Why do they keep nerfing Venos?! :(
Comments
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yes your skils lag but stil you are to best pve class no matter what
sure venos without nixes arent so good in pvp but there always should be 1 class that kills another in pvp so losing of a barb no qqing about that
venos are the the easiest class to play its as simple as that i have a veno alt so i have some experience in itits impossible to always do the right thing we all make mistakes i am not different from that
just try to be a good person
english isn't my native language so there might be a few spelling/grammatical errors in my posts0 -
Miatemaro - Heavens Tear wrote: »LMAO. Lets hope at this point and time when they have reached that level they have learned how to play.
BTW TY for show that the archer has actually spent less than the veno does on the nix and still out DPS the nix. Good Job
First off, why do you think the phoenix - a pet, not a character - should outdamage archers? A venos damage isn't so gimped that it can be easily ignored - especially since her debuffs make the pet and herself even stronger.
Secondly, the +8 on Blinding Radiance cost $229.50, thats about 40$ more then an average phoenix. And the other equipment + shards doesn't fall from the sky when i flick with my finger, too.
And at last, since you have tried all the classes and are so pro in playing them, tell me how to get my archer so the same efficiency level as you and your nix, without buying 20 apothecary potions using them at the same time, while ignoring their 2 min cooldown, get 5 Spark to triple spark, freeze the nix, cast wings of grace and winged shell while having a genie that is completly adjusted to fight a stupid venos pet that kills me without having to pay any mana not to mention chi? I can't kite while attacking to avoid the bird, nor can I sneak attack you to deal higher amounts of damage. This game doesn't provide such mechanics and lacks of skill based maneuvers. Instead the real skill-factor in this game is mostly the knowledge about your spells and the right moment to use them. The rest of the game is luck- but mainly equippment-based.
Venos can buy their endgame gear at lvl 1 whilst it is leveling with them. Also you seem to expect that it as a pet - not a character - should be able to outdamage every other class by itself even without a glitched skill, because it costs you about 190$, ignoring the fact that many other people payed more without getting half the effect of a phoenix.0 -
actually I speak for veno's and I dont own a so-called OP nix or herc. Maybe a little less crying and understanding farther then what YOU can see would be a better option. Not all veno's have a nix or herc, so not all veno's have a bugged fleshream, if it is even bugged to start with. Show me the official numbers that say 98% or whatever percentage of veno's that you claim are OP. Matter of fact, still havent seen any statements from the pw staff to back up such claims either.0
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actually I speak for veno's and I dont own a so-called OP nix or herc. Maybe a little less crying and understanding farther then what YOU can see would be a better option. Not all veno's have a nix or herc, so not all veno's have a bugged fleshream, if it is even bugged to start with. Show me the official numbers that say 98% or whatever percentage of veno's that you claim are OP. Matter of fact, still havent seen any statements from the pw staff to back up such claims either.
and I totally agree with Osiris, there is no way I can use 200$ and have something strong as a nix[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
actually I speak for veno's and I dont own a so-called OP nix or herc. Maybe a little less crying and understanding farther then what YOU can see would be a better option. Not all veno's have a nix or herc, so not all veno's have a bugged fleshream, if it is even bugged to start with. Show me the official numbers that say 98% or whatever percentage of veno's that you claim are OP. Matter of fact, still havent seen any statements from the pw staff to back up such claims either.
Flash Ream is bugged on any pet, not only the phoenix. Ist just that it depends on the base attack of the pet, and since the phoenix has by far the highest base attack, people complain about the bird instead of other pets that don't have this kind of attack power.0 -
well i dont use a phoenix. I do not plan on ever owning one either. I do not own a herc either. I choose to play as fair as I can and as balanced as I can. Not all veno's are power hungry morons who take advantages of bugged skills. I dont. Im far from OP. I die just as much as anyone else. i dont pvp because i choose not to. So go ahead and nerf the bird. Do away with it and the herc completely and i wouldnt care honestly. I share equal roles with all classes. We all have specific duties to do our part with. I cant speak for pvp situations but I can in fact speak for veno's because not all veno's are as OP as we are accused of. Complain about the bugs, complain about the players who abuse the bugs, but dont judge everyone based on a few bad apples because it only makes you look stupid. The rest of us who it doesnt effect will only laugh at you in the end for your lack of intelligence and facts.0
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venos nixes glitch yes but the ones who really suffer are archers
really not to defend the venos but every class should have atleast 1 other class that can kill them otherwise 1 class would be totally OP
thats called keeping it ballancedits impossible to always do the right thing we all make mistakes i am not different from that
just try to be a good person
english isn't my native language so there might be a few spelling/grammatical errors in my posts0 -
Ok the question was why do they keep having their skills cut back/down/stopped. Is that not what nerfed means?
Everyone has turned this thread into stuff completely off topic.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
the Pets are overpowered,(which makes the veno overpowered)
no 200$ weapon will make your DPS close to nix.
no 200$ equipment will make you able to solo half the bosses Herc can.
no 200$ equipment will make you do more dmg to skull boss than even a golem.
all that need to be done is fix the bugs on pets
a) Bleed
b) Reduce 75% dmg to skull bosses0 -
Barbariankev - Heavens Tear wrote: »yes your skils lag but stil you are to best pve class no matter what
sure venos without nixes arent so good in pvp but there always should be 1 class that kills another in pvp so losing of a barb no qqing about that
venos are the the easiest class to play its as simple as that i have a veno alt so i have some experience in it
Only to certain point are they better at PvE than most classes. After all that is what they were designed for.
Whos Q_Q about losing to barbs. Easiest to play huh. Get a Veno to 90+ then say there easy to play lol.(joking there somewhat) Ive found my BM and Cleric so far to have been the easiest to play upto lvl 40.actually I speak for veno's and I dont own a so-called OP nix or herc. Maybe a little less crying and understanding farther then what YOU can see would be a better option. Not all veno's have a nix or herc, so not all veno's have a bugged fleshream, if it is even bugged to start with. Show me the official numbers that say 98% or whatever percentage of veno's that you claim are OP. Matter of fact, still havent seen any statements from the pw staff to back up such claims either.TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »u still didn't get the point of the thread and u say I can't read ? <_<
Edit: the only ones defending venos and the bugged flesh realm are for 98% the same venos cuz they wanna keep their OP... the 2% is ppl that dunno a chit about this game
I got the point. Your in that 2% of ppl that dunno a chit about the game.Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »First off, why do you think the phoenix - a pet, not a character - should outdamage archers? A venos damage isn't so gimped that it can be easily ignored - especially since her debuffs make the pet and herself even stronger. .Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »Secondly, the +8 on Blinding Radiance cost $229.50, thats about 40$ more then an average phoenix. And the other equipment + shards doesn't fall from the sky when i flick with my finger, too.
And at last, since you have tried all the classes and are so pro in playing them, tell me how to get my archer so the same efficiency level as you and your nix, without buying 20 apothecary potions using them at the same time, while ignoring their 2 min cooldown, get 5 Spark to triple spark, freeze the nix, cast wings of grace and winged shell while having a genie that is completly adjusted to fight a stupid venos pet that kills me without having to pay any mana not to mention chi? I can't kite while attacking to avoid the bird, nor can I sneak attack you to deal higher amounts of damage. This game doesn't provide such mechanics and lacks of skill based maneuvers. Instead the real skill-factor in this game is mostly the knowledge about your spells and the right moment to use them. The rest of the game is luck- but mainly equippment-based..
I never claimed to be pro at the other classes, but ty for thinking I am. First you tell me where your getting 5 sparks from in the first place other than hacking. If you havent figured out how to deal with nixes by now even after being told how to in all the other threads what the point of telling you for the 1000 time again. You simple wont listen and ignore what you are told. Atleast you have the part of the game being mostly about the knowledge of your skills and knowing when to use them, maybe one day you might that figure out and when to use them. Your right you wouldnt have the chance to kite from me or catch me off guard. Others yes but thats there faults not mine nor is it my classes fault. Goes back to players needing to learn how to play.
So you really want to bring money into. No the only way it costs $229 to +8 your bow if you spent all the money starting at +1 to get there. I've gotten a few gears to +5 without having to use any orbs. And my other gears such as rings and that can be gotten free if you put a little effort into getting them.Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »Venos can buy their endgame gear at lvl 1 whilst it is leveling with them. Also you seem to expect that it as a pet - not a character - should be able to outdamage every other class by itself even without a glitched skill, because it costs you about 190$, ignoring the fact that many other people payed more without getting half the effect of a phoenix.
You do realize that the nix dont become an endgame pet till its leveled to 90 right? Not to mention the simple fact that 95% of Veno did not get the nix at level 1 either. No you are failing to realize that Venos are almost forced to spend that to be on par with the other classes.working it Q_Q
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
BratFury - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ok the question was why do they keep having their skills cut back/down/stopped. Is that not what nerfed means?
Everyone has turned this thread into stuff completely off topic.
Same reason any other game nerfs stuff because some ppl Q_Q to much.working it Q_Q
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Miatemaro - Heavens Tear wrote: »Funny thing you say about that. As before the nix came out the pets where themselves ignored. So you think thats right too? Kinda sad when most classes 20 levels below you pking your class on whims. Now its much closer range and yes you need to be real close to the same level of veno now to kill them. Go ahead ask most ppl as thats what was happening before the introduction to the nixes.
I'm reading the multi language-service forums for about half a year now. They don't have phoenixes in the mall and the funny thing is - no one there is complaining about the veno class being useless! There are still 1 or 2 fleshream-is-broken-threads but no venos seems to feel underpowered.
Instead, in the diskussionthreads about the phoenix and herc, most prople - including venos dislike the idea to implent the battle pets because they think it sounds totally broken.
I never claimed to be pro at the other classes, but ty for thinking I am. First you tell me where your getting 5 sparks from in the first place other than hacking.
Good question. Can you tell me? Because its usually venos that tell me how easy i can beat the bird with only that little efford. I at least had never this amount of spark. But maybe all the people i'm relating to do?
If you havent figured out how to deal with nixes by now even after being told how to in all the other threads what the point of telling you for the 1000 time again.[...]
Hmm, what does everyone tell me about handleing the nix? Oh yeah - ignore it and attack the veno - thats what I usually do. But hey! Wasn't that what you did complain about in your last paragraph? People ignoring your pet?
Anyway, here i go. Thanks god my damage, that is slightly higher then the nix' damage (according to our the uber-veno Zoe, a Robe Veno can easily tank 2 of them) is so insane that I can 1 or 2 shot every veno since my crit rate ist 120%, so i don't have to fear not being able to kill the veno before the nix + fleshream leave a bloody stain at my position.
Another hint some venos that oviously never played as an archer before gave me is, just to knockback the nix and then freeze it for 8 seconds. Sounds great in theory so hey, lets give it a try.
Ok, fist off, I knockback the phoenix. Great, now its 12 meters off me. Just wait for my attack cooldown to run off. Ok here we go. I just start casting and channeling take aim and, wtf, the bird is on my **** again! But... how? Its not like it has an movement speed of more then 10 m/s...
Lets try it vice versa. I freeze it first, haha. I cast take aim and swallow a potions, since the nix has already done 2 attacks. Ok, now that the nix is frozen, i can finally use my knockback arrow. Here we go. What? It didn't work? I didn't miss and the nix is still attacking me?
Yes, thx to the great game mechanic that prevents you from knocking back frozen units it didn't work. The knockback will happen delayed as soon as freeze runs off.
Ok, any other suggestions? I've just run out of ideas.
So you really want to bring money into. No the only way it costs $229 to +8 your bow if you spent all the money starting at +1 to get there. I've gotten a few gears to +5 without having to use any orbs. And my other gears such as rings and that can be gotten free if you put a little effort into getting them.
The chance to get +5 items without dragon orbs is so incredibly low that i doubt you have ever tried it. But as you like to get chances into game - its also possible to get a nix for 100$. Just hope for 50 feathers in all your packs...
You do realize that the nix dont become an endgame pet till its leveled to 90 right? Not to mention the simple fact that 95% of Veno did not get the nix at level 1 either. No you are failing to realize that Venos are almost forced to spend that to be on par with the other classes.
The nix doesn't come as a lvl 90 pet that is usable at lvl 1, right - but it doesn't change the fact the bird will level while you are leveling and will end up as one of your endgame 'items'. You have the advantage over regular pets as soon as you buy it and it hits a level close to you. Other classes can't do that. If i want the advantage of a +8 weapon over a normal weapon from lvl 50 on, i hav to pay 229.50$ every ten levels, since there is no refining transfer.
And as i said, venos don't rely on the phoenix. Just go read the ms forums. Only venos that already got used to the bird and its advantages and forgot that they have a spell that simply wipes off all buffs of the target that doens't even cost chi, a damage amplify debuff that stacks with extreme poison and armor debuffs ect., complain about being weak without the nix.
answers maked in red0 -
Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »answers maked in red
Just a sidenote, you can have two knockbacks, both of which work on Nix. Archer's natural knockback, and also Genie Knockback. Genie Knockback can be used the same time you're charging a skill. Granted... Genie's only works on the ground, though...0 -
Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »Just a sidenote, you can have two knockbacks, both of which work on Nix. Archer's natural knockback, and also Genie Knockback. Genie Knockback can be used the same time you're charging a skill. Granted... Genie's only works on the ground, though...
Thats what i meant. I don't want my genie to be 100% anti phoenix. I already have cauterize, but i don't want it to end with 2 anti bleed skills and another knockback skill that i would only use against the phoenix again.0 -
Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »Thats what i meant. I don't want my genie to be 100% anti phoenix. I already have cauterize, but i don't want it to end with 2 anti bleed skills and another knockback skill that i would only use against the phoenix again.
I can understand. I actually have a Genie just for beating down Venos with the Nix... And it really is sad that it has to be this way. It is possible to defeat the Nix Venos, but it's really BS that you have to jump through hoops to do it. Of course, the counterpoint I know someone will bring up is that all you have to do is Gank the Veno, and problem solved. So... Meh. All I know is that no matter how this turns out, it's going to be ugly. Nix gets nerfed, people are going to QQ. Nix doesn't get nerfed, people are still going to QQ. Veno gets nerfed because of Nix, people are going to get very angry.0 -
I killed a veno like 15 minutes ago...
no idea what level it was, just saw a red named veno running around and attacked her, she went down after a long run.The only way to win is to quit. b:bye0 -
aniway u obiovusly don't know a **** about the other classes, like (almost ?!?) all venos u don't feel to be OP, u actually feel like a squishy that, for some reason, die rarely cuz we are ALL NOOBS and u are the SMART veno that knows how to play and didn't just used 200$ and (omg.. a few hundred k for the flesh realm ? 1M ;O ) and press alt+F1
I'll wait for the day (hopefully it will come one day) for ur bleed to be fixed and then enjoy finally the robe users have a little chance against u[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
blinding radiance itself is probably at least 10mil worth of TT mats, if you want to add that up with the cost in dragon orbs - correct me if i'm wrongElena Costel: I wash my hands of this affair.
Legerity: *drags you back* *stains your hands with said affair*
Elena Costel: Noooo... I don't want to have a dirty affair with Lady Legerity...
Qui: b:dirty0 -
Teartroll - Sanctuary wrote: »in a base damage test you just proved my point, you out damage a phoenix.
your math also has critical errors if it is going to be considered accurate to refute my claim.
-you didnt leave room for possibility to crit
-you can debuff yourself too (IE sometimes you have to use E.Poison to lure)
-demon spark >_>; (THIS IS THE BIG DUH HERE)
Archer use demon spark
Veno use purge
Archer is wth ?
Veno amplify, change form, stun
Nix wins[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I think Venos are fine as they are. The game is reasonably balanced between classes if you take everything into consideration, cost, popularity, fun, difficulty, etc.
If you look at the statistics ie. the PvP rankings, Venos are not the largest in number in the top 50. Archers are by almost 3 to 1 on Lost City. Does that make Archers OP?
First ... let me remind everyone that ANYONE can create a Veno char. So if you think Venos with Nixes have such an advantage just go ahead and make one and spend $200 (or farm forever for it).
I have a Veno with a Nix and Herc on a PvE server, it was painful in time and real money to obtain those pets. (and I have played most of the other classes)
I'm starting another char on a PvP server and it won't be a Veno because I cannot afford another Nix and Herc or the time to farm for one.
Venos are nice to play with a Nix and Herc but they are freakingly expensive either in time to farm the Gold, or in real $. I would be seriously pissed off at PWI if they Nerf Venos any further.0 -
vampirenite wrote: »I think Venos are fine as they are. The game is reasonably balanced between classes if you take everything into consideration, cost, popularity, fun, difficulty, etc.
If you look at the statistics ie. the PvP rankings, Venos are not the largest in number in the top 50. Archers are by almost 3 to 1 on Lost City. Does that make Archers OP?
First ... let me remind everyone that ANYONE can create a Veno char. So if you think Venos with Nixes have such an advantage just go ahead and make one and spend $200 (or farm forever for it).
I have a Veno with a Nix and Herc on a PvE server, it was painful in time and real money to obtain those pets. (and I have played most of the other classes)
I'm starting another char on a PvP server and it won't be a Veno because I cannot afford another Nix and Herc or the time to farm for one.
Venos are nice to play with a Nix and Herc but they are freakingly expensive either in time to farm the Gold, or in real $. I would be seriously pissed off at PWI if they Nerf Venos any further.
1) pvp rankings... most of those archers are ppl that spend the days in Sp or hidden orchid killing 30+, u can't rely on those
2) anyone can do it, I know, that's why most servers are overpopulated by venos, go to a random city and check it by urself
3) venos are by far the richest class, no repairs, no pots, grinding is easy as hell with the pet taking damage and u can kill mobs faster than melee classes at 70 using a 40 weapon, farm the cash for a herc (and with the herc farm cash for the Nix) is not hard as u may think
4) I don't really want the venos to be nerfed, I want the Nix nerfed, that would be all for me... the bugged pet attack against [?] mobs is another thing
Edit: and u know that with "Nix" i mean especially the flesh realm[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »Archer use demon spark
Veno use purge
Archer is wth ?
Veno amplify, change form, stun
Nix wins
Purge: 2.7 seconds (cast/channel)
Amplify: 2.7 seconds (cast/channel)
Change form: Instant
Lucky Scarab: 2.3 Seconds
So, the archer is standing there doing nothing for....7.7 seconds?
In the time it takes to Purge the Archer the archer still has time to get a skill off, and if the veno was at max range for Purge/Amp, then they will take full damage from the Archer (with normal DR, of course).
Oh, and the Archer can cast Stunning Arrow with a 90% chance to stun before the purge goes off.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Purge: 2.7 seconds (cast/channel)
Amplify: 2.7 seconds (cast/channel)
Change form: Instant
Lucky Scarab: 2.3 Seconds
So, the archer is standing there doing nothing for....7.7 seconds?
In the time it takes to Purge the Archer the archer still has time to get a skill off, and if the veno was at max range for Purge/Amp, then they will take full damage from the Archer (with normal DR, of course).
Oh, and the Archer can cast Stunning Arrow with a 90% chance to stun before the purge goes off.
That also assumes the Veno was in Fox to begin with, Lazerz. Because if they had to switch to Fox to cast Purge, they have to wait 6 seconds to switch back, bringing the time to 8.3 seconds instead. Something screams dead Veno to me...0 -
I don't remember saying anything about taking on 2 birds at once, I think that was Mia when he actually did it.
I just say I kill the bird before it gets near me, which I do. Only time I got hit by bleed I didn't even try to heal. I just watched my hp as a test and realised I could have used hp pots and not died (provided nothing else at all hit me during the bleed duration) I'm arcane with less than 5k hp unbuffed and thats what I found when I got hit with this level 5 skill.
Is flesh ream on pets overpowered? Yes it most certainly is and I will always want it to be reduced.
Is it as bad as people like to say? No, players seem to often exaggerate. The attack is managable if you play it right but the fact remains the skill is indeed overpowered and needs a fix.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »That also assumes the Veno was in Fox to begin with, Lazerz. Because if they had to switch to Fox to cast Purge, they have to wait 6 seconds to switch back, bringing the time to 8.3 seconds instead. Something screams dead Veno to me...
Oh, I know, but if the archer has Stunning Shot up, and the stun hits, it doesn't matter. It really comes down to the situation, who has a better twitch response among other things.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Purge: 2.7 seconds (cast/channel)
Amplify: 2.7 seconds (cast/channel)
Change form: Instant
Lucky Scarab: 2.3 Seconds
So, the archer is standing there doing nothing for....7.7 seconds?
In the time it takes to Purge the Archer the archer still has time to get a skill off, and if the veno was at max range for Purge/Amp, then they will take full damage from the Archer (with normal DR, of course).
Oh, and the Archer can cast Stunning Arrow with a 90% chance to stun before the purge goes off.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »what a sea of ****
1) pvp rankings... most of those archers are ppl that spend the days in Sp or hidden orchid killing 30+, u can't rely on those
2) anyone can do it, I know, that's why most servers are overpopulated by venos, go to a random city and check it by urself
3) venos are by far the richest class, no repairs, no pots, grinding is easy as hell with the pet taking damage and u can kill mobs faster than melee classes at 70 using a 40 weapon, farm the cash for a herc (and with the herc farm cash for the Nix) is not hard as u may think
4) I don't really want the venos to be nerfed, I want the Nix nerfed, that would be all for me... the bugged pet attack against [?] mobs is another thing
Edit: and u know that with "Nix" i mean especially the flesh realm
For someone on a PvE server, what makes you the PvP expert?
2) top ranking by level are also fairly evenly distributed. I'm not disputing that Veno's aren't a fun class, but at higher levels where the serious PvP and serious players are things start to shake out.
3) the economics of a Veno with Herc/Nix are often misunderstood. Time=Money. Take $200 convert it to coin or buy popular Cash shop items ~ 24Mil coin. Put those items in catshop at a 5-10% return per day, (quite achievable if you know what you are doing.) you get 1.2-2.4 Mil coin per day for doing nothing. Pays for a heck of a lot of repairs and pots.
Meanwhile as a Veno the moment you buy a Nix or Herc it has depreciated to 0, since it cannot be transferred or sold. Requires skill upgrades and expensive food.0 -
OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Oh, I know, but if the archer has Stunning Shot up, and the stun hits, it doesn't matter. It really comes down to the situation, who has a better twitch response among other things.
Hmm, the venos lucky scarab + pounce combi ist way stronger then the archers stunning arrow. Additionaly to the 10% fail chance, the arrow can miss either what decreases the actual stun chance of this skill.
Anyway, i was trying to do some maths with magic triple sparks on venos, but i don't really get how it works. According to ecatomb it increases both the weapon damage and the magic attack, what would end up as an insanely high attack, when using following formular.
Magical Attack Formula:
( 1 + ( MAG / 100 ) ) * ( LVL + EQP )
lvl 90 veno with an average weapon damage of 1000 and 300 int
650% weapon damage
Average Magic Attack: ( 1 + 300/100 + 6.5) * ( 90 + 1000 )
700% Magic Attack
Average Magic Attack: ( ( 1 + 300/100 + 6.5) * ( 90 + 1000 )) * 7
That would be like 80115 magic attack without the other modifier from spells you get. Can anyone tell me how i messed this up please?0 -
It's clearly not a flat increase based on what the spark says. That much power would enable you to 1 shot barbs which is simply unacceptable. I'll test it right now.
Magic attack of 5233 - 6029 with no buffs.
Magic attack of 14,944 - 17,216 with sage spark.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »It's clearly not a flat increase based on what the spark says. That much power would enable you to 1 shot barbs which is simply unacceptable. I'll test it right now.
Magic attack of 5233 - 6029 with no buffs.
Magic attack of 14,944 - 17,216 with sage spark.
14k damage, no critical dead[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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