Reviving The Game

OFate - Heavens Tear

OPKossy wrote: »

The thread's issue isn't hypering or frost in and of itself.

It's the fact that, when combined, you can basically skip all the early game content with ease making the low level zones completely empty and alienating most new players off the bat.

What's being asked for is a small step in the right direction: namely restricting Frost to only those above level 75 (since that's when you first get quests that involve the place) much like how several other instances have their own form of limits to them.

This way, those who are below 75 will end up using the content provided for them and make at least the place seem a bit less deserted for potential new players. However, once you hit 75, you'll still be free to hyper to your heart's content.

And since getting to 75 is not difficult or time-consuming by any means to those who really want to rush through it, it really wouldn't hurt anyone except those who want to level an alt purely through buying heads and the people who sell to that type.


Granted, there have been other good suggestions in here and this would not solve all the problems we currently have in that area. However it is what the focus of this thread was and would be a nice step towards trying to repair one of the problems we have.

I mentioned I started PWI when it came out and I played another version for 3 years prior. I do see that PWI had migrated towards becoming an instanced game where everyone milled around instances and no one was ever on the actual map, unless they were pking.

This was the one thing that bothered me also.

I left for about a year or two and what I see is actually a very big difference and a positive one. I like the questing rewards from the NPC and I like the one that gives me green charms.

I notice that players are still very friendly and willing to assist.

I really only came back to try it out - because I missed it that much. But because of the changes, I decided to stay and abandoned the game I was playing.

PWI has such a rich community and I still am unable to find that anywhere. There is no other game I've played and gotten the same rush from the instances we go into as a squad...

I actually was fond of the old (very old) Frost Walk - the one that used the Frost gear.

I left around the time the purple names came out - and I personally like how PWI has evolved... hoping it continues.

Wickedbrew - Raging Tide

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I guess the new player hadn't checked out Jolly Jones. My mystic is sitting on 45 mil because running those daily in the 70s levels is extremely profitable, and good in the earlier levels also. Also.... how would allowing powerlevelling have helped out this new player? He'd definitely have no money for pots/anything if he skipped all of the beginning content.

The quests are VERY different now. I was so ticked off about the worthless DQ thing that I made a character just to see how it would go, fully expecting to prove that it made a huge difference without them. I was wrong. The quests have been vastly upgraded and through them I had enough money for skills and gear. Then when I started the Jolly Jones quests (which I didn't even start when I reached the right level; I wish I had!) the money was pouring in. And the experience from quests alone was insane. I specifically banked every exp item I received and went only on quests, and even fed my genie experience once or twice because quests were so backlogged as I levelled too fast. I didn't need to do BHs until the 60s. And of course nowadays they give out Dreamchaser packs like candy so your weapons and armor are covered until 60+, and free charms until level 60 (?) so you can save all your pots for later on, and pile up all the free charms from stash and quests too for later levels. The only difficult and boring part of the game now is 80+, where they haven't revamped the quests to be worth the time so there is nothing to do but BH.

I think the biggest problem is actually communication. I'm not sure if JJ pops up in available quests, but I know things like Divine Order quests and Lucid doesn't, and a lot of people never learn about these things (and divine orders are great for free pots). A new player coming in might not know about Jolly Jones rewards, or other beneficial quests, not to mention they wouldn't know about Dreamchaser packs unless they used forums/FB. I think there is a popup about the free charms but nothing else.

I might have to make a second new char, use all the free exp items and do every new quest available (like seasonal ones I skipped) and BH daily, and see how fast levelling is that way. It must be insane considering how fast I levelled without that.

It's nice to see someone that is intelligent and actually checks out what is available for lower levels without hyper leveling, and complaining they have no money to upgrade. The genies are great for keeping your xp in check so you don't level too fast (which is so easy to do without FC), and allowing you to maintain a good income stream from JJ quests setting your alt character up for being ready for upper mid levels and beyond.

krisnda

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Despite your subjective beliefs about who it hurts, limiting people's choices, especially when this is how the vast majority of the populace have leveled since 2010, does in fact hurt them. Those who don't want to skip content don't have to. Yet the overwhelming majority of the population does anyways, which they did with zhen parties, which they did with oracles, and then with FF hyper powerleveling, which shows exactly what they want, which is why you're complaining about it, and want to change it.

The reverse can be said with your subjective beliefs on who it hurts.

And when 90% of the topic is complaining about powerlevels, which are done in FF, and hypers, which are mainly used in FF, and low levels being in FF, which is about FF.. well, guess what, this is mainly about FF. The suggestion that it isn't is almost as comical as it not being about nostalgia. You guys are really bad at marketing this as something else when people can plainly see what it is.

I don't think people are refuting this, so idk where you got that idea (I haven't read this thread as often as some, so who knows). FF and hypers have, and continue to ruin the low level experience due to powerleveling. End-game isn't all its cracked up to be.

"Telling new players that their only option is to get to end game and then the fun starts is a downright lie. Most of us at 100+ can agree that end game is:

1) Doing BHs
2) Doing WS or some other instance to farm
3) Doing Morai [ more faming ]
4) Doing BQs [ if you're in a base ]
5) Strangling ourselves with boredom/rinse and repeat on an alt.
6) PK "


This is why people haven't been playing as much as they used to. Why is it so hard to understand?

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Krisnda wrote: »

"Telling new players that their only option is to get to end game and then the fun starts is a downright lie. Most of us at 100+ can agree that end game is:

1) Doing BHs
2) Doing WS or some other instance to farm
3) Doing Morai [ more faming ]
4) Doing BQs [ if you're in a base ]
5) Strangling ourselves with boredom/rinse and repeat on an alt.
6) PK "


This is why people haven't been playing as much as they used to. Why is it so hard to understand?

Hah.

Players didn't need to be told getting to end game is where the fun starts, they figured it out on their own which is why they powerleveled. Most people also do BH, they found out that 100+ BH's give far better rewards. I'm confused where you derive this attitude that players are all just misinformed and need to be told how to experience the game.

If people (who primarily powerleveled) wanted to experience the low level content we did back in 2008/2009 they'd make an alt and do it. You keep making this image like people are handcuffed and someone else is making choices vicariously through them when in fact they are making choices all on their own.

You are correct about the boredom of getting to endgame and doing the same stuff, which is why PW needs to cater to the player base and make more endgame content, which they have been doing, instead of trying to control players like you're doing to revive the good ol' days, which really should be this topic name instead.

I suspect (for what looks like pretty obvious reasons given the arguments I'm reading) that most of the people complaining about "reviving" the game have never seen the cycles an MMO goes through, or at least not paid attention to them, especially one ran for profit. Low level content is mainly experienced near the start of a game's development (this version of PW started in 2008), from which it almost exclusively becomes endgame content that is desired, which is part of the signalling of a downward trend in population. The population isn't in decline because people hyper powerlevel, the population is in decline because there are other interesting games that are taking the population away. A game originally developed sometime mid last decade can only hold a population for so long. Perfect World has decided for nearly 4 years now to cater to powerlevelers, asking for it to be undone is unreasonable and effectively shows how ridiculously pie-in-the-sky the notion is that you can try to force people to quest and magically grow a population / retain old players, who will still reach endgame quickly, and will still have the same problems endgame you describe.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Krisnda wrote: »

"Telling new players that their only option is to get to end game and then the fun starts is a downright lie. Most of us at 100+ can agree that end game is:

1) Doing BHs
2) Doing WS or some other instance to farm
3) Doing Morai [ more faming ]
4) Doing BQs [ if you're in a base ]
5) Strangling ourselves with boredom/rinse and repeat on an alt.
6) PK "


This is why people haven't been playing as much as they used to. Why is it so hard to understand?

what has FC to do with the above? what do you really want to have an exciting game at endgame? WoW style raids to feel you're part of the "community"? go play WoW then. If you don't know then go out there try some other games to endgame level and then come back with constructive criticism. So far all I see in this topic (and some others) it's a few frustrated people who picked up their pitchforks and are up in arms to burn the witch.
Even the poll is so badly biased it gives only the options the OP likes.
But hey, lets go burn the witch, no matter what cost.
Powerlevelers don't care if they will have to level via frost or oracles. You people can't seem to wrap your head around that idea at all.

Another thing: you're not improving anything by limiting options. It's the same in politics , technology or any other field: limiting options never worked and always led to worst case scenarios.
For anything to get better you need to offer people a better option than frost. Something that would be marginally more profitable experience wise and lest costly than buying heads. Then you'll have the community involved in that aspect of the game.

you're a mod, you should think more and post less. I really miss eatwithspoons about now....

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear

Krisnda wrote: »

"Telling new players that their only option is to get to end game and then the fun starts is a downright lie. Most of us at 100+ can agree that end game is:

1) Doing BHs
2) Doing WS or some other instance to farm
3) Doing Morai [ more faming ]
4) Doing BQs [ if you're in a base ]
5) Strangling ourselves with boredom/rinse and repeat on an alt.
6) PK "


This is why people haven't been playing as much as they used to. Why is it so hard to understand?

I think hes simply butthurt from selling frost heads and making money off of ppl like he was a leech or something or hes just too stupid to get the message by making claims and statements that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Janus, get off the forums your claims is what is making you look stupid since all you like to say is "nostalgia". Guess that's still your favorite word of the century when its no where farther from the truth and the truth is what Malei said earlier when krisnda confirmed it just moments ago. I think its time you left pw and went somewhere else that appeals to your sense of "end game enjoyment".

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I think hes simply butthurt from selling frost heads and making money off of ppl like he was a leech or something or hes just too stupid to get the message by making claims and statements that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Janus, get off the forums your claims is what is making you look stupid since all you like to say is "nostalgia". Guess that's still your favorite word of the century when its no where farther from the truth and the truth is what Malei said earlier when krisnda confirmed it just moments ago. I think its time you left pw and went somewhere else that appeals to your sense of "end game enjoyment".

How about a xanax? Or maybe some anger management? If you get this mad over posts you should probably consider doing something else.

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what has FC to do with the above? what do you really want to have an exciting game at endgame? WoW style raids to feel you're part of the "community"? go play WoW then. If you don't know then go out there try some other games to endgame level and then come back with constructive criticism. So far all I see in this topic (and some others) it's a few frustrated people who picked up their pitchforks and are up in arms to burn the witch.
Even the poll is so badly biased it gives only the options the OP likes.
But hey, lets go burn the witch, no matter what cost.
Powerlevelers don't care if they will have to level via frost or oracles. You people can't seem to wrap your head around that idea at all.

Another thing: you're not improving anything by limiting options. It's the same in politics , technology or any other field: limiting options never worked and always led to worst case scenarios.
For anything to get better you need to offer people a better option than frost. Something that would be marginally more profitable experience wise and lest costly than buying heads. Then you'll have the community involved in that aspect of the game.

you're a mod, you should think more and post less. I really miss eatwithspoons about now....

The poll that was conducted to see what should be done bout powerlvling in frost, and the playerbase have spoken to want it lvl limited to 75+. we're not taking your fun away, but we're forcing the new players to not just do one measly instance just so they can reach endgame only to be bored any further. the fun is in the lower to mid lvls not at endgame where all your doing is the 6 things that Malei listed above. I even keep saying this on and off, endgame is ENDgame, not the beginning. Seems like you and janus have got their sides swapped when the end is not the beginning. Plus do you think that a train that has come to a Deadend is going to keep going right through it only cause the conductor thinks that theres more track behind it? Whats going to profit pw the most is to put a lvl cap on frost so that we can start to see new players coming in and staying and not leaving cause its not fun for em anymore.

Recently i came across a lone lvl 60 bm who had asked in world chat to help em with khewy. I mentioned to em that they could get help in a faction but what they told me should be an alarm for veterans and those that are leaders of factions. They tried 1 faction and faction chat was so dead that they left it cause they werent getting the help that was needed. If we put a lvl cap on frost, we might just see more ppl out in the low lvl areas helping those that dont want to speed lvl even though alot of players do it.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what has FC to do with the above? what do you really want to have an exciting game at endgame? WoW style raids to feel you're part of the "community"? go play WoW then. If you don't know then go out there try some other games to endgame level and then come back with constructive criticism. So far all I see in this topic (and some others) it's a few frustrated people who picked up their pitchforks and are up in arms to burn the witch.
Even the poll is so badly biased it gives only the options the OP likes.
But hey, lets go burn the witch, no matter what cost.
Powerlevelers don't care if they will have to level via frost or oracles. You people can't seem to wrap your head around that idea at all.

You're missing the point entirely.
FC has everything to do with it because leveling characters below 75 in FC is partially what's killing the population in the low level areas.
I've said it several times before, I will say it again. This is but a small first step in a series of steps to revitalize the game.
Also, the poll is "biased" because it's following the heels of another poll. If you had bothered to actually read my OP, you might have a better clue.

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Another thing: you're not improving anything by limiting options. It's the same in politics , technology or any other field: limiting options never worked and always led to worst case scenarios.
For anything to get better you need to offer people a better option than frost. Something that would be marginally more profitable experience wise and lest costly than buying heads. Then you'll have the community involved in that aspect of the game.

you're a mod, you should think more and post less. I really miss eatwithspoons about now....

So your standpoint is to offer a better power-leveling option than frost, that will give even more rewards with less effort?
Yeah, that's how to improve something, make it so easy a caveman could do it. Too bad it completely defeats the purpose of an MMORPG.

As for Mods, they're just users like you and me. They have their opinions and can voice them freely. They are not a "voice of the company" or any such thing. The simply volunteer their time to help moderate the forum and to help ensure that forum rules are followed.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Even the poll is so badly biased it gives only the options the OP likes.

The poll was already done here and this thread was a continuation of the discussion based on that poll's results. This thread itself is not "should we restrict FCC or not?" hence the lack of "no" option.

I think it shouldn't have been left out though, the "no" option that is, but at least that's the reason Sylen left it out.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

The poll that was conducted to see what should be done bout powerlvling in frost, and the playerbase have spoken to want it lvl limited to 75+. we're not taking your fun away, but we're forcing the new players to not just do one measly instance just so they can reach endgame only to be bored any further. the fun is in the lower to mid lvls not at endgame where all your doing is the 6 things that Malei listed above. I even keep saying this on and off, endgame is ENDgame, not the beginning. Seems like you and janus have got their sides swapped when the end is not the beginning. Plus do you think that a train that has come to a Deadend is going to keep going right through it only cause the conductor thinks that theres more track behind it? Whats going to profit pw the most is to put a lvl cap on frost so that we can start to see new players coming in and staying and not leaving cause its not fun for em anymore.

Recently i came across a lone lvl 60 bm who had asked in world chat to help em with khewy. I mentioned to em that they could get help in a faction but what they told me should be an alarm for veterans and those that are leaders of factions. They tried 1 faction and faction chat was so dead that they left it cause they werent getting the help that was needed. If we put a lvl cap on frost, we might just see more ppl out in the low lvl areas helping those that dont want to speed lvl even though alot of players do it.

I was in roughly 6 factions in 2009 and all of them had the same complaints for people leaving. Why you think this is a novelty for end of 2013 is beyond me.

I do find the argument of "people aren't helping others, it's hyper FF powerlevel fault!" to be highly misguided (something said by a new person or one who doesn't pay attention) yet unsurprising given your history of posts. b:cute

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

How about a xanax? Or maybe some anger management? If you get this mad over posts you should probably consider doing something else.

Ever heard of legitimate reasons to be uptight or does that go into your AM dial of stupidity? Sounds like someone has been playing pw for far too long and they need to get out in the real world for a change stead of keeping themselves glued to a computer screen with pixelated toons.

Sounds like your really fawned of using the word "nostalgia" and giving up on a game that still has potential but your too closed minded to even open your mind up to that possibility. PW still has a chance of getting itself turned around toward the right direction instead of having itself being kept on a slow steady decline like a train was bout to fall off a cliff. As far as telling players how to lvl and that pw should just cater to the endgame content, its nothing more than a plain old simple excuse to keep this game going towards its doom.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Vanflyheight - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Ever heard of legitimate reasons to be uptight or does that go into your AM dial of stupidity? Sounds like someone has been playing pw for far too long and they need to get out in the real world for a change stead of keeping themselves glued to a computer screen with pixelated toons.

Sounds like your really fawned of using the word "nostalgia" and giving up on a game that still has potential but your too closed minded to even open your mind up to that possibility. PW still has a chance of getting itself turned around toward the right direction instead of having itself being kept on a slow steady decline like a train was bout to fall off a cliff. As far as telling players how to lvl and that pw should just cater to the endgame content, its nothing more than a plain old simple excuse to keep this game going towards its doom.

Comparison of real world to pixel one.. sounds legit.

I also play this game, how does one play yet give up on it at the same time? Dat logic.

When the game wasn't going the way I wanted and wasn't fun, I left for 2 years. I came back when I thought it was. What a tough concept.

The logic espoused that after 3-4 years of hyper powerlevel suddenly people need to play a certain way and quest, even though they'll still hit endgame quickly, and still run into the same endgame problems, is sheer stupidity and doesn't address whatsoever why people actually leave this game. However, given you think that after these years of decline you can magically make people want to play such an outdated game being run by a for profit company effectively shows where your head is at.. I would suggest pulling it out of there before trying to pretend you're level headed and someone else is not.

I'm still lol'ing at you blaming people hyper plvl FFing for factions not being helpful. I guess when you're grasping at straws there's no such thing as a straw too long, eh?

krisnda

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

what has FC to do with the above?

Already have been explained.

what do you really want to have an exciting game at endgame? another game'sstyle raids to feel you're part of the "community"? go play another gamethen.

If you know I'm a mod, it would be wise not to break the rules in my face.

If you don't know then go out there try some other games to endgame level and then come back with constructive criticism. So far all I see in this topic (and some others) it's a few frustrated people who picked up their pitchforks and are up in arms to burn the witch.
Even the poll is so badly biased it gives only the options the OP likes.

That poll is actually based on a thread in which I was the OP of. Also you should look up the definition of Constructive Criticism, because telling me to go play other games and come back when I have a grasp on the concept of "powerleveling is in every MMO and you need to learn how to deal with it" isn't constructive at all.

But hey, lets go burn the witch, no matter what cost.
Powerlevelers don't care if they will have to level via frost or oracles. You people can't seem to wrap your head around that idea at all.

So... if they can powerlevel anyway, what's the big deal in limiting FF? They'd powerlevel anyway right?

Another thing: you're not improving anything by limiting options. It's the same in politics , technology or any other field: limiting options never worked and always led to worst case scenarios.

Ok, I'll agree with this to a degree.

For anything to get better you need to offer people a better option than frost. Something that would be marginally more profitable experience wise and lest costly than buying heads. Then you'll have the community involved in that aspect of the game.

Ok, you have another point here, people wouldn't be complaining that endgame was so dead if there was more "dynamic content" dungeons that change everytime you enter one so that it is never the same experience, and squads have to be verried instead of cookie-cutter: sin, bm, sin, sin, barb squads.

you're a mod, you should think more and post less. I really miss eatwithspoons about now....

I'm not eatwithspoons, I'm not V4l, Frankie, nor the new CM we have here. If you don't even know what a moderator is then how can I listen to anything you're even saying if you don't even have a grasp of this sinple concept?

As for Mods, they're just users like you and me. They have their opinions and can voice them freely. They are not a "voice of the company" or any such thing. The simply volunteer their time to help moderate the forum and to help ensure that forum rules are followed.

Thank you Sylen

There's your responses.

And you 2, please keep this discussion civil.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Since when is debating with a mod against the rules?

So... if they can powerlevel anyway, what's the big deal in limiting FF? They'd powerlevel anyway right?

If they would anyways, then what's the point of limiting people's options? This pie in the sky logic that people magically would want to experience the entire map. They wouldn't. They'd still level quickly, they'd still reach endgame quickly, the problem that all games face with a dying population would still be there. Your magic fix isn't so magical, nor is it a fix. This is a very small niche of players attacking a style of play and wanting the developers to change it because they subjectively perceive it as this game's detriment.

Malei - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Comparison of real world to pixel one.. sounds legit.

I also play this game, how does one play yet give up on it at the same time? Dat logic.

When the game wasn't going the way I wanted and wasn't fun, I left for 2 years. I came back when I thought it was. What a tough concept.

The logic espoused that after 3-4 years of hyper powerlevel suddenly people need to play a certain way and quest, even though they'll still hit endgame quickly, and still run into the same endgame problems, is sheer stupidity and doesn't address whatsoever why people actually leave this game. However, given you think that after these years of decline you can magically make people want to play such an outdated game being run by a for profit company effectively shows where your head is at.. I would suggest pulling it out of there before trying to pretend you're level headed and someone else is not.

I'm still lol'ing at you blaming people hyper plvl FFing for factions not being helpful. I guess when you're grasping at straws there's no such thing as a straw too long, eh?

Where are you getting the idea that people who are voting pro-restriction believe this is the 'magical fix' to fixing the problem of the declining population, by the way? Because the thread I'm reading is clearly full of posts that say that this would have to be done in several steps, and not solely on limiting player ability to level 1-75 in Frost.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Where are you getting the idea that people who are voting pro-restriction believe this is the 'magical fix' to fixing the problem of the declining population, by the way? Because the thread I'm reading is clearly full of posts that say that this would have to be done in several steps, and not solely on limiting player ability to level 1-75 in Frost.

When "step one" is already misidentifying a problem and simply trying to control the way others play because that's who the target demographic is for a small group's perceived cause of decline in the game, then can forget about step two, three, four, six hundred, ten thousand, etc.

The "magic fix" quote comes from:

- This small group believes by tossing out hypers for under 75 and hyper FF powerlevels, people will suddenly decide they want to "enjoy" the game's content around the map via questing.

Because quests still give insane XP not too unlike powerleveling, this would hardly change anything at all, people would still reach "FF" level quickly, and ignore quests as they already do. Before hypers were out, and when FF was changed into an XP instance, people still ignored quests at higher levels. At lower levels they maximized their XP gain in order to reach that level. This is what players of MMORPGs do. The "magic" is the sheer ignorance of how things work and excessive "idealistic" views that run counter to that.

This would not populate the map, it would not suddenly bring players to the game, and hyper powerleveling people aren't the source of decline for this game. This idea comes from the nostalgia back in 2008/2009 when the game was more populated with low levels and fewer people were end game. People can sit there and say it's not but when you can read their post history and it shows them admitting they're nostalgic for it, and espouse these ideals, lying about it to market a different approach doesn't work.

Given virtually everything is wrong with the background of this notion, nevermind the impacts of this idea, it's terrible all around.

krisnda

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Since when is debating with a mod against the rules?

I meant the naming other games. Don't assume.

If they would anyways, then what's the point of limiting people's options? This pie in the sky logic that people magically would want to experience the entire map. They wouldn't. They'd still level quickly, they'd still reach endgame quickly, the problem that all games face with a dying population would still be there. Your magic fix isn't so magical, nor is it a fix. This is a very small niche of players attacking a style of play and wanting the developers to change it because they subjectively perceive it as this game's detriment.

5/char

Malei - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

When "step one" is already misidentifying a problem and simply trying to control the way others play because that's who the target demographic is for a small group's perceived cause of decline in the game, then can forget about step two, three, four, six hundred, ten thousand, etc.

I've seen several Non-restriction posts that identified several methods that could be used to revitalize the game with good ideas and intentions placed here. But you're being unrealistic if you believe that Frost is not a big factor in contributing to the lack of a lower-level community. Which this thread is about.

Its not "mis-identifying" a problem in that case, or even prioritizing it over other factors of the game that do need an over-haul, its locating an issue and addressing it and ways to overcome it. Simple as that. Not one pro-restriction post here states that this is the "Final Solution" or anything of the sort. Its offering methods to deal with something that is indeed an issue in this game.

Even your argument that this game is out-dated and, thus, doesn't need to be saved is not appropriate here, because no one is speaking about how out-dated the game is. Its a discussion on the effects of Frost in the lower-level community and how it impacts the new player's decision to go or stay. If you believe Frost doesn't affect the lower community, then the thread clearly isn't for you. If you believe that there are other methods to helping the lower community/population outside of restricting FCC - then go ahead and post. But "This game is old and dead anyway" contributes absolutely nothing.

Eoria - Harshlands

S> Powerleveling service in Eden. PM me for info.

No, really. If you restrict FC, people will just powerlevel in other dungeons. Ain't **** gonna change. Make lower level quests worth it to actually do and then you'd see people questing instead of just powerleveling to 100.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

I've seen several Non-restriction posts that identified several methods that could be used to revitalize the game with good ideas and intentions placed here. But you're being unrealistic if you believe that Frost is not a big factor in contributing to the lack of a lower-level community. Which this thread is about.

Its not "mis-identifying" a problem in that case, or even prioritizing it over other factors of the game that do need an over-haul, its locating an issue and addressing it and ways to overcome it. Simple as that. Not one pro-restriction post here states that this is the "Final Solution" or anything of the sort. Its offering methods to deal with something that is indeed an issue in this game.

Even your argument that this game is out-dated and, thus, doesn't need to be saved is not appropriate here, because no one is speaking about how out-dated the game is. Its a discussion on the effects of Frost in the lower-level community and how it impacts the new player's decision to go or stay. If you believe Frost doesn't affect the lower community, then the thread clearly isn't for you. If you believe that there are other methods to helping the lower community/population outside of restricting FCC - then go ahead and post. But "This game is old and dead anyway" contributes absolutely nothing.

There is no iteration that the game is outdated and thus not need to be "saved". The length of time this game has been around is why the game is declining, people have interest in other things, try and follow along instead of trying to paraphrase my argument into something else. MMORPGs don't last forever, they have a short lifespan. PWE caters to people who want to level faster, they always have. They push players to endgame, rewards are best endgame, endgame content is mostly targeted in updates, players want to reach endgame, therefore endgame is where people want to be. You and others in this thread who keep insisting that players will play differently have a latent issue coming to grips with this being the will of the community by their actions.

Belittling criticism, which has not been as simplified as "this game is old and dead anyways", aptly shows how much your head is up in this idealistic cloud where you can't handle disagreement with this ridiculous idea. MMORPGs have a shelf life, they cannot be "saved" in the way you are describing. These ideas are not solutions, they're merely restrictions because the targeted demographic plays in a way a small group of players have deemed "game killer du jour". Your identification of the problem is wrong, your solutions are outlandish. There is nothing good about these ideas.

Ursa - Dreamweaver

Malei - Sanctuary wrote: »

Where are you getting the idea that people who are voting pro-restriction believe this is the 'magical fix' to fixing the problem of the declining population, by the way? Because the thread I'm reading is clearly full of posts that say that this would have to be done in several steps, and not solely on limiting player ability to level 1-75 in Frost.

somehow there's a group of people around that got into the witch hunt mode when it comes to FC powerleveling.
I guess because they are just envious on the ones that solo/sale the bigroom? I don't know for sure. What I know for sure is that none of them came out with a replacement idea. They just want to torch it down, burn it up and go home jubilating on their successful cleanse of the game from evil.
They don't suggest options and/or other modifications to be done to the game. Nope. They just want FC gone and then we'll see. Short term thinking FTW.
They are so close minded in their endeavour that they don't accept any other suggestions/opinions. You're either with them or against them. Gestapo style much?
Even a simple suggestion of replacing the return from FC big room with something else that would give equivalent xp or a bit lower with a lower cost was met with rejection. They are so entrenched in the position they can't even conceive that maybe a modification of one of the current instances in the game could instantly make FC obsolete and force/help people in the same level range to work together.
Like I've said at the beginning of this thread somewhere, I have a strong feeling whoever supports this FC limitation does not understand the game, its economy and mechanics at all.

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

Ursa - Dreamweaver wrote: »

somehow there's a group of people around that got into the witch hunt mode when it comes to FC powerleveling.
I guess because they are just envious on the ones that solo/sale the bigroom? I don't know for sure. What I know for sure is that none of them came out with a replacement idea.
They just want to torch it down, burn it up and go home jubilating on their successful cleanse of the game from evil.

It has nothing to do with a "witch hunt" or "torching" the idea of leveling in Frost.
It is not an attempt to "cleanse the game from evil".
It is an attempt to expand the life of the game we care about and to improve the quality of the game community.

They don't suggest options and/or other modifications to be done to the game. Nope. They just want FC gone and then we'll see. Short term thinking FTW.

There's two reason for this.
1. Because this is just one small step. (How many times does this have to be said?)
2. Other modifications have already been done. You've not only missed the modifications, but missed half the posts in this thread.

They are so close minded in their endeavour that they don't accept any other suggestions/opinions. You're either with them or against them. Gestapo style much?

Again, if you actually bothered to read the first post and make a reasonable attempt to understand what I said there, you wouldn't be making stupid statements like that.

Even a simple suggestion of replacing the return from FC big room with something else that would give equivalent xp or a bit lower with a lower cost was met with rejection. They are so entrenched in the position they can't even conceive that maybe a modification of one of the current instances in the game could instantly make FC obsolete and force/help people in the same level range to work together.

There's no need to replace it. And there's already been a modification of current instances that provides a similar amount of exp and spirit to the game. (PV anyone?)
You just can't open your eyes beyond the fact that you might loose your precious FC for your characters below level 75, and obviously have no interest in actually playing the game.

Like I've said at the beginning of this thread somewhere, I have a strong feeling whoever supports this FC limitation does not understand the game, its economy and mechanics at all.

I understand the game, it's mechanics, and the requirements of the longevity of the game more than many of the readers here. Which is why I support this, and why I began this discussion. If you actually bothered to read the thread, I did lay out my qualifications several pages ago.

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear

SylenThunder - Sanctuary wrote: »

I understand the game, it's mechanics, and the requirements of the longevity of the game more than many of the readers here. Which is why I support this, and why I began this discussion. If you actually bothered to read the thread, I did lay out my qualifications several pages ago.

I've read this thread, and the previous one, and the others linked in the OP. The notion that hyper powerleveling decreases the longevity of the game is a horrifically flawed one, some players (by their own admission) miss doing low level BH's because it was fun back in 2009 and so use that rationale (of nostalgia for how the playerbase once was, when the vast majority of players were not endgame) as a basis for rebranding the "get rid of hyper FF powerleveling" campaign that has been going on since 2010 and running wild with that. Fortunately, some of us (especially myself, who has also worked in the game industry, for 10 years in both the development and publishing sides) know better, and someone has to speak for the silent preponderance of active players who are busy playing and not indefinitely complaining on the forums until they get the player base playing the way they want them to under this poorly understood guise of extending the game's lifespan.

Reaperarm - Harshlands

I'm all for restricting fc and hypers to level 75+ players. In all honesty though everyone in this thread should know better than to think pwe will even pay attention to this let alone relay it back to HQ in china. I hope they do but I highly doubt they will.

Malei - Sanctuary

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

There is no iteration that the game is outdated and thus not need to be "saved". The length of time this game has been around is why the game is declining, people have interest in other things, try and follow along instead of trying to paraphrase my argument into something else. MMORPGs don't last forever, they have a short lifespan. PWE caters to people who want to level faster, they always have. They push players to endgame, rewards are best endgame, endgame content is mostly targeted in updates, players want to reach endgame, therefore endgame is where people want to be. You and others in this thread who keep insisting that players will play differently have a latent issue coming to grips with this being the will of the community by their actions.

Belittling criticism, which has not been as simplified as "this game is old and dead anyways", aptly shows how much your head is up in this idealistic cloud where you can't handle disagreement with this ridiculous idea. MMORPGs have a shelf life, they cannot be "saved" in the way you are describing. These ideas are not solutions, they're merely restrictions because the targeted demographic plays in a way a small group of players have deemed "game killer du jour". Your identification of the problem is wrong, your solutions are outlandish. There is nothing good about these ideas.

You're taking my words as belittling, I don't have a problem with people being opposed to this idea at all. My head isn't in the 'idealistic' cloud - your push for shouting that "MMORPGs in General don't last forever" simply boils down to you believing that the decline of the population results in a game's longevity, and thus, there are no other factors contributing to why PWI isn't as popular as it used to be. Now accept that I disagree with that, and we can actually talk about methods to prevent this decline from growing irrepairable.

Wait, you don't think its able to be repaired. So why are you even posting in the first place?

If you don't have any ways to identify the topic of the thread and discuss it, which is, and I repeat: The Effects Of Frost On Lower Level and New Players, then you're done here. As well as I, who will be more than happy to discuss other solutions to aid in the game rather than waste time arguing about its worth.

opkossy

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

S> Powerleveling service in Eden. PM me for info.

No, really. If you restrict FC, people will just powerlevel in other dungeons. Ain't **** gonna change. Make lower level quests worth it to actually do and then you'd see people questing instead of just powerleveling to 100.

See:

Annalyse - Heavens Tear wrote: »

*snip*

Lower level content is, in fact, worth it.

But basically none of the higher level older players nowadays give it a chance because "lolFC to 100". Then when new players come and try to play they see empty maps with no people around and the inability to socialize... in a MMO. The few that don't quit from that and survive long enough to meet friends are then told "lolFC to 100". However the game gets stagnent at that point but... we have the hard headed people insisting that that's where the "fun" begins. All the fun of standing around archo bored as tears wanting something to do when lower levels have so much content given to them they can't keep up. Yet that content and he socializing that goes with it gets deserted and ignored in favor of people who are sticking fiercely to the "Game can't be saved so nothing helps" bandwagon and believe in nothing more than "lolFC to 100".

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

JanusZeal - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I've read this thread, and the previous one, and the others linked in the OP. The notion that hyper powerleveling decreases the longevity of the game is a horrifically flawed one, some players (by their own admission) miss doing low level BH's because it was fun back in 2009 and so use that rationale (of nostalgia for how the playerbase once was, when the vast majority of players were not endgame) as a basis for rebranding the "get rid of hyper FF powerleveling" campaign that has been going on since 2010 and running wild with that. Fortunately, some of us (especially myself, who has also worked in the game industry, for 10 years in both the development and publishing sides) know better, and someone has to speak for the silent preponderance of active players who are busy playing and not indefinitely complaining on the forums until they get the player base playing the way they want them to under this poorly understood guise of extending the game's lifespan.

I never stated that powerleveling decreases the longevity of the game. I have specifically stated that in order to attract new players, the low level content areas need to be more populated. This is the first of several steps to achieve that.

As for "indefinitely complaining on the forums until they get the player base playing the way they want them to" rather than playing the game, lets to a quick calculation here...

SweetieBot, analyze this thread!
b:chuckle

WannaBM - Archosaur

But basically none of the higher level older players nowadays give it a chance

What assumption. I too understand the nostalgia and it isnt long ago that i made a new toon with the intention to really play it.

I made it to level 12 before i was bored ****less with it and went back to TT farming on my main because yes that is more fun to me.

Nostalgia because yes it was so nice when it was the first time and everything was new. But it will never again be the first time and it will never again be new. History does not come back. Its like the things you did when you were a kid. Wasnt it amazing when you were 5-10 years old, climbing trees, exploring everything in a 200 yard radius around your house in minute detail, no worries about taking care of bills and making an income, just pure naive bliss. Same thing, it doesnt come back again like that. And you can go and try climbing trees and exploring every detail of your surrounding, but it will never be like that. It will bore you quickly because the world is no longer new. (except if you take acid, but we cant make the whole PWI comunity take acid anyway)

SylenThunder - Twilight Temple

WannaBM - Archosaur wrote: »

What assumption. I too understand the nostalgia and it isnt long ago that i made a new toon with the intention to really play it.

I made it to level 12 before i was bored ****less with it and went back to TT farming on my main because yes that is more fun to me.

Nostalgia because yes it was so nice when it was the first time and everything was new. But it will never again be the first time and it will never again be new. History does not come back.

Look at it objectively.

Can you honestly state why you got bored by level 12?