Squading Assassin

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Comments

  • Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear
    Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,385 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Progrinder - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    tha kyoshi make me laught, he says so many crapb:laugh but ... even that mob in fb 51 u just have to follow wall and u won't agro the other mobs. Just play with good player and there won't be squad whype like that.... and u also can tell your squad before u go stealth and pass mob, if they can read they won't die either xd

    and btw sin are less squishy than archer with bloodpaint focused mindand deadlen nerves (that was a reallly stupid comment when u said u just need one more arrow...), and even to run boss away got two speed skill that can help your genie speed skill, dunno wich boss u usualy run but they go faster than u if u don't use speed skillb:surrender

    and just for the damage, sin do more dps than lot of class and for sure more than an archerb:bye

    If its the guardian i am thinking of... there is no problem just hugging the pillar. no need for a sin.
    You only roughly need 2 speed skills to run away from any given boss... any extras is just the bonus. And any class has that through the use of genie. So i am not sure where you are going with this.
    Considering the sin comes back with what... 20% of his hp. And i do what... 1k+ dmg to a LA. So if i don't crit, the sin would need aleast 5k-6k hp to stay up, and about 7-8k hp to be safe.
    1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
    2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
    3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.

    Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Airyll - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Getting all defensive again.

    If you can't physically prove that you can get the highest DPS in the game right now just shut the **** up and wait until you can rather than yelling at everybody else who wants you to show them figures and numbers and real in game stats rather than theories and numbers you THINK might be right. Why?

    Because as has been said theories can be proven wrong. Rather than screaming at everybody who reminds you of this fact and claiming they're all being biased, maybe take off your blinkers, open your very closed mind and realise they are not calling you useless they are wanting you to prove that you are not and to defend and back up your claims with evidence which actually proves something.

    I added the emphasis there so you might understand what's actually being said.

    Stop victimising yourself. We aren't telling you you're useless, we're telling you you're making very bold claims with no evidence to prove you're right. You then make yourself look like a complete **** and an arrogant fool when you scream at them claiming they're saying one thing when in fact, they aren't.

    Get with the programme please, you're making this thread painful.

    -ninja edit- The words you post on the forum are not proof. They are not detailed stats, they are not well explained, they are simply words.
    Go get us real proof, like screenshots. If you want somebody to eat their words you'd better damn well do it properly or you can well bet we will argue the toss with you and your arrogant "OMG YOU'RE ALL PICKIN' ON ME HOW COULD YOU CALL ME USELESS QQ" nature.


    why not get defensive? just look back on the 12+ pages yourself and just look at all the comments that have flat out said sins were useless. the ppl ingame that are refusing invites because they THINK sins are useless for w/e reason. here is more evidence for you which i thought was already known anyway:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=593821

    this is almost exactly how it was when fist BMs were first thought up to being the best DPSers in game. of course for w/e reason you guys want screen shots/vids now even tho it took theorizing/planing/ and a few formulas to get out full potential of most classes.

    its in the game and they are capable of it. all they have to do is GET IT and maybe wait for demon spark. why is it so hard to accept that? do you seriously need a few screen shots/vids when the evidence is right in your face?

    and you keep saying it can be proven wrong yet i see nothing proving that is wrong. so if you really want to shut me up prove that i am wrong on the DPS that a sin can get. prove me wrong that they cant get 5 atk/second with demon spark. and prove me wrong that a FIST archer can out damage them with that same 5 atk/sec.

    thats all that i am saying to you guys. prove to me that a sin is not capable of all that i have said and proven. ive already even show a vid of a sin OUT DAMAGING a lvl 100 fist archer by a large large margin. all you would have to do is add 5atk/sec to that sins dmg and demon spark which they are capable of -_-

    whether you need screen shots or not just look at the facts. a fist archer can never out dps a sin. they will lack far to much dmg... you do not need a ****ing screen shot or vid to prove common sense. all you need is a damn brain. 164 str for to power fist or 450+ dex to power daggers? infact why the hell do u think so many archers complained about not being able to use daggers when they first released expansion lol?
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    here is another theory for u then which was started in this very same thread then.

    in theory, assassins are useless in squads

    in theory, an archer is better then a assassin

    in theory, a fist BM is better then assassins

    in theory, a assassin is not needed and is just a useless class to have


    this has been an extremely biased and hypocritical thread. so many people have bashed sins as being a useless and unneeded class in this thread with no proof to back up there claims for a sin being useless. but you tell me to show proof on the usefullness of a sin? (even tho i gave proof and others have showed you the math on how a sin is a good DPSers)

    what i am doing is proving all of the biased and hypocritical people wrong. where is YOUR proof that a sin is useless in a squad? where is YOUR proof that they cant achieve the DPS i have talked about? i showed you how it is possible, now show me how it isnt possible? id really love for you to show me how its not possible for a sin to get 5atk/sec and not out DPS a fist archer and a fist BM even tho me and many others have already proven it is possible.

    so since you want me to prove that you are wrong (which i already have) i want you and all the others that agree that sins are useless/cant out DPS archers to prove me wrong. i still have yet to see anything backing up the claim that a sin is a useless class. ive already even shown you a lvl 93 sin largely out dmging a lvl 100 fist archer and that lvl 93 sin has no where near the gear the archer has. and in that very same vid it was shown how a sin can solo instances.

    its just amazing how people ignore facts that are put right in front of there face....

    It's like trying to argue science to a creationist...

    People making the claim that sins are useless in a squad (wether right or wrong) did so based on empyrical evidence, not theory.

    Archers have long established themselves a useful and competent class.

    Fist BMs have recently proven themselves a viable, outstanding build.

    There is currently no PvE content for which an assasin is required (fact) and no sound reason has been accepted by the comunity as a whole to prefer squading a sin over any other class.

    Don't try to pass off as theories things that aren't, you obviously lack intelectual rigueur. This isn't a two sided argument. The point being discussed in this thread is the merit of the OP's claims (and now apparently yours) not wether sins are useful or not. This is not about bashing your class but about wether your claims are legitimate. Please accept that there is currently no factual basis for your allegations.

    Edit; You have proven nothing. A lot of theories and builds have fizzled and become forgotten. Fist BMs did prove themselves, sins have yet to become the best dps available in game.
  • Danikovich - Heavens Tear
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I have lived 91 levels without assassins why should I bother to learn anything from them now? b:surrender
    Like they say in my country:
    When you are too smart, smartness eats you up.
  • Mayfly - Dreamweaver
    Mayfly - Dreamweaver Posts: 6,094 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Gasoline - Lost City wrote: »
    Everyone rushes TT its not hard even lvl 70 cleric can do it - plume shield + holy path. You must go with terrible parties >.<

    Dont know anyone with half a brain that wastes times killing mobs in TT unless you have to for 3-X quest.

    If the cleric has Holy Path, which isn't a given... mine doesn't. There's nothing in a cleric's (or any other class's, for that matter) job description saying "Thou wilt put Holy Path on thy genie." Assuming they have the real fail, and there's 1-x and 2-x quests that involve killing mobs, too.

    I really don't understand the obsession with getting things done as fast as possible. I much prefer minimizing the possibility of accidents. That means not rushing, and not sneaking except where accidents are extremely rare. But then, my highest level is 78 after nearly a year of play... I'm not in a rush to get in all my dailies every day (Hah! As if I'd have time to do all my char's dailies every day) and power level to level cap.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Weekly Japanese/English bilingual webcomic
    thejapanesepage.com/ebooks/yuki_no_monogatari_manga
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    It's like trying to argue science to a creationist...

    People making the claim that sins are useless in a squad (wether right or wrong) did so based on empyrical evidence, not theory.

    Archers have long established themselves a useful and competent class.

    Fist BMs have recently proven themselves a viable, outstanding build.

    There is currently no PvE content for which an assasin is required (fact) and no sound reason has been accepted by the comunity as a whole to prefer squading a sin over any other class.

    Don't try to pass off as theories things that aren't, you obviously lack intelectual rigueur. This isn't a two sided argument. The point being discussed in this thread is the merit of the OP's claims (and now apparently yours) not wether sins are useful or not. This is not about bashing your class but about wether your claims are legitimate. Please accept that there is currently no factual basis for your allegations.


    actually i am saying that all my claims are truth. obviously it is very bold big and maybe even arrogant claims but the facts are there. i even pointed you to my thread proving those facts as right. the people refusing invites are doing it purely because they are *******s nothing more. i said that in my very first post. i have NO PROBLEM at all getting in a squad. actually most of the times BMs they love me in squads because it seems some BMs love the blood paint skill. even 9x BMs constantly ask me to buff them with blood paint while they tank. and from my god to honest experiences from all the classes i played bosses went down faster with just sins for DDers in the squad rather then just archers for DDers in the squad.


    people refuse invites from just pure ignorance on not knowing what the class can do and not giving them a chance to show what they can do. that is why i made the arguments and claims i did because ppl seem to be oblivious to what a sin is capable of.

    but since you guys are hell bent on screen shots/vids because of this "prove your worth" stuff then so be it. ill just save these kinds of threads as reminders for when the claims being made have been put into practice and have been proven to be correct.

    but ill also say one more thing. a sin does not need 5atk/sec to out DPS fist archers. as long as a fist archer has same atk speed as a sin the sin will always out DPS the archer. try it yourself see what happens. regular build sin with regular old equips vs a regular built bow archer and fist archer with regular old equips.

    just simply compare the dmg of a same lvl fist archer to the same lvl sin. post screen shots aswell if u want.
  • DrunkWizard - Lost City
    DrunkWizard - Lost City Posts: 523 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I have lived 91 levels without assassins why should I bother to learn anything from them now? b:surrender
    ^+10 :3b:surrender
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Danikovich - Heavens Tear
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    actually i am saying that all my claims are truth. obviously it is very bold big and maybe even arrogant claims but the facts are there.

    I am Batman! It's the truth I tell you! I may be being arrogant but I'm Batman I swear with all the dark armor and lots of $$$! Girls give me a call I'm very lonely and willing to spend my $$$ with you.


    ROFL! You sir is a troll and don't know.
    Like they say in my country:
    When you are too smart, smartness eats you up.
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    You need to understand the fact that people are more confident with tried and tested methods as compared to new strategies or tactics. The same goes with the introduction of new classes.


    Same for your sin. All your agrument about how sins can achieve the highest DPS in the game (this is only at endgame levels and not at your 5x, 6x or even 8x levels) only puts in more doubt as to how well they would function in a squad (if you hit at such a dps on a boss without any control, youre gonna end up stealing aggro and if u cant tank the damage, it might mean a squad wipe <.<).

    Further adding fuel to it is that youre statement on how well sins can solo instances, etc. If the sin class was so darn good at soloing, why do you even need squad invites for BHs/FBs/etc? Go solo the darn things!!! Why do you even need to bother about people not inviting you into squads.

    Simple Strategy, run thru the instance, get to the boss, cloak to reset all mobs and then use ur uber DPS to pwn the boss...Profit??

    You dont need a barb to tank cos u got evasion, hp and def.
    You dont need a BM since you have uber stun/sleep/etc skill.
    You dont need a cleric to heal since youre bloodpaint gives you hp.
    You dont need an archer or wizard since you outdamage them anyways
    You dont need a veno since you can simply bypass all mobs and hence no point in luring.

    There you go, uber solo class.

    Now if you really wish to be useful to a squad, learn how to work with the present situation or take time to explain how things could be done. If people agree to your strategy (not all of them will) then good else just get your kill and go enjoy.

    I for one always adapt the run strategies depending on the classes available. There have been instances which crazy, suicidal strategies have worked and the proven ones have failed.

    Sins for one are definitely useful in a squad provided they work as a team taking into consideration the abilities of the squad members.

    For example, you running thru strategy wont work if some of the members dont have holy path on their genies <.<. They might be noobs or perhaps they have other skills which they deemed necessary. Just because one squad member can do something, doesnt mean all of them can.
  • Airyll - Dreamweaver
    Airyll - Dreamweaver Posts: 2,882 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I am Batman! It's the truth I tell you! I may be being arrogant but I'm Batman I swear with all the dark armor and lots of $$$! Girls give me a call I'm very lonely and willing to spend my $$$ with you.


    ROFL! You sir is a troll and don't know.

    You aren't Batman! You're too furry and your ears are far too small!


    +1 to your post though, "Batman". Also +1 to your previous posts regarding 91 levels without assassins.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    well you dont really NEED the 5atk/sec. you can compare it to any archer with similar atk speed the results will be the same.

    a sin with 2.2 atk/sec will out DPS a fist archer w ith 2.2 atk/sec for example. for the guys that really want proof and results just compare fist archer of there lvl to a sin of there lvl. you can also compare to bow archers. you dont need the 5atk/sec to see that a sin out DPSes archers.
  • Danikovich - Heavens Tear
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    well you dont really NEED the 5atk/sec. you can compare it to any archer with similar atk speed the results will be the same.

    a sin with 2.2 atk/sec will out DPS a fist archer w ith 2.2 atk/sec for example. for the guys that really want proof and results just compare fist archer of there lvl to a sin of there lvl. you can also compare to bow archers. you dont need the 5atk/sec to see that a sin out DPSes archers.

    for real? You are the one trying to prove something and WE have to look for the proof? b:shocked
    Like they say in my country:
    When you are too smart, smartness eats you up.
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    for real? You are the one trying to prove something and WE have to look for the proof? b:shocked

    actually soon as im back from work i will go and find me a similar lvl archer to compare to just for u guys.

    altho i aready showe you the pic of the lvl 93 sin that was doing 3.3k normal dmg unsparked compared to the lvl 100 fist archer doing 1.9k normal dmg unsparked...

    but w/e, people love to ignore those little details.
  • Danikovich - Heavens Tear
    Danikovich - Heavens Tear Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    actually soon as im back from work i will go and find me a similar lvl archer to compare to just for u guys.

    altho i aready showe you the pic of the lvl 93 sin that was doing 3.3k normal dmg unsparked compared to the lvl 100 fist archer doing 1.9k normal dmg unsparked...

    Pictures are not ... did you say fist archer? lol Either way I think I speak for the majority of players when I say that even after being proved with math & all this will just open space for possibilities, we will all have to see with our own eyes. I mean once there was a picture of a wizard doing 100k damage with some dragon spell, can any wizard pull it off? I dont think so. But any well explained evidence is welcome.
    Like they say in my country:
    When you are too smart, smartness eats you up.
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    actually soon as im back from work i will go and find me a similar lvl archer to compare to just for u guys.

    altho i aready showe you the pic of the lvl 93 sin that was doing 3.3k normal dmg unsparked compared to the lvl 100 fist archer doing 1.9k normal dmg unsparked...

    but w/e, people love to ignore those little details.

    Umm was it on the exact same mob and with similar refines & sharding on the weapon?
  • maocchi
    maocchi Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »
    Umm was it on the exact same mob and with similar refines & sharding on the weapon?

    Archer was taking on a Nirvana boss while the Sin was taking on Linus the Woeful. This claim is obviously legitimate because the bosses are on par with each other.

    /Sarcasm
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    actually soon as im back from work i will go and find me a similar lvl archer to compare to just for u guys.

    altho i aready showe you the pic of the lvl 93 sin that was doing 3.3k normal dmg unsparked compared to the lvl 100 fist archer doing 1.9k normal dmg unsparked...

    but w/e, people love to ignore those little details.

    Tell you what? Instead of continuing with this thread why don't you just gather all your so called "proof" and arrange it neatly, make sure nothing is missing, so you can post it under a threat titled "Absolute proof that sins have the highest endgame dps". Post it here on general, see if your evidence can whitstand the scrutiny of the entire forum comunity.

    As for this thread's original, and long derailed subject, it seems kinda sad no one was able to come up with something inteligent on squading with sins, nor even a decent reason to have them on squad. Shame, really...
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Tell you what? Instead of continuing with this thread why don't you just gather all your so called "proof" and arrange it neatly, make sure nothing is missing, so you can post it under a threat titled "Absolute proof that sins have the highest endgame dps". Post it here on general, see if your evidence can whitstand the scrutiny of the entire forum comunity.

    As for this thread's original, and long derailed subject, it seems kinda sad no one was able to come up with something inteligent on squading with sins, nor even a decent reason to have them on squad. Shame, really...

    actually i already made a thread like that here:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=593821

    if you want to post in it you can. if you want me to take your screen shots i can do that to. and if you really want me to repost it on general that also can be done.

    its not the title you want, but still has the evidence you are asking for. it was in response to all the fist BMs claiming to out DPS sins because a sin couldnt get 5atk/sec. but its still the same for archers to i guess since fist archers and fist BMs are also at war with each other...
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    actually i already made a thread like that here:

    http://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=593821

    if you want to post in it you can. if you want me to take your screen shots i can do that to. and if you really want me to repost it on general that also can be done.

    its not the title you want, but still has the evidence you are asking for.

    No man, it's not, i had already looked through your thread. I'm saying everything should be on the 1st post cuz we wouldn't want you adding further proof throughout the discussion. Your so called "proof" included no screenies, no real math, no real acounting for external factors, etc.

    Put it all together on one post i can read in one sitting and that contains all reasonable evidence required to satisfy skeptics. And dare make the same "bold, maybe arrogant" statements on a thread's title in general as you have been making on page 12 in a discussion that has long been abandoned by most readers as nothing but a flame war. You said you can do it, then go ahead. See how your proof stands up.

    Edit; And yes, i am in fact daring you to post such thread.
  • NPH - Harshlands
    NPH - Harshlands Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Fist Bm can out DPS archer or sin...easily...b:surrender
  • Elviron - Dreamweaver
    Elviron - Dreamweaver Posts: 812 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    As for this thread's original, and long derailed subject, it seems kinda sad no one was able to come up with something inteligent on squading with sins, nor even a decent reason to have them on squad. Shame, really...

    Hmm whats the role of any DDer in a squad with a tank and cleric. All of them in one or the other needs to ensure the cleric and tank are safe. Its that simple really. it doesnt matter what class youre or what skills you got. In the end all that really matters is that everyone makes it through alive.

    Sins with their teleport skills, stuns, seals, paralyze, etc they would be more suited to stop any strays that might go after less squishy squad members. As for the boss, DD and control their dps like how archers and wizards do without being an idiot to steal aggro and cause an uneccessary mess.

    The most important thing though is to ensure everyone makes out alive. How you do it is upto you.
  • Ballistixz - Heavens Tear
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear Posts: 690 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »
    No man, it's not, i had already looked through your thread. I'm saying everything should be on the 1st post cuz we wouldn't want you adding further proof throughout the discussion. Your so called "proof" included no screenies, no real math, no real acounting for external factors, etc.

    Put it all together on one post i can read in one sitting and that contains all reasonable evidence required to satisfy skeptics. And dare make the same "bold, maybe arrogant" statements on a thread's title in general as you have been making on page 12 in a discussion that has long been abandoned by most readers as nothing but a flame war. You said you can do it, then go ahead. See how your proof stands up.

    Edit; And yes, i am in fact daring you to post such thread.

    if its not what you want then then oh well i guess. if i was to rewrite another thread it would be exactly the same as that one with the very same claims and everything else. i am not the only ones making this claim either. its been proven and if you want to discuss it then discuss it in that thread. but it would make no sense to rewrite a entirely diffrent one just so i can put it in the format you want and it end up turning into another flame war anyway.


    if you want me to repost it in general then i will. but im not going to reformat it just for your liking. i really dont understand why i need to explain to ppl that a class with 5atk/sec and that gets all there dmg and crit rate from ONE stat is not among the best DPSers out there... whats so hard to understand about that? you honestly cant see the dmg output that will bring?
  • Heartstone - Dreamweaver
    Heartstone - Dreamweaver Posts: 1,338 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    average geared sin vs fist/claw bm. its aroudn the same, but form personal exp i always end up with the aggro over the bm. i'll not list up facts, im not that good at maths. but only times fist/claw bm's been taking aggro from or before me is when they have been demon sparking ( and im only 82 atm on sin) and you really cant compare a demon spark to a 2 spark lol.
    I'm sorry for misspelling / mistyping and grammar b:surrender

    102 - Archer - Heartz
  • MANray_ - Sanctuary
    MANray_ - Sanctuary Posts: 2,311 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    if its not what you want then then oh well i guess. if i was to rewrite another thread it would be exactly the same as that one with the very same claims and everything else. i am not the only ones making this claim either. its been proven and if you want to discuss it then discuss it in that thread. but it would make no sense to rewrite a entirely diffrent one just so i can put it in the format you want and it end up turning into another flame war anyway.


    if you want me to repost it in general then i will. but im not going to reformat it just for your liking. i really dont understand why i need to explain to ppl that a class with 5atk/sec and that gets all there dmg and crit rate from ONE stat is not among the best DPSers out there... whats so hard to understand about that? you honestly cant see the dmg output that will bring?

    See? It's no longer the same argument once you start going back on your claims. You didn't say that sin would be amongst the top dps outputs, but that it would in fact outdps every other class. You obviously don't have the spine to make the same claims on a thread's title that you do in your posts. You've proven nothing but that you won't back your claims. Cold feet?

    You're willing to go out of your way and take random screenies, but refuse to organize your data methodically, why? If you're right this would settle the issue, but apparently rewriting a single post (and then only to include information which you've already obtained) seems more trouble than to write various and repeated answers to several posters. If you want bragging rights then satisfy what to many of us is a minimal and reasonable standard of proof. Or GTFO. Your thread proves nothing and i do seem to remember some guy writing in bold red letters that the subject is POTENTIAL DPS and not something verified. All the gear is obtainable in game? Go to the appropiate forges and screen it. Oh, but a serious discussion would expose the flaws in your argument...

    It's all speculation and based in theories up until now. What makes you think a sin's demon spark (from what i know, currently unavailable) will even work in the same way for sins as it does for BMs? Venos get neither improved channeling nor attack rate, what's to say the devs didn't actually foresee this might bring up a balance issue and decided to go a different way with the sparks for the TB classes? You don't know, you're only guessing. And since even your guesses you're unwilling to test i guess it's safe to say your words are nothing but hot air... Take all your bragging and pretentions back to the sin's forum, they seem to like it there.
  • vbarbie
    vbarbie Posts: 232 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ALL just STFU ... enuff with the Im a better class BS.. Here's what makes ANY Stupid Class the best............. REAL MONEY..... now cut this **** off.
  • Nikamerece - Lost City
    Nikamerece - Lost City Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    So I've only worked with a sin twice and it panned out well; the other times were fail squads. We were doing bh51 (Fushma, Rankar, Wyvern). He tanked Fushma and Rankar but had some trouble with Wyvern. Before this, we were all skeptical about him being able to do so because we didn't have a barb in squad. Being the one cleric, I was SO glad I was charmed -- I thought I'd have my work cut out for me. Turns out he barely needed me with Fushma and much less than most 6x barbs I've worked with for Rankar. I had to eat my words after that.

    I'm still weary of the Assassins, if for no other reason but the fact that I keep finding these people who have Oracled all the way up and don't know how to use their skills. The same assassin who tanked the BH I mentioned before showed me how he can pull. I mentioned this to an assassin in a BH yesterday and he said he said Assassins have no skill that can allow them to pull (it was stealth).

    Until I get some assassins who know how to play their class (and WELL at that), I am still weary of working with them.
    Cleric Power! b:chuckle Clericism movement anyone? =D

    "We are not your slaves,
    We are not your babysitters,
    We are not your personal med-pack,
    We are Clerics, god dammit,
    And if your death means the survival of the squad as a whole,
    Well...I'll see you in hell..."
    -Sralyn [Dreamweaver]
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    lol Giodia...i ask u the same question...did u ever play a sin? or can u do math? we sure are capable of out DPSing a fist bm or a or an archer...we aren't complete yet so we can'T come close to that goal but in the end its a fact that we are the highest dps class. i won't argue anymore cause it seems pointless to try. u won't believe it either. yes sins are pvp based but they might have some use if squaded. again i emphasize IF squaded....i never said they are better than bms or other classes....so drop that point. and finally i will apologize AGAIN(seems like no ones is bothering to read here) that i made 2 mistakes in the first pages regarding psys and highest dmg of a sin...and i apologize for not writing in a better way. i was in the middle of a bh and that problem occured again...so i tried to write some suggestions how to react with a sin in squad.

    lol. You have the best dps? If what you are saying is right, you can solo all BH / instances alone..so congrates....

    Because with that dps, you wouldn't need us. you are a tank + dd all roll into one. why need a squad for bh then?

    The point being, you can stealth and kill guardians, right..... we can still clear our way there without you.
  • Giodia - Heavens Tear
    Giodia - Heavens Tear Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    if its not what you want then then oh well i guess. if i was to rewrite another thread it would be exactly the same as that one with the very same claims and everything else. i am not the only ones making this claim either. its been proven and if you want to discuss it then discuss it in that thread. but it would make no sense to rewrite a entirely diffrent one just so i can put it in the format you want and it end up turning into another flame war anyway.


    if you want me to repost it in general then i will. but im not going to reformat it just for your liking. i really dont understand why i need to explain to ppl that a class with 5atk/sec and that gets all there dmg and crit rate from ONE stat is not among the best DPSers out there... whats so hard to understand about that? you honestly cant see the dmg output that will bring?

    Someone has mentioned, sage/ demon sparking may not be the way you have anticipated it.

    With so much fishy hate around, I wouldn't think the developers in China will give you something that overpowered. That would mean the death of all classes in TW or any pvp related activity.

    So, please wait till you have conclusive proof that sage/ demon is coming for your class, because for what we all know, it's still not here and that proves nothing to your argument.

    Hopes and potential can vanish like smoke. It's Concrete proof or nothing.
  • Konariraiden - Heavens Tear
    Konariraiden - Heavens Tear Posts: 6,505 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    lol. You have the best dps? If what you are saying is right, you can solo all BH / instances alone..so congrates....

    Because with that dps, you wouldn't need us. you are a tank + dd all roll into one. why need a squad for bh then?

    The point being, you can stealth and kill guardians, right..... we can still clear our way there without you.
    Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    Someone has mentioned, sage/ demon sparking may not be the way you have anticipated it.

    With so much fishy hate around, I wouldn't think the developers in China will give you something that overpowered. That would mean the death of all classes in TW or any pvp related activity.

    So, please wait till you have conclusive proof that sage/ demon is coming for your class, because for what we all know, it's still not here and that proves nothing to your argument.

    Hopes and potential can vanish like smoke. It's Concrete proof or nothing.

    Cool stories, sis.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Yeah, it's me. Don't read to much into it, though; I'm only here for myself now, killin' time and chillin' when need-be. So sue me. Tch...
  • Killahoe - Harshlands
    Killahoe - Harshlands Posts: 50 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    A lot of stupid people in this thread.

    Nothing needs to proven with a vid or ss, a sin with equal gear of a fist bm/archer will have higher dps, fact.

    Do the math for your self or check out the thread in the sin forum if you carnt.

    Even with the 3.33 aps(no spark) a sin is probably highest dps.

    Now as for the sin is useless part, just lol.

    I tanked most of my bh's up to bh 51 where i couldnt do wyvern coz of the nasty debuff.My hp was lacking for this coz i stacked garnets in armour slots instead of citrines.

    Now im in bh 59 and tanking the bosses is possible with charm event and apo pots, but i just let the barb do his job and hold back on dps and use debuffs.

    There is a big difference between being useless and not realy needed.

    Would you call a cleric and barb in hh3-1 usless? They arent realy needed coz a herc can do there job.

    It all comes down to that play style and gear of the sin.

    People that have been in squad with me on bh's more often than not have added me to fl and i get spammed to do stuff all time.

    I also have been in squads with other sins that were in awe of what i could do.

    eg i had a squad of 4 sins 1 barb and 1 bm on bh 51 fushma.We got to the the boss fairly easily.I had a bet with the whole squad that if anyone died on fushma i would pay them 100k.All went smooth i kept agro the whole time used a few event pots, 2 or 3 charm ticks , and spark to keep my hp up.Gotta love blood paint with high dps.

    So please dont say sins are usless.

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