Why do they keep nerfing Venos?! :(

Xdmghyper - Lost City wrote: »

ok so far i know that the following skills have been nerfed:

1) swimming speed skills ( i want my money and sp back pls )

2) bramble guard and hood reflect skills dont work for pvp anymore!! b:cry

3) ok this last one i just noticed today after some testing, when u summon pet and put it on shield mode it doesnt work for pvp anymore , only pve. b:angry

im so upset coz they never told us when they nerfed it and we must discover the secrets for ourselves....b:surrender

if anyone knows anything else thats been nerfed pls share with us. thanks!!

1)IT IS NOW FIXED GO JUMP IN A PUDDLE AND SEE FOR URSELF

2)BRAMBLE HOOD HAS NEVER (IN THE 5 YEARS THIS GAME HAS BEEN RUNNING) REFLECTED MELEE DAMAGE IN OPEN PVP (NOT DUELS) SO STOP COMPLAINING. This seriously would be overpowered if a bm dragons u then hits would hit u 2k but u bramble hood. He now hits u 500 and hits himself 4k and since bm skills are fast he would probably hit twice before he stopped. You have taken 1k damage he has dealt 8k to himself + pet attacks +your attacks. Your bramble hood is a survival skill like turtle for barb it takes 2 sparks but u are basically unkillable for the next 15 seconds.

3)Big deal now like EVERY OTHER CLASS you can be umped and have to actually target and click skills to fight back

Nakumi - Dreamweaver wrote: »

but to be fair the venos spend $200+ or 20mil+ to buy these pets

and the other classes like barbs that spent millions in misty rings, and in other expensive stuff, does that didnt count?

sage0nemage wrote: »

Lol even Venomancers like to QQ, you have a bugged bird as mentioned - QQ rights taken away -

I don't own a Herc or Nix, yet I'm nerfed in duels because I can't use those skills either. My only defence against a BM used to be Bramble Hood. I don't use it in PvE because I actually have a pet that can keep aggro and know how to use it.
Stop saying veno's are all overpowered! Some of us can't afford Gold to buy pets or don't have the time to constantly farm coin.
b:angry

FoxRunning - Heavens Tear wrote: »

veno's afraid of water? guess you never heard of water pets....how do you think we hunt underwater mobs?
*CHOMP*[/COLOR]

Umm I dont have a waterpet, waste of pet bag. I always have my friends help me out under water :P Waterpets suck...
And yea Im a kitty veno and cats dislike water, So do I o.o

About the whole veno is OP thing;
We have the bloody right to be. Since the prices from SoF and PF are going up quickly, one pet costs about 20-25 mil already. Do you all know how hard we work to get this? And did you notice how Legendary magic weps are way more expensive then phys ones? (Also for wizzies and clerics btw) And what about the arcane build veno? The leg light leggings (Dark shinguards of hedes) cost like what? 200-300k? However the arcane one, for almost the same lvl, is like over 3m. 2m if your lucky.

Yea we veno's might be the class who makes the most money, but we are also the ones who spend most.

Edit: Channeling gear is expensive too!

Teartroll - Sanctuary wrote: »

it is balanced, it anything it means we need to cash or spend 20m to even consider doing damage close to our 89+ compatriots. go put a demon archer vs a phoenix in a DD contest. the only place phoenix will win is world bosses.

See this is where the venos' argument's are misplaced. The only thing that archers have going for them is the fact they can deal good damage. We have no heal skill, 2 defense skills (one disappears after one shot 70+, the other only has 30% reduction), then a weak stun, a paralyze and 2 slow attacks. The rest of our skills are DD (even our 79/100 skills are the worst out of all classes).

And yet you are able to compare a veno of the same level as a rival DDer? While venos are the only class able to solo TT and quite a few fbs. They have an easy time grinding (I said easy time, not high speed, other classes are faster but they have to worry about own health, EQ costs etc). And now with the advantage of the things I mentioned they are feared in PvP and can rival the main DDer's in the game.

Not to mention they have a spot in most high level fbs/dungeon parties as a puller. Archers are the least wanted as we can't tank magic/phys bosses (Wizards can tank magic, some good bms can tank phys), can't heal, can't pull effectively etc....

I'm not making this post to QQ about venos being overpowered, because as I stated (in bold) in my other post they aren't. It is the fact that PWE have willingly made venos unbalanced.

I used to play MY-EN a long time ago before the introduction of nixes/hercs. Back then it was much more balanced, the buggy pet flesh ream was still there but it was manageable not on a nix. Veno's were a weak class in PvP (not ridiculously though) and they were a strong class in PvE. That's called balance...

Being the stupidly strong in PvE AND having a massive advantage over others in PvP makes it unbalanced.

(Disclaimer, this post is in response to a post directed at my previous post. That post argued that venos were unbalanced because 1) bugged flesh ream, 2) venos have extra cash shop items. NOT QQing that venos were overpowered)

EDIT:

Thelegion - Lost City wrote: »

QQ.... poor archer... i will love see u whitout PlumeShield if that got nerfed in PvP

OH MY GOD..... You cannot respond like this when you have no experience on the class. For starters archers don't use plume shield they use winged shell (2 completely different skills).

Plume shield ALWAYS lasts 20 secs and reduces all damage to 80% at the expense of mana. (cleric skill)
Winged Shell lasts up to 20 secs but it BREAKS if a certain amount of damage is blocked. (Archer skill)

At level 10 that damage is 810, oh wow.... So winged shell can be broken with 1 skill that doesn't even have to be a crit.... Also winged shell doesn't negate DoT skills. *hint hint*

To give you a simple version answer to your question:

Too many people are upset that the veno class seems to be OP. Not that I think they are or aren't, but that would be why things keep being nerfed.

Even if skills don't work in PvP, unless you specifically bought them for PvP it is not a waste as you will use them in game on your veno.

Is it fair, probably not. I don't agree one way or the other so much as I'm from a PvE server and have never even been in PK mode. But if you search through the forums there are probably 100 posts on venos with all pros/cons listed.

Xdmghyper - Lost City wrote: »

ok so far i know that the following skills have been nerfed:

1) swimming speed skills ( i want my money and sp back pls )

2) bramble guard and hood reflect skills dont work for pvp anymore!! b:cry

3) ok this last one i just noticed today after some testing, when u summon pet and put it on shield mode it doesnt work for pvp anymore , only pve. b:angry

im so upset coz they never told us when they nerfed it and we must discover the secrets for ourselves....b:surrender

if anyone knows anything else thats been nerfed pls share with us. thanks!!

seriously just cry cry cry. if you cant figure out how to kill a veno go learn to play. wow not like its very difficult for any class to kill a veno. you have to use different tactics than other characters. guess what everyone has to use different tactics against different classes. seriously i could give you tactics for each class that would help you to beat a veno 95% of the time but every time i have tried to give people hints on how to all they do is whine and say...i cant win. nix OP. QQ. give me warsoul. waaaaaaaaaaa. blah blah blah.

Starrr - Harshlands wrote: »

seriously just cry cry cry. if you cant figure out how to kill a veno go learn to play. wow not like its very difficult for any class to kill a veno. you have to use different tactics than other characters. guess what everyone has to use different tactics against different classes. seriously i could give you tactics for each class that would help you to beat a veno 95% of the time but every time i have tried to give people hints on how to all they do is whine and say...i cant win. nix OP. QQ. give me warsoul. waaaaaaaaaaa. blah blah blah.

Go roll a mage, then solo-kill a nix veno of your same level and post pic here on the forums.

Theorycrafting does not equal actual combat.

mbrunestud wrote: »

while you guys complain about how nerfed bramble hood is, consider the following:

Stormrage Eagleon Level 10
Ranged Attack
Mana: 387.0
Channel: 1.5 seconds
Cast: 0.8 seconds
Cooldown: 30.0 seconds

Requisite Cultivation: Transcendant
A magical bird of prey dashes at your enemy, inflicting
Metal damage equal to base physical damage. Lasts 30 seconds,
during which the enemy suffers 11151.2 Metal damage
and is slowed by 30%.

Requires 1 arrow, bolt or unit of shot.
Requires two Sparks

b:cry

Wow... That's like the Perfect World equivalent of sneezing on someone. You do what, 300 or so damage a second BEFORE the Damage Reduction?

Starrr - Harshlands wrote: »

seriously just cry cry cry. if you cant figure out how to kill a veno go learn to play. wow not like its very difficult for any class to kill a veno. you have to use different tactics than other characters. guess what everyone has to use different tactics against different classes. seriously i could give you tactics for each class that would help you to beat a veno 95% of the time but every time i have tried to give people hints on how to all they do is whine and say...i cant win. nix OP. QQ. give me warsoul. waaaaaaaaaaa. blah blah blah.

Hi Wiz here. Wanna try to tell me that I can take on nix's my level? Unless I am extremely lucky and the veno isn't paying attention I lose. If the bleed doesn't kill me the birds phys atk will. I can't deal enough damage to kill it quick enough without undine before they get a chance to heal it b:surrender. I have many friends who I practice against their nix's and the best I can do is holy path away. Don't go talking about all classes when you obviously don't know how every class works. While it is true that 80+ wiz's can beat the bird I am not 80+ yet and most wiz's aren't there. I agree veno's are cake, but we are not fighting just the person.

P.S. Gimmie Warsoul b:cry b:chuckle

Piliener - Lost City wrote: »

Hi Wiz here. Wanna try to tell me that I can take on nix's my level? Unless I am extremely lucky and the veno isn't paying attention I lose. If the bleed doesn't kill me the birds phys atk will.

Yes you can. Im gonna discuss this part right here that I bolded and underlined in your quote. If you're dieing to the physical attack of a nix of the same level of you, YOU FAIL. When I was lvl 86 I asked a friend to put the BS out the door by proving how stupid ppl were she was a lvl 72 cleric unbuffed and was only hit for 481 damge. Thats the damage from a nix 14 lvls above. Guess what at that range a lvl 60 HP pot cuts that down by 1/3. Now for the bleed of a nix at YOUR lvl. IT IS NOT MAX DAMAGED. And does about 1600 damage a tick which btw takes 1 sec from the time it hits before it ticks off. More than enough time during which ur macro attack is going that u can use a purge pot or ur genie skill blood clot now.

Osiris - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I'm sure a veno with a nix will out-dps archers easily...

Do the maths:

An lvl 90 archer with a Radiance +8 with 2 g8 shards, 2 Rings of the Heavenly Lord, +75 Arrows and 400 Dex (361 base dex + 15 from Blinding Radiance and 24 from other EQ)

Mastery: 75% demon

Min Weapon Damage: 670 + 100 + 260 + 2*40 + 2*110 + 75 = 1405
Max Weapon Damage: 1562 + 100 + 260 + 2*40 + 2*110 + 75 = 2297

Min PAtk = (1 + (2*400)/300 + 0.75) * (1405 + 90) = 4.417 * 1495 = 6603
Max PAtk = (1 + (2*400)/300 + 0.75) * (2297+ 90) = 4.417 * 2387 = 10543

Critical Hit Multiplier: 1.27 (27%)
Attack Rate Multiplier: 0.62

Average Damage / Second: (6603 + 10543)/2 = 8573 * 1.27 * 0.62

Archers dps: 6751
Phoenix' dps: 4096*1.3 = 5324.8

Together with a Veno attacking (and debuffing) that target, this combo will outdamage a pure dex Archer by far - a class that is meant as the physical damage dealer class. And remember that your '89+ compatriots' are not only archers. Blade Masters and even more Barbs as the other physical classes deal way lower damage than Archers and therefore have less dps than a Phoenix without veno debuffs. How exactly is that fair?

LMAO. Lets hope at this point and time when they have reached that level they have learned how to play.
BTW TY for show that the archer has actually spent less than the veno does on the nix and still out DPS the nix. Good Job

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

sigh... how can a person be that stupid...

so that Nix was dealing that damage... k... u think it's low... "OK" add now ur stupid veno purge and amplify, stun so the poor target can just stand there and die while u eat him with veno spells + nix, but usually the Nix is enough for everything

seriously, every1 veno that thinks the flesh realm is not overpowered should roll another character and try to pk/pvp with it, lemme know how many times u died before understanding something in ur little brains..

or just grind, u'll see how much is funny to gain 20k per hour by grinding

Dude STFU about what you have no clue about. 1st off I have multiple chars 1 lvl 40 BM, lvl 40 Cleric, lvl 29 Archer, lvl 25 Wiz. So goes your roll other chars BS. Guess what they make more than 20k an hour grinding even after repairs so if thats all your making at ur level all I gotta say is your doing it wrong. Plain and Simple. Neither do I have problems against nixes that are the same level.

As far as Purge and Amp goes If your letting the Veno just stand there and do those you deserve to die.

Yea 481 damage from a nix on a char that is 14 levels below it is low. Once again if you find that 481 damage as Barb is high read up on the YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. Also note that she was UNBUFFED NOR WAS SHE HEALLING HERSELF AT ALL.

Maybe you need to stop whining and go play Hello Kitty online, seems to be your speed of a game.

Now as Ive said before several times Yes the PvP reduction on Bleed needs a reduction and even came up with the only true balanced way to do it.

It needs to be initially start at 50% reduction and as time keeps on ticking works it way up to full unreduced damage at its final tick. As it is supposed to be used as a pressure damage.

VenosRop - Lost City wrote: »

Cause barbs have no repair or pot costs amirite

There the same as any other type of melee class. Which can be reduced by SMART PLAY. If you just go Leeroy Jenkins into every damn mob you see ofcourse your gonna have higher costs for repairs, but yet once again thats there own fault.

TheGoliath - Heavens Tear wrote: »

b:laughb:chuckleb

level 40 ? what are u supposed to understand at those levels, try again noob

if the venos stun u, I don't see how can u "stop" them from purging and debuffing u, also note that during pk/tw u can't always see them coming, also note that u can just run/fly away from melee class while the nix kill our charms and the robe users just not survive the first bleed most of the time

hello kitty ? lol that sucked, try another joke

"The pvp reduction on bleeds needs a reduction" that doesn't make any sense, especially cuz the flesh realm DOESN'T have a reduction

aniway that's the first time a veno start talking about "Smart play" for melee classes, that's freaking funny b:bye

btw u fail

So says the Barb lvl 85 barb who thinks 481 damage is high. Apparantly my level 40 BM knows more about being a melee class than you at level barb.

The only thing that is funny is you. Obviously who fail to realize that biggest part of PKING is OH MY getting the jump on your opponent so regardless of what class your playing except barb most wont survive on that intial jump. But yes for the most part you can see them comming its just those to lazy to look at there minimap and have the close players enabled that dont see them comming.

Hello kitty is up your alley. Cause reading isnt one of your strong points.

Miatemaro - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So says the Barb lvl 85 barb who thinks 481 damage is high. Apparantly my level 40 BM knows more about being a melee class than you at level barb.

The only thing that is funny is you. Obviously who fail to realize that biggest part of PKING is OH MY getting the jump on your opponent so regardless of what class your playing except barb most wont survive on that intial jump. But yes for the most part you can see them comming its just those to lazy to look at there minimap and have the close players enabled that dont see them comming.

Hello kitty is up your alley. Cause reading isnt one of your strong points.

u still didn't get the point of the thread and u say I can't read ? <_<


Edit: the only ones defending venos and the bugged flesh realm are for 98% the same venos cuz they wanna keep their OP... the 2% is ppl that dunno a chit about this game