked doing instances. You couldn't fly or run away and lose aggro if you got in trouble. You had to stand and fight or die, so it was very important to plan ahead, pay attention, and optimize your tactics. Now there's almost no point. You'll make more coin per hour grinding than doing an instance. Roughly half the game (the important half for me) has been relegated to a vehicle for doing BH (which everyone wines) and a once per character's life FB.
I agree on most you say - however, there ARE huge pits that empty the money of the game - You mention a few yourself, and i'll mention some too:
AH fees, repairs (big one), pots, decompose fees, sharding fees, other equipment, teleports, etc etc etc. In short there are countless ways to use money at NPC's, where the money will disappear from the game. However, this is NOT the main problem.
The main problem is the fact that there are 2 main ways of getting coin into the system:
- TW
- Drops (useless gear, coins, useless items, DQ) where DQ makes up about 90%
If DQ drops too low in NPC price, the second cathegory will be almost irrelevant and insufficient compared to what goes out each day. However, coin will still be here - just only at the hands of the TW guilds, who will then virtually control the economy. THAT is the problem, NOT that we decrease the income from drops.PWI will continue - in one way or the other. I'm just glad I found a balanced server now that I enjoy - naming is illegal, but PM's are welcome.
Only reason I log in still is also just to say hi to friends.
[SIGPIC]http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=3036252001&dateline=1291402639[/SIGPIC]0 -
I agree on most you say - however, there ARE huge pits that empty the money of the game - You mention a few yourself, and i'll mention some too:
AH fees, repairs (big one), pots, decompose fees, sharding fees, other equipment, teleports, etc etc etc. In short there are countless ways to use money at NPC's, where the money will disappear from the game. However, this is NOT the main problem.
The main problem is the fact that there are 2 main ways of getting coin into the system:
- TW
- Drops (useless gear, coins, useless items, DQ) where DQ makes up about 90%
If DQ drops too low in NPC price, the second cathegory will be almost irrelevant and insufficient compared to what goes out each day. However, coin will still be here - just only at the hands of the TW guilds, who will then virtually control the economy. THAT is the problem, NOT that we decrease the income from drops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew
You honestly think that DQ items are putting too much into the economy? You are aware that for ever 2 best luck tokens 10mil is put into the economy right?
And TW pay? Are you serious? I'm in a TW guild and 90% of my pay goes towards buying a charm for the next weeks TWs. Which means the ones selling the chams, the cash shoppers, are the ones getting the coins.
Money sinks are terrible and ineffective. How much do you think gets spent in a day with all the money sinks? And how much do you think gets injected into the economy by best luck tokens?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"My understanding of women only goes as far as the pleasure. When it comes to the pain, I'm like any other bloke - I don't want to know."0 -
I'm auditing it, as are others like me, actually.ValenaHaiko - Heavens Tear wrote: »However..... it's very easy for PWI to inflate things, they just dump coins to the gold auction. All they need is just type the number with their keyboard, and keep bidding the gold prices high. They have the water mark, say.. 300k, if it goes below that, they have their "bots" automagically puts a bid above that... with coins coming out of no where...
Again.. no one audits ...
What's preventing them from doing so? Remember, low gold price = bad income for PWE.
I buy hundreds of Gold per day, and I know who my competitors are and I can see when they're re-stocking and doing the same thing. We're buying huge amounts of Gold every day, and we're seeing the goods that are being purchased with that Gold appearing in each others cat-shops.
So there's no need for silly conspiracy theories. The demand of players to buy the stuff that we're selling is far more than enough to keep Gold prices high.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
PWI Merchanting Guides: warrenwolfy.wordpress.com0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »I'm auditing it, as are others like me, actually.
I buy hundreds of Gold per day, and I know who my competitors are and I can see when they're re-stocking and doing the same thing. We're buying huge amounts of Gold every day, and we're seeing the goods that are being purchased with that Gold appearing in each others cat-shops.
So there's no need for silly conspiracy theories. The demand of players to buy the stuff that we're selling is far more than enough to keep Gold prices high.
Logical explanations are not welcomed on the forums, you should know better....
The forums are the place were you make claims that there is no way to prove, such the person saying that 60-70% of PW players are against this 20% reduction based on 488 accounts out of tens of thousands that play the game answering a poll.
So please fix your post to include wild generalizations and obviously incorrect information.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
WarrenWolfy - Sanctuary wrote: »I'm auditing it, as are others like me, actually.
I buy hundreds of Gold per day, and I know who my competitors are and I can see when they're re-stocking and doing the same thing. We're buying huge amounts of Gold every day, and we're seeing the goods that are being purchased with that Gold appearing in each others cat-shops.
So there's no need for silly conspiracy theories. The demand of players to buy the stuff that we're selling is far more than enough to keep Gold prices high. QQ
I'll edit it for him....see now people might understand that irrational statement.Retired
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Mik_scorpius - Heavens Tear wrote: »I agree on most you say - however, there ARE huge pits that empty the money of the game - You mention a few yourself, and i'll mention some too:
AH fees, repairs (big one), pots, decompose fees, sharding fees, other equipment, teleports, etc etc etc. In short there are countless ways to use money at NPC's, where the money will disappear from the game. However, this is NOT the main problem.
The main problem is the fact that there are 2 main ways of getting coin into the system:
- TW
- Drops (useless gear, coins, useless items, DQ) where DQ makes up about 90%
If DQ drops too low in NPC price, the second cathegory will be almost irrelevant and insufficient compared to what goes out each day. However, coin will still be here - just only at the hands of the TW guilds, who will then virtually control the economy. THAT is the problem, NOT that we decrease the income from drops.
Ok I know very little about TW, but I do know what I see. I have seen where the return from owning a land is 180 million. Divide that by a possible (not probable) 200 players in a faction and that is a big chunk of change.
Now I can speak from experience and say that I know a few people who are in TW factions and they are always BROKE! Which says that either the officers of the faction are keeping the biggest majority of the income, or they just simply aren't getting paid.
Even if the faction leaders spent 10 mil bidding on a territory (which they don't) that is still 170 mil to split between all of the members who participate. Either way you slice that, its a lot. And that is where all the money is coming from. I have played this one character for almost a year. Buying 10.00 here and 50.00 there in gold with real money. I have roughly 40 mil which I have worked very hard for. Yet I see people out there wanting to buy a scroll of tome for 100 mil, and 500 tiger packs for 425k. Where in the holy heck did these ppl get that kind of coinage? I have worked my rear end off for a year and don't have money like that. I'll tell u where, its from the cash shop. Their beloved gold selling.
If pwi wants to stop the inflation issues, take the auction house gold trade totally out. Make it to where you can only SELL items from the boutique, not the gold. That would change a lot in this game.Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOxY_nHdew
You honestly think that DQ items are putting too much into the economy? You are aware that for ever 2 best luck tokens 10mil is put into the economy right?
And TW pay? Are you serious? I'm in a TW guild and 90% of my pay goes towards buying a charm for the next weeks TWs. Which means the ones selling the chams, the cash shoppers, are the ones getting the coins.
Money sinks are terrible and ineffective. How much do you think gets spent in a day with all the money sinks? And how much do you think gets injected into the economy by best luck tokens?
If you are in a TW faction and 90% of your pay goes toward your next tw charms then you are either getting ripped off by the faction payout or you must like not having much money. I would not ever go to a job and make just enough pay to get by at the next day of work.0 -
42 pages and no GM response... Getting pretty pathetic. Anyone feel like PMing a GM so they will respond in this thread? They made it the main thread for all of DQ-price talk, but won't respond.0
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You've already made grinding obsolete for 90% of PWI player. Do you want ot drive another 5% to the instance only mentality.
I understand making the game friendly for peoepl who rather not grind at all. But what is wiht this all out assalt against grinding.
I think the DQ items should stay the same and actually i woudl love if they raise the rate of equipment drops. 99% of the equip drops are **** but nothing makes me hoppier than getting a regular drop with some kick azz extra stats.0 -
Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »42 pages and no GM response... Getting pretty pathetic. Anyone feel like PMing a GM so they will respond in this thread? They made it the main thread for all of DQ-price talk, but won't respond.
The GMs made this the official thread for players to post.
The GMs already answered while back that they will tell the devs that some players are a bit unhappy. There is nothing for GMs to add to this thread short of the usual
"we are working on it" or "we are forwarding your concerns to the devs".
If you really want answers, I would suggest you submitt a ticket, than you will get a reply, although I am sure it will be in one of the above flavours. Based on previous experience.Too often we loose sight of life's simple pleasures. Remember, when someone annoys you, it takes 42 muscles in your face to frown, BUT, it only takes 4 muscles to extend your arm and slap that mother#$@%#^! upside the head.0 -
Tremblewith - Heavens Tear wrote: »42 pages and no GM response... Getting pretty pathetic. Anyone feel like PMing a GM so they will respond in this thread? They made it the main thread for all of DQ-price talk, but won't respond.
No point in having a GM respond as they have no say in the matter, afaik. They may still be discussing it with the devs anyways, or the devs may have bigger things to worry about right now and haven't gotten back to them (assuming they've said something by now.)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Evict is a sexy chalupa.
retired, etc0 -
GM response will only encourage more flames towards them; besides what would they say?
Until they get an update from PWE, we won't be hearing anything.
I don't recommend holding your breath.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I understand guys
I'm just extremely upset with the way PWE is handling PWI atm. Tickets don't work at all by the way. I've sent 2 tickets in the last month saying the exact same thing (About Bugs and such not being fixed). I've got 0 responses in my e-mail inbox, and I check daily. What PWI needs to do is simply listen to their customers - not the people who are getting rich from PWI's profits; but the actual customers of PWI... The people who make this game what it is. They have listened maybe once or twice in the past for various things, but overall don't.
They need to listen to us - we are what make PWI what it is, and I personally firmly believe that we know how to run and manage a online MMO better than they do. If they listened to the players, the game would be what it was 10 months ago.0 -
Wow is all I got to say about this stupid possible nerf. It's like they don't care about the players anymore! This was my primary income when I was playing next to collecting nectar. Congrats to PWE for giving me another reason not to play again! Cya b:bye0
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I don't think PWE is entirely responsible for the things wrong with PWI. The changes made here are coming directly from China, aren't they? I don't think PWE is even allowed to significantly alter the game without approval (assuming they can alter it at all, other than making the updates from the Chinese version compatible with this version.) It seems like a lot of things are out of their control. Maybe I'm wrong, though.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Evict is a sexy chalupa.
retired, etc0 -
Slarti - Dreamweaver wrote: »If I have to spend RL money just to do normal activities like questing it gets less fun, this is the reason I don't play P2P games. This change will not cause people like me to spend more money, it will simply cause us to play less, buy less fancy wings and fashion, or quit entirely for a game that costs the same...
Except, everything you could ever want and need, is availble in a p2p game, without any extra expense. Its completely failsafe system, if the economy changes and in game currency goes up its not game breaking, as the best stuff is earned via participation in the game, not by having a lot more real money and/or in game money.
True fact, f2p model is simply a short term cashcow for the dev's, there are NO longterm initiatives, leech the player base as hard and as fast as they caen, then onto the next project. see forsaken world and battle of immortals.I have no use for signatures... hypocrisy aside xD0 -
500+ UNhappy players and counting!0
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