Think venomancers are overpowered? Please read.
Comments
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Pets do unreduced damage to bosses. As you might have noticed when you're fighting a mob with the fancy gold frame, your damage is greatly reduced due to "boss armor." Pets don't suffer this reduction.Solandri - Heavens Tear wrote: »Can someone expand on this? I haven't noticed any damage reduction on bosses, pet or player, other than what's to be expected from the higher p.def/m.def.
Pets DO get reduced on players. It's the same % reduction as normal player attacks. That is fair. There's just this ONE skill that annoys everyone. Flesh ream is UNREDUCED. Meaning.....the phoenix will flesh ream you and you will tick like 1K-1.5K dmg/sec depending on your defenses (you might take less since you're a barb). This is frustrating considering I have oh....3K HP.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »Simple. With your pet heal, keep it healed till the mob is dead. Then unsummon/resummon it. I don't see a problem.
You will see the problem when the pet gets 1 shotted due to a defense debuff. It happened to my herc at level 81 when I tried to tank Eyes of the Krimson Beyond.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Zoe - Heavens Tear wrote: »You will see the problem when the pet gets 1 shotted due to a defense debuff. It happened to my herc at level 81 when I tried to tank Eyes of the Krimson Beyond.
Okay, you're using Eyes as an example, lol. Eyes of the Krimson Beyond. Jewel v2. The boss even 8x barbs don't like tanking.
I was talking about normal mobs. Debuffs such as poison or lower attack are nullified by veno heal. Only bosses have def down, and even talking about soloing them already implies an imbalance.0 -
Really? *looks* hmm I see SOLO MODE as an option..... Doesn't look to me as if TT was meant to be only squad ran. Try again with more flawed logic.chipsing1234 wrote: »To be able to "farm" TT?? TT is meant for squads, mind you. TT equips are meant to be good, and not easy to obtain.
~S0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »catrinka, why do you keep posting the PvP stats as if that solves the whole argument? There are many sides to it, such as money making, ease of leveling, being able to solo instances. I get the feeling most phoenix venos use it to grind, rather than PvP. Again, those lists show the type of people that play. I wonder what it'd be like if all the phoenix venos started heavily PvPing?
The whole point of this thread is whether or not Venos are overpowered. Not money making or ease of leveling.
I didn't post the PVP stats, I was quoting the person who did. I did however post the PVE because these stats are facts.
If you read my post you would see why I posted them, but since you didn't I will repeat myself.
"There would be way more venos in these list if they were as powerful and easy/quick to lvl."
"Advantages and disadvantages are purely people opinions."
How about saying why it is you think venos are overpowered and make more money and are faster to lvl in clear straight forward facts, and not use opinions.0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »Simple. With your pet heal, keep it healed till the mob is dead. Then unsummon/resummon it. I don't see a problem.
Can I ask you have you ever played a Veno?
You are aware there is a cool down for the heal spell right? And that the heal spell does not give your pet it's full life back. And pets don't have huge amounts of Hp for example my lvl 60 golem only has 1954 hp. Not a whole lot is it. And if I go up against anything that hits hard I have a good chance that my heal will not keep up. Not to mention that my pets damage is only 890 so if I want to actually kill the monster and not be there forever I have to fight too. Which doesn't allow me to constatly heal the pet. And with my HP only being 2649 and wearing light armor, when my pet dies so do I.0 -
Veno's can NOT solo FB19 at 2x. They can take out the mobs but they can NOT kill the boss. > Fail Argument.chipsing1234 wrote: »But what other class has the ability to solo fb19 at lvl 2x?
Again, and again I say it. We are a class designed to solo. This means we will be able to do things you can't. Seriously, GET OVER IT! > Fail Argument.chipsing1234 wrote: »Ability to solo Chintien at 6x? No other class by a long shot.
"
In the heat of battle when your fighting and watching all around you for adds or wandering mobs, you don't have time usually to go clicking the pets skill bar. ONLY ONE pet skill can be set to auto use out of 4. So no they don't use them all automatically, again.. > Fail Argument.chipsing1234 wrote: »Pets use their own skills automatically, don't say they don't. Even if you do click on them: oh noes, you have a pet and you have to click to use their skills. Isn't having a pet supposed to add another set of options?
Wrong, I've WATCHED blademasters AOE 7 mobs at a time. WATCHED them kill them 7 mobs faster than my pet could kill 7 identical mobs. (and my pet was a Nix), and he did it all at the same time. Once again, >Fail Argument.chipsing1234 wrote: »"Pet can only attack one mob at once": So can the rest of us.
First, Not everyone can afford the christmas blessing, second if you can't afford that, you buy arcane books for 2 gold a week, if your too poor to buy that you feed your pet. Herc doesn't feed on pure water, neither does the Nix. Hercs food >Meat (about 4-7kea) Nix's food >Hay types (about 4-10kea). Once more you provide > Fail Argument.chipsing1234 wrote: »"Pet must be fed every 5 minutes." : Christmas blessing, anyone? Funny how it specifically had that "secret" effect of preventing pet hunger. I smell a plot to get people to buy more Legendary pets. Besides, pure water costs 10 coin.
Dismissing valid arguments because they don't fit in your narrow minded pogrom to nerf venos. Do YOU use ALL of the skills available to you? No? Yeah that is what I thought. STFU already.chipsing1234 wrote: »As for your last comment, that's your own personal preference. The fact is that they're there, and any veno is free to use them.
~S0 -
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To the poster of this thread. How is a wizard being able to heal itself a disadvantage but a veno being able to is an advantage when the wizards heals are superior?? If you're going to compare heals to cleric's heals then venos should be disadvantages also.0
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There won't be x-mas blessings on the new server XD[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Clerics are overpowered they can heal more than one person at the same time! NERF CLERICS! (just kidding).Coshten - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't kno about him but I do... I have to watch my magic, heal myself cuz I get aggro when I heal the person dying, and I have to heal an entire party that won't stick together and everyone pulls mobs from every direction... And then when someone dies they b***h at me and say I wasn't paying attention... Some classes do have to watch just as many things as veno's do... b:surrender
Saitada0 -
Thats funny. I was in FB69 last night and my pet did 600-800 damage to the bosses where as the regular FB mobs he was doing 1200+. Sounds like a reduction to me. Damage based off the mobs Phys Resists... not straight unmitigated damage.Mishie - Sanctuary wrote: »
Pets do unreduced damage to bosses.
~S0 -
Actually, that is not totally true, i've watched my nix MISS on a Flesh Ream cast. It's rare enough to be close to what you said. But technically, not accurate.Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »Yes, I demand that crits not suffer PvP reduction b:laughb:laughb:laughb:laugh
C'mon, nix can land that flesh ream on me 100%, what's the harm in 20% chance to do 16K damage
~S0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »Okay, you're using Eyes as an example, lol. Eyes of the Krimson Beyond. Jewel v2. The boss even 8x barbs don't like tanking.
I was talking about normal mobs. Debuffs such as poison or lower attack are nullified by veno heal. Only bosses have def down, and even talking about soloing them already implies an imbalance.
My god man, or boy (whichever is the case) Don't you have anything else to do all day and night, other than sit on the forums whining and crying about veno's?
I was at work last night and you were here doing this, came home this morning and you were back at it some more, I just woke up, and your still here QQ'ing. I must ask you what is your stake in all this, to give so much dedication to being PWI biggest cry baby about veno's?
I'm starting to wonder if you even play the game, or are you just a troll as your starting to seem? Your facts on many of your posts have been skewed, biased, and sometimes outright wrong. Your embarrassing yourself. Go away.... go away now.
Shoo boy, shoo.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You will never do anything in this world without courage.
It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.
~Aristotle0 -
So Flesh Ream is like a physical attack in that it's affected by evasion?
Hmm....Rusty the Evade Barb might be heading in the right direction LOL[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »My god man, or boy (whichever is the case) Don't you have anything else to do all day and night, other than sit on the forums whining and crying about veno's?
Your facts on many of your posts have been skewed, biased, and sometimes outright wrong. Your embarrassing yourself.
I fully agree! How about sharing your lvl and character. Show us ur avatar
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Stun skill that does not miss, does not use chi
Your wrong, even at level 10 (which requiere to be level 85), Lucky Scarab doesn't have 100% success chance to stun. The attack never miss, but it doesn't always stun. When it stuns it last 2 seconds and it takes 2.3 second to channel and cast the spell. Not to mention it also has a 12 seconds cooldown. Venomancer have the worst stun skill in the game. I don't see that has an advantage.Here's some tinder for the fire: ONLY VENOMANCERS can solo TT at 70, and tank, both with relative ease. That's not fair. Most other classes would be utterly demolished trying to attempt such a thing. Archers and wizards might as well consider it impossible. The advantage given to venomancers makes them overpowered. PROVE ME WRONG.
For boss soloing ability, I'd like to remember you venomancer can only solo boss that are 15-20 level under their level. For TT we can make money out of it, but ain't magic weapon like "wheel of fate" cost 2 times if it's not 3 times more then weapon of the same level for other class ?~~~ My Guides ~~~
Mystical Tome (h ttp://pwi-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=250862)
AOE Grinding with Venomancer (h ttp://pwi-wiki.perfectworld.com/index.php/Guide_to_AOE_Grinding_With_Venomancer)0 -
Don't use Wheel of Fate as an example -_- That weapon like all channeling equips is grossly overpriced. You're also not the only ones using them.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »My god man, or boy (whichever is the case) Don't you have anything else to do all day and night, other than sit on the forums whining and crying about veno's?
I was at work last night and you were here doing this, came home this morning and you were back at it some more, I just woke up, and your still here QQ'ing. I must ask you what is your stake in all this, to give so much dedication to being PWI biggest cry baby about veno's?
I'm starting to wonder if you even play the game, or are you just a troll as your starting to seem? Your facts on many of your posts have been skewed, biased, and sometimes outright wrong. Your embarrassing yourself. Go away.... go away now.
Shoo boy, shoo.
Becoming quite the flamer, aren't we?
There's a difference between whining and pointing out imbalances. Sure, to you and other venos it can seem that way, since you don't want to see your class nerfed.
As for the heal pet cooldown, a cooldown of less than two seconds isn't very long (provided you keep upgrading it). I doubt something besides more than one elite mob can take it down that quickly.
As for the bm AOEing seven mobs, did you see if he had a charm? That's also known as "AOE grinding," requiring both hp and mp charms, or a cleric.0 -
except for one thing. Get on a ground Mount and head away from the Veno. Nix has a range limit that is still within visable range so you can still see the Veno when the Nix spawns back at the Veno's side. The Veno can NOT also be on a ground mount to chase you down because we can have only ONE pet out at a time (and ground mounts count as pets). ANY ground mount can easily outrun ANY aerogear, so don't even try to bring that argument into the equation, just ask Arayo-Chan (sp?) how she escaped my nix when I stepped out of SP and called it up and she tried to High side PK me (didn't work as I was LA at the time).chipsing1234 wrote: »The main complaint is that the technique allows the user to become nearly invincible (not to be confused with the invincible technique venos can get at 79). A veno who uses this with phoenix will chase down any running opponent.
She dropped to ground and out ran me and my Nix on her mount. Nuff said here.
~S0 -
_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »The whole point of this thread is whether or not Venos are overpowered. Not money making or ease of leveling.
I didn't post the PVP stats, I was quoting the person who did. I did however post the PVE because these stats are facts.
If you read my post you would see why I posted them, but since you didn't I will repeat myself.
"There would be way more venos in these list if they were as powerful and easy/quick to lvl."
"Advantages and disadvantages are purely people opinions."
How about saying why it is you think venos are overpowered and make more money and are faster to lvl in clear straight forward facts, and not use opinions.
Very well, here we go again.
Let's have all this in a normal, PvE (1v1) scenario.
Leveling faster:
1. Venos have pets, pets tank, venos cast spells behind the pet. There's two attackers in that equation, and the mob goes down quickly.
2. Venos, in this scenario, don't lose hp. They don't have to worry about their own health, and heal pet immediately recovers a nice chunk of a pet's hp. No worries about meditating for health, and overall less mp use than a mage/cleric.
Make more money:
1. Killing mobs faster = more drops.
2. Farming TT by yourself at the cost of 1, or for higher level TTs, more than 1 ultimate substance.
3. Little repairs, little pots (compared to other classes).
Is that clear enough?0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »except for one thing. Get on a ground Mount and head away from the Veno. Nix has a range limit that is still within visable range so you can still see the Veno when the Nix spawns back at the Veno's side. The Veno can NOT also be on a ground mount to chase you down because we can have only ONE pet out at a time (and ground mounts count as pets). ANY ground mount can easily outrun ANY aerogear, so don't even try to bring that argument into the equation, just ask Arayo-Chan (sp?) how she escaped my nix when I stepped out of SP and called it up and she tried to High side PK me (didn't work as I was LA at the time).
She dropped to ground and out ran me and my Nix on her mount. Nuff said here.
~S
Okay I'll stop arguing this point...bringing too many x-factors into the equation, like assuming the person even has a land mount..
Basically, she succeeded in running away from you. I guess that proves your point that venos aren't one hit wonders. Now as for overpowered...0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »Becoming quite the flamer, aren't we?
As for the heal pet cooldown, a cooldown of less than two seconds isn't very long (provided you keep upgrading it). I doubt something besides more than one elite mob can take it down that quickly.
You doubt it?? Well that sounds likk you're not sure. Hmm if keeping ur pet alive is so easy there wouldn't need to be a revive spell. Once again you use an opinion and you are wrong. Now how about using some facts.0 -
_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »You doubt it?? Well that sounds likk you're not sure. Hmm if keeping ur pet alive is so easy there wouldn't need to be a revive spell. Once again you use an opinion and you are wrong. Now how about using some facts.
It's called sarcasm. Revive pet is in case your pet dies, like in the case a group of mobs all cast on it or you're careless and forget to pay attention to your pet's health. Otherwise, tell me it's difficult to keep your pet alive.0 -
First. If i'm stunned, chances are my pet is as well. More often than not that is the case. Second low level BM's with that 3 second stun shouldn't even be PVPing. Third if you can escape a more powerful opponent by stunning w/o dieing... you say whoopee? That is a really intelligent argument for all BM to just not bother trying to stun and go toe to toe with everyone else. If we are stunned, that measly 1.1 second stun isn't gonna get off. Your arguments are full of fail.chipsing1234 wrote: »Bm is the only class with AOE stun. Mind you it's only 3 seconds to start off. So maybe they can escape. Whopee.
If we go past that...
Phoenix has stun. So what if a barb or archer stuns you yourself? Your phoenix is free to stun them, bleed them, and otherwise **** their hp. Once you're out of stun, are you not free to chase them as well? Your summer sprint gives you 25% boost. I'm not sure what the cooldown for phoenix stun is, but you have your own stun that goes past 20 meters in range. I don't think more than a few stuns are needed for the phoenix to bleed and finish them off.
And it's not like barbs have infinite hp.
Let me say this and then you can attempt to continue refuting all our arguments with the same old tired arguments you have used, over and over, that have been refuted over and over.
You do NOT know the class. You do NOT understand the class. You do NOT have any clue what your talking about. yet you insist on flapping your yap. My supposition. Someone on your server has a nix and has it out for you, so keeps killing you. Over and Over again, and your **** sore about it.
Veno's are a Soloing class. We do that very well. We are the class thats played when people don't want to be forced into parties with idiots like you. YOU are one reason why I LOVE my Veno, and her Nix and Herc. It means I don't have to be forced to endure your insipid stupidity when I play. I can go solo my mobs and not have to endure idiocy.
Just go away. Your idiocy is running rampant for everyone to see and your too stupid to know it.
~S0 -
just being a pain in the butt but veno's stun is not "never" miss, it's 95% chance
hahaha I know I know it's almost to never, but still not never maybe change it to a very low chance of fail? 0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »Very well, here we go again.
Let's have all this in a normal, PvE (1v1) scenario.
Leveling faster:
1. Venos have pets, pets tank, venos cast spells behind the pet. There's two attackers in that equation, and the mob goes down quickly.
2. Venos, in this scenario, don't lose hp. They don't have to worry about their own health, and heal pet immediately recovers a nice chunk of a pet's hp. No worries about meditating for health, and overall less mp use than a mage/cleric.
Make more money:
1. Killing mobs faster = more drops.
2. Farming TT by yourself at the cost of 1, or for higher level TTs, more than 1 ultimate substance.
3. Little repairs, little pots (compared to other classes).
Is that clear enough?
Wow all wrong, you really no nothing about Venos, let me clear it up for you
1. Yes a veno and her pet are two attackers but you're not taking in any consideration how much combined damaged they are actually doing. Not very much!! And that does matter.
2. Venos don't lose hp. Are you crazy? This point back to number 1. If we are fighting with are pet, we will take agro. Meaning the mob will come after us. Not to mention if there's more then one the majority come to us and 1 stays at the pet. If venos don't take hits then how do you explain us needing to buy hp charms??
Your money making is assumptions. Have you not read the threads that venos have explained that soloing TT isn't even worth it. They don't make enough to make it worth it.
We don't use pots?? Once again you guess wrong. We use many pots. And I have to repair my weapon and armor all the time just like others.
So now how about some facts? Do you know what facts are?? Because those were not facts. Those were assumptions and opinions of someone that has very little (if any knowledge) of venos.0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »First. If i'm stunned, chances are my pet is as well. More often than not that is the case. Second low level BM's with that 3 second stun shouldn't even be PVPing. Third if you can escape a more powerful opponent by stunning w/o dieing... you say whoopee? That is a really intelligent argument for all BM to just not bother trying to stun and go toe to toe with everyone else. If we are stunned, that measly 1.1 second stun isn't gonna get off. Your arguments are full of fail.
Let me say this and then you can attempt to continue refuting all our arguments with the same old tired arguments you have used, over and over, that have been refuted over and over.
You do NOT know the class. You do NOT understand the class. You do NOT have any clue what your talking about. yet you insist on flapping your yap. My supposition. Someone on your server has a nix and has it out for you, so keeps killing you. Over and Over again, and your **** sore about it.
Veno's are a Soloing class. We do that very well. We are the class thats played when people don't want to be forced into parties with idiots like you. YOU are one reason why I LOVE my Veno, and her Nix and Herc. It means I don't have to be forced to endure your insipid stupidity when I play. I can go solo my mobs and not have to endure idiocy.
Just go away. Your idiocy is running rampant for everyone to see and your too stupid to know it.
~S
Flame, flame, flame. Didn't the mod say to stop that?
I'm afraid the only counters you venos have had to my arguments are specific instances in which they don't apply. Or general, opinionated statements such as "[low level bms] shouldn't be PvPing". And you tell me to stick with the facts.
You're free to flame me however you want. By the way, your angry outburst has flawed your argument: my view on venos doesn't suggest anything about how I play.0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »It's called sarcasm. Revive pet is in case your pet dies, like in the case a group of mobs all cast on it or you're careless and forget to pay attention to your pet's health. Otherwise, tell me it's difficult to keep your pet alive.
Careless has nothing to do with a mob will not stay with the pet with a fighting veno the mob will attack the veno and the veno takes all the hits. And revive is there when someting does too much damage to your pet that a veno can't keep up with. It has nothing to do with carelessness. If a monster is taking away half your pets hp and you only heal 1/3 of it the monster will win. Those are facts.0 -
_CaTrinka_ - Heavens Tear wrote: »Wow all wrong, you really no nothing about Venos, let me clear it up for you
1. Yes a veno and her pet are two attackers but you're not taking in any consideration how much combined damaged they are actually doing. Not very much!! And that does matter.
2. Venos don't lose hp. Are you crazy? This point back to number 1. If we are fighting with are pet, we will take agro. Meaning the mob will come after us. Not to mention if there's more then one the majority come to us and 1 stays at the pet. If venos don't take hits then how do you explain us needing to buy hp charms??
Your money making is assumptions. Have you not read the threads that venos have explained that soloing TT isn't even worth it. They don't make enough to make it worth it.
We don't use pots?? Once again you guess wrong. We use many pots. And I have to repair my weapon and armor all the time just like others.
So now how about some facts? Do you know what facts are?? Because those were not facts. Those were assumptions and opinions of someone that has very little (if any knowledge) of venos.
I hope you have an alt you've actually leveled higher, because I myself have a veno up to lvl 20. I've never had to buy pots, all I did was press "f2", or ironwood scarab, my pet would bleed and take aggro, and my spell itself would take off around 1/4 to 1/3 of the mobs hp. I didnt even bother getting updated armor since I was getting hit so few times.
Your weapon and armor repairs are pathetic compared to melees.
I guess I was simply a ..hmm, "better veno" isn't a good phrase, but life seemed like cheese to me on my veno.0
This discussion has been closed.
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