Nerf The Veno
Comments
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Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »BUT.. this still applies to EVERY class.. The bosses just dont have those stats ONLY for venos... And thats the whole point. If you want to say a class is overpwered or needs to be nerfed then you need to prove they can do something EXTRAORDINARY that NO other class can.
a person as curious how they could beat a lvl 150 boss, all i did was explain that not all ? bosses are equal, did i say it was specific to a veno , no...
yet you dont refute that pets ignore opponent level for defense penalty?
thanks for adding NOTHING USEFUL to the discussion
soloing tt having a overwhelmingly mroe significant profit to cost margin and being able to do it many many lvls earleir is pretty extraordinary
heck i even some of my venos that arent in denial admit it doesn't seem fair...0 -
For those that think Venos are overpowered I have this to say and it definitely wins the thread.
working it Q_Q
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]0 -
If people claimed veno to be over power, they should go play one; we not wanted in high level fb, zhen and can only solo. We only have our trusted pet as companion.
If you think veno earned lots of money, consider spending 4 mil on skills per pet. Many veno has more than one pet. Go do the maths. We do not have lots of money, we save what we have for your companions.
If you think the phoenix and Herc are over power, wait till it burn a hole in your pocket. It cost 150-200 USD per pet. Shouldn't the pet be good ?
Player often complains about veno overpower just have trouble knowing and playing their class well. b:angry0 -
+1Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: »WE ARE the venos, WE KNOW how it is. As its been said, make a veno get it to lvl 80+ then I'll listen your opinions.
/End of thread[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^^ Made by Saitada ^^
Dieho: I win 15 on 1, I roll all of your guild to sz all by myself !
Lessie: Proof?
Dieho: I dont have any, but my word is more than enough.
Lessie: Well I won 33 on 1 the other day
b:cute0 -
I have a BM lvl 68 and at some point i was thinking "-Damn! venos can make a lot of coins! Im going to make one 2! oh yea! i can imagine all the mats i can easly have not to mention about selling baby pets for 300k!!!" And guess what? im even more poor! pet skils cost 300k to 900k to learn and 200k to upgrade that skill! And dont forget that venos have skils to learn and armor to upgrade; expensive gems to imbue... the pets are another way to spend more and more coins! And about the baby pets.... well i dont like to spend one day or more to be able to create a baby and then sell them for 300k!! Hell with that! if i work hard i can make one milion a day with my BM and save another milion in hp pots^^ Im starting to think Bm is an overpowered class
And another thing i have noticed playing as a veno. I can no longer take down 5 or 10 mobs at same time like a BM or a Barb! You just cant heal the pet or else the mobs will turn against you and you die in 5 seconds
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kevinflack wrote: »i can easly have not to mention about selling baby pets for 300k!!!"
Some of those pets cost 200k to make, nice profit for the "overpowered" class.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^^ Made by Saitada ^^
Dieho: I win 15 on 1, I roll all of your guild to sz all by myself !
Lessie: Proof?
Dieho: I dont have any, but my word is more than enough.
Lessie: Well I won 33 on 1 the other day
b:cute0 -
TOO LATE TO NERF THE VENO!
People already paid hundreds for their charr.
I dont think that nerffing the veno will help h their bussiness.0 -
kevinflack wrote: »And another thing i have noticed playing as a veno. I can no longer take down 5 or 10 mobs at same time like a BM or a Barb! You just cant heal the pet or else the mobs will turn against you and you die in 5 seconds
I can help with this at least. I used to have the same problem, but I found the solution on these very forums. You have to manually send the pet around so that it hits all of the mobs at least once. Then, you just heal the pet and let it take them out one by one, don't use any skills in case you do too much damage and draw their attention back to you.
This strategy works very very well with the Hercules Pet, not only is he able to survive where other pets would be ripped apart but his reflect skill means that the mobs actually start killing themselves before he gets around to finishing the job. b:laugh
See here, I made it just now when I was testing out my Herc in FB 19:
http://i37.tinypic.com/6iqxxl.jpgMua - 8x WF - Conqueror0 -
all classes are balanced, i'm a veno myself, but i would really like to
PK as good as an archer does
or have the dmg a wizard has
or have as much HP as a wb does
or heal myself like an ep
or have so many aoe skills like a wr
everyone dreams at what other classes can do, u just have to stick with one of them and always think:" i have something that other classes don't have yay!"
ignore the rest, u're good at something, but i'm sure u suck at sth else, there hasn't been found the perfect class yet, and that means balance b:victoryIGN: JusT_CooL
Server: Lost City
Guild: ex-Conqueror
__________________________
Follow the example of good GMing
[SIGPIC]http://photos1.hi5.com/0044/475/618/k97TDv475618-02.jpg[/SIGPIC]0 -
Kill stealing is symptomatic of ranged ability. The Veno is a more in depth characted and harder to maintain so should come with benefits, but they are not unbalanced benefits0
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Just_cool - Lost City wrote: »all classes are balanced, i'm a veno myself, but i would really like to
PK as good as an archer does
or have the dmg a wizard has
or have as much HP as a wb does
or heal myself like an ep
or have so many aoe skills like a wr
b:victory
1. bleed you can soem cases
2. in TT your pet has more
3.well msot wb are tank build high vit, but yah still cant get near thier hp, although fox form u got huge def bonus and you got bramble normally
4. heal yourlself? you can already heal your pet for a next to nothing mana cost
5. true
b:victory
now can someone go back to adressing the main issues of imbalance, TT, pet ignore lvl/ pet heal cost, bleed0 -
Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »1. bleed you can soem cases
2. in TT your pet has more
3.well msot wb are tank build high vit, but yah still cant get near thier hp, although fox form u got huge def bonus and you got bramble normally
4. heal yourlself? you can already heal your pet for a next to nothing mana cost
5. true
b:victory
now can someone go back to adressing the main issues of imbalance, TT, pet ignore lvl/ pet heal cost, bleed
TT = can be done by all classes, some earlier some after.
Pet Ignore level = That's up to the devs in china, go b:cry to them see if they do anything
Pet Heal cost = what ?
Bleed = Bugged skill, not our fault.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^^ Made by Saitada ^^
Dieho: I win 15 on 1, I roll all of your guild to sz all by myself !
Lessie: Proof?
Dieho: I dont have any, but my word is more than enough.
Lessie: Well I won 33 on 1 the other day
b:cute0 -
Lessie - Lost City wrote: »TT = can be done by all classes, some earlier some after.
Pet Ignore level = That's up to the devs in china, go b:cry to them see if they do anything
Pet Heal cost = what ?
Bleed = Bugged skill, not our fault.
1. yes 10 levels earlier then others and with using 2 potions vs half a heiro , seriously having a profit to cost margin of 99% to -100% to maybe 50% is that even comparable? not to mention veno will do it faster
2. exactly the problem there are bad issues liek that that create imbalance
3. ? you said u want to heal yourself like a ep well you can heal your pet and the mana cost is soooo SOO low not fair for a cleric really when compared
4. bugged skill yes, there are unbalancing bugs that venos get, thats my point...
so to reiterate dont need to remove veno class just fix its bugs/imbalances0 -
Guys, it's obvious that Mosz is never going to give up here.
He's never made a Veno, so can't fathom the true difficulties.
He's only complaining because he can't play his own class right.
Just let it go. Let Mosz go on whining and crying alone and go back to enjoying the game. Let the devs worry about dev issues. Remember, nothing is perfect. NOTHING!0 -
look i ddint start the topic, i just pointed out a couple imbalances in veno that no one has been able to refute to my satisfaction? idk theyre all cases backed by all the venos i know
i cant play my own class right? my archer aint that bad =X, working on farmin and getting the stuff i need but im fairly satisfied with it...
whining and crying , yet again the defense of those that cant make a sound arguement
nothing is perfect, very true, but if issues arent addressed will they ever get resolved? i love how im getting the blame when i presented mostly facts and it was the op making more outlandish claims0 -
Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »1. yes 10 levels earlier then others and with using 2 potions vs half a heiro , seriously having a profit to cost margin of 99% to -100% to maybe 50% is that even comparable? not to mention veno will do it faster
2. exactly the problem there are bad issues liek that that create imbalance
3. ? you said u want to heal yourself like a ep well you can heal your pet and the mana cost is soooo SOO low not fair for a cleric really when compared
4. bugged skill yes, there are unbalancing bugs that venos get, thats my point...
so to reiterate dont need to remove veno class just fix its bugs/imbalances
I have already said it once but I.....will....say.... it... slow.... this.... time....so...you....understand......
Its not a 10 lvl difference. Venos can start TT around lvl 63. But its very slow going and costs alot more than 2 pots. Pets at this lvl usually die often on the bosses and when they die, the veno most definately dies. Runs between the lvls of 63-and 68 are very hard, very unpredictable, and often very unsuccessful. Around lvl 68 they start to get a LITTLE easier. Clerics who invest in earth def, equipment can easily start to solo at lvl 70. That pretty much leaves a 2 lvl difference from when Venos can solo it without major problems and when clerics can solo it without major problems..
Half a charm???? once again where the hell do you get that from?? Cause whoever it is SUCKS at playing. A lvl 75 cleric in my guild SOLOD BOTH bosses in TT 1-1 and used only 50k TOTAL on BOTH his charms and NO POTS. He doesnt have great gear or anything. 25k per charm? and thats half a charm..... IM not even good at math and I can tell yours is way off.
TT is all about luck, your profit to margin of cost BS doesnt work either. As a veno I can on 5 solo runs, use 5 subs, and have NO drops.. I still used pots and charms.. At an average cost of 80k a sub and we will say 50k in pot/charm use, thats 450k those 5 runs cost me with NO profit.
A cleric can go in and do 5 solo runs and lets say he gets 1 drop every run. And we will even say he spent double what I did in charm/pot costs... so 100k.. He now spent 500k, selling edges/drums at 200k, he just made himself 500k profit!!
On solo runs there are no guarentee on drops, and depending on your luck its all up on the air on "who" makes how much profit.
As far as a veno doing it faster once again shows your lack of knowledge to the veno class. We still have to lure the mobs one by one. We have to let our pet pretty much do most of the damage so we dont draw aggro. The bosses themselves we have to spam heal on, so the pet is doing ALL the damage. On average it takes a lvl 68-75 veno 5-6minutes JUST to kill Chin ONLY. Trust the pets that can tank chin DONT do that much damage..
On the other hand a cleric can go in and cast spells while tossing a few ironhearts on themselves. Im pretty sure the cleric can take down Chin faster.
Finally there are not unbalancing "bugs" a veno gets. The veno gets nothing. Supposedly the bleed spell isnt working properly in PVP. On top of all that venos dont get that skill. SOME pets do but not all of them but the veno itself doesnt get it. SO on this you DONT need to nerf the Veno you need to fix the few pets who may have it. None of the main pets I use have that skill.
The bug itself isnt even a major issue. Its not like a pet can cast it and suddenly its doing 10k in damage to a boss or player.. They cant spam cast it either. Thats NOT how it works.
I have never even seen that spell do any damage I was even impressed with, so Im not even sure how its considered bugged. I know most bosses I have used my pets who had it, it did like 42-100 of damage. Thats laughable against a boss that has 1m + HP. The effect of the skill as it now is NOT game altering or All powerful.. If you had a veno who had a pet with the skill you would once again know this..
Now once again I am done with you. Make a veno, lvl it, then open your mouth.[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Jesus fricking christ on a pogo stick. Your a mass of fricking idiots I swear!"
-Saitada
Didn't anyone tell you that you wanted to sleep with me?!?! I thought you knew....0 -
As much as I dislike getting involved in your arguments, I have to ask why do imbalances have to be "refuted to your satisfaction"?Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »look i ddint start the topic, i just pointed out a couple imbalances in veno that no one has been able to refute to my satisfaction? idk theyre all cases backed by all the venos i know
i cant play my own class right? my archer aint that bad =X, working on farmin and getting the stuff i need but im fairly satisfied with it...
whining and crying , yet again the defense of those that cant make a sound arguement
nothing is perfect, very true, but if issues arent addressed will they ever get resolved? i love how im getting the blame when i presented mostly facts and it was the op making more outlandish claims
The issues are being addressed, you've addressed them all multiple times. Have they been resolved? No. Will they ever be resolved? Probably not, nope! So the final and most important question is: Can you let this go and deal with the game as it is?Mua - 8x WF - Conqueror0 -
Cat - Heavens Tear wrote: ». SO on this you DONT need to nerf the Veno you need to fix the few pets who may have it. None of the main pets I use have that skill.
Now once again I am done with you. Make a veno, lvl it, then open your mouth.
again, thats what ive been saying, where did i say to NERF IT, no i said fix the bugs/issues
ok i dont know clerics that have done TT like that, just barb bm arch that have had a not so cheap time trying
also idk ive seen and gone with venos that didnt have a problem at 63-65, barely used pots
your profit margin argument somehow cleric has better droprate then veno? if this is true then im very sorry i wasnt aware of this, either way guess cleric has it much easier then i knew in TT
@Mua because most refutes were just "your wrong" while giving no facts, aka a pointless refuse0 -
Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »again, thats what ive been saying, where did i say to NERF IT, no i said fix the bugs/issues
Post title... "Nerf The Veno"
Poll title.. "Sould PWI Nerf the Veno"
*pokes avatar* wake up you and update.. I haven't been 79 for some 2 weeks now!0 -
Oh for pete's sake Mosz it's clear you're never going to recieve an answer to 'your satisfaction'!
I currently have every class and leveled each to 44 apart from archer on 42 and barbarian on 41 on Heavens Tear and a second Veno at level 68 on Sanctuary. This is becuase I like how different each class is. Each class has it's strengths and weaknesses like in all good MMORPGs. It's about learning to play each class to it's strengths and embrasing them. If every class was the same would there be much fun in it really?
I'd love my veno to have the hp and def that my barb has but that's never going to happen. Two or three hits and my squish body is done, even pets don't take as much damage as you seem to think!
I may have a magic/mage build on my veno but once again my wiz certainly has a far greater damage total.
Ok so I can heal my pet but sometimes you just can't heal quick enough then it's one dead veno and I can't heal myself through skills so one very squishy veno very much dead in two or three hits! Without the pet most venos wouldn't be able to get anywhere as the pet is it's speciality.
The pet is what makes the Veno unique. As is what the Barbs sheer tanking ability and the Clerics superb healing and buff skills and so on.
I am at a loss as to what to say to make you happy you really aren't ever going to get in your opinion a 'satisfactory answer'.
On a final note please go create a veno and actually play it to a resonable level to see if you can do the things you are claiming. Until then I personlly won't listen to you whinging and moaning about a class you haven't enough experience in and claims you have no personal experience in as you have no veno.
Once you've accomplished all you say is so easy please let us know until then I advise everyone to leave Mosz to his trolling. Afterall lets not spoil the kids fun? b:chuckle0 -
Ty for your tip Mua (on how to deal with multiple mobs). About soloing HH. Once again im going to bring back my Bm lol. At lvl 65 i tried to solo HH 1-1 with one bronze charm. I left the first boss with only 15% of his HP. Imagine what i could do with one gold charm and a few cakes from the apoc!!!! Yes!!! lol i almost kiled chien with my lvl 65 bm at that time^^ And i have to agree with some oppinions from here that the player behind the chr makes the difference. (note that Bm are not pure tanks like barbs or tank pets)0
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kevinflack wrote: »And i have to agree with some oppinions from here that the player behind the chr makes the difference.
I agree with this to I messed up my first veno on Heavens Tear and am just starting to sort her out! Just to Mosz every Veno is an overpowered monster it seems b:laugh0 -
Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »ok i dont know clerics that have done TT like that, just barb bm arch that have had a not so cheap time trying
also idk ive seen and gone with venos that didnt have a problem at 63-65, barely used pots
your profit margin argument somehow cleric has better droprate then veno? if this is true then im very sorry i wasnt aware of this, either way guess cleric has it much easier then i knew in TT
There exists Clerics using the Full Attack build, as layed out in a guide in the Cleric class area.
Using that build a Cleric will out perform a veno of the same level in all areas inside TT. The difference is that the Cleric does not have a pet helping out.
The exampled profit margin was to show the luck aspect of making money of any worth on those runs, the veno got no drops, but the cleric got lucky and did get drops. So the Cleric made a profit where you said the veno would. The same applies to any other class.
Now I would like to point out your comment that you have done TT with venos level 63-65: Since you were in a squad of course the veno did not have to use as many potions. The veno had support from more then just their pet.0 -
most the time they did the runs alone
i did come along to watch sometimes as i didn't believe long age that their pets could tank
then a few times i just came to dd
i think i realize they use fewer pots when someone comes along >.>
haven't seen too many attack cleric builds personally at least not ones that level
interesting that they can do so well , i didnt know, although i can understand why0 -
XCloudStrife - Heavens Tear wrote: »Guys, it's obvious that Mosz is never going to give up here.
He's never made a Veno, so can't fathom the true difficulties.
He's only complaining because he can't play his own class right.
Just let it go. Let Mosz go on whining and crying alone and go back to enjoying the game. Let the devs worry about dev issues. Remember, nothing is perfect. NOTHING!
I don't think Mosz is whining or crying, and he's probably very capable playing his own class, he's just presenting the other side of the debate since the OP has appearently chickened out.b:chuckle
Though I do think his arguments have all been pretty much shot down already and he refuses to admit defeat. ^^0 -
Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »1. bleed you can soem cases
2. in TT your pet has more
3.well msot wb are tank build high vit, but yah still cant get near thier hp, although fox form u got huge def bonus and you got bramble normally
4. heal yourlself? you can already heal your pet for a next to nothing mana cost
5. true
b:victory
now can someone go back to adressing the main issues of imbalance, TT, pet ignore lvl/ pet heal cost, bleed
All classes are balance as I per see but I will try to answer your queries. Each has there one benefits and short coming with I have no problem with. I just have to learn to fight them smart (although most time I run away b:victory)
In reply to:
1. bleed you can soem cases -
There is medicine to cure nagative effect, no?
2. in TT your pet has more
Veno can solo in TT but need lots of time and decent healing and a good pet for only limited bosses. TT chapter 1 gave only 2 bosses compare to 4 in group mode, TT chapter 2 gave 3 bosses compare to 5 in group mode. Further more, loot rate is like 2-5% on solo you gets 10% profit if you are lucky. what good does it have to have only half of the mats to make TT stuff?
3.well msot wb are tank build high vit, but yah still cant get near thier hp, although fox form u got huge def bonus and you got bramble normally
If you look at the stats chart of each class, the damage table for veno, the damage ration on veno skills to the rest of the class?
I dont have the infos infront of me but veno stats glowth is flat, her Vit glowth table only slightly higher that EP but less than the rest, even archer has better HP table than veno if I recall correctly.
You have EP that can heal themself and damage table of a mage (damage add on) with the capability of sleep and frost an opponent, you have archer that can criti 20-25% of the time with higher HP and a shield that can block melee damage and you have BM that can chain stunt, a WB that is dam hard to fight with and a mage that has earth shield, a skill that seal you skill for limited time couple with cannon like damage.
The physical defend bonus can only apply to heavy armor wf with trade off on magical defend and can one shooted by a mage/EP, they are only good against tank class.
4. Heal yourlself? you can already heal your pet for a next to nothing mana cost
I have yet to see a veno keep healing her pet but not using her skill to assist the pet? beside, you need decent healing for pet else you pet won't stand up against multiple mobs. That0 -
In related to my post above. let me say this:
There is no better class but better player0 -
Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »pets ignore the defense penalty based on level, thats why they high ?/lvl 150 monsters for so much this becomes very important in TT as the bosses are all ?/150 causing a huge defense penalty(i believe somewhere avout 60-75% as they are compareable to the new lvl 7x bosses added with the expansion that have similar resists/defenses)
Do you know TT is a dynamic dungeon that base upon player level/mode?
If you chose single at L60 (TT1-1 for example), boss with ? will be comparable to player level even a WB with a healer with decent healing can dual with it.
Veno is like tank +healer, mind you, veno need decent healing just like EP else it wont cut in.
I have to bring a healer inorder to complete the run at reasonable time. Not mentioning those veno that spec differently (less mag)0 -
Mosz - Heavens Tear wrote: »so your saying because a veno can run a TT for practically free(and at a lower level) is in no way easier or more profitable then any class that has to use at least half a heiro? (not to mention pretty sure it takes longer for other classes to run it because of pet pet defense/lvl base thing being ignored
yah clerics have a huge advantage on wood mobs, they can aoe grind them, probably wasnt anticipated by developers, havent seen this make much of an impact though, although its possible ive missed it
Try to run TT 1-1 for 5 time and you get only skeleton, lots of it tho for 1K each but you have to pay USUB to get in single mode. Does that sound profitable to you? Not mentioning you have to pay EP for buffs just to solo them TT well (but I have an uber EP with me all the time b:victory).0 -
@daji but veno does it solo, cleric at a higher lvl can , others cant without wasting a ton on pots, you always get enough mirage to cover cost and sometimes drops too depending on luck
@daji earlier
yah tehrs TT 1-1 1-2 1-3 2-1 ect ect im aware....
"Veno is like tank +healer, mind you, veno need decent healing just like EP else it wont cut in. "
umm..thats my points 1 class being able to do what in other cases takes at least 2 classes/players
@daji earlier #1, bee bleed bug, not fair developers suck.
@swift thanks.0
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