Squading Assassin
Comments
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Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »Most air mobs are magical in your Lvl range. So while you are still killing one...I'm already started on my second due to my range which is 10 meters more than you with a BOW.
So are you gonna teleport to the mob all the time?
So far, I have not seen sins grinding on air mobs. And by grind, it means grinding for at least 1 hour on them.
Nah.. haven't seen any sins doing that yet. I'm surprised that I seldom see them underwater too. Except for that ksing psy.
Whether she is playing veno or fishy, it doesn't matter. She wanna risk her hard earned exp, it's her business. No one can say no to that.
But every exp counts and I'm not about to die for a fishy sake. Dying for cleric..yes, dying for veno and other classes, no. Thank you.
You're pretty hypocritical now that I look at it.. saying all the sins in this thread are full of themselves (I'm not, I HATE melee & normally opt for wiz/cleric classes, but so far being a sin is fun, and the only reason I'm playing - not because I think I'm better than other classes), but you're the one constantly drawing comparisons to your "godly" archer class, saying you're better at X and Y and Z and so on.
& Just saying, I've done Spinewraiths for hours when I was at that level. Annoying as hell to pick out ones that weren't grouped (more than 2) together (don't tell me you can tank a group of them, we have the same armor type + sins have a skill that allows them to evade magic attacks), but aside from that, it was perfectly fine. I probably do more damage than an archer of my level on same-level mobs (chill + skill spam + constant sparks + crits on those), so the kill speed is probably closer than you think despite the archer's advantage of range. Either way, what the hell's the point of arguing that one's better than the other? To each his own, and let it be.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ephemerai - Sanctuary wrote: »You're pretty hypocritical now that I look at it.. saying all the sins in this thread are full of themselves (I'm not, I HATE melee & normally opt for wiz/cleric classes, but so far being a sin is fun, and the only reason I'm playing - not because I think I'm better than other classes), but you're the one constantly drawing comparisons to your "godly" archer class, saying you're better at X and Y and Z and so on.
& Just saying, I've done Spinewraiths for hours when I was at that level. Annoying as hell to pick out ones that weren't grouped (more than 2) together (don't tell me you can tank a group of them, we have the same armor type + sins have a skill that allows them to evade magic attacks), but aside from that, it was perfectly fine. I probably do more damage than an archer of my level on same-level mobs (chill + skill spam + constant sparks + crits on those), so the kill speed is probably closer than you think despite the archer's advantage of range. Either way, what the hell's the point of arguing that one's better than the other? To each his own, and let it be.
When I did those, i practically only got 1 - 2 hits from 20 mobs that I killed. It's simply a matter of normal x2, knockback and normal till mob dies. End of story.
The point being that I simply dislike fishies talking trash about replacing classes, not simply because they know most of the other classes. It's their ignorance + arrogance that ticks people off.
So what if you can solo a bh-59? I had so much soloing on my veno till i'm sick of that dungeon. It's a personal achievement no doubt. But the point of the game is to work with other classes.
And how do you expect older classes to accept you when you keep trash-talking and degrading them ?
Replacing them is like "hey, you have grinded your lvls for nothing, considered yourself replaced and time wasted on this toon"
On top of that, it's not like PWI really needed the 2 new classes. This un-called arrogance happens with psys, making claims about replacing archers and wizards too.
So if you really wanna work with us, work on your own attitude first. In time to come, we MIGHT have chance to work together IF I see some humility.
I ran with DrizzleQ before, I saw him killing solo. He has handled situations well. But little did I know, those achievements has inflated his ego.
What I can do, has been done by others before me. I'm simply following the path that they have set, so there's no need for bragging, at least for me.0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »When I did those, i practically only got 1 - 2 hits from 20 mobs that I killed. It's simply a matter of normal x2, knockback and normal till mob dies. End of story.
The point being that I simply dislike fishies talking trash about replacing classes, not simply because they know most of the other classes. It's their ignorance + arrogance that ticks people off.
So what if you can solo a bh-59? I had so much soloing on my veno till i'm sick of that dungeon. It's a personal achievement no doubt. But the point of the game is to work with other classes.
And how do you expect older classes to accept you when you keep trash-talking and degrading them ?
Replacing them is like "hey, you have grinded your lvls for nothing, considered yourself replaced and time wasted on this toon"
On top of that, it's not like PWI really needed the 2 new classes. This un-called arrogance happens with psys, making claims about replacing archers and wizards too.
So if you really wanna work with us, work on your own attitude first. In time to come, we MIGHT have chance to work together IF I see some humility.
I ran with DrizzleQ before, I saw him killing solo. He has handled situations well. But little did I know, those achievements has inflated his ego.
What I can do, has been done by others before me. I'm simply following the path that they have set, so there's no need for bragging, at least for me.
so the other classes being arrorogant with inflated egos talking trash to the "fishies" is all the more justified right? of course it is because ur a biased and a hypocritical little child. this entire thread has been bashing both the psy and sin class since page one yet you only get mad when the "fishies" are arrogant towards everyone else.
both sides are at fault not just the "fishies". if your gonna bash one class for doing something then u damn better bash the other side for doing the exact same thing you hypocrite0 -
Ok, so on the short break that i took from this thread, i do have a life, flaming has continued unabated. The ballista guy continues with his argument that it is up to us, not him, to prove that sins are the highest dps ingame. Someone else addressed me as if i had ever made the point that it's alright not to squad with sins, a view i have never endorsed. A couple of more inflated egos joined the discussion, someone claiming sins are a better choice than any other DD class, and apparently someone seems to think no one can debate the point against preposterous sin claims using a TB avatar. Did i miss something?
1. No class should be left out of squad (and i do mean none, not just sins) as long as a squad has obtained the necessary elements to complete it's nominal objective. Personally i prefer to squad people on a first come, first serve basis.
2. Evidence has not been presented to support sins as the highest dps. To satisfy me this would've only required a full list of gear used and a screenshot of an appropiate level assasin stats which would've enabled me to cross reference the info with what is known about other classes' dps. A single post would've sufficed and, since Gioda also requsted such info, i can state as fact that our requirement for minimal proof has yet to be met. This discussion could've been easily solved where proponents of this teory reasonable.
3. The arrogant and unsporting attitude of proponents of sin as highest dps continues and still devolves into belittling the capabilities of other classes. Some posters have in fact made the assertion that they should in fact be chosen over other dps classes to which i strenously object.
4. On this thread's original topic, no other role but that traditionally shared by BMs and venos (assisting barb, handling strays) has been thoughtfully argued for. I'll take proposing sins as better tanks than barbs as nothing but bravado. It seems unclear to me at this point that even this role is the appropiate one for sins as a) all anecdotical evidence proposed stems from BH runs and does not include instances with same level or higher elites and b) none of the claims are above the ability of traditional DD classes (archers and wizards) to accomplish.
5. The outlandish and preposterous claims of some posters have nothing to do with arguing about sins being useful in a squad. I require no evidence of this since a skilled player is always useful (regardless of class/gear/build). I do apologize to readers competent in playing sins if comments made on the heat of the moment seemed to have addressed sins as a whole. They were meant solely for those posters who think bashing other classes is the only way to prove the usefulness of their class.
6. The points i have made can be boiled down to a) i require proof of claims made about sin's prowess and b) a sin's squad role is yet to be adequately determined as it SEEMS (i'm sure there are exceptions) sins at all level ranges are yet to develop their full potential.
I will only say that belittling others as means to assert yourself is usually easily explained in Freudian psychology. Yes, i'm calling some posters ****less and have been provided with more than ample evidence to back it up.0 -
lol. i would totally take BM, veno, wiz or archer over sin.
barb and cleric is a must for most run0 -
DizzleQ - Heavens Tear wrote: »I'm prolly incredibly late to this thread based on the fact i was tryin to read and its blowin up lol
First off, I'm a sin. Never been rejected from a squad bcuz of it and will be damn pissed if I ever am.
Second, I'm prolly more useful to a party than ANY other DD class.
Third, Don't be jealous bcuz your BM can't even come close to the DPS I can throw.b:victory
I've tried PvP with every class. Barbs are the ONLY thing that can beat me thus far (at approx. 8-10 lvls higher) after MANY a dual. With a VARIETY of stuns/sleeps/etc we are a force to be reckoned with. My build is 1 vit 2 str 7 dex every 10. I can tank (and yes, I mean TANK as in being the aggro holder while being healed by a cleric) fb59 that I know of; haven't tried 69 yet, but I know I can withstand the AoE of any boss I've fought.
Don't be scared to take an assassin into your party for any occasion. We do great damage, can stop runners from doing what they do best, prevent party wipes, lure bosses from miles away, etc. If you have had a bad experience with a sin in the past, let it be. They were more than likely an oracle noob who failed at LEARNING their skills as they went. b:laugh
i like sins in squad....mainly because of bloodpaint
and sins may...MAY out DD bm's at level 100 with rank8 and a dam lucky nivana craft
till then you do not have anything near a fisties damage
ninja edit: i remember bringing up the "proof or dosent happen" point back in your forum to. theories are not considered fact till proven and 1 just 1 case where said theory is proven false disproves the theory
im assuming ballisticz and black are still in 5th grade as they have yet to learn mathmaticle theory or the scientific method
keep in mind that what they know comes from trolls and oracle babies they learn what they seeGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Giodia, shut the **** up.Risingson - 7x Psychic
Indalecio - 3x Cleric0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »i like sins in squad....mainly because of bloodpaint
and sins may...MAY out DD bm's at level 100 with rank8 and a dam lucky nivana craft
till then you do not have anything near a fisties damage
ninja edit: i remember bringing up the "proof or dosent happen" point back in your forum to. theories are not considered fact till proven and 1 just 1 case where said theory is proven false disproves the theory
im assuming ballisticz and black are still in 5th grade as they have yet to learn mathmaticle theory or the scientific method
keep in mind that what they know comes from trolls and oracle babies they learn what they see
If you can think of any legitimate reason why equally levelled and geared sin would not out-dps a BM, I'd be glad to hear it.
I'm not saying fist BMs suck, but it's proven that:
- rank top gives interval
- nirvana daggers give interval
:: Therefore, they can reach an equivalent attack speed of BMs ::
- Since sins are buffing 1 stat (dex) while BMs are spreading it on at least 2
:: Thus sins have a natural higher crit rate and higher natural damage than BMs ::
>> Summing up the above two ideas, equivalent attack speed + higher damage + higher crit = greater dps
You've had more than one person tell you Nirvana crafts daggers with interval, and again more than one person telling you rank top gives interval. People that are obviously not "oracle babies". With all do respect, it seems to me you're in a little bit of denial that a class is surpassing what you appear to pride yourself in.
Given contemporary available information, I don't see how you can still refute the potential DPS of sins. You're making it sound like some far-fetched idea that has less chance of working than winning the lottery, when in fact it's going to be in the near future we see our sin pop up with that gear.
Of course unless by some oddball chance the devs happen to nurf sins at endgame, it's pretty much set that sins have better potential DPS than BMs.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »this entire thread has been bashing both the psy and sin class since page one yet you only get mad when the "fishies" are arrogant towards everyone else.
both sides are at fault not just the "fishies". if your gonna bash one class for doing something then u damn better bash the other side for doing the exact same thing you hypocrite
From "page one" this thread has been about *one* "fishie" ranting about how he can do better than every one of us, and how we're all n00bs for not recognizing it.
I've not spent much time squadded with either class. I am more than willing to give *anyone* a chance to do anything they want in instance - as long as it doesn't get me killed without prospect of rez.
The one thing this thread *has* taught me, however, is to avoid BIackTyphoon like the plague.
b:pleased
Good Jorb.
RedMenace
\has nothing against any classes
\\hasn't rolled a fish, has no idea what they do
\\\avoids egotistical whackjobs, and depends on Forum posts to help point 'em outA human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
Robert A. Heinlein0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »and sins may...MAY out DD bm's at level 100 with rank8 and a dam lucky nivana craft
If you can think of any legitimate reason why equally levelled and geared sin would not out-dps a BM, I'd be glad to hear it.
pre 100 = geard bm > dps than sin...- interval multiplys as it stacks we have a faster base speed
if the sin gets the -.2 from rank 8 and a lucky nirvana craft then yeah they will out dps bm's assuming their animation cap is the same as fistsGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »If you can think of any legitimate reason why equally levelled and geared sin would not out-dps a BM, I'd be glad to hear it.
I'm not saying fist BMs suck, but it's proven that:
- rank top gives interval
- nirvana daggers give interval
:: Therefore, they can reach an equivalent attack speed of BMs ::
- Since sins are buffing 1 stat (dex) while BMs are spreading it on at least 2
:: Thus sins have a natural higher crit rate and higher natural damage than BMs ::
>> Summing up the above two ideas, equivalent attack speed + higher damage + higher crit = greater dps
You've had more than one person tell you Nirvana crafts daggers with interval, and again more than one person telling you rank top gives interval. People that are obviously not "oracle babies". With all do respect, it seems to me you're in a little bit of denial that a class is surpassing what you appear to pride yourself in.
Given contemporary available information, I don't see how you can still refute the potential DPS of sins. You're making it sound like some far-fetched idea that has less chance of working than winning the lottery, when in fact it's going to be in the near future we see our sin pop up with that gear.
Of course unless by some oddball chance the devs happen to nurf sins at endgame, it's pretty much set that sins have better potential DPS than BMs.
Now this is a good piece of evidence. The OP should have said something like that but is just bad at theorycrafting and ordering ideas. Now we have 22 pages of mostly useless info.Like they say in my country:
When you are too smart, smartness eats you up.0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »If you can think of any legitimate reason why equally levelled and geared sin would not out-dps a BM, I'd be glad to hear it.
pre 100 = geard bm > dps than sin...- interval multiplys as it stacks we have a faster base speed
if the sin gets the -.2 from rank 8 and a lucky nirvana craft then yeah they will out dps bm's assuming their animation cap is the same as fists
That's all I wanted to get at. For you to acknowledge that the potential dps of a sin is vast and certainly exceeds that of a fist BM. And there is really no "may" about it. Look at the facts, and it's right there.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »That's all I wanted to get at. For you to acknowledge that the potential dps of a sin is vast and certainly exceeds that of a fist BM. And there is really no "may" about it. Look at the facts, and it's right there.
oh potential?
cant lunar claws be recasted with adv revenge?
wich is a 60% damage buff that stacks with everything?
just a thoughtb:dirtyGifs are hard to make work here0 -
Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »oh potential?
cant lunar claws be recasted with adv revenge?
wich is a 60% damage buff that stacks with everything?
just a thoughtb:dirty
I wouldn't know about that. Sure if that's the case, awesome. But I'm going to assume nirvana daggers also have some nice adds. What they are though, I don't know.
Just going with available information, you can't really deny sin DPS > fist BM dps.
edit*
I looked up the claws here.
http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/items/25680
That's the one with advanced revenge I'm assuming. Notice it doesn't have -0.1 interval as an option, but rather -0.05. Is that a bug, downgrade or is it accurate ?_?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
wow what now...looks like i am hated by quite a bit of PWI population....
and i even apologized 3 times and pointed out that these things were only assumptions....but well ok all u great archers and BMs. we cannot out DPS since we cannot get intervall gear to that extend as to give us 5dps, and we are obviously no tanker duo to our build. and since we are useless anyway(cause Bms can do everything we can) guess PWI insterted a fail class. -.-
As for the 5th grade thing...actually i am in the 12th grade and i based my assumptions for the dps from the intervall gear which we can get ingame and the daggers with interval also adding the fact that we get our dmg purely from dex making our dmg boost higher than classes who have to split their stats.(if that is wrong, then there sure is sth. wrong with what i learned)
well seems like such gear doesn't exist and we won't be able to get it so no outdpsing anything.
i will apologize for a 4th time since i really only wanted to point out some uses for sins in squad(given they are already in a squad). to all of u offended classes, cool down. this is not worth arguing over. sry and i won't post in this thread again so u won't be offended again.
p.s the guy who said he wanted to avoid me like a pest.....who are u ? we won't meet anyway, so guess u are lucky for never seeing me0 -
Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »If you can think of any legitimate reason why equally levelled and geared sin would not out-dps a BM, I'd be glad to hear it.
I'm not saying fist BMs suck, but it's proven that:
- rank top gives interval
- nirvana daggers give interval
:: Therefore, they can reach an equivalent attack speed of BMs ::
- Since sins are buffing 1 stat (dex) while BMs are spreading it on at least 2
:: Thus sins have a natural higher crit rate and higher natural damage than BMs ::
>> Summing up the above two ideas, equivalent attack speed + higher damage + higher crit = greater dps
You've had more than one person tell you Nirvana crafts daggers with interval, and again more than one person telling you rank top gives interval. People that are obviously not "oracle babies". With all do respect, it seems to me you're in a little bit of denial that a class is surpassing what you appear to pride yourself in.
Given contemporary available information, I don't see how you can still refute the potential DPS of sins. You're making it sound like some far-fetched idea that has less chance of working than winning the lottery, when in fact it's going to be in the near future we see our sin pop up with that gear.
Of course unless by some oddball chance the devs happen to nurf sins at endgame, it's pretty much set that sins have better potential DPS than BMs.
Well, i should at least thank you for trying to provide a reasoned explanation. Yes, your theory SEEMS based on sound premises.
Now, can someone provide some freaking numbers. How much damage would a lvl 100 sin with 5atk/sec actually do? I mean real numbers, how much would he crit for? How much attack does each point of Dex add to a dagger?
COMPRENDE? what's the theoretical dps that you're talking about?0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, i should at least thank you for trying to provide a reasoned explanation. Yes, your theory SEEMS based on sound premises.
Now, can someone provide some freaking numbers. How much damage would a lvl 100 sin with 5atk/sec actually do? I mean real numbers, how much would he crit for? How much attack does each point of Dex add to a dagger?
COMPRENDE? what's the theoretical dps that you're talking about?
There might be a handful of assassins, spanning across all 6 servers that are level 100. There might be 1 assassin in those, that have rank 8. And even within that one person who might have rank 8, there is an even more miniscule chance that that person has recasted daggers.
Being realistic, no assassin in all of PWI has said gear to provide us with a factual, tangible representation.
The best we can come up with is an educated, logical, hypothesis, derived with given information and confirmed facts - that is, a theory.
Perhaps it would be best if we asked a high level assassin to come and tell us what their physical attack with their daggers is at this point, but I'm not sure what that would accomplish.
Daggers already have higher base damage than fists. Sin's only have to stack one stat. BMs have to spread it amongst two.
Using common sense:
Assassin:
What stat adds damage?
Dex
How many points do I add every level?
4 every level.
BM:
What stat adds damage?
Str
How many points do I add every level?
3
Using basic arithmetic, at level 100, the BM will have around 305 str, while the assassin will have around 400 dex. That's a natural crit rate of 20% with 95 more points of damage. Granted I don't know the modifier of dex on damage, but it's logical and realistic to assume it's not heavily gimped.
With all that said, it is still a theory until we come across a level 100 rank 8 sin with recasted daggers, and it will remain a theory until this assassin does appear.
But even I have to admit, sins seem to have a higher potential in DPS.
I also want to point out, any class with such godlike equips can solo a lot of instances. It's not just sins. BMs, archers, anyone. There's no point arguing over the superiority of classes. There's win and fail everywhere.
You just need to play your strengths.
**That's just my thoughts on the DPS between BMs and Sins. I don't know the actual formula for them, and wish I did so I can compare Whoever comes out top I have yet to know [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »Well, i should at least thank you for trying to provide a reasoned explanation. Yes, your theory SEEMS based on sound premises.
Now, can someone provide some freaking numbers. How much damage would a lvl 100 sin with 5atk/sec actually do? I mean real numbers, how much would he crit for? How much attack does each point of Dex add to a dagger?
COMPRENDE? what's the theoretical dps that you're talking about?
4 dex adds 12 min phy attack and 16 maximum atk. so that means every point of dex adds 3 atk to min phy attack and 4 maximum phy attk. this is without any atk modifiers.Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »i like sins in squad....mainly because of bloodpaint
and sins may...MAY out DD bm's at level 100 with rank8 and a dam lucky nivana craft
till then you do not have anything near a fisties damage
ninja edit: i remember bringing up the "proof or dosent happen" point back in your forum to. theories are not considered fact till proven and 1 just 1 case where said theory is proven false disproves the theory
im assuming ballisticz and black are still in 5th grade as they have yet to learn mathmaticle theory or the scientific method
keep in mind that what they know comes from trolls and oracle babies they learn what they see
o rly? u still have yet to prove me or anyone else wrong lol. uve already proven urself to be a idiot in the DPS thread for sins.i still have yet for anyone to prove any of the things i said in the DPS thread to be wrong. so far all ive gotten was flames from ppl like u who seem to not understand what interval gear is and to stupid to realize the potential of a class with 5atk/sec and all there damage AND crit rate are coming from ONE stat.Joshcja - Sanctuary wrote: »
pre 100 = geard bm > dps than sin...- interval multiplys as it stacks we have a faster base speed
you really are stupid huh? or are you forgetting about rank 4? we went over this with you already mr josh. also theres lvl 90 daggers called dream breaker that add 0.1 intervals. however the only problem with that is i dont think anyone has those daggers yet.0 -
Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »4 dex adds 12 min phy attack and 16 maximum atk. so that means every point of dex adds 3 atk to min phy attack and 4 maximum phy attk. this is without any atk modifiers.
o rly? u still have yet to prove me or anyone else wrong lol. uve already proven urself to be a idiot in the DPS thread for sins.i still have yet for anyone to prove any of the things i said in the DPS thread to be wrong. so far all ive gotten was flames from ppl like u who seem to not understand what interval gear is and to stupid to realize the potential of a class with 5atk/sec and all there damage AND crit rate are coming from ONE stat.
you really are stupid huh? or are you forgetting about rank 4? we went over this with you already mr josh. also theres lvl 90 daggers called dream breaker that add 0.1 intervals. however the only problem with that is i dont think anyone has those daggers yet.
If sins has got so much -interval and dps, then I think sins should be nerfed.
An OP LA class that is already dominating PVP-related activity. At least Archers aren't that OP and could hardly kill anything with high level refines.
Adding demon/ Sage culti, sins are gonna be the one class to rule every other classes?
This is simply outrageous.0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »If sins has got so much -interval and dps, then I think sins should be nerfed.
An OP LA class that is already dominating PVP-related activity. At least Archers aren't that OP and could hardly kill anything with high level refines.
Adding demon/ Sage culti, sins are gonna be the one class to rule every other classes?
This is simply outrageous.
I don't think there's enough of us that have really truly PVPed with sins to conclude that they're overpowered. At least I haven't seen too many of them around.
I'm really just betting on the fact that Light Armor is perhaps the worst armor in the game, that offers low physical/magical defense and low hp. That in turn will reduce an assassin's survivability quite a bit. Though they do have that move that gives them 25% to evade a skill, and also that auto-life thing. But like I said, I don't think too many of us have really PVPed with sins to give a correct input their overpowered-ness (or lack of).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »If sins has got so much -interval and dps, then I think sins should be nerfed.
An OP LA class that is already dominating PVP-related activity. At least Archers aren't that OP and could hardly kill anything with high level refines.
Adding demon/ Sage culti, sins are gonna be the one class to rule every other classes?
This is simply outrageous.
please just stop talking since your proving to be more and more of a idiot everytime u type...
sure a sin has DPS but thats pretty much all they have... they cant really tank anything like barbs and BMs can and there an extremly squishy class. DPS of a sin is one of there traits just like HP and def is a barbs trait or versatility is a BMs trait. or high DPH is a wizzards trait and etc etc.
they dont dominate anything, infact they get 2 shotted by everything. there DPS is what allows them to kill something before they can be killed. if u nerf there DPs then they will get owned hard by just about everything lol... and there greatest weakness is HAs since almost all of there skills are physical. they would have to frantically try to DPS passed a barbs charm or a HA BMs charm to kill them. if they cant do it in time they WILL die. there just to squishy. and any magic class can one to 2 hit sins if a sin is reckless and not in stealth.
seriously think about the **** you are saying. or better yet just ****ing play a sin for 10 damn lvls...0 -
Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »I don't think there's enough of us that have really truly PVPed with sins to conclude that they're overpowered. At least I haven't seen too many of them around.
I'm really just betting on the fact that Light Armor is perhaps the worst armor in the game, that offers low physical/magical defense and low hp. That in turn will reduce an assassin's survivability quite a bit. Though they do have that move that gives them 25% to evade a skill, and also that auto-life thing. But like I said, I don't think too many of us have really PVPed with sins to give a correct input their overpowered-ness (or lack of).
Precisely, as an LA class, archers are pwned by everything, mag or pattk. But the sins have more than enough fire power to turn the tide. What do archers have? As soon as anyone closes up, our damage cuts by half.
The only way is to kite. sins do not need to kite at all. They can tele and attk the target. This is already one way around most things that can kill them.
Adding insult to injury, they have stealth, being the same LA class, I feel severely gimped.Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »please just stop talking since your proving to be more and more of a idiot everytime u type...
sure a sin has DPS but thats pretty much all they have... they cant really tank anything like barbs and BMs can and there an extremly squishy class. DPS of a sin is one of there traits just like HP and def is a barbs trait or versatility is a BMs trait. or high DPH is a wizzards trait and etc etc.
they dont dominate anything, infact they get 2 shotted by everything. there DPS is what allows them to kill something before they can be killed. if u nerf there DPs then they will get owned hard by just about everything lol... and there greatest weakness is HAs since almost all of there skills are physical. they would have to frantically try to DPS passed a barbs charm or a HA BMs charm to kill them. if they cant do it in time they WILL die. there just to squishy. and any magic class can one to 2 hit sins if a sin is reckless and not in stealth.
seriously think about the **** you are saying. or better yet just ****ing play a sin for 10 damn lvls...
No, think about the **** you are saying first. You do not just have DPS. You have stealth and teleport.
What do archers have? Range and 'half-human hind' firing speed? That's ALL we HAVE.
What you have:
Stealth 1
Teleport to target 1
DPS 1.
What we have:
Stealth 0
Teleport to target 0
Range 1
Dps: 0.5
See the difference now?
Use your imaginative brain for a moment to think about reality. HA is not the only problem for you. We HAVE the SAME PROBLEM TOO.
And what makes you think you are supposed to kill everything, including HA?
In fact, you already have like 5 classes to kill. Do you want HA to be added to that list?
Right now, only 2 classes can counter you if you played correctly. Stop saying how gimped you are when in fact, the most important tools have been handed to you on a silver platter.
Further regards to robes, if you are doing correctly, you will be killing them with 90% chance (after variances in gear and point distribution) on the other 5 classes. If you are a sin, you shouldn't be reckless at all and that's is like 62.5% of the classes on the playing field.
In order for a archer to kill, do you know how much refines we have to go through to get 4 digit damage on a robe?
I am pretty sure you do not need 4 digit damage per hit to kill a robe if you played your cards correctly. Coz they can never retaliate against you. If they shrink distance, you can always teleport again.
So now what?
What needs to be done is to prevent sins from getting 5 attk / sec that they cannot replaced BMs. Remove the ability for other classes (especially for sin) to equip bow.
Other than that, their dps is already fine as it is.
Seriously, perhaps all other classes should re-roll as sins so that we will not get replaced?0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »When I did those, i practically only got 1 - 2 hits from 20 mobs that I killed. It's simply a matter of normal x2, knockback and normal till mob dies. End of story.
The point being that I simply dislike fishies talking trash about replacing classes, not simply because they know most of the other classes. It's their ignorance + arrogance that ticks people off.
So what if you can solo a bh-59? I had so much soloing on my veno till i'm sick of that dungeon. It's a personal achievement no doubt. But the point of the game is to work with other classes.
And how do you expect older classes to accept you when you keep trash-talking and degrading them ?
Replacing them is like "hey, you have grinded your lvls for nothing, considered yourself replaced and time wasted on this toon"
On top of that, it's not like PWI really needed the 2 new classes. This un-called arrogance happens with psys, making claims about replacing archers and wizards too.
So if you really wanna work with us, work on your own attitude first. In time to come, we MIGHT have chance to work together IF I see some humility.
I ran with DrizzleQ before, I saw him killing solo. He has handled situations well. But little did I know, those achievements has inflated his ego.
What I can do, has been done by others before me. I'm simply following the path that they have set, so there's no need for bragging, at least for me.
I don't have the inflated ego or attitude you speak of. I'm simply in your shoes, but on the opposite side of the argument. TBH I'm sick of seeing people downgrading assassins and saying they're useless, and I've seen that happen more often than I've seen assassins claiming their superiority over other classes. I might even venture to say that some assassins have made statements that seemed overly self-important because they want to argue against those that have been calling them useless. Maybe they want to explain that assassins do have uses, but due to the emotionality (?) of the debate both sides have trouble understanding what the other is truly saying.
Then again, as I've said before, the vocal majority on the forums have so far been a minority ingame, which is good. The arrogance you speak of (I'd hope) is a minority, so no need to stereotype EVERYONE playing the class as such.. no need to discriminate just because assassins and psychics are new to the game & no one really knows where the fit in best. Wish everyone'd just keep an open mind >.>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »Precisely, as an LA class, archers are pwned by everything, mag or pattk. But the sins have more than enough fire power to turn the tide. What do archers have? As soon as anyone closes up, our damage cuts by half.
The only way is to kite. sins do not need to kite at all. They can tele and attk the target. This is already one way around most things that can kill them.
Adding insult to injury, they have stealth, being the same LA class, I feel severely gimped.
No, think about the **** you are saying first. You do not just have DPS. You have stealth and teleport.
What do archers have? Range and 'half-human hind' firing speed? That's ALL we HAVE.
What you have:
Stealth 1
Teleport to target 1
DPS 1.
What we have:
Stealth 0
Teleport to target 0
Range 1
Dps: 0.5
See the difference now?
Use your imaginative brain for a moment to think about reality. HA is not the only problem for you. We HAVE the SAME PROBLEM TOO.
And what makes you think you are supposed to kill everything, including HA?
In fact, you already have like 5 classes to kill. Do you want HA to be added to that list?
Right now, only 2 classes can counter you if you played correctly. Stop saying how gimped you are when in fact, the most important tools have been handed to you on a silver platter.
Further regards to robes, if you are doing correctly, you will be killing them with 90% chance (after variances in gear and point distribution) on the other 5 classes. If you are a sin, you shouldn't be reckless at all and that's is like 62.5% of the classes on the playing field.
In order for a archer to kill, do you know how much refines we have to go through to get 4 digit damage on a robe?
I am pretty sure you do not need 4 digit damage per hit to kill a robe if you played your cards correctly. Coz they can never retaliate against you. If they shrink distance, you can always teleport again.
So now what?
What needs to be done is to prevent sins from getting 5 attk / sec that they cannot replaced BMs. Remove the ability for other classes (especially for sin) to equip bow.
Other than that, their dps is already fine as it is.
Seriously, perhaps all other classes should re-roll as sins so that we will not get replaced?
I'm sure if people put more thought into countering stealth and swift death, they would find a number of tricks. Genie skills for one, can be used while you're stunned and immobilized (I believe). I haven't fought my share of sins yet, but when I do hit PVP, I do look forward to thinking up ways to counter sins.
As well, this game isn't all about 1 v 1. You land yourself in TW, mass PVP, and you're bound to get hit. Doesn't matter if you're sin, psychic, anyone. You're going to get hit. Being light armor is a severe hinderance in those situations. Not to mention if you get knocked out of stealth by a stray AOE with your skills on cooldown, you're easy target for everyone out there.
I really can't offer more on anti-assassin strategies because I've never fought against one. These are just ideas I've thought up while watching my macroeconomics lecture.
But really, every class has their strengths and their weaknesses. Learn to use what you got, and take advantage of what others don't have. As a non-cash shopper, you gotta know how to play your cards. And you know what? When you do get outclassed in every way possible, there is no shame in that. Pick yourself back up and rethink your strategy. There is no impossible. There is no absolute.
No offense, but really, I'm starting to feel a bit of an inferiority complex coming from you. I've for fun built a lv 99 sin on pwcalc. Sure you might have high DPS, but you've got absolutely **** defenses and HP. The way I see it, in PVP, you're going to have to get in and out fast, or you're going to be an easy target for someone nearby.
All of this, in essence are conjectures. The assassin isn't even a complete class yet, and they haven't been around long enough for all of us to get a good grasp of their abilities.
Before we start naming a class OP, I think we should all take a step back, inhale and exhale deeply, and play the game. Let the class age a bit, and let people mix and mingle a bit more. Once people have a better idea of what they can and can't do, then we can discuss their OPness again.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ephemerai - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't have the inflated ego or attitude you speak of. I'm simply in your shoes, but on the opposite side of the argument. TBH I'm sick of seeing people downgrading assassins and saying they're useless, and I've seen that happen more often than I've seen assassins claiming their superiority over other classes. I might even venture to say that some assassins have made statements that seemed overly self-important because they want to argue against those that have been calling them useless. Maybe they want to explain that assassins do have uses, but due to the emotionality (?) of the debate both sides have trouble understanding what the other is truly saying.
Then again, as I've said before, the vocal majority on the forums have so far been a minority ingame, which is good. The arrogance you speak of (I'd hope) is a minority, so no need to stereotype EVERYONE playing the class as such.. no need to discriminate just because assassins and psychics are new to the game & no one really knows where the fit in best. Wish everyone'd just keep an open mind >.>
There was this time when fishies started encroaching onto the older classes forums and started to lay claims of replacing them.
It was slightly after the new classes are introduced and the forums have just added the 2 new classes to it.
That was the start of of everything.
But allow me to question you:
1. Having the best dps in game, what will it do for you?
In the beginning of this 'war', the vocal ones have already showed themselves as being arrogant. That invoke a lot of hostility in forums, and also in game. Hence most squads do not have fishies as part of the team.
Since they are so elite and epicz, they obviously do not need us. Also, we can do without them, why bow our heads low to endure their attitude? On top of that, there's also a higher chance of squad wipes should the sin failz in his/her classes (most were oracle nubs).
I'm afraid the vocal ones have already done their damage and caused a rift. But the bottomline is that we do not need sins or psys as part of the game.0 -
Asperitas is right.
There's no point about arguing which class is the best, because as far as I've seen, PW has done a terrific job of balancing classes. Sure, we know the strengths and weaknesses (in general) of the "traditional" classes. Just because some of the weaknesses of assassins (since this thread has seemed to focus on assassins for the most part) aren't yet known doesn't mean we don't have any. But on the flip side, we're also not useless.
LA is a huge disad, as multiple people have pointed out. Against HA we're at a bigger disad than archers (from what I've read, and from reasoning) - we have no elemental/magical damage skills to speak of so far, but archers have at least one (or more?). Also come to think of it, if an HA class is buffed with that psychic's +heal buff (the one that slows down charm cooldown), there's probably no way for an assassin to overcome the charm ticks on HA in order to kill the BM/Barb/whatever.
Also, the fact that we're melee is somewhat of a disad considering we're in LA. Sure, we have teleport and tackle and stun, but those things can be negated with genie skills at the very least. IF anything gets any sort of range in on us, we're dead. This will probably happen a lot in things like TW or mass/free for all PK scenarios.
As far as PVE goes, archer range (as mentioned before) is a huge advantage. Anything with a hard hitting AOE = sins dead, or charm tick fest (since clerics tend to focus more on the tank.. unless the cleric BBs, then we get saved a little ><).. while archers can avoid the AOE range because of their bow + added range passive, sins can't. It's either switch to bow (and still get hit by ranged AOEs) and pew pew or head in there knowing full well your chances for survival.
There's really no need to take the option to equip bow away from assassins. In pretty much any circumstance, I'd say it's a bad idea to equip a bow, lol. You can use NONE of your skills (except spark) while equipped with bow. The only times I ever use it or even think of using it is 1) versus melee AOE bosses that hurt like hell or 2) versus those pesky mobs that like to run up walls in 59. At least bow is better than one knife throw every few seconds ><
As far as needing or not -- that'll eventually change, I'd hope. Every class is needed in some way or another, and it'd be senseless for PW to have new classes if they're just going to be outcast or shunned. I'm sure that, if the traditional classes were introduced one after another in a similar manner, similar things would've happened. Maybe not for some classes (like Clerics and Barbs, two of the only more consistent musts in the game), but the new will try to find their place and some of the tactless few will try to say they're better, the old will fight against it and bash on the new, then everything will settle in some sort of equilibrium state.
At least, I hope that's what happens. You feel offended that some of the more egotistical tideborn are saying your class is obsolete (which is never true of any class in a balanced game)? Well, tideborn who chose to play as sins or psychics because it's new and shiny and fun feel the same way when they see people endlessly bashing on their chosen class >.>[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Whew, for a couple pages there, it looked like this thread had a one-way ticket to a padlock.. but you guys turned it around. Nice!
b:victory
-Frankie0 -
Let me assure you that it's not self-inferiority complex. In this fine game, whoever has the gear wins most of the time. Providing that you are not stupid to begin with.
As long as sins get the drop on someone, the outcome is most likely to have been predetermined. No doubt genie skill can overcome that and gives you that slight breathing space. But it can be countered again as long as the sin is smart. Smart players on the field would bring luck and skills into play. But odds are not good for the other party.
As soon as I have read up on the skills of fishies, I have been thinking of strategies for the DD classes I play. But their stuns and teleports are the killers. On top of that, if they ever have triple spark, that is a world of pain for any robes and LA.
Even worse would be sins with 5 attk /s. Nothing can stop them as long as long as you are being kept stunned.
Also this game is not as balanced as you think. Right now, the slight handicap on distance that sins faced could have been negated by teleporting. The only thing that they cannot tank maybe bosses with p attk aoes. But hey, even Rankar has been tanked before. What's new?
Anway, it pointless to debate on whether fishies have their purpose in the game.0 -
b:victory
now back to economics
b:cry[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Asperitas - Lost City wrote: »b:victory
now back to economics
b:cry
Gear s are gonna be more expensive. 500k per gold happened on HT.0
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