Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?

Zsw - Dreamweaver

Maelael - Heavens Tear wrote: »

I was talking multis....3-5. Duo it's like super easy to get 5 in. And thats clearing 98% of the instance. Just gotta know your class. I'd say its hard for a vit barb, but I did it on my Barb solo and cleared 4 (boss took WAY too long with a +7 R8r def level hammer). I even know of savvy not well geared clerics who can solo 3-5 in 15.

In terms of speed runs to frogs, its a level of "So easy, you could do it while the game is uninstalled" with the right genie and pots given how the mobs reset.

I soloed 3 in TT99 +5 on that BM, and just couldn't find a toon to open a 4th with 2 minutes left. I think I was clearing 75%ish of the zone. (3 total Pulls, wasnt paying attention to resets). For Seekers it's derp level easy.



....If you're walking them and stopping for tacos along the way, sure. Holy path and my run skills will get me all the way to the end. Boss takes like 20-30 seconds to drop, and the frogs are one aoe.

Ah. Well you are better at me in PvE then.

From my personal experience, I have never been able to do 98% pulls in my non-r9 build on my sin and still get 5 runs in :x Maybe it's easier as BM, Barb or Seeker, but I never tried it personally.

Levantica - Raging Tide

Only back to city will take 60 seconds per run + mobs there slow you and freeze you and even if you have vacuity, you cant run all instance with just 1 vacuity. Teleport and talk again with npc will take half of min to. Sorry i'm not buying it but nice if is true b:pleased

ogunernile

Krisnda wrote: »

In lieu of the other thread about hypers being disabled in frost, I'm deciding to make a poll.

Now, yes V4l mentioned that the change is a bug and will most likely be fixed, but I want to see what the community wants (even though I know that most poll are kindsa rigged here, I'll do it anyway).

"If you guys want it to stay, then you'd better show your support strongly and loudly"

I'm changing the poll in order to add lv restriction since that also seems to be a popular option.

Sorry to have you guys re-vote



Edit: I'm actually leaning more towards the idea of having them lv restricted rather than just outright disabling hypers on fc.

HERES MY IDEA:

why not have two levels of FC like you did for aeu

the first level would be boss/quest based xp and requires the player to defeat each boss

the second level would run like a repeatable pv with op mobs you cant stealth past and some crazy bosses thrown in the mix to keep you on your toes.

that way everyone wins...no power leveling until 101..but by then you would have learnt the game.

Bloom - Heavens Tear

Poll is confusing > I picked 'No' for 'No don't allow hypers' until I re-read the title a dozen times.. wonder how many other people mis-voted.

It isn't so much the simple fact of hypering FF that I dislike as much as the attitude that comes along with it. From a few WCs this morning, there are plvlers who are all QQing over 'how will we make money now'. But that's just the point - plvling doesn't MAKE money, it just takes it from other people, notably lower levels who really can't afford to pay your exhorbitant plvl fees in the first place. Especially now lower levels struggle even more to make money with the DQ price drop, they need their money for gear, skills, repairs - not paying some **** to get them some exp.

You MAKE money by doing things like getting high level DQ drops or doing BHs, which produce coins from NPCs rather taking them from other players. Or at very least market things that other 100+s need who actually have coins to spend (like NW tokens, cube pages, gold TT mats, etc etc) instead of taking money from the poor.

If you're a lower level char who needs to level up, there's lots of ways. I have 9 lv 102+ chars and never hypered any of them.
1) Do quests (they bumped up the exp rewards on quests a lot you know...)
2) At 30-90 do CS
3) At 40+ do BHs and blue/purple divine Qs
4) At 40+ (I think?) park char in realm of reflection overnight
5) At 70+ do WQ - 100-300k exp
6) At 90+ do cube - 1m exp
7) At 95+ do morai dailies
8) At 99+ (or whenever you can get a squad to take you) do full RB - 2.2m exp

KaiMasaki - Dreamweaver

I have an idea. If we can no longer use hyper in FC, thats fine, but why do the mobs in most instances give little to no exp? (delta anyone "Gained 1 EXP"). It's not only the instances, what about normal mobs outside? lv110 mobs in heaven giving like 500-700 exp each and yet lv90 mobs in the normal map give 300-400, its not really that much when you consider the amount of exp you need to get from lv100-105. If the higher level monsters gave more of an exp reward, people would be more inclined to grind on them and in turn begin to use all the places on the map that at the moment are unused by player except for a brief time if they happen to have a quest there, especially when mobs are around 100k+ hp (mobs in the public quest area anyone: 2m hp mob = 430 exp).

I do not disagree that daily quest are nice exp but telling people to level just with these quests and locking them into a routine that gets boring fast is not really that good for the people who have a lot of time to play, for example 6-12 hours per day and will be finished with all daily quests in the first 30 mins.

In closing i think feel that everyone should be allowed to play however they want and by doing what every they find fun, i know its shocking but some people actually enjoy doing 10x FC runs per day at 3-5m exp per run. But in reality it feels like we are slowly having our choice taken away from us how we are able level up, and being forced to follow a routine involving roughly 1 hour of gameplay like this to get any decent exp:

log in -> do dailies for 30-45 mins -> do PV for 15 mins -> go afk in realm of reflection -> log off.


EDIT: On a side note, i feel that if FC hypers are left disabled or a level requirement is introduced it is unfair to the people that were relying on that as a method of leveling or even built a toon based on just to do this instance since its been a part of the game for so long and so many people have already use it to get to 100+.

Just so you can understand how i feel about this allow my to give a real world example. It can be compared to what happened in the UK when the legal age to purchase tobacco changed from 16 to 18. Those who started at 16 and are now 18+ are unaffected, but those that are 16 are suddenly forced to change.
In PWI changing the hypers in FC wont really affect the people who used FC to level and are now lv100+, but those who are lower than 100 and currently using FC are suddenly forced to level up by a strict routine of daily quests

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Ah, but that would require doing things like Bounty Hunter, roll call, cube of fate... You'd actually have to play the game in order to reflect regularly.

Not true at all. Well, skipping the roll call one would be stupid, since it requires absolutely zero effort, but even still, even if you did choose to skip it, 18 gold per day (less if essences are on sale) will get you a full 12 hours of deep reflection. You could literally never leave the reflection zone, just keep charging zen and buying brilliant essences and crafting the radiant shards.

It would cost an obscene amount of money, but for people who have the money to throw at it, it's completely doable.

Levantica - Raging Tide

Bloom - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Poll is confusing > I picked 'No' for 'No don't allow hypers' until I re-read the title a dozen times.. wonder how many other people mis-voted.

It isn't so much the simple fact of hypering FF that I dislike as much as the attitude that comes along with it. From a few WCs this morning, there are plvlers who are all QQing over 'how will we make money now'. But that's just the point - plvling doesn't MAKE money, it just takes it from other people, notably lower levels who really can't afford to pay your exhorbitant plvl fees in the first place. Especially now lower levels struggle even more to make money with the DQ price drop, they need their money for gear, skills, repairs - not paying some **** to get them some exp.

You MAKE money by doing things like getting high level DQ drops or doing BHs, which produce coins from NPCs rather taking them from other players. Or at very least market things that other 100+s need who actually have coins to spend (like NW tokens, cube pages, gold TT mats, etc etc) instead of taking money from the poor.

If you're a lower level char who needs to level up, there's lots of ways. I have 9 lv 102+ chars and never hypered any of them.
1) Do quests (they bumped up the exp rewards on quests a lot you know...)
2) At 30-90 do CS
3) At 40+ do BHs and blue/purple divine Qs
4) At 40+ (I think?) park char in realm of reflection overnight
5) At 70+ do WQ - 100-300k exp
6) At 90+ do cube - 1m exp
7) At 95+ do morai dailies
8) At 99+ (or whenever you can get a squad to take you) do full RB - 2.2m exp

I laugh with tears b:cryb:laughb:cry

likelife2013

Krisnda wrote: »

In lieu of the other thread about hypers being disabled in frost, I'm deciding to make a poll.

Now, yes V4l mentioned that the change is a bug and will most likely be fixed, but I want to see what the community wants (even though I know that most poll are kindsa rigged here, I'll do it anyway).

"If you guys want it to stay, then you'd better show your support strongly and loudly"

I'm changing the poll in order to add lv restriction since that also seems to be a popular option.

Sorry to have you guys re-vote



Edit: I'm actually leaning more towards the idea of having them lv restricted rather than just outright disabling hypers on fc.

No.

Today I am LvL 85 but for a limited level would stop selling spots where I would get the money when max level?
If you change the city of frost, we need something else to farm.
I'd be bored to 100 + bh only to have some money

I come from Brazil to say no
Sorry for the bad english

Maelael - Heavens Tear

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Ah. Well you are better at me in PvE then.

From my personal experience, I have never been able to do 98% pulls in my non-r9 build on my sin and still get 5 runs in :x Maybe it's easier as BM, Barb or Seeker, but I never tried it personally.

It is on an HA class, the pdef and hp goes a long way. Sin advantage is the run skills, however they don't have the AoEs or defenses to really survive the larger pulls well.

And I wouldn't say better, just doing it for a long time when gear availability is no where near on the level we have now. Ah, the old FF pulls...

Levantica - Raging Tide wrote: »

Only back to city will take 60 seconds per run + mobs there slow you and freeze you and even if you have vacuity, you cant run all instance with just 1 vacuity. Teleport and talk again with npc will take half of min to. Sorry i'm not buying it but nice if is true b:pleased

You can clear it in about 60-120 seconds, and who said anything about needing vacuity each run? Slow is avoidable/purify-able with holy path, BMs and Sins get antistun run skills, and the freeze doesn't land if you're outta range (nor do all mobs do it and you only really need to avoid it for the first two areas).

Holy path - Will of Bod - Holy Path - Holy Path worked well for me the last time I did a quick run to boss. Last big pull I did with a barb all I did was antistun with vac and triumph through it in cat form. Takes 60 seconds for that pot to refresh.

It's doable, you just need a bit of skill, timing, and some luck. Regardless 3-5 is a pretty efficient set of runs depending on your gearing.

Bloom - Heavens Tear wrote: »

5) At 70+ do WQ - 100-300k exp
6) At 90+ do cube - 1m exp
7) At 95+ do morai dailies
8) At 99+ (or whenever you can get a squad to take you) do full RB - 2.2m exp

Ahahahahaahahahahahaahhahahahaha *gasp* hahahahahaahahahahaahahaha. Full RB runs take 1-2 hours and aren't even half the exp you get outta one 30 minute FF run. Surprised you didn't mention base quest exp as a "good" exp method.

Psymal - Dreamweaver

#Cut4FC
It hurts, but we have to be STRONG! b:sad

AliceAdams - Lost City

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

I am curious how killing mobs help you succeed more than getting FC runs.

Oh, and whats the point of playing the game if you're gonna afk level for 12 hours a day?

Grinding mobs will help you learn your toon better than letting someone else kill everything for you while you sit there contemplating your navel. The coin and item drops will help you level skills and get your gear. It's also infinitely cheaper. 1.5mil per frost vs. free grinding that makes you money.

And honestly? I'm generally afk for 12 hours a day anyway. There's this thing called sleep that I've vaguely heard of. And I get up and eat breakfast and take care of stuff around the house. Also people work, so they can reflect while they're gone. As I said, you still have to do regular BH runs to get enough shards to reflect on a regular basis. This will be good for teaching people squad dynamics, and how to effectively play their toons.

You can get 7 shards a day I think. 3 from BH, 2 from roll call, one from world quest, one from cube of fate.

100+ take off a bh shard and add a morai shard.

ionfour

Restrict to 85+!

coy0te

Please keep hypers out of fc or set to a high lvl so ppl will learn how to use their skills/class

Flamespirit - Dreamweaver

Umm just to be clear while on the poll and looking at the heading it says
Disable hypers in frost, yes, no or LV restricted?

I voted NO as in do not disable. Btw so did all my friends who I told to come vote.

plusonepostcount

Zsw - Dreamweaver wrote: »

No. Hypers should not be disabled.

I see little to no benefits to disable hypers.

1. There is little to no support for mid-game activity. Nation Wars, PvP, TW, Warsong, Lunar, TT, etc etc are all end game 100+ activities. All this will do is make it harder for people to catch up to those who are already 100+.

2. Most classes do not required people to be good at their class to survive PvE. PvE is extremely easy to begin with. While it would be nice to have clerics that can heal properly, the abundance of APS DDs nowadays means that DPH based and low DPS classes such as pure dex archers and wizards can simply auto attack/spam gush/pyrogram and still get away with it.

3. Doing BH and killing mobs do NOT make you better at PvP. This game is largely PvP focused end game. When you are full r9rr +12 and fully jaded, there is nothing challenging about PvE. It is completely unnecessary to spend hours killing mobs when most of the knowledge will be useless end game. You will never need to stunlock a mob to kill it. Mobs do not crit, do not heal, have very limited skills, and most do not even need to be kited.

4. There is nothing wrong with powerleveling. If you suspect someone is powerleveled, do not squad with them. Simple as that. Decent players WILL learn their classes. If not, then they are free kills in TW and good points for NW. So Whats the problem anyway? For example, I power leveled my Assassin from level 7x. However, I have yet to run into anyone who really have a problem with that fact.

5. This DECREASE PWI's PROFITS. One of the main reason for low levels to cashshop nowadays is to buy hyper exp stones! Disabling this completely takes away that reason.

6. This creates a new dead instance. Do we really want more dead instances?

7. This will not in anyway help bring in more players. There is no correlation between the number of people hypering versus the number of people joining the game. If you have 10 people who joined the game today, regardless whether 9 or 0 of them decide to hyper to 100 sometime down their lives, there would still be only 10 people who joined the game today.

8. This would discourage people from leveling alts. There is a fair number of people who enjoy leveling alts through the lower levels, and then hyper them up for the later levels. This in turn would mean that there will be LESS people doing BH for the lower levels! Additionally, this would further result in a Decrease of Profits for PWI. Less people leveling alts means less characters to spend money on, which in turn means less reasons to be cashshopping!

9. For some classes, there is no efficient way for level 100s to level to 101! Doing phoenix valley solo requires excellent gears, and that is extremely hard to acquire for a level 100. Therefore, FC is really the only efficient way.

err first and foremost they dont make money off of hypers in the boutique anyhow why spend 80 silver for 2 hypers when you could sell that 1 gold for 2 mil and buy about 20 hypers from someone else? so your point that they lose profit is moot there is no profit from hypers their profit mainly comes from packs/orbs/charms and so on.

I didn't touch frost till 80+ on my toons and even then it was for farming gear theres still many viable ways to lvl up without hypering big rooms 10x a day the fact of the matter is the power lvling in the game has eliminated the vast majority of the game itself most players that are new dont end up staying and theres very few new players as it is not everyone wants to rush to end game to just pvp in nw and tw. I would actually look forward to making another toon and lvling it if there were actually people outside on the world map to play and lvl with at the moment though there isn't and hasn't been for a long time and its rare if you can even find it.

AliceAdams - Lost City

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

Not true at all. Well, skipping the roll call one would be stupid, since it requires absolutely zero effort, but even still, even if you did choose to skip it, 18 gold per day (less if essences are on sale) will get you a full 12 hours of deep reflection. You could literally never leave the reflection zone, just keep charging zen and buying brilliant essences and crafting the radiant shards.

It would cost an obscene amount of money, but for people who have the money to throw at it, it's completely doable.

I can't honestly see people spending 125 bucks a week to level up one character.

But that's just me. For that kinda money you could go out in the real world and have scary real life fun.b:shocked

Abonimus - Raging Tide

Vasanta - Lost City wrote: »

playerbase asked to make a new nw time slot for EU players too, but they ignore us all b:surrender

P.S. even my old post about nw was deletedb:angry

Ye totaly forget that idea.

Aint like we all love to get up at 2-3 in the morning to play NW...

Salari - Raging Tide

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

Grinding mobs will help you learn your toon better than letting someone else kill everything for you while you sit there contemplating your navel. The coin and item drops will help you level skills and get your gear. It's also infinitely cheaper. 1.5mil per frost vs. free grinding that makes you money.

And honestly? I'm generally afk for 12 hours a day anyway. There's this thing called sleep that I've vaguely heard of. And I get up and eat breakfast and take care of stuff around the house. Also people work, so they can reflect while they're gone. As I said, you still have to do regular BH runs to get enough shards to reflect on a regular basis. This will be good for teaching people squad dynamics, and how to effectively play their toons.

You can get 7 shards a day I think. 3 from BH, 2 from roll call, one from world quest, one from cube of fate.

100+ take off a bh shard and add a morai shard.

That would be a good answer for a different question but does not even remotely answer the one he asked. fcc is great for learning squad dynamics, just like beta and delta.

krysstopher

I am new to this game and as a newbie i know how fast a character can lvl up because ive seen first hand that a person can create a toon and have it lvled to 99 in about 3 weeks. I have had my share of doing an fc and they are fun but can also get expensive if that is all you do. I have 3 characters, a lvl 84 wiz, a lvl74 bm and a lvl33 sin. I have worked my butt off to get these guys to that lvl for one reason. I wanted to learn my character as much as possible. I am tired of seeing newbies hyper through to lvl 100+ in about a month and not know how their toons work. My 100% vote is to put a lvl restriction on hypers used in an fc. The lvl should be when a character reaches lvl 75. thanks for reading this. Pylarc Lvl 84 Wiz

TooLOVELY - Heavens Tear

Imo, the poll would be bias. The forum community =/= game community because majority of the players who play the game don't even check the forums.

I also voted no. I personally don't mind the FC babies.

Corallyne - Dreamweaver

I think the lvl restriction should be 80+ since 80 is about when you start FCing.

kimbap12

Miugre - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Wow, and a minute after I asked v4liance to do this.

Well then, allow me to cast the first vote for "Level Restricted." do.o

Level restricted is MUCH better than disabling hypers.

With the current content, it's extremely difficult to level alone from questing, BH, crazy stone, etc. I am currently working on a level 96 veno. Today I turned in 8 BHs, did guild base quests, morai dailies, and crazy stone. I got less than 10% experience added to my level. That only leaves questing. The extremely low amount of experience quests give upon completion does absolotely nothing to help you level up.


To be quite honest, if I cannot use frost to help gain levels for my higher toons, it's really tempting to spend less time on PWI. I don't mean that as a threat or anything, but if I can't see positive results for my hard work and the amount of time spent on here, then I'm likely to spend that time doing something else.

sireis

To be honest, its better with lvl restriction. I learned how to play my character, in FC , mainly.
Even im saying, that FC is good place to learn how to survive and test different combos out.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

AliceAdams - Lost City wrote: »

I can't honestly see people spending 125 bucks a week to level up one character.

But that's just me. For that kinda money you could go out in the real world and have scary real life fun.b:shocked

When I had "scary real life fun" I almost always spent way over $125 a week(end) and ended up feeling like **** when it was over with. b:surrenderb:shutupb:chuckle

It's not a financially reasonable option for most people, sure. But for people with lots of disposable income (merchants or people with good paying RL jobs), it is quite possible.

Either way, disabling hypers in frost is not the game-destroying apocalypse that some people seem to think it is. New players who didn't know about it won't miss it, and old players who really want 100 quickly will adapt and use other available methods to power their way up. The only problem with those other methods is that they don't promote squad play, and we would still end up with people at 100 who don't know how to play their class. In that case, I'd say the level restriction for FC would be a good idea.

rawkjawk

Many of us aps sins rely heavily upon an income of selling frost room. Who are we to decide if someone wants to power level or not. Much if not all of my income has been through selling frost and I have been a loyal customer to pw for over four years now and will admit that I have spent real money on this game. We can clearly use relativism ethics theory in this situation to understand that people will do things that other people clearly may not agree with but again whats the harm in someone power leveling? It will surely not end the world... also wether people would like to admit this or not but a majority of the games that I have played in the past and continue to play today exhibit some form of power leveling



~rawkjawk~ lost city

Abonimus - Raging Tide

TooLOVELY - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Imo, the poll would be bias. The forum community =/= game community because majority of the players who play the game don't even check the forums.

I also voted no. I personally don't mind the FC babies.

Exactly but ye ...

We've been redirected from a thread in which we talked about a bug in FC, to a new staff made thread undocumented changes again redirected by the staff to a biased poll.

I hope they take these comments into account more then they take those votes in the poll. Votes can be "set" and also manipulated easily by the staff/ forum moderators with higher power settings.

Majority of the population wont see this poll but the changes will still affect them as well. Both those thinking similar as i do and those thinking completely a different thing.

Annalyse - Heavens Tear

Having never used hypers, I can say it isn't difficult to get by without them.

That said, I recognize that the upper levels can slow down, and that can frustrate people. However, the new quests level you so fast at lower levels that there is no reason to need hypers then, so I voted for level restriction.

This could go two ways though, as far as what you are restricting. Did you mean restriction on FF, or on the hypers themselves? If it is on FF, I would have to say 75+, because that is when you get quests and it is hardly fair to make people wait ten levels to get rid of them. If it is the hypers themselves, I'd say 80+.

But it comes down to the fact that they don't like to waste time on big changes like writing in a level restriction, so you pretty much have to either go yes or no on this one if you actually want to petition for a change.

Cute_lil_sin - Archosaur

using in hypers even if your newer doesn't make a difference really? cause then if they buy gold and sell it they can just easily go zhen granted takes longer but still not much of a differenceb:chuckle

Massad - Harshlands

Right right right... lets lvl restrict the instance at 85 that you get a questline for at 75... Oh thats a smart move... Chances are all you people calling for 85 fced past that questline to even know about it and the 1 million or so exp reward for completing it.... Smooth move dumbassb:shutup


P.S. Bring back goons and all will be forgiven..... Thats right I said it come on

Beleni - Dreamweaver

Fail wrong thread