Squading Assassin
Comments
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actually we can cause we avoid dmg more than archers and mag dmg is no prob either since we avoid it aswell....and trust me its pretty much...and one shotting isn't a problem cause our skill deaden nerves gives us one more chance after beeing killed so we survive longer than an archer...and i played an archer before so i'm not that uninformed about them(over lvl 80)You need to learn to play an arch then. I can easily take aggro from similar level bosses and live long enough for a full party rez. And the bosses that I can't live through (1-2 shots me)... no sin can live through that either
and again it shows that u have no clue about this class...pls refrain from posting here (maybe u just think ur all high and mighty cause u got to lvl 101, but dunno)the sins are just dds with a few stuns0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »
You need to learn to play an arch then. I can easily take aggro from similar level bosses and live long enough for a full party rez. And the bosses that I can't live through (1-2 shots me)... no sin can live through that either.
Sorry i forgot my avitar is an archer, yes as archer i can kite boss long enough to give cleric time to reorganize squad, i was talking about my sin.It is better to remain silent and be thought the fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.0 -
OP, youve failed to address how a party would do better following your advice. Sins can't pull, they can only get through other mobs with their stealth... and really i've seen no example of a guardian where it would be convenient to do this, certainly not in fb51. And if someone aciidentally gets in the aggro range of a boss you're sneaking past, is best for party to engage and save whoever's being targetted before the sin gets aggro and takes the threat away. If done your way you're just asking people to stand back while squishies get slaughtered as you try to play hero... And really other classes shouldn't gimp their playstyle just so you have a chance to save the day. Even venos get a couple of stuns you know... and you don't see us making threads about how people should let our pets tank and save themselves repair bills.0
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MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »OP, youve failed to address how a party would do better following your advice. Sins can't pull, they can only get through other mobs with their stealth... and really i've seen no example of a guardian where it would be convenient to do this, certainly not in fb51. And if someone aciidentally gets in the aggro range of a boss you're sneaking past, is best for party to engage and save whoever's being targetted before the sin gets aggro and takes the threat away. If done your way you're just asking people to stand back while squishies get slaughtered as you try to play hero... And really other classes shouldn't gimp their playstyle just so you have a chance to save the day. Even venos get a couple of stuns you know... and you don't see us making threads about how people should let our pets tank and save themselves repair bills.
No, but you do see people replying to the OP's post saying that they won't invite assassins because of what they are. I'm sorry but in my book that's discrimination. Basically what is being said is "You a sin, we don't want you here." Assassins have every right to a bh run just like any other class. Those of you who think otherwise are sadistic, petty *******s and a pathetic excuse for a player.0 -
well i dont know about this but my only xp whit sin is he die alot when trying to "save" the squad and always try to take aggro from tanker, trying to play hero and try to tank as well, and that always got themself killed
and i also HATE when they look them self so godly and just run around the mobs and dont do ****t, i have run bh whit some sin doing that but some are also nice!!!
but i have dual a higer lvl sin then me ( 3 lvl higer ), he sleep me or somethink like that (dont know what skil they have), hit me for some time ( not even 1/4 of my hp) then i one shot him whit Bashb:shocked0 -
Anyone with a zeal genie can lure a mob, not just Veno's. I do it whenever my BH squad cant find a veno. As for the Fushma door gaurdian, ill usually just stealth an kill him while the rest of the party moves on to clear the way to Rankar/Wyvern (Im usually done with him before other ppl can get to him and start hitting him). The Rankar door garudain, we can get right next to him, and lock him in place so the rest of the party can start atking him. As for a squishy chars running from aggro'd mobs, it makes it kinda difficult to tele/stun those mobs while youre running, UNLESS the mob is moving toward us. I dont agree with the OPs thing on luring bosses away, but thats just me. What i try to do is keep Ribstrike/Puncture on the boss as much as i can. Ill generally wait till the boss is down to about 80% hp to start sparking and using other skills. From my experience with my sin, we're meant to be used to make things easier for others. Playing a Sin in a squad requires, repeat, Requires putting your pride in your crits/DPS/whatever aside and helping out. We arent meant to be the tank in a squad, we're meant to be strictly melee debuff/DD. And yah, i have been kicked from BH squads because im a Sin.
To those high lvls who are basing their ENTIRE opinion of Sins from the few high lvl (85+) Sins they've seen, ive this to say: Really? Youre going to base your opinion of an entire class on a few Oracle noobs? Do everyone a favor, pull your head outta your ****, and grow up. Doing that is would be just like looking at what a rapper says, and assuming that all black ppl are like him, or looking at a person of Middle Eastern descent, and assuming he/she is a terrorist, just cause you saw one on the news. Just because a few Sins are stupid, ignorant Oracle noobs, doesnt make all of us that way.
There, my rants over. If i stepped on any toes, Im sorry. I do think a lotta ppl on this forum oughta grow up a little bit. (Not that it'll ever happen.)0 -
assassins....ability to lock be...scary
DX
me fought me friends assassin (former BM) and he locked me in place for nearly a full 10 seconds (mayhaps more) (and me didn't have me anti stun genie equipped just me travel genie.)
although me did kill him since me had like a 20 level advantage on him.
(>.<)'
still being attacked for a full 10 seconds is pretty painful.
X_X'
srsly seems like they can lock as well as a BM can
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Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
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Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
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1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
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BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear wrote: »actually we can cause we avoid dmg more than archers and mag dmg is no prob either since we avoid it aswell....and trust me its pretty much...and one shotting isn't a problem cause our skill deaden nerves gives us one more chance after beeing killed so we survive longer than an archer...and i played an archer before so i'm not that uninformed about them(over lvl 80)
and again it shows that u have no clue about this class...pls refrain from posting here (maybe u just think ur all high and mighty cause u got to lvl 101, but dunno)
lol... until you can figure out how to active that avoid dmg **** 100% of the time... it mean ****. i rather have reliable skill such as decrease dmg taken then a chance of avoiding dmg when it comes to buying time. and that nerve skill... it still loses aggro. yea... you might not be dead when that skill is active... but you also won't have aggro... little good does that do. a lot of things sound good on paper... but until you actually apply it... its only paper and ink.
i might not be high and mighty compare to others... but compare to you... i am all that and more. i seen sins trying to kite bosses and ended up on the ground. and i also have seen the all powerful stealth sin pull and end up on the ground.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
When im dueling someone, ill just lock them in place, Ribstrike, Puncture, and Sleep em, then let the bleeding go to work. xD Tho that doesnt work so well on BMs and Barbs, our skills hit kinda hard, but damn their HA..........0
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OMG!!!!!!!! SO SINS are the Crapiest class now?? The ones nobody want's in Squads?? OMG! !!!!!!!!! ---- stops leveling up sin---- b:shocked --starts building 1 almighty wizzard--0
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No, we arent the crappiest class, there IS NO crappiest class. Its just that some of the older classes (not all of the players of those classes, just a few) resent the new classes, and so try to act all high and mighty whenever someone trys to say something about them. They'll say all Sins/Psychs are Oracle Noobs or something to that effect, without ever rolling one. One thing ive learned in my year and a half playing this game, is that lvl doesnt equal ability. Tho some ppl in this game have yet to figure that out..........0
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Nolasa - Dreamweaver wrote: »
To those high lvls who are basing their ENTIRE opinion of Sins from the few high lvl (85+) Sins they've seen, ive this to say: Really? Youre going to base your opinion of an entire class on a few Oracle noobs? Do everyone a favor, pull your head outta your ****, and grow up. Doing that is would be just like looking at what a rapper says, and assuming that all black ppl are like him, or looking at a person of Middle Eastern descent, and assuming he/she is a terrorist, just cause you saw one on the news. Just because a few Sins are stupid, ignorant Oracle noobs, doesnt make all of us that way.
if a level 50 poster can have a level 105 in game alt. then i am pretty sure my posting 101 can have a level 50 alt. i am basing my opinion of sins from my former level 1 sin all the way to an pre-9x sin that i partied with. now let me ask you this... whats the level range that you draw your opinion from?
i have yet to use a single oracle/fruit on either of my 2 sins. and both of them have the financial/gear/skill backing from my level 101 archer. so its pretty safe to say that both of them are better geared and organized and your run of the mill sins. while i might not have the levels of an oracle user... i have my fair share of sins in instances. and my conclusion is that while sins have more stuns then my arch. its a light armor melee puts it at a huge disadvantage toward aoe mobs. and i really foresee that being a problem in the later stages of tt/fb when half of the boss sleep and the other half have strong short range aoe.
and i agree there is a single instance in fb51 where the sin could possiblely save a few minutes... in the vast majority of the sitution... a bm vastly outweights the sin in usefulness. and fyi... that guardian behind that tower **** isn't really a problem since my archer always walk over and kill him and walk back without aggroing a single other mob.
and congrad on trying to call me a hypocrite. but aren't you the hypocrite... automatically assume that i have 0 experience with sins... and the only 1s i have contact is oracle noobs.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear wrote: »actually we can cause we avoid dmg more than archers and mag dmg is no prob either since we avoid it aswell....and trust me its pretty much...and one shotting isn't a problem cause our skill deaden nerves gives us one more chance after beeing killed so we survive longer than an archer...and i played an archer before so i'm not that uninformed about them(over lvl 80)
and again it shows that u have no clue about this class...pls refrain from posting here (maybe u just think ur all high and mighty cause u got to lvl 101, but dunno)
how do you figure you can avoid more damage than an archer? you both wear the same armor and both stat the same way. also its not possible to avoid magic damage. magic is 100% hit rate. your only advantage is if you have deaden nerves active you get 1 free death.
maybe you should please refrain from posting seeing as you are sort of clueless and way too combative over constructive criticism. you just started attacking everyone who disagreed with you instead of trying to understand their points which are most likely much more valid than yours.
its also a complete joke to think its a big deal that you can stealth to the guardian mob in 51 and kill it any better than another class. wow you can (possibly) bypass a few patrol mobs which any intelligent person will take out anyways so they dont sneak up on you later. every guard mob can be walked to (unstealth) by any class without having to kill any extra mobs and they can kill them much easier than you can.0 -
Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »how do you figure you can avoid more damage than an archer? you both wear the same armor and both stat the same way. also its not possible to avoid magic damage. magic is 100% hit rate. your only advantage is if you have deaden nerves active you get 1 free death.
maybe you should please refrain from posting seeing as you are sort of clueless and way too combative over constructive criticism. you just started attacking everyone who disagreed with you instead of trying to understand their points which are most likely much more valid than yours.
actually... i think he means that 1 skill that gives a % chance to avoid attacks. so bascially every time he tanks he'll be praying to whatever god he prays to in hopes of avoiding a hit. while arch's wing gives 100% dmg resist for 3 seconds and dmg reduction after that.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »actually... i think he means that 1 skill that gives a % chance to avoid attacks. so bascially every time he tanks he'll be praying to whatever god he prays to in hopes of avoiding a hit. while arch's wing gives 100% dmg resist for 3 seconds and dmg reduction after that.
if thats what he is talking about all i have to say is...
LOL no comment.0 -
Yeah... The only way for you to "avoid" magic damage is Deaden Nerves, which I have to say is VERY annoying. Other than that, Sins are pretty squishy. Very weak against magic too.
Without Deaden Nerves, it takes me like 2, 3 spells tops to kill a Sin my level or even a few levels higher.Risingson - 7x Psychic
Indalecio - 3x Cleric0 -
Risingson - Lost City wrote: »Yeah... The only way for you to "avoid" magic damage is Deaden Nerves, which I have to say is VERY annoying. Other than that, Sins are pretty squishy. Very weak against magic too.
Without Deaden Nerves, it takes me like 2, 3 spells tops to kill a Sin my level or even a few levels higher.
nerve is more less a joke... unless his charm tick right when it activates... hes just another shot away from hitting the ground. the only thing that it accomplishes is to **** me off cause i just wasted another freaking arrow. i mean dude... those arrows are expensive.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »if a level 50 poster can have a level 105 in game alt. then i am pretty sure my posting 101 can have a level 50 alt. i am basing my opinion of sins from my former level 1 sin all the way to an pre-9x sin that i partied with. now let me ask you this... whats the level range that you draw your opinion from?
i have yet to use a single oracle/fruit on either of my 2 sins. and both of them have the financial/gear/skill backing from my level 101 archer. so its pretty safe to say that both of them are better geared and organized and your run of the mill sins. while i might not have the levels of an oracle user... i have my fair share of sins in instances. and my conclusion is that while sins have more stuns then my arch. its a light armor melee puts it at a huge disadvantage toward aoe mobs. and i really foresee that being a problem in the later stages of tt/fb when half of the boss sleep and the other half have strong short range aoe.
and i agree there is a single instance in fb51 where the sin could possiblely save a few minutes... in the vast majority of the sitution... a bm vastly outweights the sin in usefulness. and fyi... that guardian behind that tower **** isn't really a problem since my archer always walk over and kill him and walk back without aggroing a single other mob.
and congrad on trying to call me a hypocrite. but aren't you the hypocrite... automatically assume that i have 0 experience with sins... and the only 1s i have contact is oracle noobs.
Well just keep your mind open about sins cause they still aren't a finished class yet. Sure you might know a lvl 90 sin and seen it in action, but does he have his demon/sage skills yet? Cause they can make or break a class0 -
Now first of all to the OP u made maybe a few valid points about the sins but,
1. Sadly as stated by many. guardians are really no big deal&isn't worth much bh51 aside [can save a min or two, if u were well geared&knew what ur doing] but still is a risk that a squad shouldn't take should there be a better alternative .
2. I think u make a point here that ppl didn't pay attention to, if even slightly practical, as I can take it u ment if a boss was aggroed Pre expected for instance in bh51, fushy&rankar walking around. a squad not be ready if they are already busy clearing walkers/mobs .. etc, so in this rare case yah sin can take aggro in one shot skill&lure the boss away&stealth him off .. but infact if ur squad was to be in any boss's walking path unprepaired, then that's a head on squad wipe warning
.. so maybe even then with good gear,pots or what ever u need u can give the squad a chance but it's not suppose to happen if squad knows what they're doing .
3. Again u make a poor point with poor explaining, for the fact is more simple than that, for if a squishy wiz,psy .. whatever aggros a mob they can't deal with or even aggro by mistake .. sin can sure stun luck or tele on their heads but, it becomes a only wise for the squishy to run, cuz he/she can't tell if u are going to use ur skills, or even have spark/cd counting or what not, so it's only natural they do .
4. And I add Yes, lots of the pwi community has been avoiding squads with sins, but infact u can't really blame them, cuz if I take a wild shot say 80% of current decent lvled sins, will act heroic if not instructed otherwise&while they may at some times Do save the day at many others they'll cause the worst .. but until the ppl get to know sins better, it's either they don't squad sins .. or simply make it clear not to act outside squad(cuz frankly any class acting solo usally ends up **** their squads)it's just the thrill of the new classes that make sin mistakes more noticeable&even more likely to since they're still new .I myself may have caused my fair share of trouble, trying out dif sin tactics .. but I did learn eventually that u can't make somebody's bh ur experiment field .. not fair to them, urself or even the whole class reputation being new
That being said ..Sins RULE, stealth is cool alright, if yet usless somewhat .. I think I said too much but that's the whole deal b:victory0 -
Basch - Lost City wrote: »No, but you do see people replying to the OP's post saying that they won't invite assassins because of what they are. I'm sorry but in my book that's discrimination. Basically what is being said is "You a sin, we don't want you here." Assassins have every right to a bh run just like any other class. Those of you who think otherwise are sadistic, petty *******s and a pathetic excuse for a player.
And why would you single me out for a response when i've said no such thing as you refer to in your post? Get over yourself man. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights. Being on a bh squad its not even something you have to do, and i've never seen any duty to squad anyone on the ToS. I guess any party looking for a cleric or barb is just made up of biggots...
The OP's point doesn't even revolve about wether sins are unjustly left out of squads, nor about their usefulness. Far from that, it's a petty and self serving discourse about how other classes should play in a way as to give his class the starring role. And it fails even at that due to his flimsy reasoning.
This isn't old classes vs sins. It's about how to more efficiently play with other classes and the OP's possition, as well as the tone in which he expressed himself, is a disservice to good players exploring their sin's capabilities. I myself never refuse to squad any class if the basic squad's needs are met. This doesn't mean i can't engage in a discussion about the relative merits of squading different playstyles. What i wouldn't do, and this is not prejudice, is squad more than once with a player that expects the group to accomodate him. Teamwork is about accomplishing a goal in a fast, effective way, not about indulging self gratifying prepubescent delusions.0 -
I think you read just a bit to far into what I said. I did not single out your post. I merely stated that a previous postee had said that they would not invite an assassin because of such a reason as some sins are arrogant. Not all are arrogant but grouping all sins into such a category is saying the same thing as males play venos, therefore all venos are assumed to be played by males. The OP basically brought to the front the very issues as to why some people won't squad assassins. And its more or less a pathetic excuse for people to keep from having to deal with learning to work with a new class and that classes abilities.0
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Basch - Lost City wrote: »I think you read just a bit to far into what I said. I did not single out your post. I merely stated that a previous postee had said that they would not invite an assassin because of such a reason as some sins are arrogant. Not all are arrogant but grouping all sins into such a category is saying the same thing as males play venos, therefore all venos are assumed to be played by males. The OP basically brought to the front the very issues as to why some people won't squad assassins. And its more or less a pathetic excuse for people to keep from having to deal with learning to work with a new class and that classes abilities.
Actually without squading with new classes, we got along pretty well. Because we know what to expect and how to cope with situations....b:victory
Humans are creatures of familiarity. We do what we are comfortable with. Well, if I have a choice, I would run with classes that I know.
Not some arrogant sin who can claim to out-dps an archer and mage. It just seems the brains did not fit well with that particular sin.
FYI, I can pull aggro anytime if I want as an archer. I did it last night from a BM and a sin. It was wrong. But I was feeling tired after a day's work. b:victory0 -
Well I'm not going to comment on the rest of the thread but to say there's some truly wrong ideas from both sides here.
I level with a sin, have done since level 17 or so and find him to be the perfect levelling partner. It helps that he knows what he's doing of course and I think that is one of the biggest issues in regards to the attitudes when squadding with sins. It's pretty much pot luck if you get a good one or not. Hope you do, damned if you don't, because I've also been in BH's with unknown sins and some of them think they're the bees knees. Usually ends badly, for him/her or the rest of the squad.
It's all about team play and to be honest who can hit hardest shouldn't even come into it in a squad situation. Stay together, assist the tank and don't take aggro. Easy as pie really IF you're playing for the team.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The other Shay's --> Shaylis 66 Wiz ~ Shaylista 46 Veno ~ Shaylari 31 Psy0 -
LOL i dont even see why people argue about sins and BHs in the first place.
Who ever answers first and pay their part of the wine fee gets in. If its unwined - who ever can hurry the hell up and get there asap gets in. No one normally gives a **** if its a sin/wiz/veno/bm whatever they wanna get the BHs going cuz its 2 more waiting...
Never meet anyone in my life that actually cares what classes u invite, as long as you have some sort of tank + cleric rest of party is random. People that dont wanna give 5 mats of each and starts making excuses and wants to get of cheaper is a far bigger concern than who is the best DD, who can grab a boss or if a sin can lure a stupid guard or not zzzzzz0 -
Shayisha - Heavens Tear wrote: »Well I'm not going to comment on the rest of the thread but to say there's some truly wrong ideas from both sides here.
I level with a sin, have done since level 17 or so and find him to be the perfect levelling partner. It helps that he knows what he's doing of course and I think that is one of the biggest issues in regards to the attitudes when squadding with sins. It's pretty much pot luck if you get a good one or not. Hope you do, damned if you don't, because I've also been in BH's with unknown sins and some of them think they're the bees knees. Usually ends badly, for him/her or the rest of the squad.
It's all about team play and to be honest who can hit hardest shouldn't even come into it in a squad situation. Stay together, assist the tank and don't take aggro. Easy as pie really IF you're playing for the team.
You are right. It's pretty much pot luck. Most sins and psys that I have seen, are the worst of the lot. But it gets better at high levels as they are not much of them there.
I find myself still enjoying Bh runs with old classes. It's safer when everyone knows what to expect.
Due t bad experiences with psys and sins met at lower levels, I have a tendency not to have them in my squad make up. Giving chance to any of them is a gamble which I am not prepared to make. b:victory0 -
Lowbie Wizards =
nearly finished evolving wizard =
20% crit.
b:shockeddarthpanda16: Firefox crashed on me. Aryannamage: I don't think I am a GM that would be new.
Hawk:Do this. closing thread
frankieraye: I'll see if we can replace the woman with a stick figure and the tiger fangs with marshmallows.//Issues like these need to get escalated quickly to minimize the damage.
Kantorek: Yeah.. you should try it. It's awesome.
Sihndra: Nope- not currently possible under any circumstances. Sorry.
LokisDottir: I mean...not haunting the forums, nope nope..
Konariraiden: You don't know what you are up against. You will lose.
Waiting for...Hamster Packs!
58% chance to get tokens
41% chance to get an all class pet hamster....but they has already been freed by the magic hamster.
1% chance to get ban hamstered with the message "Hamsters United!"
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
MagicHamsta - Lost City wrote: »
20% crit.
b:shocked
One crit and the sin (who claims he can outdamage a wiz and archers) says 'GG'0 -
FanFon - Dreamweaver wrote: »Well just keep your mind open about sins cause they still aren't a finished class yet. Sure you might know a lvl 90 sin and seen it in action, but does he have his demon/sage skills yet? Cause they can make or break a class
lvl 11 skills doesn't make or break the class. i was tanking/luring/kiting bosses long before i got my 11 skills. in fact... all the skills that i currently use when taking dmg from boss isn't lvl 11 at all.1. If I kill you; do something about it yourself, don't go complaining to my wife.
2. If you have less kill counts then me, don't expect me to take pk advice from you.
3. If you are hiding behind an alt, don't expect me to acknowledge your existence.
Tokichiro - Heavy Armor Fish / Kiyoshi - Dual Blade Elf0 -
Kiyoshi - Heavens Tear wrote: »lvl 11 skills doesn't make or break the class. i was tanking/luring/kiting bosses long before i got my 11 skills. in fact... all the skills that i currently use when taking dmg from boss isn't lvl 11 at all.
That's right. We archers have been forced to kite since early days of our career... so it's just another skill that we must have.
sins doesn't need lvl 11 skills to be effective. It's the person behind that makes or breaks the sin.0 -
So much assassin/general tideborn hate... why? b:cry
Just because we're the new fish in the sea doesn't mean you shouldn't give us a chance b:surrender
To hell with this thread. Assassin is fun. End of discussion for me =D
Anyways, assassins can be useful or they can mean party wipe... same thing with ANY class, traditional or otherwise. It's not the character, but the player that makes the difference. And give it time.. it takes time to learn how to use your skills to your (and your party's) best advantage.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
![http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh111/lord-leo7th/SilversMoonsig.png[/SIGPIC]](http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh111/lord-leo7th/SilversMoonsig.png[/SIGPIC]){kind=link}
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