How to be successful on the new servers!

Sejhia - Heavens Tear · February 2009

As a fairly new player I will add my observation here. Venos are overpowered. It has nothing to do with the developers intention to develop a solo class. It has to do with the fact that balancing classes in these type games is a pretty difficult task.

I come from playing a game where I was a fairly high level pet class, and what I was able to do as a pet class in terms of PvE and PvE could only be achieved by the other classes by putting in far more effort than I had to. I openly admitted to the classes overpoweredness and when I quit the game I left recommendations for rebalancing of the classes.

From an in game perspective I have played around with various classes and by a very big margin venos are rediculously easier to play than the other classes. Having picked a wizard as my main I can easily see the wide gap/imbalance the developers have created between the classes.

It is a situation that needs to be addressed. Having played other mmos as well it is usual for the offending classes players to become jittery when everyone complains about them. Reason being that many a time when a class, skill, pet etc was deemed OP, the resultant nerf made the game no better balance wise. I will never forget how in one mmo a single stat nerf dragged them from being the best PvP class to the worst in one update/patch.

These Korean mmo developers still have a difficult time striking balances. I could keep the argument that venos were made to solo but to justify that would mean that you would have to point out the advantage of every class to me. Frankly in PWI that is not so. For e.g. wizards are simply gimp. By default archers, venos, clerics and make rolling a wizard a waste of time. I play the wizard simply because that is the class I like and I am taking my time playing but if I were more seriously into this game I definitely would not pick wizard.

To me I think if you are going to make a class good at a particular aspect of the game (venos can solo and PvP withe phoenix better than all other) then you have to give an advantage to everyone else so for e.g. Let BM have a drop rate boost passive, Let wizards have an inate ability to craft better gears at a higher rate, give barbs the abiltiy to buy stuff from NPC at a reduced cost e.g. 10% less, let archers be able to refine gears with a higher rate of success than others and let clerics be able to farm mats at x2 e.g. when digging up logs if you normally get 1 you get 2 and if you kill a mob and normally get 1 rough fur you get 2 instead. That is from a money making perspective and even those suggestions would need balancing. I don't mention venos because they already have a huge advantage i.e. ability to solo dungeons and get a pet than can beat every one in PvP.

From a PvP perspective definitely some skill changes are in order. For e.g. Wizards are far too easy to kill BUT wait, I'm not complaining keep it that way but the for the sake of keeping the game competitive boost their PvP power a bit. Give people a real reason to fear me. If they can kill me in 2 hits due to my weak armor give me the ability to kill them in 2 hits due to my overwhelming magical power, thats only fair. (Ok this part is completely biased but I admit it openly).

Are venos OP: Yes. Anyone who can't see or admit it most likely plays one.

chipsing1234 · February 2009

Chabi - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I read most of the posts in this thread. And i believe you forgot to mention one of the biggest factor about all advantages/disadvantages.

Time!
You forget tha even if a veno with a herc can solo most things that the other classes can not.
It takes so much time to solo a TTsquadmode run solo that im almost sure that 90% of the venos in game dont do it. A solo run in 2-2 squad mode takes me a minimum of 4 hours including trashmobs. Have to do some very hp rich mobs to get to bosses.

Which leaves 10% of the venos. And if you look at what kind of players those 10% are. You will sertenly find that those are the hardcore ones.
This kind of players no matter what class they play are extremly stubborn in getting what they want in what ever game they play. And spend much much more time then the average player to get it.
And we can all get what we want if we are willing to put the time, or in PW, the money to get it.

And like someone mention the venos with hercs keeps the economy in PW rolling. We supply TT mats and molds which keeps them at a lower price.
We buy mats to make wine and mats for subs which keep them at fairly high price. Good for those who realise it, gather them and sell in catmode or in AH.
We buy alot of gold with coins which keeps the visa zhen buyers happy because they get coins fast and to a fair price. About 100k/g in Heavens tear.

And my last point of view. Due to the time it takes to make TT squadmode solo. I usaly take 3 more ppl in the PT and i can assure you all that they are very happy that the herc tanks. It keeps minimum costs in charms for everyone.

Dont hate us so much we are not all bad egocentric people. But i do enyoy solo most of my time in game and venos rocks for that b:bye

I think you missed the whole time aspect. Squad mode saves time? Yes, with a squad. Soloing a TT....squad mode? That's your own choice. I've purely been mentioning soloing TT...solo mode. Of course soloing TT squad mode will take a while. You've got no DD...oh wait, pets do normal damage in TT, I forgot. And did you conveniently forget to mention that while you "solo" squad mode, there's not 5 other people to split drops with?

chipsing1234 · February 2009

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

I can also say the barbs name and claim he quit, big deal?
Dunno bout you but I'm playing with my guild, so yeah I can compare all I want.

You do 1 run, get 2~4 mats. Spent 30 mins ~ 1 hr depending on luck getting the ulti sub (since every1 will be hunting for it).
Squad does 1 run, get 6~10 mats and a bunch of bones. No time spent hunting.

I'll stay with squad tyvm.

It's not anyone, any class's fault but your own personal fault for not farming the mats before planning to do TT. Everyone knows to mine everything you can.
Look, your example illustrates it perfectly. You do one run, get 2-4 mats. Those are all yours. Squad does one run, 6-10 mats. Divided by six. Each person gets one mat, the last is sold and money distributed. You just proved yourself that you get more from running by yourself than with a squad.

Novie - Sanctuary · February 2009

Sejhia - Heavens Tear wrote: »

INSERT GREAT COMMENTS HERE

Sorry for not quoting the whole post but it was rather long. You brought up lots of great points so kudos to you b:victory

Moytoy - Heavens Tear · February 2009

WOOT ! So easy ! you say 5 days and Im level 70 + phoenix and herc !! =D b:laugh

lol kidding , anyway , I would say just open the main you want without all this veno stuff , waste of time , seriously .
just have fun from the game , the money will come at the higher levels no matter what .
b:bye

Aesthor - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Oh rly? They're opening new servers???

Edit: Yes they are, I fail at reading news -.-

Lessie - Lost City · February 2009

chipsing1234 wrote: »

It's not anyone, any class's fault but your own personal fault for not farming the mats before planning to do TT. Everyone knows to mine everything you can.
Look, your example illustrates it perfectly. You do one run, get 2-4 mats. Those are all yours. Squad does one run, 6-10 mats. Divided by six. Each person gets one mat, the last is sold and money distributed. You just proved yourself that you get more from running by yourself than with a squad.

You conveniently forgot drop rate is significantly lower in solo mode, I've done more than 4 runs in a row with NO MAT DROPS at all.
2-4 is too good my bad there, I'd say 0-3.

Squad runs always get 5+ mats.

Details...

swgs · February 2009

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

You conveniently forgot drop rate is significantly lower in solo mode, I've done more than 4 runs in a row with NO MAT DROPS at all.
2-4 is too good my bad there, I'd say 0-3.

Squad runs always get 5+ mats.

Details...

I have never get more then 3 mats in 1-1, 1-2, 1-3 solo. the most I get from 2-1 (3 bosses) are 4 mats. on average, I only get 1.5 mats per run on HH1-x. when you count in the cost of subs, and some mats worth almost nothing, it really does not make sense to solo HH. I stopped solo HH 10 levels ago. good luck to all new venos.

chipsing1234 · February 2009

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

You conveniently forgot drop rate is significantly lower in solo mode, I've done more than 4 runs in a row with NO MAT DROPS at all.
2-4 is too good my bad there, I'd say 0-3.

Squad runs always get 5+ mats.

Details...

4 runs with no drops? I'd say on average that doesn't happen often.
Squad runs always get 5 mats. But there's 6 people.

chipsing1234 · February 2009

swgs wrote: »

I have never get more then 3 mats in 1-1, 1-2, 1-3 solo. the most I get from 2-1 (3 bosses) are 4 mats. on average, I only get 1.5 mats per run on HH1-x. when you count in the cost of subs, and some mats worth almost nothing, it really does not make sense to solo HH. I stopped solo HH 10 levels ago. good luck to all new venos.

Yeah, soloing 2-x counts too. Getting 3 mats on a single run, for a single person, is pretty good, don't you think? In a single run, on average, in squad mode the most a person can hope to get is one mat, and sometimes not even enough drop for each person to get one. This isn't to mention all venos have to do to get more drops is find 3 people to open the door for squad mode, then go in and solo squad mode. It'll be harder, but hey, now you get squad drops all for yourself.

Granrey - Sanctuary · February 2009

My stupid question:

Where is the info about new servers?

Aesthor - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

My stupid question:

Where is the info about new servers?

Right here my fellow news-ignoring friend.

swgs · February 2009

chipsing1234 wrote: »

Yeah, soloing 2-x counts too. Getting 3 mats on a single run, for a single person, is pretty good, don't you think? In a single run, on average, in squad mode the most a person can hope to get is one mat, and sometimes not even enough drop for each person to get one. This isn't to mention all venos have to do to get more drops is find 3 people to open the door for squad mode, then go in and solo squad mode. It'll be harder, but hey, now you get squad drops all for yourself.

It depends on how you see it, the best one I have had is 3 mirages, 1 Frenzy Lion's Skin, 2 Forshura's Armors and 1 Feng's Black Armor. That's about 600k drops, deduct 100k for subs. I get 500K profit. which is really good. but most of the time, I can only get on average less then 250K drops. a 2-1 usually takes me about 30 minutes to finish. which mean 300k profit a hour. I can play veno style AoE to get almost same amount of drops in a hour, and I do not need to spend time to sell mats, plus i will get exp every one needs.
Yes, I make more when I solo squad. But I personally have never done it, since I can not let me just kick my friends out after them fly all the way to open the door for me, when I do squad, even most squad members just following and do some DD when it comes to the boss, i still split the drops evenly, so I do not make much coins than solo.
As a veno, I think we do make more coins then other classes. but it is not from HH, it is because we usually do not need any pots and we kill faster then most other classes when grinding. unless you have 3 alts to open HH squad for you, or you feel comfortable to let your friends fly to HH and get nothing in return. you would not make a much as you are thinking.

chipsing1234 · February 2009

swgs wrote: »

It depends on how you see it, the best one I have had is 3 mirages, 1 Frenzy Lion's Skin, 2 Forshura's Armors and 1 Feng's Black Armor. That's about 600k drops, deduct 100k for subs. I get 500K profit. which is really good. but most of the time, I can only get on average less then 250K drops. a 2-1 usually takes me about 30 minutes to finish. which mean 300k profit a hour. I can play veno style AoE to get almost same amount of drops in a hour, and I do not need to spend time to sell mats, plus i will get exp every one needs.
Yes, I make more when I solo squad. But I personally have never done it, since I can not let me just kick my friends out after them fly all the way to open the door for me, when I do squad, even most squad members just following and do some DD when it comes to the boss, i still split the drops evenly, so I do not make much coins than solo.
As a veno, I think we do make more coins then other classes. but it is not from HH, it is because we usually do not need any pots and we kill faster then most other classes when grinding. unless you have 3 alts to open HH squad for you, or you feel comfortable to let your friends fly to HH and get nothing in return. you would not make a much as you are thinking.

I believe finding people to spend 30 seconds in TT to open the door is easier than finding people to accompany you 3 hours to get through TT, use up charm and money with repairs. Especially if they're friends. If youre in a guild, just ask if anyone's close and has a second to spare.
Even if you don't make a giant fortune with each run, you still get TT mats. Meaning, if you didn't have any TT equips beforehand, now you can get them at your leisure and convenience. A luxury that no other class could possibly afford.
If, as you claim, playing "veno style AOE" can get you 300k in an hour grinding, is that not more ridiculous benefits venos can get?

swgs · February 2009

chipsing1234 wrote: »

If, as you claim, playing "veno style AOE" can get you 300k in an hour grinding, is that not more ridiculous benefits venos can get?

Yes, it does, but you have to have a Herc to do that. not all veno has a herc or phoenix. but any way, if you think veno can AoE is a "ridiculous benefits", then what about archer's zhen party, what about BM and Barb's AoE. When I play AoE, I only see BMs and Barbs in that area, never see another veno. Does that sounds far to veno.
veno do have it's own advantage, but most advantage comes from CS pets. 90% of veno's do not have a CS pets. I do not want to get into another discussion about veno and other classes again, just want to mention every class has some thing unqiue, veno is over powered discussed every where now, but did we complain about archer and wizard can still one shot us. and if you think veno is over powered, why not just play veno? the answer is sample, you like all the advantage you already have, but do not want other class has a chance to have any advantage on you.

chipsing1234 · February 2009

swgs wrote: »

Yes, it does, but you have to have a Herc to do that. not all veno has a herc or phoenix. but any way, if you think veno can AoE is a "ridiculous benefits", then what about archer's zhen party, what about BM and Barb's AoE. When I play AoE, I only see BMs and Barbs in that area, never see another veno. Does that sounds far to veno.
veno do have it's own advantage, but most advantage comes from CS pets. 90% of veno's do not have a CS pets. I do not want to get into another discussion about veno and other classes again, just want to mention every class has some thing unqiue, veno is over powered discussed every where now, but did we complain about archer and wizard can still one shot us. and if you think veno is over powered, why not just play veno? the answer is sample, you like all the advantage you already have, but do not want other class has a chance to have any advantage on you.

...have you been reading this thread? I've covered many of the points you mention. Again, do you realize you're comparing yourself with zhen parties? A single person compared to a squad. Archer and wiz can one shot if lucky, but can also be one-shotted if unlucky. It balances out.
Why is there this faulty reasoning that simply because a class is powerful that everyone wants to play it? The reason for different classes is to suit peoples' different playing styles. But now, with one class having significant advantage over the rest, it's more tempting to roll veno simply because of the ease of making money and doing things by yourself, even things which aren't meant to be done by yourself.
Notice I haven't made accusations about you. So don't make accusations about me.

Granrey - Sanctuary · February 2009

jalenstar4ever wrote: »

want To Know How To Be A Successful Troll?

Well, Its Actually Quite Simple:

Post A Sarcastic 20,000 Word Post Clearly Illustrating Your Obvious Resentment Toward Venos.

Two Simple Solutions To Alleviate Your Pain;

1. See A Psych

2. Go Play Wow

Ha Ha Ha Lol

Granrey - Sanctuary · February 2009

Aesthor - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Right here my fellow news-ignoring friend.

Thx LOL I ignore how I miss those news.

andracil · February 2009

First and only warning: Quit the flaming.

AndromedaB - Sanctuary · February 2009

andracil wrote: »

First and only warning: Quit the flaming.

i like pie
end of story

Supermanx - Lost City · February 2009

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

You conveniently forgot drop rate is significantly lower in solo mode, I've done more than 4 runs in a row with NO MAT DROPS at all.
2-4 is too good my bad there, I'd say 0-3.

Squad runs always get 5+ mats.

Details...

i know a veno that solo 2-1 for 4 hrs and got 2 Fengs Steel Armor and 1 black orb ( gold HH mats ) plus the normal HH drops

i dont think that normally happens since solo drops 70% time suck b:cry

p.s i stop reading after this quote my WQ is done b:laugh

AndromedaB - Sanctuary · February 2009

andracil wrote: »

First and only warning: Quit the flaming.

i like pie
end of story

Aesthor - Heavens Tear · February 2009

Granrey - Sanctuary wrote: »

Thx LOL I ignore how I miss those news.

Yea, I missed it too. Made myself look like an idiot in an earlier post on this thread and had to edit it xDD

chipsing1234 · February 2009

Supermanx - Lost City wrote: »

i know a veno that solo 2-1 for 4 hrs and got 2 Fengs Steel Armor and 1 black orb ( gold HH mats ) plus the normal HH drops

i dont think that normally happens since solo drops 70% time suck b:cry

p.s i stop reading after this quote my WQ is done b:laugh

*points*...

The_Wall - Heavens Tear · February 2009

RAWR I'm a tiger

chipsing1234 · February 2009

The_Wall - Heavens Tear wrote: »

RAWR I'm a tiger

^^........

Baraiai - Sanctuary · February 2009

jalenstar4ever wrote: »

Want to know how to be a successful troll?

Well, its actually quite simple:

Post a sarcastic 20,000 word post clearly illustrating your obvious resentment toward venos.

Two simple solutions to alleviate your pain;

1. See a psych

2. Go play WOW

I second your idea! Go play WoW if you hate the game so damn much. That or don't play in a PvP server if you're ganna cry about getting your **** kicked by a veno with a pheonix. Just be glad you didn't spend $200 on feathers and chose to use it on Charms or Guardians

p3nnstate · February 2009

I love this argument.

The main ideas that make people complain about veno's is they can solo
anything, phnx is over powered and they can make money and apparently easy as "cheese."

Coming from an archer, I could give two **** about veno's and what your **** arguments are. I choose the PVP server to kick **** and from my experience...veno's are the most enjoyable targets next to clerics. If your pissed at veno's...go pk some of them.

Also about all of their advantages, just be a veno then...you obviously can't beat them(developers already made the class...stfu they know what their doing)
so join them. Like the guy for this thread, make a veno then your alternate. I enjoy being an archer, im not the poorest but I make enough for legendary weapon's/armour. Having millions will just bore me to death since it affects everything I do.

Veno's can do what they want, glitch bosses whatever. IF you hate veno's..kill them. If your not in PVP server...then please take your carebear **** out of this arguement and go make yourself a veno or just shutup and deal with them.

chipsing1234 · February 2009

p3nnstate wrote: »

I love this argument.

The main ideas that make people complain about veno's is they can solo
anything, phnx is over powered and they can make money and apparently easy as "cheese."

Coming from an archer, I could give two **** about veno's and what your **** arguments are. I choose the PVP server to kick **** and from my experience...veno's are the most enjoyable targets next to clerics. If your pissed at veno's...go pk some of them.

Also about all of their advantages, just be a veno then...you obviously can't beat them(developers already made the class...stfu they know what their doing)
so join them. Like the guy for this thread, make a veno then your alternate. I enjoy being an archer, im not the poorest but I make enough for legendary weapon's/armour. Having millions will just bore me to death since it affects everything I do.

Veno's can do what they want, glitch bosses whatever. IF you hate veno's..kill them. If your not in PVP server...then please take your carebear **** out of this arguement and go make yourself a veno or just shutup and deal with them.

Haha, I'm glad you actually support my viewpoint through your ****-it-kill-them post.
I never said I hated the game. I just see an imbalance with a class which has an ability that is granted far too much power: the ability to solo. With this seemingly harmless ability, they can gather an enormous amount of wealth, but more importantly, save time others are forced to spend. Gnight.

Ren - Lost City · February 2009

chipsing1234 wrote: »

There's yet a person to say my arguments aren't legit.

The only factual point made in your wall of text is the "chintien edges will sell for 250k and drums 300k+ if you're ahead of the level curve"

But the profit still isn't that great, especially not what you make it out to be.

Supermanx - Lost City wrote: »

i know a veno that solo 2-1 for 4 hrs and got 2 Fengs Steel Armor and 1 black orb ( gold HH mats ) plus the normal HH drops

i dont think that normally happens since solo drops 70% time suck b:cry

p.s i stop reading after this quote my WQ is done b:laugh

Was that me? And yes it's certainly uncommon. I almost crapped myself when I got 2 feng golds in one solomode kill. Went from never seeing gold, rarely getting green, to getting the max it can drop in a kill.

How to be successful on the new servers!

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