Think venomancers are overpowered? Please read.

_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear

So anyway I'm done, this thread is apparently dead since the post was "Suppose" to list all the Opinions people have about advantages and disadvantages of ALL classes, and like i predicted it was an all out I wanna cry about venos, when I know nothing about them except for what people say in forums and that's that venos have no disadvantages and all the others class are weak compared to them. And that's exactlly what all veno smasher on this thread sounded like.

Well if you believe that then I feel bad for you and your lack of knowledge.

And for those of you with veno envy because you say their so much better. Then go make one and stop crying. You'll find out soon how wrong you were. Good night!

Asgenar - Lost City

_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So anyway I'm done, this thread is apparently dead since the post was "Suppose" to list all the Opinions people have about advantages and disadvantages of ALL classes, and like i predicted it was an all out I wanna cry about venos, when I know nothing about them except for what people say in forums and that's that venos have no disadvantages and all the others class are weak compared to them. And that's exactlly what all veno smasher on this thread sounded like.

Well if you believe that then I feel bad for you and your lack of knowledge.

And for those of you with veno envy because you say their so much better. Then go make one and stop crying. You'll find out soon how wrong you were. Good night!

Why does everyone assume this game is balanced. The skills haven't even been modified since it came out more than 4 years ago. "If you have veno envy, go roll one". WTF. This game doesn't revolve around one class. Every class has pros and cons, and everyone wishes to play a character that suits their playstyle. But when one class appears to be able to wipe all others tactics and common playstyles because of one pet, then that's when the game becomes IMBALANCED, not a matter of roll the character or not.

Gasoline - Lost City

There is actually only 2 disadvantages playing a veno and thats in pve.

1. You cant zhen at Nightscream Island lvl 60-70+

(but most archers + clerics + wiz cant afford zhen anyway since 1 gold charm is like 400-500k)

2. You cant afk at bosses in TT b/c u have to amp + send chi + debuff etc

(this is the only part that actually sucks a.ss playing a veno b:cry)

Other than that venos is the class with 100% advantage

Ive played wiz+cleric+archer in this game at 90+ (and not on private-server may i add) and i have to say venos are so easy and cheap to lvl its just crazy compared to other classes. U can even grind in npc gear lol. In pvp u just send in your pet and press bleed and watch the robe die >.<.
Most venos that say stuff in these type of treads have never played other classes so they really cant compare. I suggest they go play a wiz to lvl 60+ AT LEAST than come back and say venos also can suck b:laugh.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

Why does everyone assume this game is balanced. The skills haven't even been modified since it came out more than 4 years ago. "If you have veno envy, go roll one". WTF. This game doesn't revolve around one class. Every class has pros and cons, and everyone wishes to play a character that suits their playstyle. But when one class appears to be able to wipe all others tactics and common playstyles because of one pet, then that's when the game becomes IMBALANCED, not a matter of roll the character or not.

If they fixed flesh ream, most of the venos around would not know the first thing about how to pvp I'm sure. There is a reason I will never use a phoenix in pvp at all, no matter what server I happen to be on.

Asgenar - Lost City

chipsing1234 wrote: »

Anyway, have fun posting, b/c I won't see it for a while.

Don't die out on me chip. Your are my new number one friend in this game right now.

Asgenar - Lost City

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

If they fixed flesh ream, most of the venos around would not know the first thing about how to pvp I'm sure. There is a reason I will never use a phoenix in pvp at all, no matter what server I happen to be on.

then that proves the imbalance of the game where one skill seems to make such a huge impact on the class. If flesh realm is fixed, oh i'm sorry, nerfed, then that means the class itself needs fixing.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear

_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

So anyway I'm done, this thread is apparently dead since the post was "Suppose" to list all the Opinions people have about advantages and disadvantages of ALL classes, and like i predicted it was an all out I wanna cry about venos, when I know nothing about them except for what people say in forums and that's that venos have no disadvantages and all the others class are weak compared to them. And that's exactlly what all veno smasher on this thread sounded like.

Well if you believe that then I feel bad for you and your lack of knowledge.

And for those of you with veno envy because you say their so much better. Then go make one and stop crying. You'll find out soon how wrong you were. Good night!

Right, because CLEARLY the first post is filled with NOTHING but hate for venos.

Look at what's written and say that again.

Since nobody is arguing for or against any of the things now listed on the first post, I assume it's being seen as essentially complete. Now for the next step...

Sadpuma - Heavens Tear

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

...In my mind, I think bleed should be based off of the the characters INT. So for an arcane build veno, their pet will still deal the same amount of damage. Then light armor and heavy armor builds will deal less damage with their pheonix so that it will not be as much overpowered. counter-argument, veno's themself do little damage in heavy armor build? Tough, you chose a build for more survivability. It's like saying an archer decides to allocate extra dex into str to wield heavy armor. You guys talk about 200$ for a pheonix to be a lot of money. It isn't. Just check the PvP server. Nearly 80% of the "factor" population of veno's have a pheonix. 20 mil is not hard to scratch up. Farm some mats, and farm fb 69 or 79. You can easily call the calamity axe mold or tauren chieftan cape or misty forest ring drop because it was your wine. WoW. I'm actually telling you a way right now how to make easy, fast, money. There's more that I can rant about, but I'd rather have people comment first.

I TOTALLY agree with this as an actual solution to fix the problem. This probably wouldnt be easy to implement however. It would be a great idea that the pet starts with some base stats and builds on those from the stats of its owner. With Veno's going heavy, this would nerf the life and attack of their pet.

Marvelous idea!! *applause*

Asgenar - Lost City

Sadpuma - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I TOTALLY agree with this as an actual solution to fix the problem. This probably wouldnt be easy to implement however. It would be a great idea that the pet starts with some base stats and builds on those from the stats of its owner. With Veno's going heavy, this would nerf the life and attack of their pet.

Marvelous idea!! *applause*

I hope that isn't sarcasm, I kinda thought of the idea while posting.b:pleased

Zoe - Heavens Tear

The class is fine, its just that most venos idea of pvp/pk consists entirely of:

1: Send in phoenix
2: Use flesh ream
3: Run away

We'll see what venos are actually capable of if they remove that factor. Bringing back proper pvp balance.

Asgenar - Lost City

Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The class is fine, its just that most venos idea of pvp/pk consists entirely of:

1: Send in phoenix
2: Use flesh ream
3: Run away

We'll see what venos are actually capable of if they remove that factor. Bringing back proper pvp balance.

How is the class fine if that is all the class needs to do? and the factor is still present in the game. Stop contradicting yourself.

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

Why does everyone assume this game is balanced. The skills haven't even been modified since it came out more than 4 years ago. "If you have veno envy, go roll one". WTF. This game doesn't revolve around one class. Every class has pros and cons, and everyone wishes to play a character that suits their playstyle. But when one class appears to be able to wipe all others tactics and common playstyles because of one pet, then that's when the game becomes IMBALANCED, not a matter of roll the character or not.

It's not the pet, it's the ability Flesh Ream.

Sadpuma - Heavens Tear

No, honestly, I believe that is an actual idea that could solve this problem. Like i said, it would be pretty difficult to implement, so i dont see it happening. BUT, you are the only person so far that ive seen that hasnt just said "fix the damn flesh ream" which is damn annoying already.

All venos (at least me), want the damn skill to be fixed so people shut up already. Nice to see someone actually giving an awesome idea about how to balance out veno's and stop the QQ

Asgenar - Lost City

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

It's not the pet, it's the ability Flesh Ream.

Your point? the pet is part of the class, so saying class is enough to cover the problem. You can call it red or green, but it's still a color.

Toxickiss - Heavens Tear

Aerilius - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Right, because CLEARLY the first post is filled with NOTHING but hate for venos.

Look at what's written and say that again.

Since nobody is arguing for or against any of the things now listed on the first post, I assume it's being seen as essentially complete. Now for the next step...

Look honestly the whole point of this is mute. As someone else said it's all opinions. Of course someone of one class is going to think someone of another class that can do something better is going to be at an advantage.

The green eyed monster lives in everyone. And seriously haven't we all grown out of the "it's not fair" faze or our lives?

People chose the characters they wanted to play so why not just go enjoy your character and stop worrying about others. Is anything a veno or any other class doing differently from you really harming you in any way or preventing you from playing the character that you chose for whatever your reason was? I'm sure the answer is no.

Asgenar - Lost City

Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Look honestly the whole point of this is mute. As someone else said it's all opinions. Of course someone of one class is going to think someone of another class that can do something better is going to be at an advantage.

The green eyed monster lives in everyone. And seriously haven't we all grown out of the "it's not fair" faze or our lives?

People chose the characters they wanted to play so why not just go enjoy your character and stop worrying about others. Is anything a veno or any other class doing differently from you really harming you in any way or preventing you from playing the character that you chose for whatever your reason was? I'm sure the answer is no.

sigh, another ignorant veno player who thinks the world is nice and the game is balanced.

dieseasily

Here is where I am about to confuse alot of you.

Playing a veno is like playing checkers. You can move one direction and with some hard work you can get a king(Hercu/Pheo) which can give you an upper hand in the game.

Playing most any other class is like playing Chess. It takes stratagy, you have lots of options on movement and you have to carefully consider where you are going and if you are proficient you can easily predict 3 moves ahead. This requires more effort, but in my opinion, is more rewarding.

I see most anyone complaining about veno's as chess players who do not get the simplicity of a veno and insist on trying to beat a check with a chess piece.

See, at this point I have probably lost some of you. Thats ok, I don't care I will continue with this analogy anyway.

If you are a proficient chess player, as I stated before you should be able to predict 3 moves in advance, and since venos are such a simple pattern to follow, it should be easier to think 6 moves ahead. But instead you rather say "she is overpowered because I cannot beat her at her own game." Well DUH YOU ARE A CHESS PIECE! Instead of complaining that a veno is overpowered because you cannot play her game, start making the veno play your game. Ever try to play a checker in a chess game? It doesn't work. Look at all the non venos that have said that they can beat a veno with a pheonix. They figured it out. They have become proficient at predicting the venos moves.

And again if your complaint is that a veno with a pheonix is the only thing that can beat you then the veno does not need to be nerfed. Because as soon as the veno is nerfed to the point that they are not able to beat you, it becomes your turn to be nerfed. Cause how fair is it that now no one can beat you?

Toxickiss - Heavens Tear

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

sigh, another ignorant veno player who thinks the world is nice and the game is balanced.

Please tell me where you see that I said anything about the game being balanced or that any classes being better or worse then any other. It was a completely general post. Nothing in my post spoke of anything that was character based.

You apparently are just looking for someone to go head to head with and I frankly will not give in to what you what you after. And you should be ashamed to speak about people whom you know nothing about the way you do.

Zoe - Heavens Tear

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

How is the class fine if that is all the class needs to do? and the factor is still present in the game. Stop contradicting yourself.

I'm not, I'm saying the class is just fine WITHOUT that skill. Its just that most venos have no freaking clue how to pvp without it. I want the skill nerfed, fixed, or just plain removed.

Obsessed - Heavens Tear

Theres one major flaw in this thread, it's all opinions from biased people and the clearly veno biased OP, who gets to trickle whichever facts he wants. Also Veno is the only one being scrutenized with a fine tooth comb, so it will obviously have the larger list.

I can only dispute Veno and cleric claims since those are the characters I play, but you list Wizards heal being worse then a clerics as a disadvantage, but count venos heal as an advantage?

Venomancers
Advantages:
1- HP and MP-recharging skills
2- Stun skill that does not miss, does not use chi
3- Phoenix = gigantic advantage in PVP that no other class has
4- Pets are able to pull single mobs out of groups, which all other classes are usually forced to avoid
5- Huge money-making potential due to being able to solo TT and more when others cannot, pets make this possible
6- Fast leveling

Disadvantages:
7- Squishy - this can be negated in PVE by simply using a pet, but they can be 2-shotted by an archer in PVP
8- Cost of phoenix and herc is huge
9- Mediocre at PVP - this is proven by statistics showing that most of the top PVPers of each server are not venos, phoenix or not

1. true
2. 95% at level 10, 2 seconds stun. By far the worst stun for all classes, should probably be a disadvantage
3. opinion, balance will come with higher levels and gear plus only feasibly true because of a bugged pet skill
4. true
5.Solo mode is worse then mat gathering for money. Squad mode is an advantage, but takes a lot more time then a normal squad run, plus you need Herc.
6. Opinion, any class can level fast if you try hard enough*looks at top 50 players*

7. false, depends on the build, can easily overcome squishiness(light or heavy armor)
8. Should probably be changed to: Needs legend pets to take full advantage of class
9. opinion, anyone determined enough can be good at anything


I'd like to add a disadvantage: Gets flamed on forums, daily

Asgenar - Lost City

dieseasily wrote: »

Here is where I am about to confuse alot of you.

Playing a veno is like playing checkers. You can move one direction and with some hard work you can get a king(Hercu/Pheo) which can give you an upper hand in the game.

Playing most any other class is like playing Chess. It takes stratagy, you have lots of options on movement and you have to carefully consider where you are going and if you are proficient you can easily predict 3 moves ahead. This requires more effort, but in my opinion, is more rewarding.

I see most anyone complaining about veno's as chess players who do not get the simplicity of a veno and insist on trying to beat a check with a chess piece.

See, at this point I have probably lost some of you. Thats ok, I don't care I will continue with this analogy anyway.

If you are a proficient chess player, as I stated before you should be able to predict 3 moves in advance, and since venos are such a simple pattern to follow, it should be easier to think 6 moves ahead. But instead you rather say "she is overpowered because I cannot beat her at her own game." Well DUH YOU ARE A CHESS PIECE! Instead of complaining that a veno is overpowered because you cannot play her game, start making the veno play your game. Ever try to play a checker in a chess game? It doesn't work. Look at all the non venos that have said that they can beat a veno with a pheonix. They figured it out. They have become proficient at predicting the venos moves.

And again if your complaint is that a veno with a pheonix is the only thing that can beat you then the veno does not need to be nerfed. Because as soon as the veno is nerfed to the point that they are not able to beat you, it becomes your turn to be nerfed. Cause how fair is it that now no one can beat you?

your analogy is to the point that each class has it's specific purpose. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Now, There is no such thing as perfect balance. It is an illusion. But, one can always hope for skills to be constantly remodified so that the gap among the different skill/class imbalances become smaller. Why do you think WoW succeeds. Sure it has it's advantages, but it actually releases patches where skills are constantly buffed and nerfed. THEY UNDERSTAND HOW TO PLAY THE GAME. Sadly, this game is under a contract where the developers of perfect world international can not change any codes of the game. They just sit there twiddling their thumbs waiting for the next patch to come from china. The rate that bugs are fixed depends on how fast they rush the guys over in china. That is why you see the GMs here to know just about nothing about the game compared to the players. If Gms take the time to gather insult from this, how about go fixing the customer service first?

Now, I'm deviating from the point, but the fact is that this game needs to be constantly patched, with skills changed every now and then. That is the way I see it for this game to survive.

Aerilius - Heavens Tear

Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Look honestly the whole point of this is mute. As someone else said it's all opinions. Of course someone of one class is going to think someone of another class that can do something better is going to be at an advantage.

The green eyed monster lives in everyone. And seriously haven't we all grown out of the "it's not fair" faze or our lives?

People chose the characters they wanted to play so why not just go enjoy your character and stop worrying about others. Is anything a veno or any other class doing differently from you really harming you in any way or preventing you from playing the character that you chose for whatever your reason was? I'm sure the answer is no.

So your belief is that nobody should really care about how the game works, and that we should just take it as it is, even though things can easily be changed. Sure, makes perfect sense.

dieseasily wrote: »

Here is where I am about to confuse alot of you.

Playing a veno is like playing checkers. You can move one direction and with some hard work you can get a king(Hercu/Pheo) which can give you an upper hand in the game.

Playing most any other class is like playing Chess. It takes stratagy, you have lots of options on movement and you have to carefully consider where you are going and if you are proficient you can easily predict 3 moves ahead. This requires more effort, but in my opinion, is more rewarding.

I see most anyone complaining about veno's as chess players who do not get the simplicity of a veno and insist on trying to beat a check with a chess piece.

See, at this point I have probably lost some of you. Thats ok, I don't care I will continue with this analogy anyway.

If you are a proficient chess player, as I stated before you should be able to predict 3 moves in advance, and since venos are such a simple pattern to follow, it should be easier to think 6 moves ahead. But instead you rather say "she is overpowered because I cannot beat her at her own game." Well DUH YOU ARE A CHESS PIECE! Instead of complaining that a veno is overpowered because you cannot play her game, start making the veno play your game. Ever try to play a checker in a chess game? It doesn't work. Look at all the non venos that have said that they can beat a veno with a pheonix. They figured it out. They have become proficient at predicting the venos moves.

And again if your complaint is that a veno with a pheonix is the only thing that can beat you then the veno does not need to be nerfed. Because as soon as the veno is nerfed to the point that they are not able to beat you, it becomes your turn to be nerfed. Cause how fair is it that now no one can beat you?

I'm afraid it's not that simple. You can't just drag lines between two unlike things and call them practically identical. Also: "See, at this point I have probably lost some of you." Not to be insulting, but we're not stupid. Please don't assume we are.

I'm going to post a new thread soon with the idea that seems to be the most popular, with a simple yes or no poll attached.

Asgenar - Lost City

Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Please tell me where you see that I said anything about the game being balanced or that any classes being better or worse then any other. It was a completely general post. Nothing in my post spoke of anything that was character based.

You apparently are just looking for someone to go head to head with and I frankly will not give in to what you what you after. And you should be ashamed to speak about people whom you know nothing about the way you do.

"People chose the characters they wanted to play so why not just go enjoy your character and stop worrying about others. Is anything a veno or any other class doing differently from you really harming you in any way or preventing you from playing the character that you chose for whatever your reason was? I'm sure the answer is no."

Yes, there is a reason for the complain posts. The fact that venomancers are overpowered downplay the enjoyment for others who play different classes. They feel as if there is no purpose in playing their class when all their hard work is ruined by one pet.

There you go.

Lcewolf - Lost City

I have a lvl 30 veno with a golem and a sawfly and I disagree. Lots of times the monsters will double. When my pet is atking one the other gets me, this causes lots of pots wasted, many times killed. It is very easy to die like that. I don't know about higher lvls but it doesn't seem overpowered... Only like 1-5% venos have phoenix or herc so don't count that in...

Toxickiss - Heavens Tear

"Yes, there is a reason for the complain posts. The fact that venomancers are overpowered downplay the enjoyment for others who play different classes. They feel as if there is no purpose in playing their class when all their hard work is ruined by one pet.

There you go."

Please explain how does one pet ruin entire game for you? And when you say overpowered like most people use this term. Are you using it in the true meaning of the word, that you feel venos are the strongest in the game? I just trying to understand how you see it.

Asgenar - Lost City

Lcewolf - Lost City wrote: »

I have a lvl 30 veno with a golem and a sawfly and I disagree. Lots of times the monsters will double. When my pet is atking one the other gets me, this causes lots of pots wasted, many times killed. It is very easy to die like that. I don't know about higher lvls but it doesn't seem overpowered... Only like 1-5% venos have phoenix or herc so don't count that in...

that's cuz you're lvl 30. over 80% of the "high" lvl venos have a pheonix. High lvl meaning 70+

Asgenar - Lost City

Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »

"Yes, there is a reason for the complain posts. The fact that venomancers are overpowered downplay the enjoyment for others who play different classes. They feel as if there is no purpose in playing their class when all their hard work is ruined by one pet.

There you go."

Please explain how does one pet ruin entire game for you? And when you say overpowered like most people use this term. Are you using it in the true meaning of the word, that you feel venos are the strongest in the game? I just trying to understand how you see it.

Before I argue back, I'd like to apolizie for the harshness of my post. Just like you are tired of every non-veno complaining about venos, I'm just as tired of every veno defending their class while blindly throwing their overpoweredness aside. There are 2 different type of people that play this game. Those that wish to have fun, and those that wish to succeed and accomplish. Everyone has self pride in their character. And that is when everything goes downhill. People claim that the game is balanced and that the opposing side just doesn't know how to play. But when one pet obviously can own in PvP and even kill people who spend more than the supposed 200$ to get a pheonix, then the players get displeased.

Toxickiss - Heavens Tear

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

Before I argue back, I'd like to apolizie for the harshness of my post. Just like you are tired of every non-veno complaining about venos, I'm just as tired of every veno defending their class while blindly throwing their overpoweredness aside. There are 2 different type of people that play this game. Those that wish to have fun, and those that wish to succeed and accomplish. Everyone has self pride in their character. And that is when everything goes downhill. People claim that the game is balanced and that the opposing side just doesn't know how to play. But when one pet obviously can own in PvP and even kill people who spend more than the supposed 200$ to get a pheonix, then the players get displeased.

First I don't know why you are argueing back when I wasn't argueing with you. I was asking you to explain to me your reasoning. Maybe if you would actually explain your reasoning instead of going on tangents then others would be able to relate to you.

Second it doesn't matter if it's in game or in real life it is human nature to defend yourself. Just as you are doing with your posts.

Third since when is having fun, while u suceed and accomplish things not an option.

Fourth I have never once in this thread of any other said anything about this game being or not being balanced.

Fifth in all that you still never explained what about venos you feel makes them overpowered. Question, did you see the posts that show the top 10-50 characters that someone posted. If you wanna throw words around like overpowered than explain why the lists aren't filled with venos?

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear

Asgenar - Lost City wrote: »

Your point? the pet is part of the class, so saying class is enough to cover the problem. You can call it red or green, but it's still a color.

You claimed it was because of the pet when it's because of the ability that can be given to the pet. The two are not the same. Generalizing when the problem is specific to a single ability is what people do when they start screaming bloody murder about venos and their phoenixes.

I've played many different classes across many different games, and there have always been balance issues between classes, but something that always stands out is when the problem isn't the class or the pet, but a single ability that is causing the problem. Once the ability gets fixed or toned down, the problem tends to go away, and people forget it was a problem.

Lcewolf - Lost City

OMGLAZERZ - Heavens Tear wrote: »

You claimed it was because of the pet when it's because of the ability that can be given to the pet. The two are not the same. Generalizing when the problem is specific to a single ability is what people do when they start screaming bloody murder about venos and their phoenixes.

I've played many different classes across many different games, and there have always been balance issues between classes, but something that always stands out is when the problem isn't the class or the pet, but a single ability that is causing the problem. Once the ability gets fixed or toned down, the problem tends to go away, and people forget it was a problem.

Good point, dieseasily said the thing about chess pieces. Other classes have their overpowering moment... You don't see top 100 full of venos.

Most are archers, wizards, venos (there are some but not full). Basically there is a great variety. In PVP there are barely any venos...