Think venomancers are overpowered? Please read.
Comments
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chipsing1234 wrote: »Technically, pets skill don't need to be upgraded at all. Their physical attack goes up with lvling, and the veno deals the main damage anyway.
-You do have to lvl skills if you're going to use them as tanks. (which is the first advantage on the list) They would never survive if you don't and they cost 200k a lvl.
-You can't just tank anything, you have to be much higher to tank a boss and you have to have a Herc which costs 23 mil or $150. It's not like we can just go take an fb39 boss at 39.
-Also a pet just doesn't go in and do everything for you. You have to click on 3/4 pet spells to be able to use them and heal them while they are getting hit, and on top of that use your own skills. Also we have to feed them every 5 minutes to keep their loyalty up so they get experience. And lets not forget that fact that we have to make sure that the pet lvls or it's completely useless.
-We cannot take on mobs easily. Our pets only hit 1 monster at a time. No what happens to the other monsters?? They come running at the veno!! So we just can't stand back and let the pet fight mobs like you seem to think we can.
-Now a pheonix is an advantage in pvp but the diadvantage is that it costs 23 mil or $150!! It's not like you can just go out and tame it.
Ok that's my say on the pets.
-As for our Hp & MP spells, I don't even use them. It's way faster to pot or take a treat. The spell has a 2 second channel time and a 1 sec cast time. If you're using it in an emergency situation (ur about to die if ur hit again) You don't have enough time to get it off, and it can be interrupted. Cool down is 300 seconds also.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
An advantage for wizards is that they can heal them selves and others (playing a second cleric if needed)[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »-You do have to lvl skills if you're going to use them as tanks. (which is the first advantage on the list) They would never survive if you don't and they cost 200k a lvl.
-You can't just tank anything, you have to be much higher to tank a boss and you have to have a Herc which costs 23 mil or $150. It's not like we can just go take an fb39 boss at 39.
-Also a pet just doesn't go in and do everything for you. You have to click on 3/4 pet spells to be able to use them and heal them while they are getting hit, and on top of that use your own skills. Also we have to feed them every 5 minutes to keep their loyalty up so they get experience. And lets not forget that fact that we have to make sure that the pet lvls or it's completely useless.
-We cannot take on mobs easily. Our pets only hit 1 monster at a time. No what happens to the other monsters?? They come running at the veno!! So we just can't stand back and let the pet fight mobs like you seem to think we can.
-Now a pheonix is an advantage in pvp but the diadvantage is that it costs 23 mil or $150!! It's not like you can just go out and tame it.
Ok that's my say on the pets.
-As for our Hp & MP spells, I don't even use them. It's way faster to pot or take a treat. The spell has a 2 second channel time and a 1 sec cast time. If you're using it in an emergency situation (ur about to die if ur hit again) You don't have enough time to get it off, and it can be interrupted. Cool down is 300 seconds also.
Let's start countering your points.
"you cant tank everything": I never said you could. But what other class has the ability to solo fb19 at lvl 2x? Ability to solo Chintien at 6x? No other class by a long shot.
"You have to click on pet skills and use your own skills": Pets use their own skills automatically, don't say they don't. Even if you do click on them: oh noes, you have a pet and you have to click to use their skills. Isn't having a pet supposed to add another set of options?
"Pet can only attack one mob at once": So can the rest of us.
"Pet must be fed every 5 minutes." : Christmas blessing, anyone? Funny how it specifically had that "secret" effect of preventing pet hunger. I smell a plot to get people to buy more Legendary pets. Besides, pure water costs 10 coin.
As for your last comment, that's your own personal preference. The fact is that they're there, and any veno is free to use them.0 -
Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »An advantage for wizards is that they can heal them selves and others (playing a second cleric if needed)
I don't think you realize the incredibly long casting time for a wiz heal. It's nearly impossible to use in battle.0 -
Foxx_trott - Heavens Tear wrote: »Just a few hard facts to throw some water on this, I must admit stupid debate we keep seeming to have here on these forums every few days. (The threads such as this, are more numerous than any other on these forums)
The rankings off of the Lost City PVP server.
Top 10 killers
1 is an archer
2 veno
3 wizzy
4 veno
5 archer
6 archer
7 archer
8 wizzy
9 cleric
10 wizzy
See any pattern yet? If your blind, and/or can't count, here is even more facts from our beloved PVP server rankings. Cuz I did some counting.
The Lost City top 50 killers (A breakdown per class of who is in the top 50)
veno's have 9 in the top 50
archers have 20!!!!
wizzy's have 6
clerics have 5, and I thought this number would be higher to be honest.
barbs have just 5
and BM also have just 5 in the top 50 list.
Yet day after day all I ever see on here are threads about how veno's just are so over powered, and have all the advantages in everything. PVP is the ultimate test. So unless people are just jealous some venos tank some zones with expensive pets. There shouldn't be any more QQ about this. And one of the above posters were right in saying if they want to do what a veno can, roll one, and then pay about $180 for a herc so you too can farm a tough zone.
Who cares about PvP? PvP isn't for anything but pride anyway. Find a ranking of monetary wealth/net worth without using rl money, and I bet you venos will dominate the charts. Money = better equips/armor.0 -
You have to click on pet skills and use your own skills": Pets use their own skills automatically, don't say they don't
As I stated only 1 pet skill casts by itself, the other 3 have to be clicked. Don't speak without knowing the facts![SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »You have to click on pet skills and use your own skills": Pets use their own skills automatically, don't say they don't
As I stated only 1 pet skill casts by itself, the other 3 have to be clicked. Don't speak without knowing the facts!
Again, clicking on the skill takes so much concentration after you have the mob selected. Dont tell me you're complaining about that.0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »I don't think you realize the incredibly long casting time for a wiz heal. It's nearly impossible to use in battle.
Actually I am quite aware that it has a 4.5 channel and a 1.5 cast. That's why I said a wizard can be used as a second cleric. As I've seen them do many times.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Veno Disadvantages to be added to list:
1.) Veno damage is probably lowest in the entire game, usually even with pet damage added in.
2.) Venos essentially have to choose between a fox-form build and a caster build, almost making it two seperate classes. You can't just switch between them, as the fox-form really needs heavy armor, thus a low focus on Mag, and the caster really needs the Mag. Venos can have either debuffs and physical attacks (made with a magic weapon!!) or ranged damage spells. They can't effectively do both (maybe at late-game levels, but I doubt it even then).
As for phoenix and Hercules, well, that could easily be fixed by some super-powerful class-specific equipment that is aqcuired the same way. Weapons for the BMs and archers, maybe armor for barbarians, probably wands for mages and clerics, maybe someone gets robes/rings/amulets/etc. Yes, it's an advantage the rich Venos have right now, but it's hardly unfixable.0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »Again, clicking on the skill takes so much concentration after you have the mob selected. Dont tell me you're complaining about that.
First off as I said a pet can only fight 1 monster at a time, not an entire mob. The rest of the mob comes after the veno.
And it can be a pain to click it's skills, heal the pet and fight on your own at the same time.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Caleb_zan - Heavens Tear wrote: »Veno Disadvantages to be added to list:
1.) Veno damage is probably lowest in the entire game, usually even with pet damage added in.
2.) Venos essentially have to choose between a fox-form build and a caster build, almost making it two seperate classes. You can't just switch between them, as the fox-form really needs heavy armor, thus a low focus on Mag, and the caster really needs the Mag. Venos can have either debuffs and physical attacks (made with a magic weapon!!) or ranged damage spells. They can't effectively do both (maybe at late-game levels, but I doubt it even then).
As for phoenix and Hercules, well, that could easily be fixed by some super-powerful class-specific equipment that is aqcuired the same way. Weapons for the BMs and archers, maybe armor for barbarians, probably wands for mages and clerics, maybe someone gets robes/rings/amulets/etc. Yes, it's an advantage the rich Venos have right now, but it's hardly unfixable.
1. Look at how a veno kills a mob compared to you and you'll change your mind.
2. Venos don't have to be HA to be in fox form. It's not hard to switch, purge/amplify, then go back to casting. In fact it adds more flexibility to the class.
3. Uber-weapons/armor for other classes would cancel out TT and Legendary weaps. I think that's why they arent implemented.0 -
Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »First off as I said a pet can only fight 1 monster at a time, not an entire mob. The rest of the mob comes after the veno.
And it can be a pain to click it's skills, heal the pet and fight on your own at the same time.
Other classes can rarely fight more than one mob, besides bms and barbs. And even then it's usually only two mobs. If one gets ganged, they usually run.
Using skills and healing pet doesnt use the mouse. Set skills to "f" keys, heal pet to a number key, and click the pet skill. Not hard at all.0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »Using skills and healing pet doesnt use the mouse. Set skills to "f" keys, heal pet to a number key, and click the pet skill. Not hard at all.
I'm qute aware how to use my keyboard and mouse thanks. Even with that set up you do still have to use skills for to sepeate things and watch the health of yourself and the pet.
Do you use skills for to seperate things fighting? Do you have to heal urself and another while being attacked by multi mobs. No you don't! And until you do you won't realize that it can be frustrating.chipsing1234 wrote: »Other classes can rarely fight more than one mob, besides bms and barbs. And even then it's usually only two mobs. If one gets ganged, they usually run.
I completely disagree, My husband is a wizard and I've seen him take on 5 monster at a time, MANY TIMES and he don't die. If you know how to use a wizard you can take on larger mobs.
A veno can't take on more than 2-3 safetly. We don't have high enough hp. While our pet is killing 1 we have the rest of the mob attacking us. We only have 2 AOE's and one of them takes 2 sparks. So how do you think a veno can mob any easier than anyone else?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
I personally say the one main advantage that a veno has over any other class is the ability to lure. Other than that our advantages have disadvantages too. Just like other classes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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Toxickiss - Heavens Tear wrote: »Do you use skills for to seperate things fighting? Do you have to heal urself and another while being attacked by multi mobs. No you don't! And until you do you won't realize that it can be frustrating.
I don't kno about him but I do... I have to watch my magic, heal myself cuz I get aggro when I heal the person dying, and I have to heal an entire party that won't stick together and everyone pulls mobs from every direction... And then when someone dies they b***h at me and say I wasn't paying attention... Some classes do have to watch just as many things as veno's do... b:surrender0 -
chipsing1234 wrote: »I don't think you realize the incredibly long casting time for a wiz heal. It's nearly impossible to use in battle.
Also I forgot to mention that along with morning dew if you use sutra a wizard can heal 3 times in 6 seconds possible 4. Two wizards can heal a tank if they stagger their morning dews in a tt 1-3 or less.
So I still stand by the fact that wizards being able to heal is an advantage, I believe way more advantage than the venos.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Coshten - Sanctuary wrote: »I don't kno about him but I do... I have to watch my magic, heal myself cuz I get aggro when I heal the person dying, and I have to heal an entire party that won't stick together and everyone pulls mobs from every direction... And then when someone dies they b***h at me and say I wasn't paying attention... Some classes do have to watch just as many things as veno's do... b:surrender
Yes i agree you do, I fully believe that a cleric is the hardest working class in squad.
What I was saying is that he was acting as though our pets just go do their thing and we don't have to worry about them. I wanted to just get him to realize that it's not smooth sailing. Being a veno can be frustrating also.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Ok this is my last one I have to do some work. Another advantage to wizards are their shields. I personally think (besides clerics) they have some of the best buffs in the game.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
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For venos you might want to add that they can lure 1 mob at a time from a cluster.
Pets do unreduced damage to bosses.
Pets do unreduced PVP damage.0 -
As an Archer I really really hate that I can't just open up on a boss unless there is a really good tank with me. Really gimps the damage that I so love with them. Also the fact that we have absolutely no healing spell for ourselves is a big pain the ****. If Wizards have them so should we b:angrySanctuary - Novie 84 Archer inactive
Sanctuary - Avatea 62 Veno (with herc) b:victory
Dreamweaver - Nova 60 Cleric inactive0 -
Mishie - Sanctuary wrote: »For venos you might want to add that they can lure 1 mob at a time from a cluster.
Pets do unreduced damage to bosses.
Pets do unreduced PVP damage.
Pets DO have reduced pvp damage. Just one skill does not.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Novie - Sanctuary wrote: »As an Archer I really really hate that I can't just open up on a boss unless there is a really good tank with me. Really gimps the damage that I so love with them. Also the fact that we have absolutely no healing spell for ourselves is a big pain the ****. If Wizards have them so should we b:angry
At least we make up for it with the HP debuff skill, which makes us the preferred DD to take on TT runs over wizards -.-
And holy heck Toxic, why'd you post so many times in a row? @_@ There's an edit button.
Morning dew is useless. It's a supplementary heal and is useful in rare occasions but it shouldn't even be considered as an advantage. It's too slow to be useful except as a replacement for pots while you're questing or something. All the other healing skills in the game are better than it. Yes, even the 10% HP recovery on spark (lol I'm just kidding).[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
I think you should note the cost of venos. They can be great grinders with an almost nil cost, or, if one chooses to get phoenix and herc one can expect to pay 20 million gold(or $200) per pet plus extra pet food cost. Thus they can become the most expensive class to build.
The issue should not be that venos have an inherent advantage, but that they can purchase an advantage that none others can. Would be good if PWi sold weapons/skills for around the same price that would give other classes an equal enhancement.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Agravain - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think you should note the cost of venos. They can be great grinders with an almost nil cost, or, if one chooses to get phoenix and herc one can expect to pay 20 million gold(or $200) per pet plus extra pet food cost. Thus they can become the most expensive class to build.
The issue should not be that venos have an inherent advantage, but that they can purchase an advantage that none others can. Would be good if PWi sold weapons/skills for around the same price that would give other classes an equal enhancement.
Sell an item that gives other classes immunity to all phoenix attacks.b:laugh
After they give flesh ream the damage reduction it should have.Main characters
Celestial Sage Venomancer Zoe - 100
Sage Barbarian Malego - 910 -
Agravain - Heavens Tear wrote: »I think you should note the cost of venos. They can be great grinders with an almost nil cost, or, if one chooses to get phoenix and herc one can expect to pay 20 million gold(or $200) per pet plus extra pet food cost. Thus they can become the most expensive class to build.
The issue should not be that venos have an inherent advantage, but that they can purchase an advantage that none others can. Would be good if PWi sold weapons/skills for around the same price that would give other classes an equal enhancement.
Yeah please, give me a weapon with berserk that Ignores pvp damage reduction, and when the WF run to these forums and complain about it bring overpowered I'll tell them to stop QQ b:bye
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Yes, I demand that crits not suffer PvP reduction b:laughb:laughb:laughb:laugh
C'mon, nix can land that flesh ream on me 100%, what's the harm in 20% chance to do 16K damage
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
hows this for an idea. Sell battle pet parts similar to the phoenix and herc which would create a defense pet, an all-class pet that would defend player but not attack.
I want one already [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
Saitada - Sanctuary wrote: »They want 'Cat Scratch Fever' maybe? Or more likely, they have never bothered to run the class to a decent level and are basing everything from low level experience, rumor and misinformation promoted by others with a bad case of.... pet-envy.
I'm going to bed. It's 2:30am here in Hawai'i and I have a whale watching trip to get up early for.
~Saitada
I have ran a veno to lvl 80, i rolled it in the first week of Sanctuary opening, i think i can safely say after playing a veno to that level that they are the easiest class in the game and are bordering on being overpowered, i got to 80 in a little under 2 and a half months, i used to run TT60 solo at lvl 64-65 and because of this ended up with about 25 mill as i needed to spend hardly anything on pots and repairs , pvp wise i was pretty unstoppable with a charm and my sawfly (was LA build btw, and this was before the phx and herc were available), i quit my veno after the Herc and Phx came out even though i could of afforded one, i felt no sense of achievement getting my veno to that level cos it was just TOO easy, so i transferred all my cash to new toons and sold all my gear, christ knows how much more easy it is with a Herc and phx, i feel a lot more happier playing my archer as i feel i have had to actually put some effort into leveling.0 -
Agravain - Heavens Tear wrote: »hows this for an idea. Sell battle pet parts similar to the phoenix and herc which would create a defense pet, an all-class pet that would defend player but not attack. I want one already
No. This will never happen. First of all it's too much work for the devs. Second, a pet that will defend you removes the need for tanking classes. Then the server will become overcrowded with DD classes.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
ಥ_ಥ MOAR.
SkyKoC - How long is yours?0 -
Mishie - Sanctuary wrote: »For venos you might want to add that they can lure 1 mob at a time from a cluster.
Pets do unreduced damage to bosses.
Pets do unreduced PVP damage.
Lol, there is only one pet [SKILL] which dosen't have a 75% damage reduction in pvp which is flesh ream.
Get your facts right please o_O[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0
This discussion has been closed.
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