New skill & new pets-upgrades discussion

dupethefile

Mahabharatha - Archosaur wrote: »

Hmmm, I'm still a bit wondering about the inherited coefficients from the veno towards the pet, maybe someone can make it clearer.

So, let's take the dino, for example. According to ecatomb , he has:

> hp: 3420
> phys atk: 4478
> phys/mag res: 8361

According to the pwbr page with the stats for the new update, dino has Bonus :

> Atk. : 70%
> Res. : 20%
> HP : 20%
> Atk. level : 50%
> Res. level : 50%

Let's make ourselves a high level pure magic g16 veno, with budget refines/shards, nothing op: http://pwcalc.com/9ae79a7c6976c844

After evolution, will the dino have the following stats (as in initial pet stats with added bonus from veno) ?

> HP: 3429+ 1053= 4473
> atk: (no sure if they inherit from veno's mag attack or phys attack)
- if mag attack, then 4478+ 8751= 13229
- if phys attack, then 4478+ 889= 5267
> phys resist: 8361+ 600= 8961
> mag resist: 8361+ 2584= 10945

It's wrong. I will use your build http://pwcalc.com/9ae79a7c6976c844 and the dino. According with many searches posted a some time ago in this topic:

Atk = (Max weapon Magic attack + Magic Rings + Atkm add's + stones)x(Loyalty)x(Inherit Coeficient) + Pet Attack = (1567 + 2x97 + 2x32)x1.2x0.7 + 4478 = 6036.

Physical and Magical Res. are based on (Equipment + Res Adds + Stones)x(Inherit Coefficient). I didn't want to calculate this, but i want you know, first you have to sum all of Magical/Physical Resistance of Veno'sEquipment[/B]. Dont take the Magic/Physical Defense of Veno.

Hp= You have to remove the 5% hp bonus from the necklace, then multiply the (Veno Level)x(a constant number = 24).
Equation: (5268/1.05 -24x101)x0.2 + 4473 = 4991

Defense/Attack Level: (Veno's Defense/Attack Level)x(Inherit Coeffcient)
Def Lvl = 15x0.5 = 7~8
Atk Lvl= 20x0.5= 10

Desdi - Sanctuary

Complex maths @.@ I'm gonna to leave the experienced ones to deal with that xD

Either way, thanks for posting that up dupethefile. It's quite interesting. I'm curious to see how the legendary pets' stats will be and then there's the legendary pet skills too..so their overall defence and attack will have a pretty interesting boost.

Mahabharatha - Archosaur

dupethefile wrote: »

It's wrong. I will use your build http://pwcalc.com/9ae79a7c6976c844 and the dino. According with many searches posted a some time ago in this topic:

Atk = (Max weapon Magic attack + Magic Rings + Atkm add's + stones)x(Loyalty)x(Inherit Coeficient) + Pet Attack = (1567 + 2x97 + 2x32)x1.2x0.7 + 4478 = 6036.

Physical and Magical Res. are based on (Equipment + Res Adds + Stones)x(Inherit Coefficient). I didn't want to calculate this, but i want you know, first you have to sum all of Magical/Physical Resistance of Veno'sEquipment[/B]. Dont take the Magic/Physical Defense of Veno.

Hp= You have to remove the 5% hp bonus from the necklace, then multiply the (Veno Level)x(a constant number = 24).
Equation: (5268/1.05 -24x101)x0.2 + 4473 = 4991

Defense/Attack Level: (Veno's Defense/Attack Level)x(Inherit Coeffcient)
Def Lvl = 15x0.5 = 7~8
Atk Lvl= 20x0.5= 10

Thank you very much for the post, most illuminating! Really weird math will go into the pet evolution, complex and ... ummm complex lol.
Hmmm max magic attack of weapon means patakas, again, have an advantage, interesting.
Thank you and keep us posted! b:cute

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Do warding and slaying levels of equipment make any difference in pet inheritance?

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear

dupethefile wrote: »

It's wrong. I will use your build http://pwcalc.com/9ae79a7c6976c844 and the dino. According with many searches posted a some time ago in this topic:

Atk = (Max weapon Magic attack + Magic Rings + Atkm add's + stones)x(Loyalty)x(Inherit Coeficient) + Pet Attack = (1567 + 2x97 + 2x32)x1.2x0.7 + 4478 = 6036.

Physical and Magical Res. are based on (Equipment + Res Adds + Stones)x(Inherit Coefficient). I didn't want to calculate this, but i want you know, first you have to sum all of Magical/Physical Resistance of Veno'sEquipment[/B]. Dont take the Magic/Physical Defense of Veno.

Hp= You have to remove the 5% hp bonus from the necklace, then multiply the (Veno Level)x(a constant number = 24).
Equation: (5268/1.05 -24x101)x0.2 + 4473 = 4991

Defense/Attack Level: (Veno's Defense/Attack Level)x(Inherit Coeffcient)
Def Lvl = 15x0.5 = 7~8
Atk Lvl= 20x0.5= 10

Thank you very much for post. That's fair if they only use the base weapon value as that makes sure it helps everyone equally. (Wands will get the biggest advantage if its based off weapon mag attack, but eh...) I'm a little iffy on why they would only use the value of magic rings... wouldn't they use the value of any ring equipped? If they only use magic rings than that means they are going solely off of magic attack, which will make for some pretty awkward pet adds as even among AA venos magic attack is all over the place. Ofc gear values for defenses will be all over the place as well but that's a wait and see game as far as how that pans out. According to the numbers above, HP doesn't seem to be getting a huge boost, which is a shame.

Ofc if anyone knows me I'm comparing the numbers above for HA venos. If the formulas above hold true it looks like, in general, HA veno pets will have less att but will have more def and HP.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear wrote: »

Thank you very much for post. That's fair if they only use the base weapon value as that makes sure it helps everyone equally. (Wands will get the biggest advantage if its based off weapon mag attack, but eh...

Actually from what Dupe posted, wands come off worst, because their maximum magic attack value is lowest of the 4 magic weapon types.

Desdi - Sanctuary

I can see how HA Venomancers are going to have tankier pets and AA Venomancers will have attack-oriented pets. I was quite expecting that though since the pets are going to be affected by the gear choices.

It gives a variety on the pets, which is something nice, and Venomancers might have to consider pets in the future when it comes to their builds/choices. I'm curious to see how all this is going to affect the gameplay of Venomancers in both PvE and PvP.

Mayfly has a good question now; slaying and warding levels...are they going to be considered in the coefficient values? If yes, then will that be only for PvE? If not, then it kinda sucks and pretty much forces Venomancers not to opt for Morai gear.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

Does each element's resistance on each piece of gear get summed up with the physical resistance to determine pet's resistance inheritance, or is just the highest resistance from each piece used in the sum? If the former, AA venos are going to have evolved pets with higher resistances (while their HA sisters with refined armor will have evolved pets with higher HP than AA venos with equal refines.) If the latter, HA will have pets with higher resistances as well. Or are physical and elemental resistances figured separately, one applied to pet physical resistance, the other to pet magic resistance? I think more details are required to figure out what's what here.

As far as attack goes, both HA and AA should have pets with similar attack inheritance given the same weapons/refines; the difference would be in rings, with HA being slightly more likely to be wearing might rings.

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Actually from what Dupe posted, wands come off worst, because their maximum magic attack value is lowest of the 4 magic weapon types.

yep, you're right. Though the min-max variant might be taken into account as well which would give wand pets a more consistent standard attack while patakas will get higher and lower values, further influencing pet/weapon choices.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

Does each element's resistance on each piece of gear get summed up with the physical resistance to determine pet's resistance inheritance, or is just the highest resistance from each piece used in the sum? If the former, AA venos are going to have evolved pets with higher resistances (while their HA sisters with refined armor will have evolved pets with higher HP than AA venos with equal refines.) If the latter, HA will have pets with higher resistances as well. Or are physical and elemental resistances figured separately, one applied to pet physical resistance, the other to pet magic resistance? I think more details are required to figure out what's what here.

I'm confused about this... are you asking whether both defenses are taken into account for a single defense numeral accounting for both types of att def? Or are you asking whether phys def of gear x phy def coeficitnt = pet phys def, and mag def of gear x mag def coefficient = pet mag def?

The former doesn't make much sense in my opinion because then which value would you use? Or would you just take the average? Both ways are going to lead to problems as the high magic def of AA venos and high phys def of HA venos will lead to high def values no matter the pet, while if you take the averages, AA venos are going to come out worse for it as their phys def on AA gear is lower than mag def on HA gear.

Personally, I'm assuming its the latter as phys and elemental defense is already different on current pets and adding a coefficient to both values to take into account the venos values wouldn't be as difficult as writing new code for a combined defense value. This would also make gear and inherent coeficients more of a factor in choosing pets which (I'm hoping) is PWE's intention.

dupethefile

Repeated post.

dupethefile

First of all, I forget A information on the Resistence calculator:
(Gear + Stones + Res Adds + Necklace + Belt + Rings)x(Inherit Coefficient)

The Mag/Str/Dex points will not interfer in the calculator. Both AA/LA/HA venos can get a high physical and magical defense, and the pet will inherit this high defense. But the defense will not be the most important thing for a tanker/resistent pet, because after 10k def to increase 1% reduction it's very hard, ther herc already have a high defense, something like = 25k (85% damage reduction). The Defense Level and Attack Level will be the most important factor in this new system.

@Kizmet and Mayfly: The same inheritance value is used for both magical and physical defenses. But the Magic resistence is inherited from the Magical Resistance, and the physical from the physical.

About the Slaying and Wardering level, i think this will not be inherited.

The new stats with the inherit coeffcient, will not be so OP. The most important things are the new skills, mainly the exclusives and personlities skills, and the Atk/Def Lvl.
A R999+12 veno, the phoenix will have a atk aprox. = 8k without claw. With Natural Sinergy + Claw = 18k. Plus the atk levels of veno...

BungaSakura - Raging Tide

dupethefile wrote: »

It's wrong. I will use your build http://pwcalc.com/9ae79a7c6976c844 and the dino. According with many searches posted a some time ago in this topic:

Atk = (Max weapon Magic attack + Magic Rings + Atkm add's + stones)x(Loyalty)x(Inherit Coeficient) + Pet Attack = (1567 + 2x97 + 2x32)x1.2x0.7 + 4478 = 6036.

Physical and Magical Res. are based on (Equipment + Res Adds + Stones)x(Inherit Coefficient). I didn't want to calculate this, but i want you know, first you have to sum all of Magical/Physical Resistance of Veno'sEquipment[/B]. Dont take the Magic/Physical Defense of Veno.

Hp= You have to remove the 5% hp bonus from the necklace, then multiply the (Veno Level)x(a constant number = 24).
Equation: (5268/1.05 -24x101)x0.2 + 4473 = 4991

Defense/Attack Level: (Veno's Defense/Attack Level)x(Inherit Coeffcient)
Def Lvl = 15x0.5 = 7~8
Atk Lvl= 20x0.5= 10

Hei i still try to understand of the calculation, cause i wanna try to calculate w all my ets and my armor. So i have several question.

why u put for magic ring = 32?
what is attack add's +stone?

could u give me more explanation. thanks in advance.

Azura - Lost City

dupethefile wrote: »

It's wrong. I will use your build http://pwcalc.com/9ae79a7c6976c844 and the dino. According with many searches posted a some time ago in this topic:

Atk = (Max weapon Magic attack + Magic Rings + Atkm add's + stones)x(Loyalty)x(Inherit Coeficient) + Pet Attack = (1567 + 2x97 + 2x32)x1.2x0.7 + 4478 = 6036.

Physical and Magical Res. are based on (Equipment + Res Adds + Stones)x(Inherit Coefficient). I didn't want to calculate this, but i want you know, first you have to sum all of Magical/Physical Resistance of Veno'sEquipment[/B]. Dont take the Magic/Physical Defense of Veno.

Hp= You have to remove the 5% hp bonus from the necklace, then multiply the (Veno Level)x(a constant number = 24).
Equation: (5268/1.05 -24x101)x0.2 + 4473 = 4991

Defense/Attack Level: (Veno's Defense/Attack Level)x(Inherit Coeffcient)
Def Lvl = 15x0.5 = 7~8
Atk Lvl= 20x0.5= 10

So the pet's attack will draw from weapon's max attack, magic ring, and anything that increases magic attack, according to what you have researched. This made me wonder something: I have 4 rings atm. R8 ring, r9, and 2 sky covers. When I'm in the defensive I use sky covers. This ofc lowers my magic attack. And, when I go all out, I use both magic rings.

So will the pet's attack change as I change my rings in the middle of a battle? Also, in the future I will +12 my pataka, will that refine be reflected on my pet too, instantly? .

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

I'd guess it would only affect the pet at time of summoning, like mystic summons.

dupethefile

BungaSakura - Raging Tide wrote: »

Hei i still try to understand of the calculation, cause i wanna try to calculate w all my ets and my armor. So i have several question.

why u put for magic ring = 32?
what is attack add's +stone?

could u give me more explanation. thanks in advance.

32 is the value of Immaculate Sapphire Shard. The magic ring I put 97. The Attack adds are something like: http://pwcalc.com/10bfe2f4a2a8da82
Stone = Shards = Gems

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

So will the pet's attack change as I change my rings in the middle of a battle?

I agree with Mayfly, I think that the equipment will affect the pet only when you summon him.

Azura - Lost City wrote: »

Also, in the future I will +12 my pataka, will that refine be reflected on my pet too, instantly? .

Sure, the refine increase the max attack of pataka, so the pet attack will be increased.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

So for magic resistance inheritance, is that based on the sum of the equipment's metal, fire, earth, wood and water resistances, the average, the min or the max? Any idea?

dupethefile

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

So for magic resistance inheritance, is that based on the sum of the equipment's metal, fire, earth, wood and water resistances, the average, the min or the max? Any idea?

Hmm. Are you asking, for exmaple, a veno has 9k Fire Resistance and 8k Water Resistence?. In this case I don't know, because the pet does not have water,fire,earth... resistances, only Magic and Physical.

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

For example if the veno's equipment resistances sum up to 4k for fire, 5k for earth, water and metal, and 6k for wood, is the inheritance based on 4k + 5k + 5k + 5k + 6k (sum), (4k + 5k + 5k + 5k + 6k)/5 (average), 6k (max) or 4k (min)?

dupethefile

Mayfly - Dreamweaver wrote: »

For example if the veno's equipment resistances sum up to 4k for fire, 5k for earth, water and metal, and 6k for wood, is the inheritance based on 4k + 5k + 5k + 5k + 6k (sum), (4k + 5k + 5k + 5k + 6k)/5 (average), 6k (max) or 4k (min)?

Good question, I don't know.

Kiszmet - Heavens Tear

Has anyone tried to use physical rings in the calculator? I just don't see how using only the magical stat, at least for rings and ornaments anyways, to determine pet physical damage makes much sense to me. All your examples use only magic ornaments and magic stones, which make sense as that's what 95% of venos use, but physical damage is still part of the overall veno equation and currently all fox skills, save for fossil, use that to calculate their damage. (It would be interesting if they changed all fox damage over to be based on magic attack in the future like they did with Fossil Curse but that would require an entire rewrite of the equation and fox skill tree (200% fox weapon attack based off mag attack values f:stare)) Also, several rings give both bonuses, such as Seal of Eternal Solitude and the rank rings. In this case it would make sense to only use one but which stat would it decide to use, especially if there are further phys/magical adds further down the ring? If it's not specifically a "magic" type ring would it even take the +mag into consideration?

After all, mixed rings are fairly common across all classes, I'm sure PWE is aware of that fact (though I question whether they care, however I'm pretty sure they WILL care when all those R93s QQ if the damage isn't added from rank rings,( which are counted as "might" rings btw f:hehe )) and what about ornaments that do the same? You mentioned that the +5% HP of the HP neckies would not be included but what about the +mag +phys +resistances that also come with them, or by adds from the Jewelcraftsmen or the forges.

There's also the matter of runes, and seeker buffs, do they get included as well as they directly affect the weapons attributes? Even if the damage doesn't that still +ATT and DEF levels. If they do I may have to use mag attack runes to increase pet att for pet spikes... I know you said it's off the base weapon stats, but if the damage calculation from stones is included in pet attack then runes might be as well since they seem to work in the same way but are temporary.

Not Fretting here, just curious. All things considered though, if its only base values that get calculated then if we compare things like S3 weapons (mag attack 1316-1608 for S3 sword base no refine) and add 100 x 2 for 2 magic rings with .7 ratio that's about 140 pet attack that gets left out +/- effect with loyalty and stones. Considering the higher defense values of phys venos its not huge but can be something to think about.

EDIT: ALSO... if the adds are only calculated when the pet is first summoned that would be quite unbalanced for HA veno pets vs. AA veno pets since HA's could equip mag rings to summon the pet then switch back to phys rings after summon... hmmmm....

Desdi - Sanctuary

I was working on making a spreadsheet with the personality skills here but the PWBR link is not working anymore and I temporarily used google-translation from a chinese site but the translation is really messy and confusing (adds extra work for me since I need to re-write all the descriptions to make sense x.x).

Does anyone have another link from the PWBR channel or their forums? I'd like to finish up the spreadsheet so I can easily edit the names out with the PWI ones once we get the update.

evilf3n1x

Desdi - Sanctuary wrote: »

I was working on making a spreadsheet with the personality skills here but the PWBR link is not working anymore and I temporarily used google-translation from a chinese site but the translation is really messy and confusing (adds extra work for me since I need to re-write all the descriptions to make sense x.x).

Does anyone have another link from the PWBR channel or their forums? I'd like to finish up the spreadsheet so I can easily edit the names out with the PWI ones once we get the update.

Hello, the PWBR Forum is in maintenance. Tomorrow, this maintenance will finish.

Desdi - Sanctuary

evilf3n1x wrote: »

Hello, the PWBR Forum is in maintenance. Tomorrow, this maintenance will finish.

Thanks for the notice, in that case I'll just wait b:laugh

Crazy_Roxy - Raging Tide

So does anyone know when new pet looks come out since Nw's came out on September.06 in china and for PWI Nov.16th and the new pet looks came out in Apr.02 does that mean wed get it July 12thb:puzzledb:cuteb:chuckle

Mayfly - Dreamweaver

It comes out when it comes out. Until PWE announces a date we won't know more.

Desdi - Sanctuary

Bumping this to keep it around.
No news yet but looks like we've been getting bits of this upgrade in our patches lately.

We've got some of the personality skill lines translated and some other bits like "can be evolved to" text added to pet eggs.

DeffyNature - Archosaur

I want it to come already Q_Q !

Untamed_pain - Archosaur

me to ive been waiting!

Azura - Lost City

I guess all is left now is to wait...

DeffyNature - Archosaur

WTB Chinese-speaking friends to translate stuff for me :< .