Let's be classist! :D

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

Well I don't use charms since they are to expensive and like you I use event pots (when I hit 75) / apoth pots.

But I don't understand why Barbs QQ about their charms ticking when cleric's spend a lot more money on Pots or charms and they never complain about their charms ticking or using up a ton of MP pots doing a FC, TT, BH, etc.

I think they should just deal with the charm ticking.

Me too and if a barb gets gobby or anyone else does i make sure they have a good few ticks just for good measure.

Karma's a *BLEEP*! Part 1



Cleric: The tank is my priority. So if you get aggro, you'd better be able to save yourself. b:pleased

*Four minutes later, after Cleric grabs heal aggro on multiple mobs*

Cleric: Someone help! b:cry

FatherTed - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Someone asks if a veno has a herc before adding them, Ted walks away from the party.

Well, it used to be a veno's job to farm a herc by the time they were 8x-ish. It wasn't all that difficult before the game kinda changed.

Amaliee - Archosaur wrote: »

Ticking Yee-Old HP Charms

Barb: *about to go up against boss* I'm charmed, make sure I don't tick, cleric!

Cleric: *has MP charm, must waste many ticks to make sure that the barb's clearly more important charm doesn't tick at all*

About that... The tank is going to incur costs from using pots and from repairs from taking damage, as a cleric with a charm, your charm will tick because you use a constant supply of MP... a HP charm is quite different... it's kind of sad that needs to be explained. >.>

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

This is why barbs shouldn't QQ about there chams ticking, because MP charms tick a lot faster so they get used up more quickly than HP ones and both chams cost the same, and yet you don't see any cleric QQ about their charms ticking. That's what HP charms are used for, they are suppose to tick to save your live and you don't like your charm ticking don't buy on at all. It's more cheaper making pots anyway. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Logic fail. Your job is to keep my HP charm from ticking as it's my job to keep your HP charm from ticking or you from dying. It's kind of a trade-off.

A cleric complaining about their MP charm ticking is just stupid. Of course it's going to tick, you bought it for the luxury of not having to pot as much or so you can afk macro heal.

Trying to equate your MP charm ticking to a tank's HP charm ticking is futile.

Rawrgh - Raging Tide wrote: »

I'd perfer it not to tick as much as possible. Now if it's a situation where it can't be helped then I'll understand of course, charms are gonna tick a few times always, like when I do ape in 2-3, with an HP pool of 12.5k fully buffed and a boss hitting for 5k, of course it's going to tick a couple of times. But when it's a situation where I know it can be helped then that's pretty bad.

A HP charm is there to protect you from dying. A cleric's job is to protect you from dying.

Therefore a cleric who allows a charm to tick too much = fail.

And if I think a cleric is ticking my charm on purpose, I'll let them heal aggro a few mobs. Oops, cleric dead.

b:chuckle

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

A HP charm is there to protect you from dying. A cleric's job is to protect you from dying.

Therefore a cleric who allows a charm to tick too much = fail.

And if I think a cleric is ticking my charm on purpose, I'll let them heal aggro a few mobs. Oops, cleric dead.

b:chuckle

Failed logic there.

A clerics job is to make sure your HP doesnt reach 0. Its not their job to make sure your HP doesnt reach 50%.

You might as well be a tank with only half as much HP & no charm. And someone with those stats would be considered quite fail.

So telling the cleric its their job to not let you even reach 50% is turning yourself into a fail stat tank, not making the cleric a fail cleric.

Nexdonum - Lost City wrote: »

A smart Cleric doesn't heal someone unless they grab aggro.

Yeah, a tank usually wouldn't have aggro.

Darksylph - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Failed logic there.

A clerics job is to make sure your HP doesnt reach 0. Its not their job to make sure your HP doesnt reach 50%.

You might as well be a tank with only half as much HP & no charm. And someone with those stats would be considered quite fail.

So telling the cleric its their job to not let you even reach 50% is turning yourself into a fail stat tank, not making the cleric a fail cleric.

Yeah, a cleric's job is just that. A *good* cleric will keep your charm from ticking.

There are usually plenty of DDs in a party, so having a cleric that doens't feel the incessant need to metal mage is always welcomed.

The Metal MAGE!

Tank: I need heals...
Random DD: the AOE is killing the party!!!
Cleric: I'm sorry, I didn't notice everyone's charms were ticking 100 times, I thought I would help kill the boss faster since I just leveled Tempest and Wield Thunder!! =D
Tank: PURIFY ME
Random DD: *dies from AOE*
Tank: ...
Cleric: Oh, don't worry, I have lvl 4 revive.
Tank: *dies*

*party wipes*

Cleric: How did you die, I was healing you as best as I could :O

Michael_dark

'' Yeah, a cleric's job is just that. A *good* cleric will keep your charm from ticking ''

I don't feel as as walking free hp charm & buffing squad pet, and do you think that someone cares if my mp charm ticks on and on because i must heal someone which is far away to be a tank ?.

SilverCleric - Lost City wrote: »

That should mean that a Barbs HP charm deserves to tick also since event pots are a lot cheaper to use. b:lipcurl

A charm restores hp instantly. Crab Jiaozi takes 10 sec to restore 3500 hp. If a barb has 15k hp, a charm will take him from 7.5k to 15k in an instant. Jiaozi will need 20 sec to take him from 7.5k to 14.5k. The rate the barb is taking damage almost always far exceeds the rate Jiaozi can replenish it, so Jiaozi is not a viable means to replenish a tank's hp during a fight. You need a cleric and/or a hp charm.

That's very different from an mp charm. Herb Yuanxiao restores 5k mp in 10 sec, or 500 mp/sec. Nothing a cleric can spam can consume mana at that rate, so Yuanxiao can always replenish mp faster than the cleric is consuming it.

Also, with tokens currently (on HT) around 10k, Herb Yuanxiao costs 600 coin to make for 5k mp. That means it restores 8.3 mp per coin. A plat charm is about 2.5 mil coin for 1.8 mil mp, or 0.72 mp per coin. That makes Herb Yuanxiao 11.6x cheaper than an mp charm.

Crab Jiaozi at the same token price costs 1800 coin for 3500 hp, or 1.94 hp per coin. A plat charm is about 2.5 mil coin for 1.2 mil hp, or 0.48 hp per coin. That makes Crab Jiaozi only 4x cheaper than a hp charm.

So even ignoring the need for the instant hp replenishment from a hp charm, the event mp food is 3x more cost-effective than event hp food compared to a charm.

Vienna - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Michael_dark

'' Yeah, a cleric's job is just that. A *good* cleric will keep your charm from ticking ''

I don't feel as as walking free hp charm & buffing squad pet, and do you think that someone cares if my mp charm ticks on and on because i must heal someone which is far away to be a tank ?.

Wow.... people still don't get it do they.

MP is a resource needed to cast spells... The fact that you *choose* to wear a charm or not actually means little to the party. The fact that you would equate an MP charm tick to a HP one is just silly. You need to use the MP unless you plan on melee attacking a mob or boss.

As a BM or Barb, a HP charm is meant to keep the person from dying. HP isn't consumed from normal use of skills or attacking. BM or Barbs also consume MP. Hearing a BM or Barb say "My MP charm is ticking QQ" during the course of an instance would be beyond hilarious.

Use of charms are mostly voluntary, however in many cases a tank will need to wear a charm to keep the entire party from wiping.

A cleric should try their best to prevent a HP charm from ticking because that is largely preventable. Keeping an MP charm from ticking is a joke at best.... do you ever pot to prevent it from ticking? No, because the MP charm is used to replace potting, for you lazy clerics that AFK and macro heal all the time... however most people with HP charms will pot to keep from ticking.

Metal mages are lame. Your job in a party is to maintain and manage the health of the squad. Clerics in a squad are support charachters. Play your role or reroll. Or you can tank and heal yourself and I'll do minimal DD while I just watch you and laugh. I'm certainly not going to attack anything if you're not gonna heal worth a ****.

This topic is quite ridiculous and it's sad that it has to be explained.

EDIT: Since I have to explain this, I might as well also state, yes a HP charm is expected to tick and you can't prevent it a lot of the time, however as a cleric you should be aware if you can do a better job of healing... and it's fine if you wish to metal mage, but not at the cost of a tanks HP charm... it's not going to cost you any more or less off your MP charm to do so. And, I'm actually writing this as I'm solo tanking Illusion Lord Armageddon because I have two pro clerics who are healing me and I don't have to worry.

Sorry, at 10x I've had enough of fail metal mages.

Sgt - Raging Tide wrote: »

Act IV: The Leroy Jenkin BM
Random Member: We're gonna attack from this location, and...
BM: HUR HUR HUR LET'S GO!
-BM rush in, aggros boss, gets killed-
BM: I NEED A REZ!
Cleric:: ...
-Boss goes after Cleric, Cleric dies, Squad wiped-

*Note, applies to ANY class, just feel that BMs are getting too much love*

I call them suicidal BMs. It seems to be the class's required personality disorder. b:chuckle

Glowfish - Lost City wrote: »

Someone else in squad: ohnoez! a psy! don't steal aggro
Psy: b:angry

I can't be the only person peeved about that? lol

Nope, I agree. If you have a decent squad with a capable cleric, they will expect you to steal agro every now and then and throw a couple of IHs your way. Personally, I like having TB in squad, because of their DDing abilities, making the run faster and therefor cheaper for me. Competence FTW. b:victory

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Keeping an MP charm from ticking is a joke at best.... do you ever pot to prevent it from ticking? No, because the MP charm is used to replace potting, for you lazy clerics that AFK and macro heal all the time... however most people with HP charms will pot to keep from ticking.

I do actually pot to save my mp charm a little while in BB or RB. 500mp per 5 seconds drains a lot, but I can prevent about 2/5 ticks by potting.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

Metal mages are lame. Your job in a party is to maintain and manage the health of the squad. Clerics in a squad are support charachters. Play your role or reroll.

Although I mostly agree, you forgot to mention that we also buff and debuff besides healing.

Michael_dark - Lost City wrote: »

...yes a HP charm is expected to tick and you can't prevent it a lot of the time...

If I'm trying to keep other squad members alive as well (yes, the DDs matter to me as well, as it saves the tank money spent on repairs) and miss a heal on the tank, then that could be seen as an emergency that calls for a charm tick. Ticking in case of an emergency is what they're there for, correct? Unfortunately we can not keep everyone at full hp at all times, although (speaking for myself here) I do try my absolute best to keep all those neat red bars in my squad list full. b:surrender

_Rosaly_ - Lost City wrote: »

Although I mostly agree, you forgot to mention that we also buff and debuff besides healing.

If I'm trying to keep other squad members alive as well (yes, the DDs matter to me as well, as it saves the tank money spent on repairs) and miss a heal on the tank, then that could be seen as an emergency that calls for a charm tick. Ticking in case of an emergency is what they're there for, correct? Unfortunately we can not keep everyone at full hp at all times, although (speaking for myself here) I do try my absolute best to keep all those neat red bars in my squad list full. b:surrender

Of course, I'm not talking about perfectly acceptable situations... as I meant you can't avoid charm ticks, they're going to happen regardless. A good support cleric will pride themselves on trying to keep charms from ticking and people from dying, at least all the good ones I know. A lot of clerics just don't care, will let people tick cause they think it's funny or metal mage because they're tired of healing people and want to be a DD instead of a healer...

Vienna - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I doubt you have explain something, beside how to keep your own cost low and how is a cleric job to keep your cost at the minimum.
And nope i don't need to heal everyone who trying to be a tank, tanks are barbarians and few bm which are vit. bulid, everything else it's ofen hard to heal and then tick >my< mp charm twice so much as by a real tank. There is the difference for me, but not much for all '' wanna be a str, dex,..tanks''. They getting angry only if they own charm tick and let out all the frustration on a noob cleric and getting a pro cleric which is willing to do every ****.

I'm a Fist BM. I am a real tank. I hold aggro better than a barb and I also do a lot more damage. My repair costs run 50k-110k per instance, not including pots, genie fuel and charm ticks. I know it's impossible to keep a charm from ticking. I use a charm to keep the party from possibly wiping. You use a charm because it's convenient to not have to pot. My job is to keep mobs off you, and to keep you from injury... your job is to do the same to me. Your mp charm if you choose to have one will tick regardless if you try to keep the tank's charm from ticking or not, so what's the problem?

I don't get angry when my charm ticks a few times... that's perfectly reasonable... when my charm ticks over and over because a cleric is busy playing metal mage or because they don't pay attention and purify when necessary or just because they're not paying attention IS lame.

_Rosaly_ - Lost City wrote: »

WooT, then I guess by your standards I'm a good (support) cleric. b:victory b:chuckle

Everyone has their good days and bad days, some people play their classes well and some despite trying to don't do as well.... then there are some people just don't care. All I ask for is a cleric that knows how to play their class and is willing to pay attention. I don't think I'm very judgmental at all. And yes, if anything I've said has any meaning to you, I'd expect that you do pride yourself as a support cleric. ^^

Unfortunately, there are those that actually do get upset from each charm tick. I am glad to read you are not one of those people.

No, I know my charm is going to tick and I expect that it will. Just as there are barbs that don't roar, BMs that don't stun, venos that won't seal, there are those that know what skills to use where and when to avoid bringing the health of the party close to 0 before worrying about healing people.

As far as non-purifying clerics goes... that must be one of my pet peeves. I sometimes find myself in the luxury position of finding a secondary cleric in a squad. If they don't specify that they rather DD than support and I see that they don't purify, I tend to boot and/or kill them after a couple of warnings. I rather work harder being the only cleric in squad and replace a non-purifying cleric with a DD than watching their target take more damage than necessary because they can't be arsed to time and throw in a purify every now and then.

lol. Boot and kill them! I have to admit I've done that on a couple of occasions. A cleric should be free to DD as long as the health of the party isn't jeopardized. A good cleric knows when they're free to DD... bad ones will just DD and heal only when it's absolutely required of them. I'm sure this will offend a few of the metal mages, but it shouldn't bother them because they're DDs and aren't concerned if they let a charm tick a dozen times more than they could have, with no extra cost or expense to them. Everyone, even the clerics here that are QQing about my post have to know at least few clerics that fit in this category.

If you're a cleric and you want to be secondary cleric in my squad and prefer to DD... let me know so I (and the rest of the squad) do not depend on your support skills. If you can communicate that to us, I don't mind at all letting you DD. I prefer the supporting role anyway. b:cute

Oooh... b:dirty

Well at least I'm not a mooch b:laugh




I haven't really met any annoying people since I strictly squad with friends b:lipcurl

There should be no excuse for having not enough mp pots above level 75 when herb yuanxiao is available, before that i consider it a learning curve of what mana consumption your class goes through, no-one should still be using mp charms unless for PK or TW.

I don't let charms tick on purpose but if the tank takes to long to hit the boss and my stacked IH's have ran out before hand and im not healing to stop myself getting heal agro im going to be pissed if he starts complaining about his hp charm and will let it tick a good amount of times just for good measure.

Clerics get alot of stick in squads for all kind of things but seriously cleric damage is extremely under-rated b:surrender, by the way people are describing it we are lucky to be able to quest alone let alone actually kill something b:scornb:surrender.