Why do they keep nerfing Venos?! :(

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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Teartroll - Sanctuary wrote: »
    ... 3... i think its the way theyre supposed to be. all pets, all class or battle, are coded as NPCs so they do the same damage.. say a guard would to harpy wraith. although the guard/harpy thing is a totally different story, NPC = full damage, but somes skills are reduced, such as ive shown before, their bleed is on mobs that high.

    You are right that not all damage behaves consistently. Pet melee damage gets PVP reduction and not [?]-level reduction. Flesh ream gets [?]-level reduction and not PVP reduciton. Doesnt that sound buggy?

    If you want to say pets are balanced with respect to other classes you need to be comparing pets to what is available to those classes and not to NPCs like guards. All-class pets do no damage and if a veno could control a guard I'd call that ridiculous as well.

    You have described perhaps a reason how this bug occurred: the devs were sloppy and didn't make all the necessary changes when adapting the standard NPC logic to veno pets.

    The real question is *should* veno pets be able to ignore any of those damage reductions. The answer is no. When a pet kills a mob, the veno gets the XP. When a pet gets a pvp kill, the veno is credited. The pet is an extension of the player and its damage should be treated like standard weapon damage and not "NPC" damage.
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    I thought (1) was a 50% reduction on ranged attacks, and melee wasn't affected? If you're in melee range (all air pets attack from melee range), the mob can obviously fight back, so there's no point reducing damage by 50%. If player melee damage is reduced when in the air, then I'd say veno pets are behaving correctly and it's player melee damage which is bugged.

    Agreed that (2) and (3) make no sense....

    Actually melee classes DO get 50% reduction air-to-ground. Flying pets don't. Buggy isn't it?
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  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Teartroll - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i can say giving it to PVP, maybbbeee (venos suck ~_~), but not monsters. even with the phoenix, we're still quite weak, you've said so your self, you outdamage every other class on anything except for phoenix on WB. ive seen you brag about 64k crits with normal shots on mobs around our level.

    tell me how thats not 'over powered'

    Heh when I brag about crits it is under very unrealistic conditions :)
    Tell me how much damage you think a sparked, amped, frenzied, poisoned, dragoned, mag defence debuf, parasitic nova would be?

    My point is that there is tons of evidence that veno pets are buggy in respecting damage reductions that apply to all the other classes. Bugs should be fixed.
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  • Osiris - Dreamweaver
    Osiris - Dreamweaver Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Teartroll - Sanctuary wrote: »
    exactly! especially freaking demon archers, theyre way stronger than stupid phoenix + veno

    How exactly are demon archers so superior to any onther celestial class? Can't venos cast triple spark?

    Edit:
    Teartroll - Sanctuary wrote: »
    1. u lie! you said you got those with your own buff/debuffs avaliable and on level 88 mobs!

    64k crits are impossible for archers under 'normal' conditions. Even with triple spark, metal debuffs on wood mobs and a highly refined weapon you rarely do 45k crits.
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Teartroll - Sanctuary wrote: »
    1. u lie! you said you got those with your own buff/debuffs avaliable and on level 88 mobs!
    2. highest ive gotten was a 72k crit doing said conditions with ironwood on a -lower level mob-(my nova isnt maxed)
    3. ive seen a demon cleric do 132k minus the poison/frenzy with a demon plume shot on the FB59 wood boss

    Hmmm, the best I have done on my own is a spark poison frenzy demon take aim on a chicken - 76k. I'd still call that unrealistic.

    This doesnt seem to relate much to my main point: the damage from veno pets should respect the same reductions that damage from other players is subjected to. For better or worse pets are buggy and bugs should be fixed.
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  • ShastaFrost - Heavens Tear
    ShastaFrost - Heavens Tear Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    **when** did they take out the ability to use areogear while in foxform?? i've been offline a few days, but last day i played-last thursday-i saw it.

    and yes, its dead wrong of the deves to remove abilies without notification....next thing we know, they will keep everyone in human form, take away the pets ....who knows what else they will cheat us out of.b:angry
    Torinchibi - Lost City wrote: »
    I am glad they did that, now you can't fly around in fox form and not even press buttons to **** ppl with the nix, you at least have to target them. It's really not nerfing when the other classes don't even have a pet to do that with.

    ....Watch what they'll do next, they'll actually make you use ctrl+2 for skills instead of ctrl+1 and it auto does it. You got a nix with a bigged flesh ream, you don't get the right to QQ.
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    not everything you see is as it seems....
  • _makina_ - Sanctuary
    _makina_ - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    ShastaFrost - Heavens Tear wrote: »
    **when** did they take out the ability to use areogear while in foxform?? i've been offline a few days, but last day i played-last thursday-i saw it.

    and yes, its dead wrong of the deves to remove abilies without notification....next thing we know, they will keep everyone in human form, take away the pets ....who knows what else they will cheat us out of.b:angry

    I think you misread it.....Torin ment you cant fly around in foxform and NOT HAVE TO TARGET. You can still fly around in fox form just now you have to target/click buttons instead of just putting on defend mode for pet and let the pet do the work in pk.
  • AndromedaB - Sanctuary
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    You are right that not all damage behaves consistently. Pet melee damage gets PVP reduction and not [?]-level reduction. Flesh ream gets [?]-level reduction and not PVP reduciton. Doesnt that sound buggy?

    If you want to say pets are balanced with respect to other classes you need to be comparing pets to what is available to those classes and not to NPCs like guards. All-class pets do no damage and if a veno could control a guard I'd call that ridiculous as well.

    You have described perhaps a reason how this bug occurred: the devs were sloppy and didn't make all the necessary changes when adapting the standard NPC logic to veno pets.

    The real question is *should* veno pets be able to ignore any of those damage reductions. The answer is no. When a pet kills a mob, the veno gets the XP. When a pet gets a pvp kill, the veno is credited. The pet is an extension of the player and its damage should be treated like standard weapon damage and not "NPC" damage.
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Actually melee classes DO get 50% reduction air-to-ground. Flying pets don't. Buggy isn't it?
    Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »
    Heh when I brag about crits it is under very unrealistic conditions :)
    Tell me how much damage you think a sparked, amped, frenzied, poisoned, dragoned, mag defence debuf, parasitic nova would be?

    My point is that there is tons of evidence that veno pets are buggy in respecting damage reductions that apply to all the other classes. Bugs should be fixed.

    hmm who knows what multi quote isb:thanks
  • Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973
    Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973 Posts: 7,881 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »
    hmm who knows what multi quote isb:thanks

    Beh I didnt multipost, it looks like posts were deleted that were interlieved with my comments.
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  • MystiMonk - Sanctuary
    MystiMonk - Sanctuary Posts: 4,286 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    I would say Venos are fine maybe a few of their skills were oped but are now balanced.
    Looking for a decent casual understanding Faction.
  • Anders - Lost City
    Anders - Lost City Posts: 325 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    FINALLY, FINALLLLLLLLYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
    KEEP NERFING THEM!!!
    Servers need more wizards QQ
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    wizards need an efficient way to deal with incr magic resis mobs
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • _makina_ - Sanctuary
    _makina_ - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    wizards need an efficient way to deal with incr magic resis mobs

    Undine strike......
  • Quilue - Sanctuary
    Quilue - Sanctuary Posts: 5,787 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    so what of the levels before 79? it takes going up to level 79, 6mil or so in coins, before you can "efficiently deal w/ incr magic resis mobs" v.v

    i guess the saying dont play wizard unless you really love the class is right...
    Elena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
    Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
    Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
    Qui: b:dirty
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    AndromedaB - Sanctuary wrote: »
    hmm who knows what multi quote isb:thanks

    Someone had all of their posts deleted from the forums which is why it looks like there are double and triple posts now.
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  • _makina_ - Sanctuary
    _makina_ - Sanctuary Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    i guess the saying dont play wizard unless you really love the class is right...

    Correct!!!!!!
  • OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear
    OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear Posts: 2,327 Arc User
    edited July 2009
    Quilue - Sanctuary wrote: »
    so what of the levels before 79? it takes going up to level 79, 6mil or so in coins, before you can "efficiently deal w/ incr magic resis mobs" v.v

    i guess the saying dont play wizard unless you really love the class is right...

    For wizards you have three options: ignore them, kite them around for 5 minutes, or wear LA/HA and beat on them with a stick + either Stone Barrier or Flame Shield and pots.
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