Remove Purify Proc: Y/N. We had it coming!

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Let me rephrase for you.. "I'm not an endgame BM, but my opinions on end game pvp should not only be taken seriously, but as equivalent to someone that is end game and very active in pvp.. because well.. I have no fking idea".

Again you seem to be making the... arguably stupid assumption that people who are against it shouldn't be in this convo, that at best is a half baked argument, no one has accepted it yet, and I doubt anyone will.

As I have said before in this thread in EXTREME cases your right the gear difference shouldn't allow most g16's to take down a r93r alone which n most cases it is absolutely true, but really when a g16 melee character comes along and is only hitting for 3 digit damage, and you have 20k+ hp, that only helps the chances of that proc being overpowered in that case, more damage should NOT mean that caster have a better chance of breaking something. (which is the argument that has been used before in this thread, and I still see no reason to disagree with. (obviously as does zanryu/the other people who have conitnuilly posted their disgust about this skill being oped in certian situations. (No matter HOW obscrue they might be.)

It is not like we are fighting with tt99 expecting to be of signficant help, hell we aren't even asking to be able to trully kill you with g16, we are talking about the proc being overpowered in a place it SHOULD not be. (that being when it has a higher chance of activating the more people it has attacking 'it.'.... and sure there may be other cskills similiar to it, but really none is as overpowered as the purify proc or there would be a whole nother discussion/thread about that skill being overpowered. (with neither side relenting)

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Let me rephrase for you.. "I'm not an endgame BM, but my opinions on end game pvp should not only be taken seriously, but as equivalent to someone that is end game and very active in pvp.. because well.. I have no fking idea".

See, that's where your arrogance shows. You think simply because you're end game on a PWI server that nobody but other end game people can have valid opinions on gameplay at that level. While that would make sense were I incompetent, that is not the case.

Eoria - Harshlands wrote: »

Purify proc is needed because without it, a caster would be solely relying on AD and Badge to break out of stunlock and once AD's down and Badge fails, we'd be ****ed. Alternatively, a sin comes out of stealth and herp derp occult ice's us to death. This is not fun to play against. It really isn't. Sure, Purify may not be the funnest to play against either, but they also put in the tools to combat it (hello disarm and an extra three CC skills on top of that with the new Morai skills, BMs) and you can get around it by just forcing everyone to play better (hint: chain CC and debuff for the DDs that can take them out). If your main problem with it is in mass PVP, kill the idiot that keeps procing it like a dumbass. If your main problem with it is in NW, honestly, I think they should put a set speed cap on the flag runner (7.5m/s was the number suggested earlier in the thread, I think; that would work).

If you're going to suggest putting a CD system on it, there's problem with that: people will abuse the fact that it's on a CD to purposely tick it so that it can't be used a la what sins currently do to get around a wizzie's Arcane Defense. And well, it can also be ticked by mobs in this case.

Edit- Forgot to mention...archers, I sorta feel sorry for you. Honestly, you guys need a bit of an overhaul, but I'm at a loss as to where to start. Meanwhile, we have mainly sins and BMs here ******** about needing more perks when sins never needed anything more in the first place and BMs got their buffs via new skills and skill updates.

Those aren't your only options, you can use them in combination with class skills or apothecary to buy time to allow for your genie to recharge. There's also the option of Expel. Melee classes aren't the only ones with CC you know.

I fail to see how ticking something on purpose isn't a valid strategy, people do that for Mdef and Pdef charms, they wait for the right moment to tick a charm so they can go in for a kill, they tick Arcane Defense either to prevent a killing blow or to start a strategy to aps. It's all about how you use what's there to your advantage. Even with a 30 second cooldown, in combination with class and genie skills there would be ample time for most classes to regain the ability to use Purify Spell by the time it would be needed. Unless of course every Arcane out there is unable to survive that long un-aided, which is not the case.

I can't speak for sins, they seem as if they have everything they need seeing as they were overpowered from the start and are now down to about everyone else's level, but Blademaster damage has always been lackluster. I suppose I can't complain given the amount of CC we have. If anything a small addition to damage or a way to save chi without going Sage would be great, 'cause as it stands we spend the most chi of any class to do far less damage, the exception being Barbs that aren't throwing around Armageddons. Dem stunlocksies be draining mah chiz.

Adroit - Lost City

Slivaf - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Again you seem to be making the... arguably stupid assumption that people who are against it shouldn't be in this convo, that at best is a half baked argument, no one has accepted it yet, and I doubt anyone will.

Yeah, again I've never said that (or anything even close). I do however think that people that are not end game should probably remain silent on how end game pvp really is. You can talk about how OP you think purify proc is from going in NW and feeling useless trying to stop them.. but extending your opinion into saying that the suggestions you made wouldn't affect end game pvp without actually knowing anything about end game pvp is pretty stupid.

@Zanryu - "You think simply because you're end game on a PWI server that nobody but other end game people can have valid opinions on gameplay at that level" - Bingo. Just the same as the opinion of a single scientist in their area of research would trump that of a million lay people on the same subject.. you don't know what end game pvp is like, therefore your opinions on the matter are ignored.

Fissile - Archosaur

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

@Zanryu - "You think simply because you're end game on a PWI server that nobody but other end game people can have valid opinions on gameplay at that level" - Bingo. Just the same as the opinion of a single scientist in their area of research would trump that of a million lay people on the same subject.. you don't know what end game pvp is like, therefore your opinions on the matter are ignored.

Someone should tell that to the politicians

____BM____ - Sanctuary

Hmm i wonder how casters ever survived without purify proc before it was ever here b:shutup

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

@Zanryu - "You think simply because you're end game on a PWI server that nobody but other end game people can have valid opinions on gameplay at that level" - Bingo. Just the same as the opinion of a single scientist in their area of research would trump that of a million lay people on the same subject.. you don't know what end game pvp is like, therefore your opinions on the matter are ignored.

Yet again you resort to extremes, for a scientist to obtain so much knowledge in their respective field it takes years of study and research, this is a game. Being at end game does not mean you know more about how the game works or its mechanics better than someone of the same level who does not have comparable gear. Your metaphor holds no ground because it isn't exactly relevant to the situation.

Were you to present an argument that made logical sense I would admit to being wrong, however that has yet to be the case. If your knowledge on the subject exceeds my own to such a degree then it should be no trouble to prove me or anyone else opposing Purify Spell wrong.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

Yeah, again I've never said that (or anything even close). I do however think that people that are not end game should probably remain silent on how end game pvp really is. You can talk about how OP you think purify proc is from going in NW and feeling useless trying to stop them.. but extending your opinion into saying that the suggestions you made wouldn't affect end game pvp without actually knowing anything about end game pvp is pretty stupid.

@Zanryu - "You think simply because you're end game on a PWI server that nobody but other end game people can have valid opinions on gameplay at that level" - Bingo. Just the same as the opinion of a single scientist in their area of research would trump that of a million lay people on the same subject.. you don't know what end game pvp is like, therefore your opinions on the matter are ignored.

Now that I can understand, and I do agree with it. I do apologise for the bad assumption on my part. (EDIT: but really can you blame me, if you stated this from the begining, perhaps there would NOT have been this much ruckus... involving your statements.. this is why simple one liners imo are bad ideas) Still my opinion remains that people who are in g16 gear shouldn't have to be told not to attack, nor do they imo do such an insignficant amount of damage that a r93r should be soloing a 20 v1 fight, and in some cases have a proc activating for them when people who have lesser damage is trying to help take them down, and yet it allows them to potentially run away that is where the skill is overpowered.

It may or may not be overpowered in full end game gear, your right I can't comment on that, and tbh I can't recall ever saying whether it was or wasnt oped end game. (If i did, then obviously i was wrong to do so, and now obviously I am coceding that it is wrong to do so.)

Fissile - Archosaur

____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hmm i wonder how casters ever survived without purify proc before it was ever here b:shutup

They didn't.

f:brick <-- It looked something like that

Hannsel - Dreamweaver

70 pages already b:shocked

imho a proc can/will NOT be nerfed because undergeared peeps make it seem "OP".

KingCrash - Dreamweaver

____BM____ - Sanctuary wrote: »

Hmm i wonder how casters ever survived without purify proc before it was ever here b:shutup

There used to be this thing called squads.

Tsyn - Raging Tide

@Adroit, our foremost proponent of the Purify weapon effect. And also any other proponents, though it seems to me that Adroit at the moment is the only one who can formulate valid arguments. (The rest seem to just say "hey I survive more, so gud" and go along with it.)

Here are my reasons, gathered from both my personal opinion and from this thread, as to why Purify is overpowered. Please tell me why they are not valid.

A. Purify is the singular worthwhile proc (excluding Infinite) that does not require someone to deal damage in order to take affect.
This renders Purify users able to escape from CC that would otherwise be totally unavoidable (think dead genie, no apoth - any HA would be dead or as good as dead). How is this balanced?

B. Purify is the fastest proc in the game. While other procs can happen at a max of up to 5 times per second (GoF G15 daggers), because they are based on attacks, Purify has an infinite number of times it can proc per second. Does this seem like too much?

C. Purify reverses class roles. No longer can a BM or Barb survive the most opponents - now an Arcane can survive the most, even though clearly the Arcane classes are meant to deal damage only, and be somewhat squishier. Now, with Purify, they can both dish and take damage, while HAs cannot to the same degree. This is a major reversal of rolls. How is this unbalanced?
Note the use of the word "survive". Not "tank".

D. Purify makes other (weaker) attacks HELP its user, instead of helping the attacker. The fact that the addition of more attackers HELPS, instead of say, DISADVANTAGES, the user, is counter-intuitive.

E. You always seem to tell us that Purify would have little to no complaints if everyone was endgame. However, keep in mind that not everyone IS endgame, and this will always be the case.
This is a metaphor, for me, of how you are arguing about this.

"A nail does not generally rust in the ocean, because if the ocean had no salt in it, it wouldn't rust."
Clearly, as of 2013 C.E., the oceans have salt in them.

"Purify is not overpowered in PWI, because if PWI had no noobs, it wouldn't be overpowered."
Clearly, as of May 2013, PWI has undergeared noobs in it.

You take Purify completely out of context in this. If everyone WAS endgame, sure, you would be valid. Unfortunately, for us, we know that this will never be the case, and there shall always be noobs. Purify is overpowered because of the current situation in PWI.

F. How are Zanryu's opinions irrelevant? More importantly, how are someone's opinions irrelevant if they do not possess endgame gear?

You said it yourself in your own youtube channel. Many people on the server simply "faceroll", and yet they might be endgame. Are their opinions more important than someone who can comprehend and analyze endgame PvP, despite them never having endgame gear themselves?

I will always, personally, listen to someone's opinion if they can comprehend the issue. Clearly, many others and myself can comprehend this even better than some people at endgame. Why should we be ignored? If this discussion is scholarly, then the answer is clear: Yes, our voices are just as equal to yours if our knowledge and our understanding is equal to yours.

I apologize for the fact that I'm unable to simplify any further, but Purify is obviously a complex and sensitive issue.

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Hannsel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

70 pages already b:shocked

imho a proc can/will NOT be nerfed because undergeared peeps make it seem "OP".

That just the case there shouldn't be a situation like this where the skill is that overpowered. No skill should have the adverse effect of killing someone for absurd amounts of time/reasons. (unless it is a skill like being healed, defensive shields that were originally there... etc)

As for the comment about the scientists, it is rather asinine IMHO to think that someone even if in a 1 in 10 scenario, does NOT know a thing or two about the same field of the 'expert' scientist. I think the same could effectively apply to the end game mechanics. (I obviously don't know it all about end game play, but I do know, there are a few things that are blatantly obvious even if I don't have insane gears. (I have seen first hand how much easier it is to do things on other melee classes... the kill/surviving thing I mentioned a while back... with exactly the same gear on each melee class.)

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear

The more I read these posts the more it seems the issue isn't the purify proc itself but the huge difference between g16 and R93 gear. Personally I don't see purify itself as the problem as stun chaining was indeed a problem for casters and purify gives them a fighting chance with interrupts being thrown in. The speed buff is a bit much, quick escapes were a venos territory, now every R93 caster can do it :P.

But I think both sides are throwing out arguments that are completely missing the underlying problems of having the purify (or purge, or GOF) on a R93 weapon, and that is that its destroying competitive gameplay. Many people say you have to play better because of it but I disagree, I believe it encourages worse gameplay because it tilts the field in the R93s favor even more than what they already get through gear alone.

I mean, seriously, S3 players shouldn't attack in NW so that R93's can come over and do the DDing before the purify proc? That's not a problem? That's not something that should raise a red flag and tell people, hmmm maybe this is completely broken? Having a R9 cleric stand there while a BM pummels her only to have them whirlwind and thunder orb him to death while not even taking significant damage themselves (yes I've seen it happen) and this encourages people to "get better?" How can you sit there and say you are a good player while you can have 20 people shooting/hitting/zapping you and you just walk away from it...

I do believe R93s should have and advantage vs. S3 players. However there is a difference between having an advantage, and being unstoppable. Saying balance should only be considered with R9 vs. R9 is also incredibly biased. There are a lot of non R9's on all servors and saying they are a non factor just proves that the balance of the game itself is stupidly broken.

I guess what I'm saying is focusing on the purify proc by itself is just poor judgement as it really isn't that game breaking when taken on it's own merits. If said caster had standard caster stat values the purify proc would work as a "jink" save as opposed to creating all the problems people are bringing up. If you want to nerf it's effectiveness based on that save alone I would recommend looking at the bigger picture.

Eoria - Harshlands

The game would be relatively balanced gear-wise if it was normal r9 vs. g16 Nirvana, yes. r9rr is disgusting. To me, it seems like the gap between normal r9+g16 Nirv vs. r9rr is so much bigger than even what the gap between normal r9 vs. r8+1st and 2nd recast Nirv was. tbh, I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't have been added in the first place. But PWE is greedy so...

Hannsel - Dreamweaver

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

......
A. Purify is the singular worthwhile proc (excluding Infinite) that does not require someone to deal damage in order to take affect.
This renders Purify users able to escape from CC that would otherwise be totally unavoidable (think dead genie, no apoth - any HA would be dead or as good as dead). How is this balanced? PS is defensive proc thats why u have to be hit for it to work. its expected to save you in situation you would have otherwise have lost otherwise whats the point of defensive procs. HA shouldn't expect the same as they don't have it. this doesnt mean its unbalanced

......

C. Purify reverses class roles. No longer can a BM or Barb survive the most opponents - now an Arcane can survive the most, even though clearly the Arcane classes are meant to deal damage only, and be somewhat squishier. Now, with Purify, they can both dish and take damage, while HAs cannot to the same degree. This is a major reversal of rolls. How is this unbalanced?
Note the use of the word "survive". Not "tank". this is true in solo vs undergeared/coordinated enemies.. VS equal targets paired with a cleric the BM/barb survives much better.

D. Purify makes other (weaker) attacks HELP its user, instead of helping the attacker. The fact that the addition of more attackers HELPS, instead of say, DISADVANTAGES, the user, is counter-intuitive. again this is valid vs undergeared noobs. the solution is for them to assist in non-damaging ways; wail CC/debuffs, minimal herp derping

E. You always seem to tell us that Purify would have little to no complaints if everyone was endgame. However, keep in mind that not everyone IS endgame, and this will always be the case.
This is a metaphor, for me, of how you are arguing about this.

"A nail does not generally rust in the ocean, because if the ocean had no salt in it, it wouldn't rust."
Clearly, as of 2013 C.E., the oceans have salt in them.

"Purify is not overpowered in PWI, because if PWI had no noobs, it wouldn't be overpowered."
Clearly, as of May 2013, PWI has undergeared noobs in it.

You take Purify completely out of context in this. If everyone WAS endgame, sure, you would be valid. Unfortunately, for us, we know that this will never be the case, and there shall always be noobs. Purify is overpowered because of the current situation in PWI. undergeared people do NOT factor in the balancing concept. a simple illustration is 1-shotting a random 5k hp, 2k pdef cleric through plume shell using +12 daggers, u cant use this to argue 'GoF is OP', so i dont understand why you'd want PS nerfed because of it.

......

replies of a b:cute

Fissile - Archosaur

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Adroit, our foremost proponent of the Purify weapon effect. And also any other proponents, though it seems to me that Adroit at the moment is the only one who can formulate valid arguments. (The rest seem to just say "hey I survive more, so gud" and go along with it.)

Here are my reasons, gathered from both my personal opinion and from this thread, as to why Purify is overpowered. Please tell me why they are not valid.

A. Purify is the singular worthwhile proc (excluding Infinite) that does not require someone to deal damage in order to take affect.
This renders Purify users able to escape from CC that would otherwise be totally unavoidable (think dead genie, no apoth - any HA would be dead or as good as dead). How is this balanced?

B. Purify is the fastest proc in the game. While other procs can happen at a max of up to 5 times per second (GoF G15 daggers), because they are based on attacks, Purify has an infinite number of times it can proc per second. Does this seem like too much? No (according to other threads stating the game is updated in 0.05s increments) it is effectively limited to 20 times in a second, not to mention the proc rate is ~4x lower than GoF. To get an average proc rate of 1 purify per second you would need to take around 20 attacks per second constantly, which it is unlikely anyone would survive for more than a few seconds. Even if it does proc many times in a short period (less than a second) the marginal benefit of each of the additional procs is close to nothing since debuffs cant be added that fast anyway.

C. Purify reverses class roles. No longer can a BM or Barb survive the most opponents - now an Arcane can survive the most, even though clearly the Arcane classes are meant to deal damage only, and be somewhat squishier. Now, with Purify, they can both dish and take damage, while HAs cannot to the same degree. This is a major reversal of rolls. How is this unbalanced?
Note the use of the word "survive". Not "tank". HA can tank lots of damage, LA gets to choose their battles via stealth, and AA get to run away. BMs are the only real exception here because of their limited ability to run away and less favorable defense compared to barbs and seekers.

D. Purify makes other (weaker) attacks HELP its user, instead of helping the attacker. The fact that the addition of more attackers HELPS, instead of say, DISADVANTAGES, the user, is counter-intuitive.The only time this is an issue is in NW where the GOAL of the event is to run away. In actual PVP battles running away is of limited use. I proposed a speed cap of 7.5m/s on ALL flag carriers to remedy this issue for NW and others have seemed to accept this idea.

<snip, don't have time to type more at the moment>

dat color

Slivaf - Dreamweaver

Hannsel - Dreamweaver wrote: »

......
A. Purify is the singular worthwhile proc (excluding Infinite) that does not require someone to deal damage in order to take affect.
This renders Purify users able to escape from CC that would otherwise be totally unavoidable (think dead genie, no apoth - any HA would be dead or as good as dead). How is this balanced? PS is defensive proc thats why u have to be hit for it to work. its expected to save you in situation you would have otherwise have lost otherwise whats the point of defensive procs. HA shouldn't expect the same as they don't have it. this doesnt mean its unbalanced.

While this may be true, you casters would so be qqing if melees had a proc on a weapon that was arguably a s overpowered as the purify proc. (i.e, if melee had a proc that reflected every bit of magic damage they do to us melees it would one shot the casters, a proc like that would seriously be overpowered, and allow for similar saves as the purify proc.) This may indeed be an extreme situation that those who are against it are using, however, NO class s h o u l d have a case like this, where they are surviving a absurd amount of hits from lesser geared players + stronger geared players. Until you go into the extreme opposite with what some ppl have argued... of course when the gear is less than g16 +10ish they shouldn't be doing that much damage, which they aren't, but they also should NOT be helping the r93r have the chance to escape the onslaught from the higher geared players, having to get them to stop, or having to have very specific skills in there to combat this skill that EVERY r93r casters gets is just plain absurdity imho.

......

C. Purify reverses class roles. No longer can a BM or Barb survive the most opponents - now an Arcane can survive the most, even though clearly the Arcane classes are meant to deal damage only, and be somewhat squishier. Now, with Purify, they can both dish and take damage, while HAs cannot to the same degree. This is a major reversal of rolls. How is this unbalanced?
Note the use of the word "survive". Not "tank". this is true in solo vs undergeared/coordinated enemies.. VS equal targets paired with a cleric the BM/barb survives much better.

If the bm./barb has a cleric helping then they aren't soloing, ijs; however, I am sure that is frustrating to MANY people still, but it still is NOT soloing. Ergo that imho is a poor example.

D. Purify makes other (weaker) attacks HELP its user, instead of helping the attacker. The fact that the addition of more attackers HELPS, instead of say, DISADVANTAGES, the user, is counter-intuitive. again this is valid vs undergeared noobs. the solution is for them to assist in non-damaging ways; wail CC/debuffs, minimal herp derping

E. You always seem to tell us that Purify would have little to no complaints if everyone was endgame. However, keep in mind that not everyone IS endgame, and this will always be the case.
This is a metaphor, for me, of how you are arguing about this.

"A nail does not generally rust in the ocean, because if the ocean had no salt in it, it wouldn't rust."
Clearly, as of 2013 C.E., the oceans have salt in them.

"Purify is not overpowered in PWI, because if PWI had no noobs, it wouldn't be overpowered."
Clearly, as of May 2013, PWI has undergeared noobs in it.

You take Purify completely out of context in this. If everyone WAS endgame, sure, you would be valid. Unfortunately, for us, we know that this will never be the case, and there shall always be noobs. Purify is overpowered because of the current situation in PWI. undergeared people do NOT factor in the balancing concept. a simple illustration is 1-shotting a random 5k hp, 2k pdef cleric through plume shell using +12 daggers, u cant use this to argue 'GoF is OP', so i dont understand why you'd want PS nerfed because of it.replies of a b:cute

That just the thing though they do factor in, especially when they as I and others have numerously pointed out, they should not be having to be told not to attack, there damage should ABSOLUTELY be helping take down the caster, not allowing a proc a higher chance of saving their ***** in a situation, where their gear, really doesn't severely out perform the cumulative gear/stats etc of their opponents.

Wow your replies were hard to reply too.. not that they were stupid or anything like that, nor was it that they were hard to think of a rebuttal, it was just the way the quote system works on here.

Tsyn - Raging Tide

@Hannsel: You're completely missing the point.

A. It is overpowered because yes, it is a defensive proc, but also because it is the first one PWI has ever implemented (based on hits taken instead of dealt). They overcompensated. Thus all my other points.

It also does give offensive capability; the purify user can escape stunlocks and be antistunned and thus has time to AoE, decimate, etc etc.

B. We're looking at the overall situation here. Not the 1 case scenario that works for you on paper.

C to end: Really? You completely ignore my point about the environment of noobs, the sea of G16 that we swim in? Please, next time, if you're going to reply to something, kindly reply to everything. Your answers to my post make a fair point, except that I already discussed them in my post.

@Fissile:

B. Totally forgot about the .05. The thing is, Purify has a much higher % threshhold for proc rate, whereas GoF/SB remain fixed or at least limited to attack rate of the USER, not attackers.

C. True. We all have our methods for group PvP, EXCEPT Arcane's can survive theirs.

HAs can tank, but eventually they die to their attackers.
LAs can choose their fights, but eventually they die to their attackers.
AAs can run - they never die to their attackers, they just get away.

Die - die - live. Seems a bit unbalanced to me in any case, especially when the survivor in question is able to 1shot of their attackers as soon as they put about 30 meters distance in between them. (2 seconds)l.

D. Still doesn't answer the fact that people attacking actually HELP, whereas even if they have significantly weaker gear, they should actually disadvantage the Purify user. That would stop most of the QQ, but I'm one of those people who actually cares about group PvP and killing casters, too.

Gz on being someone else besides Adroit to answer competently btw, fiss XD

Kniraven - Lost City

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Adroit, our foremost proponent of the Purify weapon effect. And also any other proponents, though it seems to me that Adroit at the moment is the only one who can formulate valid arguments. (The rest seem to just say "hey I survive more, so gud" and go along with it.)

Here are my reasons, gathered from both my personal opinion and from this thread, as to why Purify is overpowered. Please tell me why they are not valid.

A. Purify is the singular worthwhile proc (excluding Infinite) that does not require someone to deal damage in order to take affect.
This renders Purify users able to escape from CC that would otherwise be totally unavoidable (think dead genie, no apoth - any HA would be dead or as good as dead). How is this balanced?

B. Purify is the fastest proc in the game. While other procs can happen at a max of up to 5 times per second (GoF G15 daggers), because they are based on attacks, Purify has an infinite number of times it can proc per second. Does this seem like too much?

C. Purify reverses class roles. No longer can a BM or Barb survive the most opponents - now an Arcane can survive the most, even though clearly the Arcane classes are meant to deal damage only, and be somewhat squishier. Now, with Purify, they can both dish and take damage, while HAs cannot to the same degree. This is a major reversal of rolls. How is this unbalanced?
Note the use of the word "survive". Not "tank".

D. Purify makes other (weaker) attacks HELP its user, instead of helping the attacker. The fact that the addition of more attackers HELPS, instead of say, DISADVANTAGES, the user, is counter-intuitive.

E. You always seem to tell us that Purify would have little to no complaints if everyone was endgame. However, keep in mind that not everyone IS endgame, and this will always be the case.
This is a metaphor, for me, of how you are arguing about this.

"A nail does not generally rust in the ocean, because if the ocean had no salt in it, it wouldn't rust."
Clearly, as of 2013 C.E., the oceans have salt in them.

"Purify is not overpowered in PWI, because if PWI had no noobs, it wouldn't be overpowered."
Clearly, as of May 2013, PWI has undergeared noobs in it.

You take Purify completely out of context in this. If everyone WAS endgame, sure, you would be valid. Unfortunately, for us, we know that this will never be the case, and there shall always be noobs. Purify is overpowered because of the current situation in PWI.

F. How are Zanryu's opinions irrelevant? More importantly, how are someone's opinions irrelevant if they do not possess endgame gear?

You said it yourself in your own youtube channel. Many people on the server simply "faceroll", and yet they might be endgame. Are their opinions more important than someone who can comprehend and analyze endgame PvP, despite them never having endgame gear themselves?

I will always, personally, listen to someone's opinion if they can comprehend the issue. Clearly, many others and myself can comprehend this even better than some people at endgame. Why should we be ignored? If this discussion is scholarly, then the answer is clear: Yes, our voices are just as equal to yours if our knowledge and our understanding is equal to yours.

I apologize for the fact that I'm unable to simplify any further, but Purify is obviously a complex and sensitive issue.

Quoted for Truth and Clarity +1

marvinhuddleston

Leave purify alone or remove god of frenzy as well ... Fair is Fair

Adroit - Lost City

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Adroit, our foremost proponent of the Purify weapon effect. And also any other proponents, though it seems to me that Adroit at the moment is the only one who can formulate valid arguments. (The rest seem to just say "hey I survive more, so gud" and go along with it.)

Here are my reasons, gathered from both my personal opinion and from this thread, as to why Purify is overpowered. Please tell me why they are not valid.

A. Purify is the singular worthwhile proc (excluding Infinite) that does not require someone to deal damage in order to take affect.
This renders Purify users able to escape from CC that would otherwise be totally unavoidable (think dead genie, no apoth - any HA would be dead or as good as dead). How is this balanced?

B. Purify is the fastest proc in the game. While other procs can happen at a max of up to 5 times per second (GoF G15 daggers), because they are based on attacks, Purify has an infinite number of times it can proc per second. Does this seem like too much?

C. Purify reverses class roles. No longer can a BM or Barb survive the most opponents - now an Arcane can survive the most, even though clearly the Arcane classes are meant to deal damage only, and be somewhat squishier. Now, with Purify, they can both dish and take damage, while HAs cannot to the same degree. This is a major reversal of rolls. How is this unbalanced?
Note the use of the word "survive". Not "tank".

D. Purify makes other (weaker) attacks HELP its user, instead of helping the attacker. The fact that the addition of more attackers HELPS, instead of say, DISADVANTAGES, the user, is counter-intuitive.

E. You always seem to tell us that Purify would have little to no complaints if everyone was endgame. However, keep in mind that not everyone IS endgame, and this will always be the case.
This is a metaphor, for me, of how you are arguing about this.

"A nail does not generally rust in the ocean, because if the ocean had no salt in it, it wouldn't rust."
Clearly, as of 2013 C.E., the oceans have salt in them.

"Purify is not overpowered in PWI, because if PWI had no noobs, it wouldn't be overpowered."
Clearly, as of May 2013, PWI has undergeared noobs in it.

You take Purify completely out of context in this. If everyone WAS endgame, sure, you would be valid. Unfortunately, for us, we know that this will never be the case, and there shall always be noobs. Purify is overpowered because of the current situation in PWI.

F. How are Zanryu's opinions irrelevant? More importantly, how are someone's opinions irrelevant if they do not possess endgame gear?

You said it yourself in your own youtube channel. Many people on the server simply "faceroll", and yet they might be endgame. Are their opinions more important than someone who can comprehend and analyze endgame PvP, despite them never having endgame gear themselves?

I will always, personally, listen to someone's opinion if they can comprehend the issue. Clearly, many others and myself can comprehend this even better than some people at endgame. Why should we be ignored? If this discussion is scholarly, then the answer is clear: Yes, our voices are just as equal to yours if our knowledge and our understanding is equal to yours.

I apologize for the fact that I'm unable to simplify any further, but Purify is obviously a complex and sensitive issue.

A. Describing how the proc works is not an argument for it being OP.

B. Describing how the proc works is not an argument for it being OP.

C. Purify allows casters to kite, not to constantly tank. A HA class can still take several opponents, it may not matter if 2-3 people are hitting a BM or barb.. they can continue pushing through and doing their job (i.e. get into the fray taking damage while still being able to stun/DD etc). A purify caster might escape to live another day with those same 2-3 opponents, but they are forced to run/kite to safety instead of doing damage. Also there seems to be a misconception that getting a proc is essentially a 5 second immune, which it certainly is not. I'd say that a majority of my deaths occur right after a proc, getting a proc with charm on cd and 8k hp left is not a get out of jail free card.. a couple ranged r9rr +12 hits and I could easily drop (and often times do). Anyway, it hasn't reversed the roles, the barbs/bms are still running into the fray doing their thing, and casters are still forced to kite.. they just have another tool to help them do that.

D. Encouraging noobs to learn how to play is a good thing, not a bad thing imo.

E. I don't think that there is any obligation or even be realistic for the devs to try to "balance" people of different gear levels. I don't think the term "balance" even makes sense in this context.. so saying that it is unbalanced for one r9rr to take on 20 lesser geared is a meaningless statement to me.

F. His opinions are irrelevant on end game pvp because he has never experienced it. I didn't say that all of his opinions are invalid ("opinions" is really the wrong word here, he has made several claims that are demonstrably wrong), but many of the things he has said relating to end game pvp are very misinformed. (I've pointed out a couple of them.. almost hate to point them all out, if he ever does reach end game and re-reads his own posts in this thread he'd be horrified how noob he sounds). Yes, if your "knowledge and understanding" is equal to mine, your opinions on this matter would certainly have the same weight, but I don't believe this is the case (you can't have the same knowledge/understanding of end game pvp as me without ever experiencing end game pvp..)

Northern - Dreamweaver

Let me again point out that with just alittle searching you can find video of r93 geared archers,seekers, and barbs totally pawning entire screen fulls of noobs. It is not just arcanes with purify.


Yeah, bms will always be at a disadvantage to everyclass in NW as they aren't as tanky as a barb and other than a barb they are the only non range killer. WEll sins too, but their stealth is like range sorta.

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A. Describing how the proc works is not an argument for it being OP.

It is if the way it works is OP.

B. Describing how the proc works is not an argument for it being OP.

It is if the way it works is OP.

C. Purify allows casters to kite, not to constantly tank. A HA class can still take several opponents, it may not matter if 2-3 people are hitting a BM or barb.. they can continue pushing through and doing their job (i.e. get into the fray taking damage while still being able to stun/DD etc). A purify caster might escape to live another day with those same 2-3 opponents, but they are forced to run/kite to safety instead of doing damage. Also there seems to be a misconception that getting a proc is essentially a 5 second immune, which it certainly is not. I'd say that a majority of my deaths occur right after a proc, getting a proc with charm on cd and 8k hp left is not a get out of jail free card.. a couple ranged r9rr +12 hits and I could easily drop (and often times do). Anyway, it hasn't reversed the roles, the barbs/bms are still running into the fray doing their thing, and casters are still forced to kite.. they just have another tool to help them do that.

That same BM or Barb will be locked down with no way to combat it once initial anti-CC is up or if they are prevented from using it via seal/stun before they're able to use it. Genies will only get you so far when having constant CC thrown at you. A Purify Spell wielding caster will be able to kite, and because they deal damage from long range that is advantageous. More advantageous than GoF in regards to each class doing their respective jobs.

D. Encouraging noobs to learn how to play is a good thing, not a bad thing imo.

It doesn't really teach noobs to play, you don't learn a whole lot by being told to avoid something or to only use certain things on it. While there's a degree of teamwork it won't help someone better themselves at their class as that's not real combat experience. You learn by doing, and if all they're learning to do is lock without doing damage that won't aid them in most other situations.

E. I don't think that there is any obligation or even be realistic for the devs to try to "balance" people of different gear levels. I don't think the term "balance" even makes sense in this context.. so saying that it is unbalanced for one r9rr to take on 20 lesser geared is a meaningless statement to me.

It isn't that it's unbalanced that 20 G16s can't take down an R9r3, it's that if they try to attack they do nothing but help the opposing R9r3. Were a Melee to be fighting that same battle, all that damage would add up over time and take it down eventually.

F. His opinions are irrelevant on end game pvp because he has never experienced it. I didn't say that all of his opinions are invalid ("opinions" is really the wrong word here, he has made several claims that are demonstrably wrong), but many of the things he has said relating to end game pvp are very misinformed. (I've pointed out a couple of them.. almost hate to point them all out, if he ever does reach end game and re-reads his own posts in this thread he'd be horrified how noob he sounds). Yes, if your "knowledge and understanding" is equal to mine, your opinions on this matter would certainly have the same weight, but I don't believe this is the case (you can't have the same knowledge/understanding of end game pvp as me without ever experiencing end game pvp..)

Yet again, arrogance. The inability to believe someone lesser than you can have valid and relevant opinions simply because they are not at the same level of gear as you and are unable to fight in the same way. Using that logic, your opinion on anything but Wizards is rendered irrelevant as you are unable to play them at the same level as those of us who use the classes in question. In essence, that means any opinion you may have regarding how Purify Spell works in relation to everything but a Wizard is invalid and can be disregarded. Seeing as this is not actually the case, that leaves the option of your judgement that my opinions are invalid for that one reason wrong and irrelevant to the discussion. Even if it were, there are others of higher gear levels than myself who for the most part can agree with my statements, once again rendering that judgement of yours irrelevant.


On that note, even with my inexperience at end game the only in game mechanics of that level I've really discussed here would be Purify Spell and how it works. Which, so far I haven't been wrong about. Nothing I've said on subject could be used to say I lack experience with dealing with it, in fact because I've gone up against it so many times my opinions on it are in fact relevant. Even without end game gear. Stop being so arrogant as to believe only you or someone of your gear tier can have valid opinions on this subject, because that's simply not true.

Replies in red. Man I hate writing that much. This isn't english class yo.

marvinhuddleston

As long as God of Frenzy proc remains , the purify proc is the arcanes only chance to escape . To remove one without removing the other would be unfair to the arcane and just allow them to get ***** repetedly .

Zanryu - Dreamweaver

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

As long as God of Frenzy proc remains , the purify proc is the arcanes only chance to escape . To remove one without removing the other would be unfair to the arcane and just allow them to get ***** repetedly .

That hasn't been true for a long time.

We aren't even discussing removal, but a nerf. Specifically adding a cooldown. See, this si the kind of person you should be complaining about Adroit, someone who is unable to put together a logical reason for what he wants. Oh well. I suppose I'm the most convenient target for such claims seeing as I oppose your views.

Tsyn - Raging Tide

Snowwww.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A/B. It's a new thing completely, except PWE forgot to make sure it had a counter. It's overpowered because in the given situation, there are people who will still ignore how Purify works and attack like mad, benefiting the caster.

C. Purify allows casters to kite, not to constantly tank. A HA class can still take several opponents, it may not matter if 2-3 people are hitting a BM or barb.. they can continue pushing through and doing their job (i.e. get into the fray taking damage while still being able to stun/DD etc). A purify caster might escape to live another day with those same 2-3 opponents, but they are forced to run/kite to safety instead of doing damage. Also there seems to be a misconception that getting a proc is essentially a 5 second immune, which it certainly is not. I'd say that a majority of my deaths occur right after a proc, getting a proc with charm on cd and 8k hp left is not a get out of jail free card.. a couple ranged r9rr +12 hits and I could easily drop (and often times do). Anyway, it hasn't reversed the roles, the barbs/bms are still running into the fray doing their thing, and casters are still forced to kite.. they just have another tool to help them do that.

...Obviously Purify is not an immune, but you misunderstand my point, which is that when an HA or LA would die to overwhelming numbers, AAs can escape and return about 10 seconds later to smash everyone into the ground.

(I even noted the use of the word "survive", not "tank". Survive = Get out safely, Tank = Take damage and live but not necessarily escape.)

You do this in your videos quite often right before capping the flag; I'd consider 10 seconds a minimal difference between "escaping" and "coming back up and dropping nuclear bombs". Small enough that Purify can be linked to an offensive comeback.

As for you dying while Purify proc: Oh, that's a pity. When other classes would have died, you have a 50% chance to die when getting attacked. 50% is not that different from 0%. So sad.

Apart from the fake sarcasm, we still need to remember that you getting attacked by people who can actually face you on the same level is a rare occurance. Most of the time, you're getting attacked by lesser geared people... who are part of the environment.

D. Encouraging noobs to learn how to play is a good thing, not a bad thing imo.

The noobs are the environment we play in. No matter how much they improve, there will always be new noobs to take their place. Thus:

Purify OP when in environment with noobs.
Noobs always present.
Therefore, environment will never change, and
Purify OP.

E. I don't think that there is any obligation or even be realistic for the devs to try to "balance" people of different gear levels. I don't think the term "balance" even makes sense in this context.. so saying that it is unbalanced for one r9rr to take on 20 lesser geared is a meaningless statement to me.

There is no balance towards G16 vs R9. The scales are always tipped. However, in this case with Purify, the scales are tipped the wrong way. Going to reply with something along the lines that I said earlier:

"How does this make sense? Drop 10 boulders on a car and it's crushed, but drop 10 rocks instead and it becomes polished with a new paint job?"

F. His opinions are irrelevant on end game pvp because he has never experienced it. I didn't say that all of his opinions are invalid ("opinions" is really the wrong word here, he has made several claims that are demonstrably wrong), but many of the things he has said relating to end game pvp are very misinformed. (I've pointed out a couple of them.. almost hate to point them all out, if he ever does reach end game and re-reads his own posts in this thread he'd be horrified how noob he sounds). Yes, if your "knowledge and understanding" is equal to mine, your opinions on this matter would certainly have the same weight, but I don't believe this is the case (you can't have the same knowledge/understanding of end game pvp as me without ever experiencing end game pvp..)

I've PvPed on a JoSD+12 character, but I still know a lot of non-EG geared people who are better than many actual EG "factors". Although you seem to be persecuting Zanryu now, and not any generalized group of people, so....

marvinhuddleston wrote: »

As long as God of Frenzy proc remains , the purify proc is the arcanes only chance to escape . To remove one without removing the other would be unfair to the arcane and just allow them to get ***** repetedly.

I thought I asked those people not to respond? Half these posts on this discussion are irrelevant or so [insert word here ] that I don't even know how to answer.

In actual response: We're discussing group PvP here. Purify in 1v1 is balanced. Arcanes escaped people with GoF just fine in 1v1. For group pvp: GoF, it doesn't really matter if you hit once if 19 of your mates are also hitting. (For exact math: Assuming exactly same DPS and 1 GoF, you gain 5% dps overall 20v1).

Brillance - Raging Tide

oVenusArmanio wrote: »

You claimed the proc won't save someone being attacked by a group. That it will never be the reason someone can't kill a caster. The proc can save someone. What would be it's use if it didn't? Caster half dead, heavily debuffed, puri procs, no more debuffs, avoids the killing blow, charm ticks=saved by purify proc. Even if you don't think it's overpowered, at least admit it could be the reason a caster is saved in a group situation. :P What would be the point in this entire debate, if it was never the reason someone couldn't kill a caster? What would be the point if it's never saved battles the caster would have otherwise lost? As I said before, I don't even necessarily think Purify should be nerfed. SO far the main problems I've been hearing is NW, and there is nothing stopping the devs from tweaking flag running to make these some of these speed skills less effective. I do think that a BM being punished because he cannot control the actions of the people around him is a legitimate criticism of the proc. But that's a problem really mostly in NW. In group PK, you can target and kill the people who won't listen. TW faction leaders can just not take undergeared people into the faction, or kick them if they won't listen. In NW, R999 bms are being punished for the actions of strangers, over whom they have no control. I find that a legitimate criticism.

A purify spell, proc or anything else will not 'save' someone.

I claimed it is not the reason an undergeared player will never kill an R9T3 +12 JosD caster, which is not the same as any old caster.

You yourself claim somehow a purify proc will "avoid the killing blow". You mean like dodgeball or something? Proc purify, released, body shifts spontaneously away from killing blows? I honestly think you are giving it way more credit than it deserves, but whatever.

You can suggest to the Devs to tweak the proc if you like, based on the QQ's of a couple players. That's your choice. I hope for the players of this game, it turns out to be a good one. Won't effect me, in case that's your motivation for feeding words into my mouth, lol. I has a cool and groovy plain old R8 wand. b:chuckle

Will you be asking them to tweak a clerics purify spell and a mystic's proc for the same reason?

So caster's cannot ever run the flag...*reflects on her comment that she doesn't care if she goes to NW or not, lol*

Will you be asking the devs to fix every undergeared Sage Mystic's AS too, since it is broken when facing higher geared players, or are you only concerned with 2 melee players?

Then you suggest TW factions for undergeared players should kick them or something?

Lol, where are R9T3 BMs being punished?? Omg, poor lil thingies aren't they?

Since you responded to my posts so very condescendingly and aggressively, while interpreting my words any old way you wish, and making your own story out of what I have said completely, I must confess I have serious concerns as to your motivation.

Have I annoyed the mighty, all-knowing and powerful you recently, or something? Or, is this your current demeanor toward everyone? *looks around thread*

Since I would imagine someone does not become modded because they respond to posts without reading them - this is feeling VERY personal. *shrugs*

Kniraven - Lost City

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

@Adroit, our foremost proponent of the Purify weapon effect. And also any other proponents, though it seems to me that Adroit at the moment is the only one who can formulate valid arguments. (The rest seem to just say "hey I survive more, so gud" and go along with it.)

Here are my reasons, gathered from both my personal opinion and from this thread, as to why Purify is overpowered. Please tell me why they are not valid.

A. Purify is the singular worthwhile proc (excluding Infinite) that does not require someone to deal damage in order to take affect.
This renders Purify users able to escape from CC that would otherwise be totally unavoidable (think dead genie, no apoth - any HA would be dead or as good as dead). How is this balanced?

B. Purify is the fastest proc in the game. While other procs can happen at a max of up to 5 times per second (GoF G15 daggers), because they are based on attacks, Purify has an infinite number of times it can proc per second. Does this seem like too much?

C. Purify reverses class roles. No longer can a BM or Barb survive the most opponents - now an Arcane can survive the most, even though clearly the Arcane classes are meant to deal damage only, and be somewhat squishier. Now, with Purify, they can both dish and take damage, while HAs cannot to the same degree. This is a major reversal of rolls. How is this unbalanced?
Note the use of the word "survive". Not "tank".

D. Purify makes other (weaker) attacks HELP its user, instead of helping the attacker. The fact that the addition of more attackers HELPS, instead of say, DISADVANTAGES, the user, is counter-intuitive.

E. You always seem to tell us that Purify would have little to no complaints if everyone was endgame. However, keep in mind that not everyone IS endgame, and this will always be the case.
This is a metaphor, for me, of how you are arguing about this.

"A nail does not generally rust in the ocean, because if the ocean had no salt in it, it wouldn't rust."
Clearly, as of 2013 C.E., the oceans have salt in them.

"Purify is not overpowered in PWI, because if PWI had no noobs, it wouldn't be overpowered."
Clearly, as of May 2013, PWI has undergeared noobs in it.

You take Purify completely out of context in this. If everyone WAS endgame, sure, you would be valid. Unfortunately, for us, we know that this will never be the case, and there shall always be noobs. Purify is overpowered because of the current situation in PWI.

F. How are Zanryu's opinions irrelevant? More importantly, how are someone's opinions irrelevant if they do not possess endgame gear?

You said it yourself in your own youtube channel. Many people on the server simply "faceroll", and yet they might be endgame. Are their opinions more important than someone who can comprehend and analyze endgame PvP, despite them never having endgame gear themselves?

I will always, personally, listen to someone's opinion if they can comprehend the issue. Clearly, many others and myself can comprehend this even better than some people at endgame. Why should we be ignored? If this discussion is scholarly, then the answer is clear: Yes, our voices are just as equal to yours if our knowledge and our understanding is equal to yours.

I apologize for the fact that I'm unable to simplify any further, but Purify is obviously a complex and sensitive issue.

Adroit - Lost City wrote: »

A. Describing how the proc works is not an argument for it being OP.

B. Describing how the proc works is not an argument for it being OP.

C. Purify allows casters to kite, not to constantly tank. A HA class can still take several opponents, it may not matter if 2-3 people are hitting a BM or barb.. they can continue pushing through and doing their job (i.e. get into the fray taking damage while still being able to stun/DD etc). A purify caster might escape to live another day with those same 2-3 opponents, but they are forced to run/kite to safety instead of doing damage. Also there seems to be a misconception that getting a proc is essentially a 5 second immune, which it certainly is not. I'd say that a majority of my deaths occur right after a proc, getting a proc with charm on cd and 8k hp left is not a get out of jail free card.. a couple ranged r9rr +12 hits and I could easily drop (and often times do). Anyway, it hasn't reversed the roles, the barbs/bms are still running into the fray doing their thing, and casters are still forced to kite.. they just have another tool to help them do that.

D. Encouraging noobs to learn how to play is a good thing, not a bad thing imo.

E. I don't think that there is any obligation or even be realistic for the devs to try to "balance" people of different gear levels. I don't think the term "balance" even makes sense in this context.. so saying that it is unbalanced for one r9rr to take on 20 lesser geared is a meaningless statement to me.

F. His opinions are irrelevant on end game pvp because he has never experienced it. I didn't say that all of his opinions are invalid ("opinions" is really the wrong word here, he has made several claims that are demonstrably wrong), but many of the things he has said relating to end game pvp are very misinformed. (I've pointed out a couple of them.. almost hate to point them all out, if he ever does reach end game and re-reads his own posts in this thread he'd be horrified how noob he sounds). Yes, if your "knowledge and understanding" is equal to mine, your opinions on this matter would certainly have the same weight, but I don't believe this is the case (you can't have the same knowledge/understanding of end game pvp as me without ever experiencing end game pvp..)

I am convinced you either have a bias that you are self aware of but not one you will admit to, or that you are blinded or ignorant in some way I can't key in to... I'm actually not intending that statement to be insulting so please don't take it that way but I am at a loss.

He couldn't have been any more concise and clear, your arguments are counters of our counters which both of us are repeating, so I am just going to agree to disagree and wait for the poll.

I and many others feel as though your rebuttals are unsatisfactory, as you likely think the same of ours I imagine. I do however feel though that the more intellectual people are anti-purify and that even you should recognize the supporters as being primarily imbeciles... and perhaps that says something..

Meh. ** it.

I think we can agree that these two posts I quoted accurately summarize the whole of this thread from both sides.

SIDE NOTE:
Ironically, the character "Brilliance" is a f-cking ret-ard and I hearby propose that we all purposefully ignore pretty much everything they say hence forth.

Tsyn - Raging Tide

Snow.

Kniraven - Lost City wrote: »

SIDE NOTE:
Ironically, the character "Brilliance" is a f-cking ret-ard and I hearby propose that we all purposefully ignore pretty much everything they say hence forth.

Let me have some fun first.

Brillance - Raging Tide wrote: »

A purify spell, proc or anything else will not 'save' someone.

Go view Adroit's PvP videos, and watch how many times he was saved by Purify when both genie and apoth were on CD. He survived where, without it, he couldn't have.

I claimed it is not the reason an undergeared player will never kill an R9T3 +12 JosD caster, which is not the same as any old caster.

Once again completely ignoring everything that's been said.

You yourself claim somehow a purify proc will "avoid the killing blow". You mean like dodgeball or something? Proc purify, released, body shifts spontaneously away from killing blows? I honestly think you are giving it way more credit than it deserves, but whatever.

Purify gives the ability to get away before the killing blow even gets close. Purify renders casters as basically "you can't touch this" characters. If you can't hold something in range, you can't attack them; If you can't attack, you can't kill.

You can suggest to the Devs to tweak the proc if you like, based on the QQ's of a couple players. That's your choice. I hope for the players of this game, it turns out to be a good one. Won't effect me, in case that's your motivation for feeding words into my mouth, lol. I has a cool and groovy plain old R8 wand. b:chuckle

There you go. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Even Zanryu has personally gone up against Purify users; I'm betting, that as an R8 weapon player, you just get 1shotted before you can see the true implications.

If you try to question my gear, and thus my PvP experience, I will either laugh or facebrick.

Will you be asking them to tweak a clerics purify spell and a mystic's proc for the same reason?

They both have counters. Cleric Purifies: Just re CC, cause they haven't run far yet and don't have antistun. Falling Petals: Just keep CCing.

So caster's cannot ever run the flag...*reflects on her comment that she doesn't care if she goes to NW or not, lol*

So if you've never gone to NW, how do you know about Purify? I don't see you in PvP on RT.

Will you be asking the devs to fix every undergeared Sage Mystic's AS too, since it is broken when facing higher geared players, or are you only concerned with 2 melee players?

Undergeared mystic is undergeared: Aka, 1shot, no problem.

Then you suggest TW factions for undergeared players should kick them or something?

?

Lol, where are R9T3 BMs being punished?? Omg, poor lil thingies aren't they?

?

Since you responded to my posts so very condescendingly and aggressively, while interpreting my words any old way you wish, and making your own story out of what I have said completely, I must confess I have serious concerns as to your motivation.

We're replying with the respect that a player of your knowledge, experience, and debate ability deserves.

Have I annoyed the mighty, all-knowing and powerful you recently, or something? Or, is this your current demeanor toward everyone? *looks around thread*

That is called schizophrenia. I assure you there is no one else looking over your shoulder.

Brillance - Raging Tide

Tsyn - Raging Tide wrote: »

Snow.

Sunshine, Im replying to Venus - do you speak for her? Wouldn't surprise me - I'm just asking. >.<