Nerf The Veno

Kikii - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

just look at TT and tell me there is not a lack of balance...

and how many times ur seen veno's in zhen party or how many times some1 asked to em in zhen party? and cuz veno can solo TT and other classes not u ppl cry and u havent noticed that other classes make lvlups 100x faster than veno so where is lack of balance ? i dont get it

Homaru - Lost City

Even if a defensive veno build has for defensive then a barb, no one in their right mind would let a veno tank so man your entire argument just got nerfed. O and those of you whole who chose to nerf the venomancer...none of you must play one. If you played one you'd be like Im so "OP". So SHADDUP NOOBS!!!!!!!

Niamy - Sanctuary

Nerf the cleric they ability to stack ironheart re overpower!!!!!!
Nerf the wizzards they deals lots of damage!!!!
Nerf the Barbs they resist lots of damage and take agression skill re unfair!!!
well... first use a veno and after post , the veno save lots of money... yes but u see how much cost upgrade pets skills??? and u must spend in veno skills too, and u must upgrade skills in all ur pets off course more the cost to mantain all ur pets loyalty, etc... anyway the veno spends lots of money too
Yes maybe venos can solo somethings before other classes but like someone say in other reply, all classes can solo things.
The boss partys ppl preffer Barb/clerics before a veno, so is hard sometimes get party for some boss like Jewell.
Well there re lots of reply to urs "arguments", so like i said before, use a veno first and later post.

b:bye

peregryn

*chuckles*
I am the kind of player who tries 'everything' ...... of course this means that none of my characters are very high, or very powerful but hey what do I care.

Personal opinion, once you get into nerf this class, nerf that class, you end up with a game where all races, classes differ only in appearance, skill has no meaning, gear has no meaning ........... RIP!

You want to complain about a particular Pet, or Skill, or Weapon fine, collect 'facts' and submit it as a bug report. But complaining about a class being Overpowered because they have a different toolset than you do is just silly. 98% of the time it will come down to playstyle/skill of the 'player' not the class.

A humorous example: Lets start a Poll about nerfing those nasty Winged elves, why should they get flight from level 1 when the rest of us have to wait till 30, why should a level 7 Elf Cleric be able to 'fly' to Dragon city (I did that myself to see if I could locate something for someone)

Xtonyx - Heavens Tear

aaah another veno sob sob page. please just grab a kleenex. Venos dont really have the nice golden spoon-fed life you think they do. I know many venos, and they can completely disagree with a lot of these so called facts stated in the list of complaints. And people can give lists of why some other classes should get nerfed, doesn't mean they will as well. Just enjoy your class you play, and if your envious of a veno...make one perhaps? b:chuckle

xenesis

All that coment in this thread has no idea of a lvl 90+ wf with phoenix can do.
WF with phoenix is the only option now to play... , at least they should fix bleed dmg from pet already is too powerfull.
I love seeing lvl 30+ noobs talking about this things ....

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »

What am I looking at in TT?

You do know Clerics can solo both bosses in TT 1-1 in their mid 70s. They can solo Chien before that.

Barbs can solo TT in their late 70s.


Okay so venos can solo TT at lvl 65 instead of 75.. They still arent the only class that can solo TT.

So using TT as an example isnt valid.

10 lvls faster and compare using 3 potions to heal pet to using half a heiro which negates the profit from drops..., not to mention takes them a lot longer to kill because pets work too well against lvl 150 mobs
just saw ur shop too hat like 4mil worth of tt drops >.>

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

venos can zhen , they dont have the + of barb (hp+attack buff) or bm (def buff) but they can lure on mount as well as others
when do you need a party outside FB and HH? (ok boss quest i guess)
normal partys? not many of those..
just look at TT and tell me there is not a lack of balance...

Kikii - Heavens Tear wrote: »

and how many times ur seen veno's in zhen party or how many times some1 asked to em in zhen party? and cuz veno can solo TT and other classes not u ppl cry and u havent noticed that other classes make lvlups 100x faster than veno so where is lack of balance ? i dont get it

thank you for reading, yah veno arent immediately asked to zhen but was that the question ? no? just because you cant answer the tt imbalance you shift the focus (to something that was already answered??)?
and your gonna compare the ability of being able to loose 100k an hour to lvl faster to being able to make a lot of coins?

Kikii - Heavens Tear

@Mosz just make veno and come explain again how bad it is at pvp etc u will see

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Kikii - Heavens Tear wrote: »

@Mosz just make veno and come explain again how bad it is at pvp etc u will see

AGAIN STOP SHIFTING THE SUBJECT
also have you made a heavy armor veno 8x ?

Kikii - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

AGAIN STOP SHIFTING THE SUBJECT
also have you made a heavy armor veno 8x ?

for what i need heavy armors on PvE server ? stop crying and go to zhen and subject was that venos are OP which is not true make one and come complain again

Mosz - Heavens Tear

Kikii - Heavens Tear wrote: »

for what i need heavy armors on PvE server ? stop crying and go to zhen and subject was that venos are OP which is not true make one and come complain again

you talk about PVP for veno sucking and then refuse to make a pvp build veno.. and say im changing subject.. are you a mental case?

and still you cant answer simple questions or make arguments towards a subject presented to you

Mua - Lost City

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you talk about PVP for veno sucking and then refuse to make a pvp build veno.. and say im changing subject.. are you a mental case?

and still you cant answer simple questions or make arguments towards a subject presented to you

I'm not going to enter this argument but I'd like to point out that Heavy build Veno =/= Pvp Build Veno. Light armour *seems* to be the most common but obviously it is the veno's choice.

Carry On.

Kikii - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

you talk about PVP for veno sucking and then refuse to make a pvp build veno.. and say im changing subject.. are you a mental case?

and still you cant answer simple questions or make arguments towards a subject presented to you

yeah i have mental probs nothing to say anymore mr forum troll

giest

I bought a phoenix and I can only imagine the horror it will be at lvl 90. At lvl 40, phoenix was doing DOUBLE the damage of my lvl 65 pet. =p I can't wait to unleash that beast in TW.

There is a balance to this though...... it takes 200 gold easily to get one. =p

Neitchze - Heavens Tear

Let's accept the veno as a class already. They need the pet to keep them alive, otherwise, they're a suck **** wizard. Taking away the Veno's Pet means that The Blademaster loses the sword, The Barbarian his defense, The Wizard his Magic and so on.

Now, Fox form. Lowing the defense would make it pointless to have. The entire reason is to have some advantage. From what I understand, there is on visible speed increase, and the lowering of ones MP is a minus. The Defense is one plus. If a venomancer at levels below 30 was expected to get from place to place the old fashioned way, they would be the most dead class in the game.

Lowering any venomancer stat would change the class altogether. Why change it? It has advantages and disadvantages as any class. I happen to love my blademaster, his Diamond Sutra is a damned lifesaver, but I dislike his lack of magic defense defense. But that is what makes a blademaster a blademaster.

BTW, this was all a reply essentially to the first post.

Cat - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

10 lvls faster and compare using 3 potions to heal pet to using half a heiro which negates the profit from drops..., not to mention takes them a lot longer to kill because pets work too well against lvl 150 mobs
just saw ur shop too hat like 4mil worth of tt drops >.>

Once again your not proving anything.

You know Clerics can grind on the lvl 80 butterflys at lake of woe at lvl 60ish. Your not going to see any other class out there doing that at that lvl.

There are lots of things other classes can do before other classes. Im sure any barb or BM can tank a boss or even mob WAY before a cleric archer or mage could.

Most venos CANNOT solo HH till lvl 63 and even that is pet dependant. I couldnt solo TT till lvl 68. I know others who couldnt till lvl 65. There is even a lvl 70 veno in my guild who still cant solo TT.

So there isnt a magic number and poof all venos can just run TT. Besides all that the point still is OTHER CLASS CAN ALSO SOLO TT. It costs them more heiro? what kinda of arguement is that. And half a charm who the heck you been talking too lol. Cause they must REALLY suck. Lvl 75 cleric in the guild went in and solod TT 1-1 BOTH bosses and used 50k total on both his charms for the ENTIRE run. Also Once again a cleric will use more mp charm than a barb no matter what they are doing. So does that make a barb overpowered? There are differences and variations in all the classes. Some use more some less all dependant on what they doing, how they built, eq, etc.

Actually my shop had about 6m in it b:victoryb:laugh but you can bet your butt that all didnt come from 1 TT run, or 2 or even 10.. It took ALOT of runs to get that many mats. And for the record what i have in MY shop is also meaningless to your arguement. Run around the teleporter in Arch and look at all the shops that have TT in their titles. You know I found 6 up there just now and NOT A SINGLE shop was a venos, and they were all selling 1m + in TT mats.....

Neitchze - Heavens Tear

There is also the seemingly overlooked fact of how good an individual is at his/her articular class. I, for instance, have a level 35 Archer. I did fairly well with him for the most part, but found that as I progressed, the class was becoming far too difficult for me to deal with. I am not used to staying back while an enemy rushes me. Though I can be the sniper, taking potshots at an enemy while it is occupied.

However, I find myself enjoying my level 34 Blademaster very much. He is much more my style. Run in head first, own all, run out, repeat ten times, abusing Diamond Sutra, then finally, after ten-twenty mobs, I have to meditate just to restore MP from sutra use and maybe re-cast Golden Bell Aura. It is just my style.

However, I also find myself enjoying the Venomancer class because of a combination of the above two statements. My pet can tank while I stay back and take shots at the enemy from afar and keeping an eye on my pet's health. However, at early levels, Venomancers can be an extremely expensive class.


So maybe it's not a matter or how good the class is, but how good the player behind the class it. Or perhaps it's all because of the machine you use. Who knows? I just don't think that Venomancer is any more overpowered than any other class.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

so your saying because a veno can run a TT for practically free(and at a lower level) is in no way easier or more profitable then any class that has to use at least half a heiro? (not to mention pretty sure it takes longer for other classes to run it because of pet pet defense/lvl base thing being ignored

yah clerics have a huge advantage on wood mobs, they can aoe grind them, probably wasnt anticipated by developers, havent seen this make much of an impact though, although its possible ive missed it

Nekhebet - Heavens Tear

And again..i check forum and what i see another bunch of so called "pro gamers" ...giving advices to developers on the changes they want for a class that they don't eaven play...sometimes i ask myself ..how can some of u be sooo............. and ................and .............. ?

................= Beeeep

Take a break...venos are not overpowerd.....and about HH try making 100 runs and gain 10=20 milions out of that and we will see what u think of beeing able to solo it.

Have a nice day....enjoy PWI

swiftlikeafox

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

so your saying because a veno can run a TT for practically free(and at a lower level) is in no way easier or more profitable then any class that has to use at least half a heiro? (not to mention pretty sure it takes longer for other classes to run it because of pet pet defense/lvl base thing being ignored

Your entire argument hinges on venos supposedly being able to solo TT, yet as Cat explained NOT ALL venos CAN solo TT, and I'm willing to bet even the ones who can have to do so very slowly and very carefully, and MOST would probably have to use charms the same as any other class if they expect to come back out in one piece.

yah clerics have a huge advantage on wood mobs, they can aoe grind them, probably wasnt anticipated by developers, havent seen this make much of an impact though, although its possible ive missed it

And you'll likely never see anyone making a big deal out of it, because unlike Venos, Clerics are not falsly perceived to be this mythical godly overpowered moneymaking class that everyone appearently loves to hate.

XCloudStrife - Heavens Tear

All you've done was zero in one one character and start taking shots at it.

Take BM for instance. I could sit and grind in any given spot for hours, not use one potion and make a really decent sum of cash. Does that make them overpowered? I think not.

Archers can fly well out of the range of a ground based fighter in PVP and take shots at him without worrying because in the time it takes the melee fighter to get on his aerocraft, he's already down to half health, bleeding, poisoned, and taking 1.5x damage from Spark Eruption.

Clerics never need to buy a potion... period... Their int. stat is so incredible that they can practically recover mid battle. (Ok, serious exaggeration, but you get the idea.)

Venomancers can solo very well (Though it's not really soloing, it's more like having a party member barbarian) and make money well because of that fact. They have a distinguishing characteristic that should be abused to the fullest. The game is about everyone having fun, give the bashing a rest. You're only bumming yourself out. You aren't mad because the Veno's have an advantage, you're only mad because you haven't figured out how to abuse yours.

Mosz - Heavens Tear

swiftlikeafox wrote: »

Your entire argument hinges on venos supposedly being able to solo TT, yet as Cat explained NOT ALL venos CAN solo TT, and I'm willing to bet even the ones who can have to do so very slowly and very carefully, and MOST would probably have to use charms the same as any other class if they expect to come back out in one piece.
.

all venos i know can solo it , its really not that hard , you need high magic(-channeling is a plus but not required), a decent pet, no harder then any other class getting decent equips
please reread my statement it does NOT take a long time to solo because pet damage (well golem, cub has low damage) is not based on opponent level hence venos are the highest DD in TT...
no need to use charms for veno their heal costs next to nothing , thier mana cost is <5 pots per 1-1 run typically, if anything a false lure or a problem with the patrolling/archers can make a veno die, hp charm could be useful they do have bramble though, its not like wizard cleric archer arent squishy

my entire argument stands on them hinging on soloing TT? well most of it does as that is their main unbalanced part of the class, im not saying the class is 100% overpowered it just has a few aspects which are unfair(TT, pet attack/def ignoring opp level, and bleed bug are things i can think of atm that make it unbalanced, and the 2 new pets)

XCloudStrife - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

all venos i know can solo it , its really not that hard , you need high magic(-channeling is a plus but not required), a decent pet, no harder then any other class getting decent equips
please reread my statement it does NOT take a long time to solo because pet damage (well golem, cub has low damage) is not based on opponent level hence venos are the highest DD in TT...
no need to use charms for veno their heal costs next to nothing , thier mana cost is <5 pots per 1-1 run typically, if anything a false lure or a problem with the patrolling/archers can make a veno die, hp charm could be useful they do have bramble though, its not like wizard cleric archer arent squishy

my entire argument stands on them hinging on soloing TT? well most of it does as that is their main unbalanced part of the class, im not saying the class is 100% overpowered it just has a few aspects which are unfair(TT, pet attack/def ignoring opp level, and bleed bug are things i can think of atm that make it unbalanced, and the 2 new pets)

Rest assured, Venomancers won't be the only ones getting the benifits. It is unlikely that the devs would play like that unless they have a FoxGirl fetish.

I'm sure that soon enough, all of the other classes will be getting something special. Maybe special mounts specific to the class, or weapons with incredible power.

Each class has a bleed-like spell as far as I remember. I have an ability which does 1k damage initially, then 1k bleed over 15 seconds. I am only level 34, and the spell is only rank 2. It does this damage to all enemies in a straight line, so if I pull enemies right with Cloud Sprint, I could take out an insane enumber of enemies in almost no time.

swiftlikeafox

I won't comment anymore on TT because I'm only lvl 55 and therefore have no experience in that arena, I'll leave that for Cat....... but where do you get the idea that our pets ignore defense????

Usually if i'm grinding on multiple types of mobs my pets damage will reflect that, some hits are 800, some are 950, some are 1200, so on and so fourth.

i've noticed that my Golem attacks weak on the same mobs that Archers, Barbs, and BMs attack weak on, and will have a strong attack on the same mobs those 3 classes do.

So where is this idea that "pets ignore defense" coming from????

Mosz - Heavens Tear

pets ignore the defense penalty based on level, thats why they high ?/lvl 150 monsters for so much this becomes very important in TT as the bosses are all ?/150 causing a huge defense penalty(i believe somewhere avout 60-75% as they are compareable to the new lvl 7x bosses added with the expansion that have similar resists/defenses)

swiftlikeafox

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

pets ignore the defense penalty based on level, thats why they high ?/lvl 150 monsters for so much this becomes very important in TT as the bosses are all ?/150 causing a huge defense penalty(i believe somewhere avout 60-75% as they are compareable to the new lvl 7x bosses added with the expansion that have similar resists/defenses)

.....so you're telling me that at lvl 63(just 8 more levels for me) I'll be able to send in my Golem(who when last I checked gets owned in 1 or 2 hits by the lvl 49 cult bosses) and just totally own a lvl 150 boss?!?!?!

Yeah......... I'll let ya know how that works out!b:chuckle

Mosz - Heavens Tear

the lvl ?/150 bosses GREATLY differ in their difficulty, they range from 300k hp to 25 million hp and none-5000 attack , get your golem 63, lvl 7 pet heal, and if you have high magic you should be able to do chientien, might need a -channel or more magic or toughen, or just use dodo

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/14703

http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/4362

which one looks harder to kill (chientien is 1-1 first boss)

Cat - Heavens Tear

Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »

the lvl ?/150 bosses GREATLY differ in their difficulty, they range from 300k hp to 25 million hp and none-5000 attack , get your golem 63, lvl 7 pet heal, and if you have high magic you should be able to do chientien, might need a -channel or more magic or toughen, or just use dodo

http://www.pwdatabase.com/pwi/mob/14703

http://www.pwdatabase.com/mob/4362

which one looks harder to kill (chientien is 1-1 first boss)

BUT.. this still applies to EVERY class.. The bosses just dont have those stats ONLY for venos... And thats the whole point. If you want to say a class is overpwered or needs to be nerfed then you need to prove they can do something EXTRAORDINARY that NO other class can.

All your doing is showing how easy it should be for other classes to solo him too..

Its obvious you have never played a veno. I could sit here and pick out inconsistencys in every post you have made showing your "knowledge" of venos. You really dont know much about the class besides what you have heard or tried to deduce on your own. Im not even going to reply to you anymore because its pointless having a conversation about a class in which you have NO personal experience yet you try to "tell" others how it is.

WE ARE the venos, WE KNOW how it is. As its been said, make a veno get it to lvl 80+ then I'll listen your opinions.

XCloudStrife - Heavens Tear

No one's even paying attention to me :-P

I kinda ended this a while ago.

The 'soloability' of any class depends not on the class, but on the player. Build the character right, and any class could solo anything it wanted. It's be hard as hell, but if the player isn't a complete fool, it's not impossible. I had my BM solo bosses ten levels above me without a problem. It's all a matter of how well the player plays the class.