Why do they keep nerfing Venos?! :(

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

No, what Isala says is very true. Don't start **** when you haven't tried it.

like ?
10 char

Zoe - Heavens Tear

The prices of TT mats are now so low its not worth it to solo it for a veno.

Magic weapons can't take melee well and their durability drops crazy fast. I used foxform in a TT once and ended up with a barbs repair bill.

Damage over time attacks do not effect armor so if you fight things that only do those skills you will never have armor repairs. That cleric is a true example.

If you want to run multipule armor sets on a veno you have to play it right to cover everything or you will just **** yourself over in stats. Not to mention the huge cost of getting 2 or 3 sets of armor and refining all of it.

I don't even have a million coins right now. I'm hardly rich and I'm a level 92 veno that grinds all day. Even though I could have a lot I just keep spending it on things like fashion.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

1) 3-1 is easy to soloable with a herc, and as far as I know the Giant beast armors are making a lot of venos rich, add possibles giant beast's shells annals etc. etc.

2) why the hell u should use melee with a magic weapon, if u think beating enemies in fox form is cool u are wrong, and u take the consequences

3) armors for a veno are just to survive in tw/pk, u can easy go PvE with crappy weapons and equipments, so that's ur call, and u don't NEED refines

4) not my fault

Zoe - Heavens Tear

The drop rate on the beast armor is quite low. I've been on many many runs with no drops of it.

We have no choice but to melee with a magic weapon. You have to use a magic weapon to use foxform. Are you telling us to totally ignore an entire skill tree?

No we can't go with crappy gear in pve. This is proof you have not played a veno to a high enough level to find out.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The drop rate on the beast armor is quite low. I've been on many many runs with no drops of it.

We have no choice but to melee with a magic weapon. You have to use a magic weapon to use foxform. Are you telling us to totally ignore an entire skill tree?

No we can't go with crappy gear in pve. This is proof you have not played a veno to a high enough level to find out.

1) so what, u are alone inside that tt, if u drop 1-2 thats good enough

2) yes, how many venos do u see running around using fox form and attacking with other skills except purge and amplify ?

3) I have a level 70 veno with (till a few days ago) a 40 weapon and 30 rank armors, and I still kill every mob twice as fast than my barb, and I made M just by grinding, so yeah

Bladecutter - Sanctuary

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

QFT.

And, for sheer arguments sake, call it a hybrid who usually specializes in fighting in Fox Form. You are now buying ALL the skills, and having a MUCH higher repair cost than the caster. Magic weapons do NOT like taking a beating. Those weapons break at an astounding speed. At my level, as the aforementioned hybrid fox, I get a repair cost of about 25k an hour, and that's just simply grinding. If I'm taking hits, which I usually end up doing during an FB run, I'll have repair costs of 35k plus for most of the FB runs I do. That's approaching Barb costs. Throw in the skills for my pets, and the tome I have, which is level 3, by the way. Not to mention the fact that I'm an LA/AA build, which requires very planned out gear to not suck.

I know a cleric who AoE grinds mobs that would eat me in seconds. I'm referring to Petalis. Wood mob, poison DoT. Scares me to death to get more than 2 on me, yet this cleric, alone, and unaided, gathers 6 or more to just decimate. Guess who levels faster...

umm, lets see, 25k grind an hour? i get about 40k a hour, and not a barb, in a fb i get more or less depending on it, but, going into a 19 or a 39 and compare it with an hour of grinding it should be less not more, barb cost for tanking are... how to say it... expensive? 50k~ if youre lucky. everyone needs good gear, not only you, and, believe me, my weapon doesnt brokes fast, but costs a lot, in average TT i have 20-30k repairs in my wep only, without counting my armor that takes a 2k repair each piece

about he aoe ginds mobs that you cant.. thats like saying, oh, phy mobs hurt me more than they hurt barbs, of course they do!

the cleric purifys himself to avoid dots, and, you can aoe grind other types of monsters if you have a herc, btw, about your tome, if you want to make it lvl 3 its your decision, other classes need it more than venos cus we dont have pets to take our hits

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

1) so what, u are alone inside that tt, if u drop 1-2 thats good enough

2) yes, how many venos do u see running around using fox form and attacking with other skills except purge and amplify ?

3) I have a level 70 veno with (till a few days ago) a 40 weapon and 30 rank armors, and I still kill every mob twice as fast than my barb, and I made M just by grinding, so yeah

1.) If you get 1-2 drops out of multiple (more than 3) runs, was it worth the time invested?

2.) Apparently, there are more than a few Fox Form venos running around killing mobs with melee skill because they actually are cool like that.

3.) Why are you comparing a venomancer with one that is nortorious for having one of the, if not the, slowest kill rate in the game?

DMistress - Heavens Tear

Of course venos have expenses too, but its not getting anywhere near as any other class.

In a balanced game, each class should have advantages and disadvantages.

What disadvantages veno with herc and nix have?

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Nakumi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

as for how soloing automaticly means more money... well thats just fail because there are ways other then farming coin off mobs or selling TT mats to make money...

Soloing means you dont have to share/divide anything. If you want tomes go make friends and go to rebirth duh. Hows that fail? What otherways are there to make coins that doesnt involve killing monsters/bosses then? Gold selling is something everyone can do so that is a invalid point to argue. Your just grasping at straws now. As for costs of pets people can spend 400 dollars on their gear and still be no where near our money making potential. Q.Q herc costs 20 mill so what we can make way more money then anyone else and we can solo most bosses. Q.Q nix costs 20 mill our pet has higher dps then a friggen archer with a sling. You do know its optional to buy those pets.....its like someone complaining waaaa im so poor after buying 3 mill worth of fashion. Q.Q pet food wow like how many times does your pet die b4 you know you cant do it. When your lvl 38 you should of killed vipons near swiftwind they drop fine meat (i still have 103 fine meat from this) at a good rate or heck make a lvl 1-5 alt to go kill those stupid Rhinodrakes outside lost. Q.Q hay go buy wild ginseng (200 loyalty) for gods sake who cares if its 15k (on sanctuary its cheaper then fodder) for one its more cost effective then the fodder 20 loyalty. Learn to play please.

BTW how this thread turn from them nerfing venos to whose the more cost effective class o.O ?

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

DMistress - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Of course venos have expenses too, but its not getting anywhere near as any other class.

In a balanced game, each class should have advantages and disadvantages.

What disadvantages veno with herc and nix have?

Not every veno has a herc or a nix.

Isala - Sanctuary

Bladecutter - Sanctuary wrote: »

umm, lets see, 25k grind an hour? i get about 40k a hour, and not a barb, in a fb i get more or less depending on it, but, going into a 19 or a 39 and compare it with an hour of grinding it should be less not more, barb cost for tanking are... how to say it... expensive? 50k~ if youre lucky. everyone needs good gear, not only you, and, believe me, my weapon doesnt brokes fast, but costs a lot, in average TT i have 20-30k repairs in my wep only, without counting my armor that takes a 2k repair each piece

about he aoe ginds mobs that you cant.. thats like saying, oh, phy mobs hurt me more than they hurt barbs, of course they do!

the cleric purifys himself to avoid dots, and, you can aoe grind other types of monsters if you have a herc, btw, about your tome, if you want to make it lvl 3 its your decision, other classes need it more than venos cus we dont have pets to take our hits

I wasn't saying I have humongous repair costs like a Barb, I simply said I come close. I'm well aware that the real melee classes blow my costs out of the water, and that your gear is also expensive, because you guys need the best to do what you do so very well, which is take hits, and dish them out. Me, I'm just a fuzzy ankle biter. I chew on the mobs while smacking them with things to make it so they can't fight back, not crush them with overwhelming power. That's your job.b:victory

I wasn't really complaining about clerics AoE grinding., I was just bringing up a point that while people call Clerics a fail solo class, they're really quite good at what they do. Also, Melee mobs have to hit me first. *points to sig*

Oh, indeed. I know all about AoE grinding. I do it all the time on Melee mobs. Fox Form + Mist + Leech = 5 mobs at one time. I have no Herc. As for my tome, it has to be level 3 because otherwise, I couldn't equip my weapon at my level.

Before anyone misunderstands my intention, I'm completely happy with the way I play. I can do things most Venos wouldn't consider doing in their worst nightmare, and as a result, I end up with the downside. I'm cool with it. I really find it fun to play the way I do. I'm not complaining about it, I was simply pointing out "Hey, there are more ways to do things than most people realize."

For instance: Barb's killing speed. Yes, we realize it sucks. Killing mobs takes a lot longer for a tank build barb than it does for almost everyone. But there are also DPS builds out there, plowing through those exact same mobs. However, you should look at it another way, and use the strengths of your class. Tank builds do one thing well. Take hits. Which means that they could take on several melee mobs at the same time. Which means, that while they won't quite approach the AoE grindability of a type of BM, they can still do a decent job of it. Of course, the side effect is the increased repair cost from being hit by a lot of enemies, so you'd have to figure out a way to compensate, but explore it a bit. Saying that you don't match a character in something they excel at is kinda silly, when they can't even come close to you in other areas.

Chocooo - Lost City

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Not every veno has a herc or a nix.

So that's the only disadvantage a veno has?
Because "not every veno has a herc or a nix", its the disadvantage?
I don't think you're quite seeing it.
No other class can buy an item and say "Now I have no disadvantages".

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Chocooo - Lost City wrote: »

So that's the only disadvantage a veno has?
Because "not every veno has a herc or a nix", its the disadvantage?
I don't think you're quite seeing it.
No other class can buy an item and say "Now I have no disadvantages".

Are you trying to be obtuse?

Isala - Sanctuary

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Are you trying to be obtuse?

I don't think so, OMG. I thought it was acute response.

*cough* And despite the wording, there is a point there, about the Cash Shop pets, which people are going to fight about until the end of time...

Chocooo - Lost City

Teartroll - Sanctuary wrote: »

hes right, not every veno has one.

even then, we still cant kill as fast as other classes, cant tank as well as barb + cleric, still die in a few melee hits.

we have plenty of disadvantages, the list goes on and on, they dont grant invincibility.

Great.
So what the veno really wants, is to be able to tank as well as a barb can.
And to be able to take as much damage as a barb can.
That's the disadvantages you claim?

You've become the second best tank in the game.
You've become the best pvp in the game.
You can solo TT runs faster than a barb+cleric can because your pets do not suffer a damage reduction on the boss.
You do not have high repair costs.
Yet, you can make money at the same rate as other classes.

Is invincibility what you'd call an advantage?

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Chocooo - Lost City wrote: »

Great.
So what the veno really wants, is to be able to tank as well as a barb can.
And to be able to take as much damage as a barb can.
That's the disadvantages you claim?

You've become the second best tank in the game.
You've become the best pvp in the game.
You can solo TT runs faster than a barb+cleric can because your pets do not suffer a damage reduction on the boss.
You do not have high repair costs.
Yet, you can make money at the same rate as other classes.

Is invincibility what you'd call an advantage?

Isala is right, you're not being obtuse, you're pushing an agenda.

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Veno pets are the only things in the game that totally ignore not 1 but 3 different types of damage reduction.

1) Air to ground 50% damage reduction
- venos are the only class that effectively kill ground mobs from the air
2) PVP 75% damage reduction
- in pvp pheonix flesh ream is a stronger DOT than the strongest player DOT: Demon Stormrage Eagleon (2 spark level 99 archer skill)
3) [?] level 150 mobs 75% damage reduction
- I have heard of a single nix veno being able to KS a world boss by outdamaging a squad of 4 non-venos

Anyone who thinks these are not bugs is just kidding themselves. Just look at that list, look hard and try to come up with some ridiculous justification for pets to ignore the rules that all other classes follow. What we have here is a clear case of sloppy coding. If you can look at that list and honestly think that veno pets aren't plain broken you must be delusional.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Veno pets are the only things in the game that totally ignore not 1 but 3 different types of damage reduction.

1) Air to ground 50% damage reduction
- venos are the only class that effectively kill ground mobs from the air
2) PVP 75% damage reduction
- in pvp pheonix flesh ream is a stronger DOT than the strongest player DOT: Demon Stormrage Eagleon (2 spark level 99 archer skill)
3) [?] level 150 mobs 75% damage reduction
- I have heard of a single nix veno being able to KS a world boss by outdamaging a squad of 4 non-venos

Anyone who thinks these are not bugs is just kidding themselves. Just look at that list, look hard and try to come up with some ridiculous justification for pets to ignore the rules that all other classes follow. What we have here is a clear case of sloppy coding. If you can look at that list and honestly think that veno pets aren't plain broken you must be delusional.

or a veno lol

Solandri - Heavens Tear

Chocooo - Lost City wrote: »

Great.
So what the veno really wants, is to be able to tank as well as a barb can.
And to be able to take as much damage as a barb can.
That's the disadvantages you claim?

Pulling off a Strawman argument requires a bit more finesse than you're exhibiting.

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

I wasn't saying I have humongous repair costs like a Barb, I simply said I come close. I'm well aware that the real melee classes blow my costs out of the water, and that your gear is also expensive, because you guys need the best to do what you do so very well, which is take hits, and dish them out.

I play a heavy fox too, and yeah my weapon takes a really big beating (our magic swords swing 1.25 times/sec so they wear down nearly twice as fast as the barb's axes or hammers).

For regular grinding, you can switch to lower cost equipment to save on repair bills. The 1-star stuff has about 70% the cost of the 3-star stuff, and less than half the cost of the legendary. No need to use your best equipment on easy mobs. (And as a heavy fox, I lug around 2 complete sets of equipment, so don't whine to me about how much it costs or how inconvenient it is.)

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Veno pets are the only things in the game that totally ignore not 1 but 3 different types of damage reduction.

1) Air to ground 50% damage reduction
- venos are the only class that effectively kill ground mobs from the air
2) PVP 75% damage reduction
- in pvp pheonix flesh ream is a stronger DOT than the strongest player DOT: Demon Stormrage Eagleon (2 spark level 99 archer skill)
3) [?] level 150 mobs 75% damage reduction
- I have heard of a single nix veno being able to KS a world boss by outdamaging a squad of 4 non-venos

I thought (1) was a 50% reduction on ranged attacks, and melee wasn't affected? If you're in melee range (all air pets attack from melee range), the mob can obviously fight back, so there's no point reducing damage by 50%. If player melee damage is reduced when in the air, then I'd say veno pets are behaving correctly and it's player melee damage which is bugged.

Agreed that (2) and (3) make no sense. But then, I don't think the skills which let you kill while AFK (e.g. the core Zhen skills) make sense either.

Isala - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Veno pets are the only things in the game that totally ignore not 1 but 3 different types of damage reduction.

1) Air to ground 50% damage reduction
- venos are the only class that effectively kill ground mobs from the air
2) PVP 75% damage reduction
- in pvp pheonix flesh ream is a stronger DOT than the strongest player DOT: Demon Stormrage Eagleon (2 spark level 99 archer skill)
3) [?] level 150 mobs 75% damage reduction
- I have heard of a single nix veno being able to KS a world boss by outdamaging a squad of 4 non-venos

Anyone who thinks these are not bugs is just kidding themselves. Just look at that list, look hard and try to come up with some ridiculous justification for pets to ignore the rules that all other classes follow. What we have here is a clear case of sloppy coding. If you can look at that list and honestly think that veno pets aren't plain broken you must be delusional.

<<<< Veno, and won't argue with it. All points are valid, and correct.

TeegraSwan - Sanctuary

I'm confused here, I'm a veno, and a barb that is 10 levels lower than me can kill me easily, even when I have my pet and genie equiped. Explain to me how we're invincible

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

TeegraSwan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm confused here, I'm a veno, and a barb that is 10 levels lower than me can kill me easily, even when I have my pet and genie equiped. Explain to me how we're invincible

.....................*looks far down at the lv25 veno....* ._.;;; i think their talking more about later lvls

As in question: Why do they keep on nerfing Venos!?
....
......
.............why not? b:pleased

chipsing1234

Isala - Sanctuary wrote: »

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Veno pets are the only things in the game that totally ignore not 1 but 3 different types of damage reduction.

1) Air to ground 50% damage reduction
- venos are the only class that effectively kill ground mobs from the air
2) PVP 75% damage reduction
- in pvp pheonix flesh ream is a stronger DOT than the strongest player DOT: Demon Stormrage Eagleon (2 spark level 99 archer skill)
3) [?] level 150 mobs 75% damage reduction
- I have heard of a single nix veno being able to KS a world boss by outdamaging a squad of 4 non-venos

Anyone who thinks these are not bugs is just kidding themselves. Just look at that list, look hard and try to come up with some ridiculous justification for pets to ignore the rules that all other classes follow. What we have here is a clear case of sloppy coding. If you can look at that list and honestly think that veno pets aren't plain broken you must be delusional.

<<<< Veno, and won't argue with it. All points are valid, and correct.

So, what's the argument here? Even with the few PvP "nerfs," venos still shine at PvE and PvP with nixes. Leveling the playing field, yeah right.

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

.....................*looks far down at the lv25 veno....* ._.;;; i think their talking more about later lvls

As in question: Why do they keep on nerfing Venos!?
....
......
.............why not? b:pleased

Off topic but..........Deceptistar how did you get all those perfect shards in your armor?b:dirty

Thc - Harshlands

TeegraSwan - Sanctuary wrote: »

I'm confused here, I'm a veno, and a barb that is 10 levels lower than me can kill me easily, even when I have my pet and genie equiped. Explain to me how we're invincible

People just like to talk bs about venos being OP.
get to lvl 90, load 400 dollar in this game, spend it on ur gear and you are OP too.

Stickygreen - Heavens Tear

Thc - Harshlands wrote: »

People just like to talk bs about venos being OP.
get to lvl 90, load 400 dollar in this game, spend it on ur gear and you are OP too.

venos can do this also. the "spend 200$ on your armour" bs doesnt work. nix is a veno-only CS item that enhances their gameplay. that only THEY can get. THEY can also drop 200$ into their gear.


and 200$ at 100 wont do **** for any class other than a barb against a nix. or vit build bms.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

Thc - Harshlands wrote: »

People just like to talk bs about venos being OP.
get to lvl 90, load 400 dollar in this game, spend it on ur gear and you are OP too.

400 not enough to be OP :O

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Thc - Harshlands wrote: »

People just like to talk bs about venos being OP.
get to lvl 90, load 200 dollar in this game, spend it on ur gear and you are OP too.

You are too delusional......90 gear to make them all +5 you will spend 200 dollars + already and will still get **** by a nix with bleed only exception is Barb.

Deceptistar - Sanctuary

_makina_ - Sanctuary wrote: »

You are too delusional......90 gear to make them all +5 you will spend 200 dollars + already and will still get **** by a nix with bleed only exception is Barb.

Or better yet some pple need 400 just to MAKE the TT90 full set lol, not even gonna count how much to shard and refine at the same time D=

Off topic but..........Deceptistar how did you get all those perfect shards in your armor?

Totally bought out all the beautiful shards back when they had the beautiful shards/jiaozi/low lv mold/scarlet fruit event lol. Spring Pack was it?

_makina_ - Sanctuary

Deceptistar - Sanctuary wrote: »

Totally bought out all the beautiful shards back when they had the beautiful shards/jiaozi/low lv mold/scarlet fruit event lol. Spring Pack was it?

Omg im so jealous......that is very smart of you.