My "Age" ranting...

Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »

That doesn't work. You're basically asking anyone with stricter standards than yours to stop participating in society. You can't do that if you want society to function. You have to try to figure out a way for people of different opinions to coexist.

From a MMO game developer's standpoint, either extreme is bad. If you allow all profanity, you lose out on the large population of players who will only tolerate profanity up to a point. If you ban all profanity, you lose out on the large population of players who believe some freedom of expression is necessary. A MMO game has to strike a balance, allowing a moderate degree of freedom of expression, but keeping profanity enough in check so it doesn't drive too many customers away.

Filters go a long way towards this goal. A month ago I would've segued into a mini-rant about the lack of customizable filters in this game. But since they gave us customizable keyboard mappings, I'll just say I'm hopeful they'll make the filters customizable too.


Thing is, it's not your place to decide that 14 is the magical age. Legally, in most countries, until the kid is 18, it's the parents' decision what does and doesn't constitute insulting monitoring or excessive restrictions. Some parents are lax. Others are strict. That's just The Way Things Are.

If you attempt to deluge the kids in the profanity the parents are trying to protect them from, just because you disagree with the parents, well then that makes you a self-important ****. The choice of how to raise their kids is theirs, not yours. If you disagree with it, either debate it with them and try to change their minds in a mature way. Or go make your own kids and bring them up whatever way you want.

Personally, I never understood why some people feel the need to swear every other word. IMHO shocking words need to be used sparingly to preserve their shock value. If you use them all the time, they lose their shock value and you just sound like an uncouth neanderthal.

It's kinda like what the music studios are doing to the dynamic range of CDs in the so-called loudness wars. By making the average volume of CDs louder, they're giving up a lot of dynamic range and expressiveness that's possible with music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

Same thing goes for speech. If you swear all the time, people who are frequently around you just learn to tune it out, and you're losing a lot of the expressiveness that's possible with language. I rarely swear, but when I do, people who know me know that there must've been a damn good reason why I swore.

Have to quote this because it is a thoughtful, measured opinion. The key here is compromise and most of the people in this thread are posting from the extreme ends of the spectrum.

A little respect, from BOTH sides, goes a long way.

I am 37...

Up till I was 18 (other than work reason) I had to be home at 10 pm...
Even during summer...

The "worst" thing I did when I was a kid:

Took 25 cents from my mom stash of coins to pay the road tolls to buy sunflower seeds.. felt so bad that I told her and repaid her the double hahaha
And, second worst thing I did was to take the garbage from one entrance and move them to another entrance... I felt so bad that I told my parents... even though they knew it was not really "BAD" there was no garbage bin was only the bags.... and the neighbours almost laugh... my parents made sure I went to the neighbours and said sorry... just so I would learn my lesson....
One night after work, I missed the last bus, there was no cell in these days,and I had no quarters to call my parents.. so I walked back home.. arrived 1 hour late... the cops were already called... my parents made me call back the police station to tell them I was back and sorry for worrying them... ok the cops laugh at the other end of the line.. but lemme tell ya.. I always made sure I had a quarter in my pocket after to call my parents if I was late
Even if we had alot of different views and alot of confrontation, I never yelled at my parents.. always tried to discuss with them... even if I had alot of time out and alot of things/events removed from me.... I had respect for them...
We had a huge age difference.... they had problem adapt to my generation... they even had trouble adapt to my 2 older brother generation.. and I have 8 and 11 years difference with them...
Had to stay at the table until everybody had finish..
Yes they were strict.. and a lil close minded when it was regarding our behavior and education etc...

But my parents always proned tolerance towards others.. including races, handicap, lifestyle etc... They also teached me to think before talking, to try to settled things in a courtous way as much as possible... but if things were dangerous and very not right for me.. to not be afraid to take action.

That's the way I been raised.. and it showed me respect... And even today, I rarely swear.. 1st: not in front of my daughter or any kid... 2nd: adults that knows me.. definatly knows that something is very wrong....
Many of my friends comes from different backgrounds and some are "different" don't like the word handicap ... My own daughter has Autism and ADHD and I meet alot of what could seem "weird" people, but I help them as much as I can...

I had my "rebellious days" when I was in my 20's.. but I never hurt somebody with my words or remarks intentionnaly.. even in my rebellious behaviors and actions... I couldn't forget what my parents thought me

With my daughter, due to her autism.. I try to be very careful of what she sees on TV or read.. as per she has trouble with understanding what is right or wrong.. and what is real or not etc...
But I will try to not shelter her as much as my parents did.. if ever her autism settles.... But I will make sure she learn respect.. that's for sure

Anyway.. it was long I know.... sorry

Again this thread is not really just regarding parents trying to protect their teenagers/kids.. it's also to have respect to others.. no matter what the age group is..

If I see alot of swear in FC/WC... it's relatively ok with me.. but like I said in previous post... when it comes to races... wrong sexual behavior... or very vulgar talking... it simply shows no respect to the general people and even less to these races.. or like I said.. wil still hurt and bring bad memories to somebody that would have been abuse or ***** .. when we see in CAPITAL stuff like... I R.PED HER and SHE LOVED IT.... am sorry.. but seeing that in WC/FC is just wrong... do you really think that somebody that went through that would appreciate these comments??? NO.. even if it's said as a joke... to some people... this will never be a joke... and will hurt them forever...

Just think before talking.. think about respect..and think about if what you could say in WC could hurt or offend somebody... if you wanna be rude and vulgar and obscene... form a chat.. a squad.. a faction for it... just don't do it in WC or in a faction that has a policy to respect others and have "rated PG" chat in the faction...

ok that's all..... I wrote way too much ROFL

_Pale - Sanctuary wrote: »

I think the warning sign on the bottom of PWI homepage should be enough for parents to decide:

---

TEEN
Fantasy Violence
Suggestive themes

---

If you have a problem with that considering your childs age, you know this is not for you. That is what warning signs are for. You can expect the RPG to reflect the general theme in chat.
The game has an autocensor for most of the nasty stuff.
I think for most players it's not about their kids, (if you don't want to expose them to this then turn off the computer), but more about the annoyance all the profanity gives when you just want to communicate during the game.
Pages of chat filled with name calling, exclamations and harrasments (mostly in CAPS) dont help squad/faction communication and just distract from the information you need to get.

However there will always be people who like to wage their own crusade against anything they think is inappropriate,... makes them feel good I guess.

Remember the game has a close function and the computer has an off-button too.

It is fantasy violence and suggestive themes, however; no where in that do I see make out sessions, repulsive racism, vulgar sexual acts listed in your world chat, jokes about sexual orientation, all out curse sessions available or any other thing that is against the TERMS OF SERVICE pointed out by this game.

There is a difference in being a lil prude and being totally lewd. There needs to be a balance. 50 years ago this kind of behavior would have had strict consequences, you'd have been shunned from your peers and your parents. Now its the normal.

So because its now apparently socially acceptable, where do we stop? Because the racists, murders, and rapists in prison feel their crimes were socially acceptable as well. When do we stop adapting to what people justify as "the norm" or something we should "get over"? When is enough enough?

Crabby_Jack - Sanctuary wrote: »

I agree with you on this! About people leaving their mouths SHUT, rather than having them to come into a game (or online, or anywhere, for that matter) and make the racist and sexist, etc. comments. Not cool guys!

But I also think that people who come in here QQing about the "too revealing" artist pictures, (oh for crying out loud, they are MERMAIDS; get a grip!), and the "too revealing" character's outfits, (oh wait, that was never mentioned, lol. Personally I don't have a problem with any of the art/costumes; it's awesome), and that they're offended 'cause they have a 9-year old playing in here who might "accidentally" see them, or that there might be swear words used in game (yep, there are; but don't run away just yet), or something along those lines, and expecting the developers to change everything to please them, YOU are living in La-La Land! (I mean the imaginary "goody-two-shoes" world, apparently in your head, and wasn't referring to Los Angeles, lol).

If you don't like the way this game (and all the MMORPG's, I have ever seen) are set up and played, then get out! Don't play! Go play kick-ball in your yard with your children, or take them hiking, or play Monopoly or something with them. It will give you all a fun time, and then you don't have to worry that their little psyche's are "offended". More like it, the fact that you don't have to worry that YOUR prudish little psyche is offended.

While I don't condone sexist, or racist, or overly rude behavior in the games, this is a different matter, and one which speaks to your personally chosen "ideal" of what is, and what is not, considered offensive behavior. There are general community standards of acceptable behavior in any community, (which also changes within each area of that community). FYI: PWI is also a community of people, and even though it's online, there are real people playing each and every one of the characters in here.

My point being: If you are so easily offended......GO AWAY! Stop bothering the people who DO like this game! Stop bothering the GM's, the Mods, the Devs, and any of the other people who put this interesting and fun game together! Stop whining and GO HOME!

So where should we stop being offended? Should everything be acceptable? If you want to murder someone should we as society accept that as well? Actually I'm more bothered that people think its OK to behave in the manners as I've described above than I am by the fact that they actually do it. A little cursing is one thing, but having sexual acts spelled out in front of us is no different than watching explicit adult videos. If I wanted to watch them, I wouldn't be on an MMO. BTW, the GM's and Mod's aren't bothered, they are doing their job. Their Job is to enforce the terms of service you agreed to when you made an account here, no matter what is or is not socially accepted; you agreed to a certain TOS which has NOT been changed.

OneHottShot - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It is fantasy violence and suggestive themes, however; no where in that do I see make out sessions, repulsive racism, vulgar sexual acts listed in your world chat, jokes about sexual orientation, all out curse sessions available or any other thing that is against the TERMS OF SERVICE pointed out by this game.

There is a difference in being a lil prude and being totally lewd. There needs to be a balance. 50 years ago this kind of behavior would have had strict consequences, you'd have been shunned from your peers and your parents. Now its the normal.

So because its now apparently socially acceptable, where do we stop? Because the racists, murders, and rapists in prison feel their crimes were socially acceptable as well. When do we stop adapting to what people justify as "the norm" or something we should "get over"? When is enough enough?



So where should we stop being offended? Should everything be acceptable? If you want to murder someone should we as society accept that as well? Actually I'm more bothered that people think its OK to behave in the manners as I've described above than I am by the fact that they actually do it. A little cursing is one thing, but having sexual acts spelled out in front of us is no different than watching explicit adult videos. If I wanted to watch them, I wouldn't be on an MMO. BTW, the GM's and Mod's aren't bothered, they are doing their job. Their Job is to enforce the terms of service you agreed to when you made an account here, no matter what is or is not socially accepted; you agreed to a certain TOS which has NOT been changed.

Oh wow youre overblowing it all.
Ive never seen any "secual acts spelled out in front of me" on world chat. Occasionally I see 'tards thinking theyre perfect world celebrities on world chat saying things like I LOVE YOU every 3 minutes. Ive seen one racist joke (somethin along the lines of "shes probably a white girl anyway").
Anyway, people saying "I LOVE YOU" in world chat is in every single over-cliche, wannabe romantic comedy movie out there.
Remember, there IS a difference between how people act on the internet and in real life.
Yes, 50 years ago it would be "shunned-from-parents-worthy" but remember times have changed.
This was my previous post

StormHydra - Sanctuary wrote:

You "adults" dont know what life is like when youre a kid. Sure you might think about the time when you were a kid but im guessing that life 20-25 years ago as a child is totally different.
I love how all the "adults" are acting as if they know everything about a childs life and mind.
Yeah, Im 14.
And everytime I see self-righteous, narrow minded people say things like this I laugh.
TBH Ive never gotten seriously offended (seriously offended meaning how offended you guys get) playing any game on the net, including when people post racist jokes/remarks about my country Its what OTHER people think, maybe im just too cynical or maybe everyone else is just really easily offended.

Basically what Im saying is that it doesnt affect the "children" as much as you people think it does.

Theres a MASSIVE difference between swearing and murdering, sheesh.


And uh...Colour alone doesnt make people read your posts. Make it bigger as well and people wont skip past your post

What I'm curious about is why people are under this notion that age determines maturity.

I've seen 14-year-olds who know not to use foul language and dirty jokes when it's not appropriate. I also see 30-year-olds busting out racist jokes like they're presenting the news.

I completely agree at OP.
just a little while ago, be it end of year stress or whatever, some people at my old faction got really annoying with this "watch your language" stuff. almost half the faction quitted in the span of 3 days. your kids watch (or even worst, read) Twilight, and you don't want them to see someone saying a$$h0|3. with TV, internet,music... your kids probably have a wider range of dirty vocabulary than I do. its called globalization,baby. and as the name implies, this is Pefect World INTERNATIONAL. what in some countries is considered dirty language, in others it isnt. you can always shut the chat off, place parental control function on TV and trap your children inside a bubble.

You just prove you are all a bunch of sick, perverted morons because no one should be using such language to begin with...EVER. So there should be nothing here to complain about in the first place because any properly intelligent person would never use the language the OP is talking about in the first place.

At 27, I still have never and will never like your **** you sick people.

ok i hoped i could just ignore this thread but seriously even though im just 16

this will be an endless discussion
we can keep talking like its okay to talk like that or not
but it isnt gonna help anyone
if you dont like it you can join a mature faction that doesnt cuss
if you do think its good join a faction that allows it
if you are inbetween theres such types off factions to
if you dont like the WC and think its harrasment you can send in a ticket/and or blacklist the person or ignore it
and keep in mind this game has an age restriction for reasons

so please stop posting its not gonna help anyone to argue endlessly
and take the advice i gave you so you can play without hinder

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You just prove you are all a bunch of sick, perverted morons because no one should be using such language to begin with...EVER. So there should be nothing here to complain about in the first place because any properly intelligent person would never use the language the OP is talking about in the first place.

At 27, I still have never and will never like your **** you sick people.

b:laughb:laugh

and i would really like to put more laugh smilies, but oh well, 3 limit.

see??? you yourself said ****. sometimes we use those words to express emotions, unable to find a better one. so no hipocrisy hereb:bye

It's not entirely about the kids. There's plenty of adults who don't like that foul language.

Plus, there's a difference between swearing every now, and then and looking like an uneducated bigot. I'm sure a large portion of the people who say "watch the language" aren't talking about the f word every 30 minutes or so, but rather a full-blown wall of swears.

true, no one likes people that more than swear while talking talk while swearing. but I believe that what the OP was talking about is people making a fuss when someone says f***. I had situations where I was pked and said F*** and got like 20 people saying "watch the language" or "I hate this drama" and blabla.

I'm not too fond of people who use their children as a tool to control others. Nor do I care for the "everybody else does it" and "they'll run into it eventually" bullcrap excuses either. Both sides are being disrespectful to the other. I also do my best to not pass judgement on people's parenting. I wouldn't want someone telling me how to raise my children, so why would I with them? Extreme cases aside, of course. We don't need little psychos with axes running around, killing the neighbors. Especially if we are those neighbors. b:cute

With that said, some of us just don't want to have anything to do with your cybering. It's not only those with children, are "old" or don't cyber themselves. I'm 19, definately no kids and cyber like mad with my boyfriend (long distance *sniffles*). But I feel somethings are best kept in private because not everyone wants the play-by-play. Yes, we can easily exit faction chat. But you can just as easily use whisper or, if it's an orgy, a private chatroom. Either side can easily find a new faction.

Racism in any form violates ToS. I have zero tolerance. I will screenshot and ticket it freely and with immense pleasure anyday! I have yet to bump into true sexism. It doesn't bother me. I probably wouldn't report but I would tell said offenders off if someone else were upset. Religious/anti-religious views being mocked/forced onto others will get an instant "ripped you a new one" carnage followed by a swift reporting. Cussing more than talking... *shakes head* I know you have a wider vocabulary. Can you please use it? The occasional side-step around the filter doesn't shake me. But if one were to make a habit of it and ignore those offended, I would screenshot and report. "Going around the filter is against the ToS and you, sir, just ticked me off."

Lastly... political slander/opinions/what-have-you... insta-block. I don't care if I agree with you, you really need to take it elsewhere. A political forum would be nice. And as it's said in my family, "Politics is merely a bunch of opinions. Nothing more and nothing less."

Overall though, I don't see the issue. It's easily fixed. Realized you're the black sheep? Find a new flock. That's what I do when I find myself the minority in an offensive faction. It's a virtual world. Thus it's not difficult like moving to a new town or switching schools.

EDIT: I am not talking about World Chat. That's it own can of worms, completely seperate from faction chat. Why? Think of factions as private interest clubs with a maximum population of 150 or 200 (I can't remember which right now, sorry.) Now see WC as a giant stage that has an audience filled with thousands of people from every background imaginable and then some. Two completely seperate issues.

I have yet to find a single person, regardless of age, regardless of anything, complain about the word "****". Even parents with young kids.

Wrathfulsynn - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Sadly, I DID get into trouble for saying "****" as a child. =(

Same, and for the same reasons... And don't even dare to think about saying "gosh darnit".

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know 5 years ago Catholic schools had issue with "****". I don't know anymore though. But yeah, it's damn near 100% accepted these days. (Like the word "damn". Lol.)

I'm from a family that still goes by the "my roof, my rules" practice. "Damn" would have gotten some yelling. <_< Use it on a parent and it would have gotten a solid spanking. I think my brother used it and got slapped once. I missed it, but I think it brought him back down to earth, during his teen years.b:beatenup

Lazyluna - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I know 5 years ago Catholic schools had issue with "****". I don't know anymore though. But yeah, it's damn near 100% accepted these days. (Like the word "damn". Lol.)

My catholic high school has no problem with "****". b:cute