Nerf The Veno

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

all venos i know can solo it , its really not that hard , you need high magic(-channeling is a plus but not required), a decent pet, no harder then any other class getting decent equips
please reread my statement it does NOT take a long time to solo because pet damage (well golem, cub has low damage) is not based on opponent level hence venos are the highest DD in TT...
no need to use charms for veno their heal costs next to nothing , thier mana cost is <5 pots per 1-1 run typically, if anything a false lure or a problem with the patrolling/archers can make a veno die, hp charm could be useful they do have bramble though, its not like wizard cleric archer arent squishy

my entire argument stands on them hinging on soloing TT? well most of it does as that is their main unbalanced part of the class, im not saying the class is 100% overpowered it just has a few aspects which are unfair(TT, pet attack/def ignoring opp level, and bleed bug are things i can think of atm that make it unbalanced, and the 2 new pets)

TT is a basic dungeon, any class can solo well if he/she learn to play their class well. Unlike FB 75-80 for example, no one want a veno in their team cus half par damage even with paid pets from CS wouldnt cut in. How do you commend on this?

If you have try tanking a veno pet naked and armed to see if it ignore level tho. You probably wont say this.

Some class has bleed too, does it make them overpower? As pointed out, bleed from player skill a level 3 cost 1K damage, it take pet bleed at L4 to do that. Who is overpower?

The two new pet are paid with real money you not know? Which class need to pay 400 USD inorder to compete reasonably will in pve and pvp?

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@daji but veno does it solo, cleric at a higher lvl can , others cant without wasting a ton on pots, you always get enough mirage to cover cost and sometimes drops too depending on luck

@daji earlier
yah tehrs TT 1-1 1-2 1-3 2-1 ect ect im aware....

"Veno is like tank +healer, mind you, veno need decent healing just like EP else it wont cut in. "

umm..thats my points 1 class being able to do what in other cases takes at least 2 classes/players

@daji earlier #1, bee bleed bug, not fair developers suck.

@swift thanks.

I can only solo my first TT 1-1 at L68 if without the help of a cleric, probable at L73 with a golem. My build must have suk badly yeh ? Every time I pull a mob, it cost me half my HP, two hit I am KO, that must be more than 2 HP pot for whole TT run and I wont dare to solo TT without a heal charm on, I must be chicken b:thanks . 5 mirage for 125K compare to 180K for USUB for 2-1 run and you call that profitable?

Veno is a pet class no? What class will it call veno without a pet? Didnt you read that cleric/BM/Barb can solo if they build right and know how?

What about player bleed bug? a L34 with L3 bleed does not damage than phoenix with L3 bleed at the same level? Who is more powerful ? you right tho, fix all bleed bug including player one b:thanks

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

wow that is suck glad my friends by 6x and low 7x learned to properly play a veno i guess

Yeh! least I not complain about veno underpower and can not solo in group mode b:shutup

I won't bother reading this thread, most of its content is players argueing with others which kinda make no sense to me.

The game was more balanced before the Hercules pet comes. What does this pet do? It allows any lv 80+ veno to solo frostland, higher level TT and makes them nearly unbeatable in pvp. IMO the only way to get the game balanced again is to remove or nerf the hercules pet, rest should be fine.

Btw whoever said barbs were better at solo grinding than veno probly never grinded with a barb. To be on top 50 levels with a barb you really have to be hardcore and most of those who made it to the top didn't do it by solo grinding but by spamming FB/zhen/grinding party where their level speed is actually the level speed of other players faster than them. Barbs are the slowest to level please don't say the opposite k thx bye.

they are overpowered they glitch super bosses/and attack through walls and they are the bot of choice need we say more.... nerf them please...

Edit BTW this poll is Broken cause every second character is a Veno of course they will say no they have it good atm

'make the pets untradable'

im cool with this and im veno

haviik wrote: »

i have been playing this game for a while now
In many players opinions the venomancer class is way over powered
The fox form heavy armor build can have more def than the barbarian
The pets make them masters of kill stealing (which is rude and offensive to many players)
They lvl faster, they can solo better, they can make more money.
A few Ideas would be:
make the pets untradable
make their skills less powerful to balance with pets
drop the defense bonus given in fox form

eh that is all i have atm
this class is ruining the game for many players....
i know quite a few who hate venos
i for one don't even party with them

heavy armour veno get 1hit but clerics and wizards so thats overpowered how?

veno have no fast spells and pets are slower than spells/arrows so are the worst ranged KSers

If your complaining about a veno KSing you then the veno probably sent its pet to attack the mob a few seconds before you even saw it and you tried to KS the veno

Hardest class to get into zhen parties and is so many veno's alot of competition so slowest lvling class after 60 (lvl 72 and haven't managed to get into a zhen team yet)

As for crying about soloing TT....Make a veno and solo it yourself loot in solo mode is nothing like group mode you'll pay 60k for a sub spend like half hour in their at least and get a single mirage stone...Easier to make money by grinding than soloing TT

As for pets being overpowered maybe the battlepets are but if a archer bought a 20million bow they would be as well so is no difference and just for your information bear has less defence and attack than golem all it has is stun which is nothing compared to bms stuns

As for them ruining the game and refusing to party with them you should just quit the game to be honest obviously isn't for you

Erinis - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Are you kidding ?
Playing both cleric and veno and veno is way to easier to play.
Wizard and Cleric master KSer ? Then why on wraith atacks in 80% its either archer or veno who get kills (because of faster casting), not mentioning being able kill 2 mobs at same time with pet.
Only way to lvl faster then veno is in Zhen parties and they are lately hard to get in as there is limited amount of good zhen spots.

actually no clerics tend to kill faster than everyone at wraith attacks fast casting strong attacks + wood mobs. Try killing 2 monsters at the same time you'll lose half your health and get ksed on both

There are always zhen spots its a big map you don't have to go to the same ones as everyone else....

Kaelis - Heavens Tear wrote: »

heavy armour veno get 1hit but clerics and wizards so thats overpowered how?

veno have no fast spells and pets are slower than spells/arrows so are the worst ranged KSers

If your complaining about a veno KSing you then the veno probably sent its pet to attack the mob a few seconds before you even saw it and you tried to KS the veno

Hardest class to get into zhen parties and is so many veno's alot of competition so slowest lvling class after 60 (lvl 72 and haven't managed to get into a zhen team yet)

As for crying about soloing TT....Make a veno and solo it yourself loot in solo mode is nothing like group mode you'll pay 60k for a sub spend like half hour in their at least and get a single mirage stone...Easier to make money by grinding than soloing TT

As for pets being overpowered maybe the battlepets are but if a archer bought a 20million bow they would be as well so is no difference and just for your information bear has less defence and attack than golem all it has is stun which is nothing compared to bms stuns

As for them ruining the game and refusing to party with them you should just quit the game to be honest obviously isn't for you




actually no clerics tend to kill faster than everyone at wraith attacks fast casting strong attacks + wood mobs. Try killing 2 monsters at the same time you'll lose half your health and get ksed on both

There are always zhen spots its a big map you don't have to go to the same ones as everyone else....

You forgot to say Full attack cleric kill faster, but 98 out of 100 are pure healers having just one attack spell.

And btw your spells are like 1 second cast, when Clerics have up to 4s and wizards **** well, so veno cast faster.

see there are 20 million bows 80 lvl crimson horn soulsmsher +5 or so is worth around 20 mil on HT dj and bakki have em but they dont do solo TT with em as far as i know
im still working on mine it may be worth 20 mil but its a hell of a lot harder to get for an archer then the battle pets (either run 1-3 for a 1.1% chance to get a gold mat off shooting Aur and you need 2 of the drop or get 45 cube chips for each) oh yah only drops in party mode btw then run 2-2 for the fengs iron bars, then upgrading it in comparison is comparatively a walk in the park

oh did i mention every class has a lvl 80 20 million coin weapon available? venos just have a pet avaiable much more easily and on top of that, and then they can run squad mode TT to make their weapoon instead of having to beg people to run the very unfun 1-3

and i think archer are ultimate ks/get first hit in wraith runs, ill admit its fairly easy then again you could do level appropriate wraith runs and not worry about ks

Lessie - Lost City wrote: »

Your playstyle is different then, I find nuking stuff in a squad way faster than killing 1 by 1.
My wizard outdamages my veno anyday they are more effective ksers.

To all the b:cry"Veno is OP" Go play 1, get to high levels and compare it.
Then you can b:cry with some decent arguments.
(all b:cryargumentsb:cry have been shot down and beaten over and over like a dead horse)

its a bug, blame the developrs
its a developer issue, blame the developers
battle cleric can do solo mode, others cant effectively, no other can solo squad mode
i cant refute pet ignores lvl base defense penalty, developer fault if there is such an issue then

those are ALL REALLY WELL BEAT DOWN
the argument :hey developers need to fix something thats broken/imbalanced and using the its the developers fault dont blame venos argument makes a lotta sense

I am going to create a were-fox.

I wonder if Mosz will give me anything if I turn out to not be overpowered? b:mischievous

My pet's not-level-adjusted 100 damage, my wishful thinking, and some huge numbers of hours will murder all bosses!!!!

*rawr*

shield wrote: »

I've got a level 63 Mage. I'd also like to solo FB29... I'm very well equipped. I'm a LA build with mostly legendary items.

I was soloing fb29 a while back. All the mobs in there are easy kills, so just blast through everything and kill the towerling to open the door. The 8 or so guard Qingzi has are a joke. You'll need some hp pots, though, or a level 29 cleric.

Protip: legendary equips are the most expensive, but not always the best. If you want to tank a boss that does magic damage (like Qingzi), bring along some robes that are missing resistances. One star, single-resist earth robes will provide far more earth defense than the best legendary equips of your level. Throw on Stone Barrier and Qingzi will do like 150/hit to you.

It's a very interesting situation. For real, the only thing that should be done is the fixing of ripping bite. Perhaps it could be powered up a little bit after the fix, so a veno's pet still retains that sense of "OMG IM GUNNA DYE" in PvP, but not be as extreme as it already is. Or, make the Ripping Bite only go to level 3.

erinkun wrote: »

PvP with a veno: Run to the veno and slaughter. Not that hard. I've been butched by a level 30 wizard. If venos are over powered then I'm missin something, because wizards are the strongest class I've seen. I have yet to see a full Int veno slaughter a full int Wiz, thank you.

Money: It's not that easy, it's not the easiest thing in the world. What gave people that idea?

Your arguements are jokes. Money, pvp, over powered spells, def, KSin, amazing solo abilities.

I like how you call their arguments jokes when you're trying to say wizards are the most powerful classes in the game. *cough* Do you not realize that wizards are currently the underdogs of the game, considered the lesser classes? We're only powerful if we get the first hit in a PK situation. You'd need to have some killer gear if you want to be a good in duels, or PvE.
Do you not know how many pots we run through if we don't kite? Do you honestly think we can kill easier than you can as a mage? I sincerely hope you're kidding.

Run up to the veno and slaughter them?
That's what they all say. What you're talking about is a pk situation.
If that's what you meant, then I'd like to see a full int wiz survive if ANY OTHER CLASS came up to them and attacked first. Your situation applies to every class. What's your point?
A veno came up to me with a phoenix and took first hit.
Guess what I did? Nothing. I just died. I couldn't run from a veno who runs faster than me, nor could I even pot/hiero my way out of that bleed.

Money wise, you don't spam pots nearly half as much as other classes.
Ask the melee classes, they run through hp pots faster than you run through pure waters. As a mage, the I run through hp AND mana pots because I'm the one taking the damage (not my pet!). Pots cost a lot of money at this level, and its very easy to go through pots unless I sit and regen.
Do you need to sit and regen?

However I will give you credit for the fact that venos do NOT make as much money as people think. But I definitely think venos still save (keyword) a lot more money than say... an archer who needs to spam hp pots/mana pots constantly in order to solo. They can't sit and regen, since they add mainly to dex.

Sure, we're good at soloin... until we aggro the monster from our pet, then we're in trouble.

You're not the only squishy class in the game mind you. Guess what we wizards have if we don't have a pet? Oh wait! We don't HAVE a pet! We take the damage ourselves, and guess what? We have just as much hp as you do! If not less! Are we in trouble? Hell no.
Whether its robes or light armor you're using as a veno, you've got just as much survivability as any other mage with the same equip, except you've got a pet. Please don't give me that bs about "omg i aggroed the monster" please.

Wiz's have the most powerful spells, KSin is all on the user, def... how many heavy armored venos run around? pvp, run and kill the veno, **** teh pet! and money well.. if venos make money so easily I wouldn't be sitting around with 14k for cash.

We have the most powerful spells?
Have you even played a mage? I've yet to see something a mage can do that another class CAN NOT do in party/grinding. In terms of DPS, an archer can out damage us, in terms of party effectiveness, clerics/barbs far outweigh us, and in terms of luring capability, venos win completely in that situation. What can mages do? We do damage, take aggro accidently and get killed by bosses. Well, we're not THAT pathetic, but I find your silly belief that mages are the most powerful classes absolutely ridiculous.

And the fact YOU have only 14k in cash doesn't mean ALL VENOS can't make money. Please tell me WHAT you ended up sinking all your money into, something that makes sense please. Not something like "Omg I had to teleport for WQ from Arch to 1k so many times" or something like that, because we all do.

Here are some facts I know as to why other classes can't save money, and they're perfectly legitimate excuses. Tell me if you think venos apply to any of them:

Blademasters: HP Pots are mandatory, as are MP Pots if you need to use skills to kill faster. These are a must, unless you'd rather die there. Repair costs are a huge concern because blademasters are taking the damage upfront. Repair costs go from 70k to as high as 150k or more after fb runs in parties. Venos? You don't get hit, your pet does. Doesn't apply.

Barbarians: Same as above, not to mention they do less damage than blademasters meaning they're sitting there absorbing the damage even longer than bms are. Also, they're the tanks for all the parties out there, their repair costs + potion costs are extremely high. They spend probably even more than bms in repair/potion costs.

Archers: Easily one of the highest potion users, they have to constantly use mana potions to kill, or face the same repair costs as blademasters/barbarians for not killing mobs fast enough. This is a given, they spend a TON of money on potions. Extremely expensive class, once again, pot spamming doesn't apply to venos.

Mages: Lesser repair costs, since we try not to take damage, but unfortunately we spend a lot on mana potions due to our spells costing a huge amount of mana. Also, because of low hp, we need to use hp pots quite often rather than healing ourselves (especially since morning dew costs so much mana). I'd say this is the lesser expensive class than the above 3, but still quite a bit of money spent on mana potions.

Clerics: Same as mages, except they usually end up taking damage as well (because their damage is lower and they do not have the same kiting abilities). They use a lot of money on potions/repair costs in dungeons especially to maintain regen aura. Again, doesn't apply to venos.

Can you think of any reasons why venos would be poorer than the above?

Jrudora - Lost City wrote: »

Can you think of any reasons why venos would be poorer than the above?

tankhunter covered some of what i was about to type, mainly the part about teach pets new skills. But there's more.

First is pet food, altho i will admit thats a rather low cost for the majority of pets. It still adds up. However if you have a Herc or Pheonix, they wont accept the store bought cheap waters, then you're paying the now over inflated Auction price of 4k per food (5 minutes) to keep it happy and raise its loyalty. You can go the route of 2G (about 230 coin) for a week of keeping them happy without food, but you still have to spam food regardless to get their loyalty up at the start and after every occasion they've died.

Another big cost is actually getting the good pets besides Herc and Pheonix (as their costs have already been discussed to death). Shaodu cub goes for about 1.5 mil on Heaven's Tear, Kowlin about 2 mil.

Another cost isnt coin but time. You know what i found happens if i level thru FBs & quests & dailies on my Veno, i have extremely under levelled pets. Contrary to some people's beliefs, they do not level quickly. A full loyalty pet gains 15 XP per kill if the mob is equal or higher level (decreasing XP down to about 9 levels below before no XP per kill). At level 67 (my current Veno level) they need 2350 XP per level, thats around 157 kills per pet. Most Venos seem to have 3-4 pets they need to keep levelled so we need now around 628 kills. And they wont level if we are (on that very rare circumstance) accepted to zhen. I dont know if its a bug or intended, but if i'm in a group, i still have to have done the most damage (as if in solo kill ownership rules) for my pet to get XP. So its necessary that we grind quite a while every level.

So, am i bitching about any of this? Not at all, its part of the costs of being a Veno. Can we solo TT better? Yes. Can we level while making a sandwich in zhen? Never. Every job has advantages and disadvantages.