Squading Assassin

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Killahoe - Harshlands wrote: »

A lot of stupid people in this thread.

Nothing needs to proven with a vid or ss, a sin with equal gear of a fist bm/archer will have higher dps, fact.

Do the math for your self or check out the thread in the sin forum if you carnt.

Even with the 3.33 aps(no spark) a sin is probably highest dps.

Now as for the sin is useless part, just lol.

I tanked most of my bh's up to bh 51 where i couldnt do wyvern coz of the nasty debuff.My hp was lacking for this coz i stacked garnets in armour slots instead of citrines.

Now im in bh 59 and tanking the bosses is possible with charm event and apo pots, but i just let the barb do his job and hold back on dps and use debuffs.

There is a big difference between being useless and not realy needed.

Would you call a cleric and barb in hh3-1 usless? They arent realy needed coz a herc can do there job.

It all comes down to that play style and gear of the sin.

People that have been in squad with me on bh's more often than not have added me to fl and i get spammed to do stuff all time.

I also have been in squads with other sins that were in awe of what i could do.

eg i had a squad of 4 sins 1 barb and 1 bm on bh 51 fushma.We got to the the boss fairly easily.I had a bet with the whole squad that if anyone died on fushma i would pay them 100k.All went smooth i kept agro the whole time used a few event pots, 2 or 3 charm ticks , and spark to keep my hp up.Gotta love blood paint with high dps.

So please dont say sins are usless.

Yeah... congrates and you do not need other classes for your BH as you can SOLO it without problem with pots, event pots?

Yeah, with that type of dps, you are a tank + DD , so what do you need other classes for?

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Killahoe - Harshlands wrote: »

A lot of stupid people in this thread.

Nothing needs to proven with a vid or ss, a sin with equal gear of a fist bm/archer will have higher dps, fact.

Do the math for your self or check out the thread in the sin forum if you carnt.

Even with the 3.33 aps(no spark) a sin is probably highest dps.

Now as for the sin is useless part, just lol.

I tanked most of my bh's up to bh 51 where i couldnt do wyvern coz of the nasty debuff.My hp was lacking for this coz i stacked garnets in armour slots instead of citrines.

Now im in bh 59 and tanking the bosses is possible with charm event and apo pots, but i just let the barb do his job and hold back on dps and use debuffs.

There is a big difference between being useless and not realy needed.

Would you call a cleric and barb in hh3-1 usless? They arent realy needed coz a herc can do there job.

It all comes down to that play style and gear of the sin.

People that have been in squad with me on bh's more often than not have added me to fl and i get spammed to do stuff all time.

I also have been in squads with other sins that were in awe of what i could do.

eg i had a squad of 4 sins 1 barb and 1 bm on bh 51 fushma.We got to the the boss fairly easily.I had a bet with the whole squad that if anyone died on fushma i would pay them 100k.All went smooth i kept agro the whole time used a few event pots, 2 or 3 charm ticks , and spark to keep my hp up.Gotta love blood paint with high dps.

So please dont say sins are usless.

So, in other words, a sin's damage is so high that it will beat a fist BM with the same gear, even if said BM uses demon spark?

Wow, just wow. Really, like someone said before it is up to the people making claims to prove them. Apparently you expect us to forego evidence and just take your word for it cuz you're so uber pro. I'm glad sins came out so you can stop struggling with a fail class like archer...

And you guys can also tank with your uberskills in LA, no need for aggro holding since your dps is so high the rest of the squad might as well afk out the half a minute it takes you to put down a boss.

Once again, no one is saying sins are useless.

This is about ludicrous, ridiculous claims. So you were in a squad with a BM and a Barb and decided to tank, how cute. And you had no need for a cleric. Why don't you try Wyvern like that, i mean really, i can tank both Fush and Rankar with my shaodu cub...

The thing that makes you useful to a squad is efficiency. This means both speed and safety. Any class can very likely solo fush at 6x, the reason they don't is time and cost. Claims about how OP you're as a class don't make people more likely to squad you, rather the opposite. How much dps can you effectively handle without stealing aggro from a barb? Or do i take it that you've now become the new tanking class? Wizzies and archers usually learn aggro control the hard way, that's what makes them useful to a squad. Now let's hear what people like you have been saying throughout this thread.

Sins have the highest dps in game (makes wizzies and archers useless)
Sins can pull using stealth (that's it for us venos i guess, since it's been pointed out you can also debuff)
Sins can tank on their own (from you, there go both barbs and clerics since a single player can now handle the job of two)
Sins outperform BMs (pretty much the recuring argument and the final nail on the coffin of traditional classes)

Now, since sins are the only class needed i guess the rest of us should only play a support role (pretty much where the OP was coming from) and be grateful we're allowed to bask in the uberness of your class, which to you is a fact will conquer both PvE and PvP.

The actual reason sins are not wanted in squads is the attitude of the people playing them. This attitude leads to party wipes, which apparently is the one thing sins can't handle (although thanks to stealth they can survive it). I won't take someone like you in my squad, whatever your class. What makes a squad work is everyone knowing how to handle what is expected of them, not wether they could take on someone else's job. I've seen sins steal aggro and demand clerics to heal them far too often.

There's not a class in this game that hasn't got someone who can tell stories of how they saved the day. If you want to make a claim back it up with either evidence (video, screenies) or go through the trouble of actually doing the math and prove it with numbers we can all verify. Otherwise you're just wasting our time.

Edit; What is the point of all this? Are you trying to get those of us unwilling to play chars that look like pervie panting hunchbacks all up in arms and demand a nerf for your class?

Giodia - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, in other words, a sin's damage is so high that it will beat a fist BM with the same gear, even if said BM uses demon spark?

Wow, just wow. Really, like someone said before it is up to the people making claims to prove them. Apparently you expect us to forego evidence and just take your word for it cuz you're so uber pro. I'm glad sins came out so you can stop struggling with a fail class like archer...

And you guys can also tank with your uberskills in LA, no need for aggro holding since your dps is so high the rest of the squad might as well afk out the half a minute it takes you to put down a boss.

Once again, no one is saying sins are useless.

This is about ludicrous, ridiculous claims. So you were in a squad with a BM and a Barb and decided to tank, how cute. And you had no need for a cleric. Why don't you try Wyvern like that, i mean really, i can tank both Fush and Rankar with my shaodu cub...

The thing that makes you useful to a squad is efficiency. This means both speed and safety. Any class can very likely solo fush at 6x, the reason they don't is time and cost. Claims about how OP you're as a class don't make people more likely to squad you, rather the opposite. How much dps can you effectively handle without stealing aggro from a barb? Or do i take it that you've now become the new tanking class? Wizzies and archers usually learn aggro control the hard way, that's what makes them useful to a squad. Now let's hear what people like you have been saying throughout this thread.

Sins have the highest dps in game (makes wizzies and archers useless)
Sins can pull using stealth (that's it for us venos i guess, since it's been pointed out you can also debuff)
Sins can tank on their own (from you, there go both barbs and clerics since a single player can now handle the job of two)
Sins outperform BMs (pretty much the recuring argument and the final nail on the coffin of traditional classes)

Now, since sins are the only class needed i guess the rest of us should only play a support role (pretty much where the OP was coming from) and be grateful we're allowed to bask in the uberness of your class, which to you is a fact will conquer both PvE and PvP.

The actual reason sins are not wanted in squads is the attitude of the people playing them. This attitude leads to party wipes, which apparently is the one thing sins can't handle (although thanks to stealth they can survive it). I won't take someone like you in my squad, whatever your class. What makes a squad work is everyone knowing how to handle what is expected of them, not wether they could take on someone else's job. I've seen sins steal aggro and demand clerics to heal them far too often.

There's not a class in this game that hasn't got someone who can tell stories of how they saved the day. If you want to make a claim back it up with either evidence (video, screenies) or go through the trouble of actually doing the math and prove it with numbers we can all verify. Otherwise you're just wasting our time with your stupidity.

As an Archer, I have known to pull aggro within 6 shots, so estimating that sins can do 6 shots in 2 secs, I would say within 3 secs is not something impossible for the sins to pull aggro (if sparked).

Also, it would depend highly on the Tanker's damage and aggro holding ability, percentage of mobs HP left (dependant on tanker's damage).

I have encountered sin that knows what they are doing and able to react with appropriate measures. But these are far and in-between.

With sage and demon sparks, would sins and psychics replacing all old classes would be my question.

Since psys can heal at times, buff the sin, while the sin tank and DD + lure, so are the old classes effectively replaced by then?

And also, how will the PVP scene be? sins are already darn good at backstabbing, would they eventually rule the pvp scene with psys trailing at second?

Slashreaver - Heavens Tear

i did not know sins could stealth out of argo on a boss. the more you know heh.

but i never cought argo myself so i never had to attempt it.

Killahoe - Harshlands

Giodia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Yeah... congrates and you do not need other classes for your BH as you can SOLO it without problem with pots, event pots?

Yeah, with that type of dps, you are a tank + DD , so what do you need other classes for?

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

So, in other words, a sin's damage is so high that it will beat a fist BM with the same gear, even if said BM uses demon spark?

Wow, just wow. Really, like someone said before it is up to the people making claims to prove them. Apparently you expect us to forego evidence and just take your word for it cuz you're so uber pro. I'm glad sins came out so you can stop struggling with a fail class like archer...

And you guys can also tank with your uberskills in LA, no need for aggro holding since your dps is so high the rest of the squad might as well afk out the half a minute it takes you to put down a boss.

Once again, no one is saying sins are useless.

This is about ludicrous, ridiculous claims. So you were in a squad with a BM and a Barb and decided to tank, how cute. And you had no need for a cleric. Why don't you try Wyvern like that, i mean really, i can tank both Fush and Rankar with my shaodu cub...

The thing that makes you useful to a squad is efficiency. This means both speed and safety. Any class can very likely solo fush at 6x, the reason they don't is time and cost. Claims about how OP you're as a class don't make people more likely to squad you, rather the opposite. How much dps can you effectively handle without stealing aggro from a barb? Or do i take it that you've now become the new tanking class? Wizzies and archers usually learn aggro control the hard way, that's what makes them useful to a squad. Now let's hear what people like you have been saying throughout this thread.

Sins have the highest dps in game (makes wizzies and archers useless)
Sins can pull using stealth (that's it for us venos i guess, since it's been pointed out you can also debuff)
Sins can tank on their own (from you, there go both barbs and clerics since a single player can now handle the job of two)
Sins outperform BMs (pretty much the recuring argument and the final nail on the coffin of traditional classes)

Now, since sins are the only class needed i guess the rest of us should only play a support role (pretty much where the OP was coming from) and be grateful we're allowed to bask in the uberness of your class, which to you is a fact will conquer both PvE and PvP.

The actual reason sins are not wanted in squads is the attitude of the people playing them. This attitude leads to party wipes, which apparently is the one thing sins can't handle (although thanks to stealth they can survive it). I won't take someone like you in my squad, whatever your class. What makes a squad work is everyone knowing how to handle what is expected of them, not wether they could take on someone else's job. I've seen sins steal aggro and demand clerics to heal them far too often.

There's not a class in this game that hasn't got someone who can tell stories of how they saved the day. If you want to make a claim back it up with either evidence (video, screenies) or go through the trouble of actually doing the math and prove it with numbers we can all verify. Otherwise you're just wasting our time.

Edit; What is the point of all this? Are you trying to get those of us unwilling to play chars that look like pervie panting hunchbacks all up in arms and demand a nerf for your class?

When did i say any of this?

Oh you must of thought my very first sentance was refering to you.

And you were right.

MANray_ - Sanctuary

Killahoe - Harshlands wrote: »

When did i say any of this?

Oh you must of thought my very first sentance was refering to you.

And you were right.

OOooh! What a comeback! Did you or did you not claim that a sin could outdps a bm using the same gear? You did make a point of saying it could be done regardless of sparks... Did or did you not relate an anecdote about tanking fush without a cleric? I've attributed nothing else to you except for the apparent rotten attitude. You're someone who likes to comment on stupidity without being able to quote yourself, much less someone else.

L2read noob.

Vorawrcious - Harshlands

Elviron - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Hmm whats the role of any DDer in a squad with a tank and cleric. All of them in one or the other needs to ensure the cleric and tank are safe. Its that simple really. it doesnt matter what class youre or what skills you got. In the end all that really matters is that everyone makes it through alive.

Assassin job in BH is to follow the barbs lead and help intercept any mob heading to attack a cleric. Same with most classes.

I would say the only times a BH squads puts themselves in danger is when they get ahead of me or decide to take a different route. Not sure if i really have large enough sample group of players to make assuptions about roles. But from my experience, Venos and Assassins are the worst offenders in this regard.

Topic is Assassins so i tell one tale about Assassin. I was about lvl 64 -66 i think. Assassin was a lvl above me and he wanted to tank Rankar. His reasoning was that he should tank Rankar cause he is going to steal aggro anyway.

My response was, it's up to cleric. He/she can pick and heal who they want to tank it. I was interested in seeing what would happen if assassing tried to tank Rankar.

Well, from that point it was dithering and heehawing around for several minutes over who should tank. Cleric didnt want to say anything either way and i saw we were getting nowhere fast. Finally i just declared , "Jokes over assassin, just heal me cleric im going in."

It was a FF/BH at once and the tabber died from the boss AOE and kept trying to rez by boss and dieng again so i ran to pull boss away. Assassin stole aggro when i tried to drag boss away from the player that died from AOE. Then all he could do was declare how he told us so.

Could a lvl 66 Assassin tank Rankar? He seemed to think he could. I really didnt want him expirimenting with our time and XP at risk. I was a sure thing, tried and test to tank Rankar. Why not go with sure thing, and the standard, that barb is best tank, when level are colse to same.

EDIT: Almost forgot to address OP points.

1. To kill guardian in BH 51 veno, BM or secondary Barb would do the job better. But if he wants kill door opener i doubt anyone would ague with him. Feel free buddy.

2. If boss goes astray whats stopping him from trying to get aggro. Feel free buddy.

3. You want to stun mobs? who is stopping you. Feel free buddy.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Vorawrcious - Harshlands wrote: »

...

Could a lvl 66 Assassin tank Rankar? He seemed to think he could. I really didnt want him expirimenting with our time and XP at risk. I was a sure thing, tried and test to tank Rankar. Why not go with sure thing, and the standard, that barb is best tank, when level are colse to same.

Yes. No one wants to die of being an experiment to someone's claims.

What if it was just a lucky shot that he barely managed to survive rankar's bad AOE?

What if in actual fact he couldn't really tank rankar (gear and HP dependant) and just wanted to experiment which will eventually lead to the wiping of the whole squad?

All these what 'if' are pretty scary. Unless it is a desperate situation, or the sin in question is solo-ing, then the sin can tank to his heart content.

Afterall, it's his exp, charm and pots and he can experiment if he feels so incline to do so.

But in a squad situation, if the sin wanna tank a boss with a barb in a squad, then it's just (downright) dis-respectful.

DrunkWizard - Lost City

omfg why u guys keep "quoting" huge big wall of texts b:angryb:angry

Foxgrit - Lost City

Vorawrcious - Harshlands wrote: »

Assassin job in BH is to follow the barbs lead and help intercept any mob heading to attack a cleric. Same with most classes.

I would say the only times a BH squads puts themselves in danger is when they get ahead of me or decide to take a different route. Not sure if i really have large enough sample group of players to make assuptions about roles. But from my experience, Venos and Assassins are the worst offenders in this regard.

Topic is Assassins so i tell one tale about Assassin. I was about lvl 64 -66 i think. Assassin was a lvl above me and he wanted to tank Rankar. His reasoning was that he should tank Rankar cause he is going to steal aggro anyway.

My response was, it's up to cleric. He/she can pick and heal who they want to tank it. I was interested in seeing what would happen if assassing tried to tank Rankar.

Well, from that point it was dithering and heehawing around for several minutes over who should tank. Cleric didnt want to say anything either way and i saw we were getting nowhere fast. Finally i just declared , "Jokes over assassin, just heal me cleric im going in."

It was a FF/BH at once and the tabber died from the boss AOE and kept trying to rez by boss and dieng again so i ran to pull boss away. Assassin stole aggro when i tried to drag boss away from the player that died from AOE. Then all he could do was declare how he told us so.

Could a lvl 66 Assassin tank Rankar? He seemed to think he could. I really didnt want him expirimenting with our time and XP at risk. I was a sure thing, tried and test to tank Rankar. Why not go with sure thing, and the standard, that barb is best tank, when level are colse to same.

EDIT: Almost forgot to address OP points.

1. To kill guardian in BH 51 veno, BM or secondary Barb would do the job better. But if he wants kill door opener i doubt anyone would ague with him. Feel free buddy.

2. If boss goes astray whats stopping him from trying to get aggro. Feel free buddy.

3. You want to stun mobs? who is stopping you. Feel free buddy.

this is the exact reason why when i drag my cleric along on my laptop it ONLY heals the one who is tanking. everyone else can learn to not pull agro or die. many times i have let people die because they either are too stupid to understand how to keep their damage down or just have such a large ego they think they can do anything they want and its everyone elses job to cover their **** when they **** up. if i pull agro myself and i am not tanking i will not switch to heal myself either. thats my own damn fault for pulling agro and i will use pots until the intended tank gets agro back. i dont give a damn if the person who gets themself killed stays dead until after the boss dies and they dont get credit for it in a BH. maybe next time they will learn.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »

this is the exact reason why when i drag my cleric along on my laptop it ONLY heals the one who is tanking. everyone else can learn to not pull agro or die. many times i have let people die because they either are too stupid to understand how to keep their damage down or just have such a large ego they think they can do anything they want and its everyone elses job to cover their **** when they **** up. if i pull agro myself and i am not tanking i will not switch to heal myself either. thats my own damn fault for pulling agro and i will use pots until the intended tank gets agro back. i dont give a damn if the person who gets themself killed stays dead until after the boss dies and they dont get credit for it in a BH. maybe next time they will learn.

good your not on my server. don't seem to be nice, accidents can happen for the ebst too, and a cleric who's just careless is not fun b:bye

Vorawrcious - Harshlands

Clerics main role in dungeons is to keep the tank alive and themselves alive. Everything else is secondary to that. How do you equate doing your job right with being mean. Any other braves souls in the squad should have hp pots to use for the few times they take damage form mobs or boss AOE.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

Vorawrcious - Harshlands wrote: »

Clerics main role in dungeons is to keep the tank alive and themselves alive. Everything else is secondary to that. How do you equate doing your job right with being mean. Any other braves souls in the squad should have hp pots to use for the few times they take damage form mobs or boss AOE.

she says this " i dont give a damn if the person who gets themself killed stays dead until after the boss dies and they dont get credit for it in a BH. maybe next time they will learn."

this is being mean if its accident or get 1 shot or anything crazy who knos. would cause me blacklist such cleric, no doubt if the cleric say that in my squad to whoever died.

Foxgrit - Lost City

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

good your not on my server. don't seem to be nice, accidents can happen for the ebst too, and a cleric who's just careless is not fun b:bye

has nothing to do with being careless its called teaching people a lesson on how to not pull agro. when an aoe boss is pulled by someone who is standing right next to the cleric the cleric might die and then the boss goes around killing everyone else. guess that would be nice for me to save that poor archer who pulls agro up until the time he gets my cleric killed and then let the rest of the party wipe.

i think it sounds nicer to keep the tank alive and the person who pulled agro can use a pot or 2 or even die and then the tank gets the agro back and the rest of the party stays alive. if i have time and the guy isnt a dumbass i might revive him otherwise i will leave him lay til the boss is dead. not going to risk anyone else for someone who didnt do their job correctly. anyone who is stupid enough to 3 spark on stygean when a veno is tanking deserves to lay dead. there is no nice or mean about it. that is just plain stupidity.

Heartstone - Dreamweaver

well even the archers auto attacking gets aggro if good refined, can't be avoided compeltely never get aggro. barb can be dumb and be lazy on flesh too. yes if arche ror whoever go demon spark right in start or keep sparking, when knwoing will take aggro, then yes their own fault.
but its not always their fault lol. thats liek saying barb cannot do a mistake.

Killahoe - Harshlands

Yes the barbs main role is to tank , but not all siuations call for it.

Why let the barb tank when the sin can do it and kill the boss faster?

Im sure a smart cleric would choose the sin to tank for less pot cost and barb for armour repair.

If the sin was fail, couldnt tank and died , barb could easily take over.

I like to tank where posssible on my sin , also on my archer it gets the job done quicker.If i die its my own fault.If my death would put the squad in danger i wouldnt suggest that i tank.

Please dont base you entire opinion on a few bad players, there is some good sin players out there.

Oh and MANray_ most of what you say is just arguing for the sake of it, giving examples from something different than what was being said.

No i didnt say sins will replace all the other class, all i meant was they are a lot better than most people think when played by a good player.

Foxgrit - Lost City

Heartstone - Dreamweaver wrote: »

she says this " i dont give a damn if the person who gets themself killed stays dead until after the boss dies and they dont get credit for it in a BH. maybe next time they will learn."

this is being mean if its accident or get 1 shot or anything crazy who knos. would cause me blacklist such cleric, no doubt if the cleric say that in my squad to whoever died.

if they get killed legitimately thats one thing. if they steal agro from a barb (unless that barb is a complete fail) thats their own damn fault and they will learn for the next time. when you hear someone say "i'm going to see how much damage i can do" then 3 spark and spam skills then whine for heals and start screaming at the barb for losing agro.

i dont blame someone who gets caught in an aoe although then its probably going to be a BB situation if there are multiple melee characters in party and its a mute point. only talking about someone who steals agro and thats just too damn bad.

Killahoe - Harshlands

Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »

anyone who is stupid enough to 3 spark on stygean when a veno is tanking deserves to lay dead. there is no nice or mean about it. that is just plain stupidity.

so i guess your hatred isnt for sins after all, since they dont have demon spark.

Foxgrit - Lost City

Killahoe - Harshlands wrote: »

Yes the barbs main role is to tank , but not all siuations call for it.

Why let the barb tank when the sin can do it and kill the boss faster?

Im sure a smart cleric would choose the sin to tank for less pot cost and barb for armour repair.

If the sin was fail, couldnt tank and died , barb could easily take over.

I like to tank where posssible on my sin , also on my archer it gets the job done quicker.If i die its my own fault.If my death would put the squad in danger i wouldnt suggest that i tank.

Please dont base you entire opinion on a few bad players, there is some good sin players out there.

Oh and MANray_ most of what you say is just arguing for the sake of it, giving examples from something different than what was being said.

No i didnt say sins will replace all the other class, all i meant was they are a lot better than most people think when played by a good player.

i dont give a damn what class is tanking but whoever is chosen as the tank is the only one my cleric heals. BUT if you claim you can tank better than the barb in squad and die you will not be getting a rez from me when you think you are pro tank over a proven barb tank.

Foxgrit - Lost City

Killahoe - Harshlands wrote: »

so i guess your hatred isnt for sins after all, since they dont have demon spark.

nope just any player of any class that is too damn stupid to understand agro control.

Killahoe - Harshlands

Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »

nope just any player of any class that is too damn stupid to understand agro control.

ah so i guess your butt hurt that venos arent realy a squad type of class.

But this isnt a topic about any class taking agro, its about sins finding squads.

threepointone

Yay for all my posts.

Foxgrit - Lost City

Killahoe - Harshlands wrote: »

ah so i guess your butt hurt that venos arent realy a squad type of class.

But this isnt a topic about any class taking agro, its about sins finding squads.

you lost me there? you think this is a real character? i only leveled this to 30 so i can fly around purging people for fun when i'm bored.

i thought we were talking about what i do on my 93 cleric. if i'm on my 99 veno i prefer to not have anyone other than my cleric and my gf's 100 archer and 84 veno with anyway. can open anything and if cant veno tank it just log on my 92 barb and that can. if i get stuck in a party with someone while helping her i dont give a damn if i **** anyone off because i dont want to be in a party with them anyway

threepointone

Foxgrit - Lost City wrote: »

you lost me there?

Yes, he did lose you there.

EDIT: This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 9 seconds.

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear

MANray_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

See? It's no longer the same argument once you start going back on your claims. You didn't say that sin would be amongst the top dps outputs, but that it would in fact outdps every other class. You obviously don't have the spine to make the same claims on a thread's title that you do in your posts. You've proven nothing but that you won't back your claims. Cold feet?

You're willing to go out of your way and take random screenies, but refuse to organize your data methodically, why? If you're right this would settle the issue, but apparently rewriting a single post (and then only to include information which you've already obtained) seems more trouble than to write various and repeated answers to several posters. If you want bragging rights then satisfy what to many of us is a minimal and reasonable standard of proof. Or GTFO. Your thread proves nothing and i do seem to remember some guy writing in bold red letters that the subject is POTENTIAL DPS and not something verified. All the gear is obtainable in game? Go to the appropiate forges and screen it. Oh, but a serious discussion would expose the flaws in your argument...

It's all speculation and based in theories up until now. What makes you think a sin's demon spark (from what i know, currently unavailable) will even work in the same way for sins as it does for BMs? Venos get neither improved channeling nor attack rate, what's to say the devs didn't actually foresee this might bring up a balance issue and decided to go a different way with the sparks for the TB classes? You don't know, you're only guessing. And since even your guesses you're unwilling to test i guess it's safe to say your words are nothing but hot air... Take all your bragging and pretentions back to the sin's forum, they seem to like it there.

dude wtf are u talking about? are you that stupid as to not just use common sense? i already made a thread what point would it be to make ANOTHER thread about it? it is not speculation, use that ****ing thing in your head called a brain.

and you are still ignoring my questions that i have asked you... you refuse to ignore all the facts. u act as if we magically have no interval gear to reach 5atk/sec. u magically ignore the fact that all of our dmg AND crit rate comes from ONE stat. you are just blatantly making yourself oblivious to whats obviously already in the damn game... if you even tried to use your head or read the link i gave u then u would see that a sin can also get 5atk/sec without demon spark.

if you keep ignoring whats right in front of your face then you cant be helped. believe what you want.

it is NOT theory it is FACT. if u want to call it theory then u will have to magically ignore that a sin cant get interval gear in this game which is exactly what you are doing.

Giodia - Heavens Tear

Ballistixz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

dude wtf are u talking about? are you that stupid as to not just use common sense? i already made a thread what point would it be to make ANOTHER thread about it? it is not speculation, use that ****ing thing in your head called a brain.

and you are still ignoring my questions that i have asked you... you refuse to ignore all the facts. u act as if we magically have no interval gear to reach 5atk/sec. u magically ignore the fact that all of our dmg AND crit rate comes from ONE stat. you are just blatantly making yourself oblivious to whats obviously already in the damn game... if you even tried to use your head or read the link i gave u then u would see that a sin can also get 5atk/sec without demon spark.

if you keep ignoring whats right in front of your face then you cant be helped. believe what you want.

it is NOT theory it is FACT. if u want to call it theory then u will have to magically ignore that a sin cant get interval gear in this game which is exactly what you are doing.

Then please enlighten us on the mathematics that you have used to arrive at this conclusion.

Because, from threads in the sin section has chosen demon culti to reach 5 patk/sec, which is still remains to be proven when they are using demon spark theory from other classes to derive upon the conclusion.

It's either you prove yourself with mathematics or this never happens.

b:chuckle

BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear

lol wth is up with u guys?
the thread started with some suggestions about what a sin can do IF squaded
then everyone was just ranting about how sins are ****ty and every otehr class can beat them....in the end u even managed to switch topics to cleric.....are u all stupid or do u just pretend to be that way?

1. don't forget the original issue of this thread(yeah even if poorly written, but i had not much time)
2. about sins outdpsing bms and archers....tell me this....do bms get their 5dps at lvl 60? or do archer get theier dps at lvl 60? obviously not ..so what do u expect to get sins and prove u? most of uss are low lvl and those who are high enough won't do **** either cause we aren't complete. everything up till now were assumptions and the DPs thin...u just need to imagine some things with ur head....if an archer has the same dmg per sec with fists as a sin with dagger who do u think will win? the one who gets ALL his dmg from dex or the one who has a wep that relys on str? obviously the full Dex wep wins. do archers have buffs to increase crit, rate or crit dmg? ofc not so in the end we are the first in that ddepartment over archers

now to bms....same story...sin with same dps as bm wit out dps him cause he has far more crits and again his dmg relys only one ONE stat....no prob there....i won'T talk about how we cang et 5dps and how bms have a higher attack rate....bull****....with proper gear we can have the same attack speed as a bm(and i'm not talking about the max 5dps since not everyone has it anyway). are u ppl blind or can'T u read.
and the thing with sins not needing anyone(godana was ur name as far as i remember...not that it matters) do u really think we can get our full potential at lvl 5x,6x,7x? are u stupid? ofc we will need squads to lvl and so we can help and get help....BUT we can solo things an archer can aswell. same build same survival rate.....don't be so full of urself. we can get our good gear in our 90s and later....till then we won't be able to do much(maybe with refined gear) u guys jsut randomly go off ranting about how sins are useless and how we should prove to u that we are indeed what we claim....but if u look closely those claims aren'T that big anyway....outdpsing a archer or a bm is no prob(given bm, arhcer have same dps as sin ) and again that thing about 5dps...we only can assume...u can not prove that we are wrong claiming to get the same speed as bms and we cannot prove that we are right claiming the same....so stop arguing over a stupid topic....
this thread should have been closed

Ephemerai - Sanctuary

Feel the hate!

Too bad the vocal ones are in the minority. I haven't run into a single sin-hater ingame yet =]

Killahoe - Harshlands

they just wont listen , a nice little genie skill called relentless courage will get you to 5 aps

Giodia - Heavens Tear

BIackTyphoon - Heavens Tear wrote: »

lol wth is up with u guys?
the thread started with some suggestions about what a sin can do IF squaded
then everyone was just ranting about how sins are ****ty and every otehr class can beat them....in the end u even managed to switch topics to cleric.....are u all stupid or do u just pretend to be that way?

1. don't forget the original issue of this thread(yeah even if poorly written, but i had not much time)
2. about sins outdpsing bms and archers....tell me this....do bms get their 5dps at lvl 60? or do archer get theier dps at lvl 60? obviously not ..so what do u expect to get sins and prove u? most of uss are low lvl and those who are high enough won't do **** either cause we aren't complete. everything up till now were assumptions and the DPs thin...u just need to imagine some things with ur head....if an archer has the same dmg per sec with fists as a sin with dagger who do u think will win? the one who gets ALL his dmg from dex or the one who has a wep that relys on str? obviously the full Dex wep wins. do archers have buffs to increase crit, rate or crit dmg? ofc not so in the end we are the first in that ddepartment over archers

now to bms....same story...sin with same dps as bm wit out dps him cause he has far more crits and again his dmg relys only one ONE stat....no prob there....i won'T talk about how we cang et 5dps and how bms have a higher attack rate....bull****....with proper gear we can have the same attack speed as a bm(and i'm not talking about the max 5dps since not everyone has it anyway). are u ppl blind or can'T u read.
and the thing with sins not needing anyone(godana was ur name as far as i remember...not that it matters) do u really think we can get our full potential at lvl 5x,6x,7x? are u stupid? ofc we will need squads to lvl and so we can help and get help....BUT we can solo things an archer can aswell. same build same survival rate.....don't be so full of urself. we can get our good gear in our 90s and later....till then we won't be able to do much(maybe with refined gear) u guys jsut randomly go off ranting about how sins are useless and how we should prove to u that we are indeed what we claim....but if u look closely those claims aren'T that big anyway....outdpsing a archer or a bm is no prob(given bm, arhcer have same dps as sin ) and again that thing about 5dps...we only can assume...u can not prove that we are wrong claiming to get the same speed as bms and we cannot prove that we are right claiming the same....so stop arguing over a stupid topic....
this thread should have been closed

No. I think you are stupid and please pardon me for calling you names. All we have here is theories and more theories on a unfinished class.

Perhaps, wait till you get your 89 culti spark before bringing in theories which others will never agree till we see the final thing laid on the table. We archers pride ourselves as being able to prove ourselves with maths and formulas.

Without any concrete proof to hold water, the theory simply failz.

Also, sins do not need other classes since they can 'in-theory' tank and dps like a madman, why are we there in the first place then?

To witness the awesomeness of your dps?

Seriously, so what if you are the best DPS when most squads do not want you due to your arrogant attitude and your 'awesome' dps?

Also, Archers have their DPS in theory right after they are created due to the speed that they could shoot down a mob @ range (without getting touched) and we have been a proven dps class.

Now sins comes along and wants to claim the title, so, do I need to congratulate you on your theory to achieving 5patk/ sec?

If so, congrates and you can solo for the rest of your career as a sin. Because you obviously have no need for us (old classes) when your arrogance has stated you can tank and dps.

Sometimes, a little humility will not kill you. But anyway, what's humility when you have your awesome dps and you think you are the next best thing since bread?

Old classes reading this: I would highly suggest you to ignore this 'awesome' piece of human waste in game. I know I will because I do not wish to lose exp on his 'awesome' dps that may wipe us. He could stealth off and aggro will be on the rest of the squad.