Think venomancers are overpowered? Please read.
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but your saying venos are sooooo overpowered. Yet the rankings show they are not the top class. If they were truly so over powered more would use them and more would be in the top 50 than their are. yet what do we see? they are only middling level in the rankings. Instead of top. That by itself argues that they are:
1. not as easy to play as you state.
2. not as powerful as you state.
3. not as good in all areas of the game as you state.
Human Nature. If someone wants to own in PVP they ain't gonna roll a class that is not going to be able to do well in PvP. Look on the PVP stats. Where are Veno's?
Human Nature. If someone wants to do well and make a lot of money they won't roll a class that doesn't do well in PVE. Where are all the Veno's? again about mid level. We are the 'average" class.
~S0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »but your saying venos are sooooo overpowered. Yet the rankings show they are not the top class. If they were truly so over powered more would use them and more would be in the top 50 than their are. yet what do we see? they are only middling level in the rankings. Instead of top. That by itself argues that they are:
1. not as easy to play as you state.
2. not as powerful as you state.
3. not as good in all areas of the game as you state.
Human Nature. If someone wants to own in PVP they ain't gonna roll a class that is not going to be able to do well in PvP. Look on the PVP stats. Where are Veno's?
Human Nature. If someone wants to do well and make a lot of money they won't roll a class that doesn't do well in PVE. Where are all the Veno's? again about mid level. We are the 'average" class.
~S
I'm afraid a simple list of PvP rankings don't show nor apply to how venos perform throughout the whole game. For one, rankings don't apply to number 1 or 3 of what you said. Again (for the nth time), not all phoenix venos go pking. Do you see DeityofRain pk? No. Yet I've seen her beat a 7x barb in mere seconds. And I already mentioned how the cost of a phoenix is discouraging. Many simply aren't that patient.
Many who begin PWI have no clue about the strengths and weakness of each class, besides the surface description offered by the home page. People pick by what they think is most fun to play, what most suits them. I'm pretty sure you didn't start PW thinking "veno is definitely the best PvE class, that's why I'm going to play it!"0 -
venos are not overpowered, and neither are the 2 legendary pets. sure phoenix hits hard and fast, but it dies even faster. and in pvp it doesnt hit nearly as hard as some of you people make it seem..
veno mage damage is low, veno melee damage is low. veno has **** defense, and if you go heavy to try to fix that then you render your pets useless as they have no survivability.
venos are not welcome or wanted for zhen parties, meaning after 60 we dont get included in the do nothing/just run around to get exp like every other class can.
we have no decent aoe spells. fox form skills dont last long enough for me to ever bother using them.
playing a veno is not easy. yea you have the "extra character" with the pet, but that just means twice as much to worry about, twice as much to do, and as had been mentioned, pets dont heed commands very well.
if you think venos are so easy and so overpowered then why not play one?0 -
you continue to sargue against yourself. I'm going whale watching. ttyl.
~S0 -
Ok figured its worth puttin in my 2 cents as everyone else seems to have :P
IMO veno's in general are NOT over powered.
They are designed to solo the game, it is the point in the class to be able to do things alone.
However, there are "bugs" with the veno, for example nix+flesh ream (its more tollerable on a sawfly). This is not the falt of the person playing the veno, most didnt know about it upon making the char. If some cash shop gear came out for other classes and for example one skill became bugged because of it its not like 90% of the people playing that class wont take advantage of it (or want to be able to take advantage of it if they cant afford the item).
Now, tho it is not the falt of the person playing the class that the skill is bugged it is the falt of the Dev's and should be fixed as soon as possible. However more cash shop sales = more money and they will sell more if the bug remains, however in the long run a server full of only veno's will be very damaging to the game.
Secondly the money earning issue. Well in this case veno's are there own demise, more they farm TT cheaper the drops become and soon it becomes non profitable. Not saying that a veno is a cheap/profitable class to play, it obviously is if done propperly, to deny that would be a lie, but eventualy it all comes down.
Conclusion: Fix the bug, will result is better game play in the long run and its still not like the nix is not a fantasticly useful pet and its still worth the money paid for it. Will stop all the QQ about them in PvP. Failing that a ban for the nix in TW till the bug is fixed tho i feel this may be unfair to those who have spent alot of money or time on getting the pet.
And as repayment to the venos who are now a glitch down fixing the problems they have where pets glitch in the water and such might be nice :PCurrently playing:
Lirgorn - Heavens Tear - Lv.7X Wiz - Elysium
Akkari - Lost City - Lv.4X Archer - Guildless (as of 19/02/09)
Rolling Harshlands upon release! Archer all the way!
Rule34!
Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he can promptly forget he ever didnt know and call people "noobs" in the fishing forums.0 -
Lirgorn - Heavens Tear wrote: »Ok figured its worth puttin in my 2 cents as everyone else seems to have :P
IMO veno's in general are NOT over powered.
They are designed to solo the game, it is the point in the class to be able to do things alone.
However, there are "bugs" with the veno, for example nix+flesh ream (its more tollerable on a sawfly). This is not the falt of the person playing the veno, most didnt know about it upon making the char. If some cash shop gear came out for other classes and for example one skill became bugged because of it its not like 90% of the people playing that class wont take advantage of it (or want to be able to take advantage of it if they cant afford the item).
Now, tho it is not the falt of the person playing the class that the skill is bugged it is the falt of the Dev's and should be fixed as soon as possible. However more cash shop sales = more money and they will sell more if the bug remains, however in the long run a server full of only veno's will be very damaging to the game.
Secondly the money earning issue. Well in this case veno's are there own demise, more they farm TT cheaper the drops become and soon it becomes non profitable. Not saying that a veno is a cheap/profitable class to play, it obviously is if done propperly, to deny that would be a lie, but eventualy it all comes down.
Conclusion: Fix the bug, will result is better game play in the long run and its still not like the nix is not a fantasticly useful pet and its still worth the money paid for it. Will stop all the QQ about them in PvP. Failing that a ban for the nix in TW till the bug is fixed tho i feel this may be unfair to those who have spent alot of money or time on getting the pet.
it's not bugged.0 -
Vinat - Sanctuary wrote: »it's not bugged.
then it needs nerfing. its strange that a level 8X nix can 1 hit me yet 8x clerics, archers, BMs, barbs and other wiz cannot
edit: i also cant think where a solo class in any other MMO is actualy remotely good PvP. They generaly rule PvE but are poor PvP, this is what helps in the balance of the game, cos of the PvE skills they can get better gear so they can be ok PvP but still should not be able to easyly drop another class. this is just my experiance and my opinion. Il bet any money the new PvP server is full of veno's.Currently playing:
Lirgorn - Heavens Tear - Lv.7X Wiz - Elysium
Akkari - Lost City - Lv.4X Archer - Guildless (as of 19/02/09)
Rolling Harshlands upon release! Archer all the way!
Rule34!
Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he can promptly forget he ever didnt know and call people "noobs" in the fishing forums.0 -
In almost every mmorpg i've played there's one class that makes money easier than other classes through grinding, but i never see such hate directed to that class in their forums.
I know that we're not supposed to discuss other versions of PW, and i don't know if this will get deleted but: other versions have been running for years now, and ppl there don't hate on venos as much as ppl in this version. I'm just wondering why is it that just this version gets a "venos are overpowered" thread on the forums every so often, and why is it that only in this version that ppl hate venos so much. And why is it that the ppl who hate venos the most are obviously ppl who either never played a veno or never leveled their veno past level 30. (Luckly Scarab (veno stun) = significant advantage over other classes??? b:surrender Whoever who thinks that obviously never actually used the skill or never leveled whatever other class enough to use their own class stuns or never fought against another class that used stuns. They obviously just looked at the skill description with the idea that "venos are OP" already in their heads and imagined fantastical things about how that skill must be pure pwnage) And those ppl who have no real experience with playing a veno (and perhaps no real experience with playing another class either) are trying to argue that personal experience isn't a valid argument??? I'm sorry but that makes absolutely no sense.
I play a veno, and a cleric and a blademaster and a barbarian. Venos do have certain advantages over other classes, but other classes also have advantages over venos. Yes venos are very good at soloing, but I don't see anything particularly godly about this class, in personal experience or in the ranking system, that warrants all this jealousy. It's a shame that some people really believe all the myths in these kinds of threads.0 -
Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »Edit: One possible solution has been proposed! One of the biggest complaints about venos is the the phoenix and herc, which can enable venos to PVP like fiends and tank bosses solo, respectively. Instead of altering them (which venos do NOT want to see happen), what if every other class were given a $200 optional item or two which could compare to a phoenix or herc? This way, the venos and their pets would not be altered, players of other classes would have something that could compare and thus would likely stop complaining, AND it would make more money for PWI. If you agree or disagree with this, PLEASE add a comment about it. Thank you!!
For example! $200 to grant access from the supperior elemental power of the wizards to enable them to summon a HERCULEAN PHOENIX!
And $200 to alter the Barbarians otherworldly DNA link to their ancestors to morph them selves into a HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!
And sell a $200 Fist for the Blademaster that grants the abilities (Bramble and pdef ignoring Flesh ream mainly) of the HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!!
HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!!!
Oh and $200 worth of herculean phoenix smileys for both Cleric and Archers..... Fking Elves, why do they both have physical and magical attack skills together.....0 -
@ haku
*whispers so mod's dnt hear talk of other PW*
Im under the impression that flying is not possible in TW for other PWs so the nix is not used in TW..not 100% on this tho. I think alot of the grudge has come from that pet.
Honestly im not all that bothered. A veno with a nix will just become a major target in any PvP so it wont really matter there. PvE the solo farming of TT keeps the mat prices low so *shrugs* wont really make all that much difference.Currently playing:
Lirgorn - Heavens Tear - Lv.7X Wiz - Elysium
Akkari - Lost City - Lv.4X Archer - Guildless (as of 19/02/09)
Rolling Harshlands upon release! Archer all the way!
Rule34!
Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he can promptly forget he ever didnt know and call people "noobs" in the fishing forums.0 -
For example! $200 to grant access from the supperior elemental power of the wizards to enable them to summon a HERCULEAN PHOENIX!Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »Edit: One possible solution has been proposed! One of the biggest complaints about venos is the the phoenix and herc, which can enable venos to PVP like fiends and tank bosses solo, respectively. Instead of altering them (which venos do NOT want to see happen), what if every other class were given a $200 optional item or two which could compare to a phoenix or herc? This way, the venos and their pets would not be altered, players of other classes would have something that could compare and thus would likely stop complaining, AND it would make more money for PWI. If you agree or disagree with this, PLEASE add a comment about it. Thank you!!
And $200 to alter the Barbarians otherworldly DNA link to their ancestors to morph them selves into a HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!
And sell a $200 Fist for the Blademaster that grants the abilities (Bramble and pdef ignoring Flesh ream mainly) of the HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!!
HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!!!
Oh and $200 worth of herculean phoenix smileys for both Cleric and Archers..... Fking Elves, why do they both have physical and magical attack skills together.....
If that becomes unfair for venos (specially the Clerics and Archers), they can always give them a $1000 worth pet named "God".0 -
Konata_lzumi - Heavens Tear wrote: »If that becomes unfair for venos (specially the Clerics and Archers), they can always give them a $1000 worth pet named "God".
*pictures a veno running around with a Zeus like mob behind them the size of Archo*
http://www.nuuanu.k12.hi.us/G-1/public_html/websites/chelsea/images/zeus.gifCurrently playing:
Lirgorn - Heavens Tear - Lv.7X Wiz - Elysium
Akkari - Lost City - Lv.4X Archer - Guildless (as of 19/02/09)
Rolling Harshlands upon release! Archer all the way!
Rule34!
Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he can promptly forget he ever didnt know and call people "noobs" in the fishing forums.0 -
For example! $200 to grant access from the supperior elemental power of the wizards to enable them to summon a HERCULEAN PHOENIX!
And $200 to alter the Barbarians otherworldly DNA link to their ancestors to morph them selves into a HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!
And sell a $200 Fist for the Blademaster that grants the abilities (Bramble and pdef ignoring Flesh ream mainly) of the HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!!
HERCULEAN PHOENIX!!!!
Oh and $200 worth of herculean phoenix smileys for both Cleric and Archers..... Fking Elves, why do they both have physical and magical attack skills together.....
If you have a better idea, I'd love to hear it. If your answer is "lol the answer is stop complaining noob", then you completely miss the point of why people keep making threads complaining about venos every single day.0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »I hope you have an alt you've actually leveled higher, because I myself have a veno up to lvl 20. I've never had to buy pots, all I did was press "f2", or ironwood scarab, my pet would bleed and take aggro, and my spell itself would take off around 1/4 to 1/3 of the mobs hp. I didnt even bother getting updated armor since I was getting hit so few times.
Your weapon and armor repairs are pathetic compared to melees.
I guess I was simply a ..hmm, "better veno" isn't a good phrase, but life seemed like cheese to me on my veno.
Yes of course this my alt! Unlike you I actually have played a veno to lvl 70. You are basing all ur knowledge from leveling to lvl 20, You Have Got To Be Kidding ME!! You can lvl to 10 easily with every character in 1 day. (And don't try to say you can't because I have one of each.) My opinion, You don't truely start to see advantages and disadvantages until at least lvl 45 when you get more skills and killing mobs get harder. You didn't even fight aggressive mobs with your Veno and having 5 running at you at one time. This now makes all your posts Ridonkulous!!!!0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »I don't know why you would be fighting a mob that took half your pet's hp. Mind explaining? And, your pet has aggro skills.
Well what do you think mobs that are way higher than your lvl and soloing bosses(which you say venos can do??) Is going to do to a pet that has less than 2k hp. Oh that's right you've not played high enough to know any of this. Come on it's common sense. How much hp do you think golems have in the 60's?0 -
_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yes of course this my alt! Unlike you I actually have played a veno to lvl 70. You are basing all ur knowledge from leveling to lvl 20, You Have Got To Be Kidding ME!! You can lvl to 10 easily with every character in 1 day. (And don't try to say you can't because I have one of each.) My opinion, You don't truely start to see advantages and disadvantages until at least lvl 45 when you get more skills and killing mobs get harder. You didn't even fight aggressive mobs with your Veno and having 5 running at you at one time. This now makes all your posts Ridonkulous!!!!
I also mentioned before I've been observing venos around my main while that has leveled. In other words, I've seen venos at my level killing mobs too. And honestly, I can't tell too much of a difference in "difficulty" than from lvl 20. Same old send in pet, cast a few spells, heal as pet runs back.0 -
Lirgorn - Heavens Tear wrote: »@ haku
Im under the impression that flying is not possible in TW for other PWs so the nix is not used in TW..not 100% on this tho. I think alot of the grudge has come from that pet.
flying is possible in TW for other versions.
Here's a funny video made in *whispers* another version */whisper* with a TW scene @ 4:05 with flying mounts, nixs, everything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjebh2iohys
enjoy ^^0 -
flying is possible in TW for other versions.
Here's a funny video made in *whispers* another version */whisper* with a TW scene @ 4:05 with flying mounts, nixs, everything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjebh2iohys
enjoy ^^
That was actualy amazing! Best link i have ever clicked on in a forum! So funny, just made my WQ so much easyer haha! And cheers for clearing up the TW thing, i was sure someone said that you couldnt fly in them still.....must have dreamt it lol.Currently playing:
Lirgorn - Heavens Tear - Lv.7X Wiz - Elysium
Akkari - Lost City - Lv.4X Archer - Guildless (as of 19/02/09)
Rolling Harshlands upon release! Archer all the way!
Rule34!
Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he can promptly forget he ever didnt know and call people "noobs" in the fishing forums.0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »I also mentioned before I've been observing venos around my main while that has leveled. In other words, I've seen venos at my level killing mobs too. And honestly, I can't tell too much of a difference in "difficulty" than from lvl 20. Same old send in pet, cast a few spells, heal as pet runs back.
Watching and doing is two completely different things. Of course you can watch a person juggle 5 swords at one time and say "boy that looks easy, because I can juggle two tennis balls and it can't be that much harder".
You can't possible know what it takes for a person playing a veno by watching a veno fight. Also you say they are venos your lvl. What lvl would that be? What class. For all I know your lvl 30 and still don't know anything about your own class, which would probably be why you've not given any advantages and disadvantages of your own class. You're going on 20 whole lvls of ur own veno and what else you've read on the forums to gather your very incorrect data.0 -
_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Watching and doing is two completely different things. Of course you can watch a person juggle 5 swords at one time and say "boy that looks easy, because I can juggle two tennis balls and it can't be that much harder".
You can't possible know what it takes for a person playing a veno by watching a veno fight. Also you say they are venos your lvl. What lvl would that be? What class. For all I know your lvl 30 and still don't know anything about your own class, which would probably be why you've not given any advantages and disadvantages of your own class. You're simply going on 20 whole lvls of ur own veno and what else you've read on the forums to gather your very incorrect data.
Please, there's only so much work involved in sending your pet (automatic if you simply start attacking) and casting spells. Unless you're saying it's hard killing mobs as a veno? That'll generate laughs. You keep bringing up examples when mobs gang you, but that happens to everyone. You're not even considering what melees have to go through.
My level doesn't matter. Your main goal should be disproving my points, not using my (unknown)level as an excuse.0 -
_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Watching and doing is two completely different things. Of course you can watch a person juggle 5 swords at one time and say "boy that looks easy, because I can juggle two tennis balls and it can't be that much harder".
.
So playing other classes the same level is like watching a person juggle five swords and if your gonna start saying veno's are hard to play im jesus.0 -
Powermind - Lost City wrote: »So playing other classes the same level is like watching a person juggle five swords and if your gonna start saying veno's are hard to play im jesus.
No apparently haven't read other posts. He said he played a veno to lvl 20 so he knows all about venos and he can tell what it's like to be a veno at high lvls by watching them fight. Well we don't know how high cause he won't say what lvl he is , or class.
What I told him is he can't know what it is like to play a high lvl veno when he's never been one.
Please read all posts before assuming you know what is going on0 -
ok, I actually just read through this whole thread and all I can say is wow. First off, all the people who don't play on a PvP server should just stop posting on this topic where veno's are overpowered in PvP. I mean seriously, stop. Lessie, if only more people read the forums, they would know to ignore your post from the first one because of the fact that you are a noob veno. You talk like it's easy getting away from a veno. Has no one talked about the movement speed of pheonix yet? Sure, during bramble hood I can just drop down and avoid the veno for 15 seconds... yeah right. By the time you casted bramble hood, the pheonix would already be in my face, and by the time I actually start falling, flesh realm will have already started and the veno can pull off one attack. That's all it takes to drop any non BM/Barb class. veno's complaining that their pet can't be purged. Cry more plz, a debuffed pheonix is still just as good as a non debuffed one in pvp. Not to mention the life of a pheonix. I'd like to see in a 1 vs 1 situation where the pheonix is actually killed first before the veno. Nearly impossible. Not to mention the fact that the PvP server near endgame is crawling with heavy and light armor venos. The key factor to an overpowered veno is flesh realm dealing too much damage in pvp. And that damage is not affected by character stats. In my mind, I think bleed should be based off of the the characters INT. So for an arcane build veno, their pet will still deal the same amount of damage. Then light armor and heavy armor builds will deal less damage with their pheonix so that it will not be as much overpowered. counter-argument, veno's themself do little damage in heavy armor build? Tough, you chose a build for more survivability. It's like saying an archer decides to allocate extra dex into str to wield heavy armor. You guys talk about 200$ for a pheonix to be a lot of money. It isn't. Just check the PvP server. Nearly 80% of the "factor" population of veno's have a pheonix. 20 mil is not hard to scratch up. Farm some mats, and farm fb 69 or 79. You can easily call the calamity axe mold or tauren chieftan cape or misty forest ring drop because it was your wine. WoW. I'm actually telling you a way right now how to make easy, fast, money. There's more that I can rant about, but I'd rather have people comment first.0
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chipsing1234 wrote: »Please, there's only so much work involved in sending your pet (automatic if you simply start attacking) and casting spells. Unless you're saying it's hard killing mobs as a veno? That'll generate laughs. You keep bringing up examples when mobs gang you, but that happens to everyone. You're not even considering what melees have to go through.
My level doesn't matter. Your main goal should be disproving my points, not using my (unknown)level as an excuse.
I brought up venos and mobs because you said venos don't use hp, which I have to say was probably the most stupid thing you've said so far. And you've said that venos can take on large mobs and their pets hold agro. Of course this was wrong because pets don't have an AOE spell. Which you wouldn't know because you never got your veno high enough.
Why don't you just give up. As I and others have stated you know nothing about venos. Everything you have posted has been false. I suggest you taking more time to learn you invisible other character.
I'm quite aware that other classes fight in different ways, but of course their made that way and their stats will be completely different.
I've noticed through out our debate there has been quite a few questions that you've made sure not to answer
But of course I know why 0 -
_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »No apparently haven't read other posts. He said he played a veno to lvl 20 so he knows all about venos and he can tell what it's like to be a veno at high lvls by watching them fight. Well we don't know how high cause he won't say what lvl he is , or class.
What I told him is he can't know what it is like to play a high lvl veno when he's never been one.
Please read all posts before assuming you know what is going on
Let's see. I will say I'm considered a "high level", though obviously not as high as the top 50. I've battled most of the mobs up to there, in Dreaming Cloud, Swamp, and even Sanctuary. I know what they're like. I know my difficulty in beating them as a melee due to their caster/phys hybrid attacks. I've seen venos beat them with ease. Don't talk like it's unimaginable playing as a high level veno vs mobs. I've played a veno for a little, so I know the layout of the options. I know the higher level mobs. I've seen the action. I'd say I could conclude having a pretty good idea of what it's like.0 -
Mind you, I don't remember ever posting venos could take on large mobs. I only countered your "it's hard to take on groups of mobs" with "it's hard for everyone to take on groups of mobs."0
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_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »I brought up venos and mobs because you said venos don't use hp, which I have to say was probably the most stupid thing you've said so far. And you've said that venos can take on large mobs and their pets hold agro. Of course this was wrong because pets don't have an AOE spell. Which you wouldn't know because you never got your veno high enough.
Why don't you just give up. As I and others have stated you know nothing about venos. Everything you have posted has been false. I suggest you taking more time to learn you invisible other character.
I'm quite aware that other classes fight in different ways, but of course their made that way and their stats will be completely different.
I've noticed through out our debate there has been quite a few questions that you've made sure not to answer But of course I know why
Note that your "others" have been nearly all venos. 0 -
Anyway, have fun posting, b/c I won't see it for a while.0
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chipsing1234 wrote: »Mind you, I don't remember ever posting venos could take on large mobs. I only countered your "it's hard to take on groups of mobs" with "it's hard for everyone to take on groups of mobs."
I don't know how you have the patience to answer and counter all these dumb venos, it amazes me. TEACH ME.0 -
Powermind - Lost City wrote: »So playing other classes the same level is like watching a person juggle five swords and if your gonna start saying veno's are hard to play im jesus.
OMG UR JESUS??? b:surprised
Venos can be hard to play just like any other class can be hard to play if you don't have a clue as to what you are doing.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
This discussion has been closed.
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