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Main Discussion about NW pricing and effect on game

Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
edited March 2013 in Nation Wars
Here's a short recap of what we know about the Nation War reward system:

-Exchange values can be found here, courtesy of Asterelle.

-Each war has a set amount of tokens that is to be divided among all participants. This amount does not seem to change.

-You basically fight to win a share of this amount. Your share increases based on your personal score as well as being on a winning nation. Whether there is any difference in being in the nation that comes in second or fourth is unsure (need info).

-This means that as the amount of participants increases, individual rewards are lower (more people fighting over a piece of the same cake, basically).


So this means a set amount of tokens get ''put into the economy'' every week, but it still depends on the amount of people willing to sell them in the form of raptures, cannies or warsoul materials (the rest doesn't seem that popular among buyers and the more uncommon R8R materials are bound).

The impact on the economy seems very clear. Even though the token influx from the past 2 wars still wasn't enough to meet the demands on certain servers (raptures are still at 500-600k on HT) due to people buying as many raps/cannies to recast their R9 sets, which they will all have achieved in a few weeks if no changes are made, after which prices will drop drastically.
People are also unsure about whether any changes will be made to decrease the rewards, further fueling the buying frenzy.

Speculations on how the game will evolve around this are divided, to say the least. What do you think?
Post edited by Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear on
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Comments

  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If I remember correctly, some thread suggested you could get ~500 mats per event. That would make 500 cannies/raps... That event would make nirvana obsolete after the first time <.<. Unless, of course, nirvy droprate is increased by 10x or smth.
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  • _Skai_ - Raging Tide_Skai_ - Raging Tide Posts: 3,407 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    @Hide You mean 2500 cannies or 500 raps.
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  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If I remember correctly, some thread suggested you could get ~500 mats per event. That would make 500 cannies/raps... That event would make nirvana obsolete after the first time <.<. Unless, of course, nirvy droprate is increased by 10x or smth.

    Any word on the tradability of the crafted raps/cannies?

    If they are bound, then the majority of non-american players (that can't attend the wars due to their timezone) get shafted big time.
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  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    @Hide You mean 2500 cannies or 500 raps.

    Oh damn, I just looked at rap, didnt notice cannies were 5 a piece...Oh well, suppose R92nd cast just got cheap, though I expected it done via summerwind token sale at 100g a piece.

    And as far as tradeability goes, I doubt the cannies/raps would make items bind even if they were. But we`ll see, though I just got itching to ditch gearing my sin further and just start focusing on R9 for archer.
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  • BringinDeath - ArchosaurBringinDeath - Archosaur Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Some of you browsing the new forge might have noticed the following recipes.

    This made me wonder if Nirvana might become an obsolete instance soon if these Supply Tokens come at a decent rate from Nation Wars (and if the resulting items are tradeable).

    Seeing the amount of tokens needed for some stuff seems to suggest you should be able to get at least 100 tokens every war (or at least every week), but I guess we won't know until friday.

    Any thoughts on this?

    Well if that happens & Nirvana is shut down, it would prove that PWE doesn't care about PvE players and is pushing more & more towards PvP & Nation Wars, as how are PvE players that don't, or don't get the chance to, play Nation wars supposed to be able to obtain cannies/Raps other than buying them or doing Nirvy runs?
  • supertroyman1supertroyman1 Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If I remember correctly, some thread suggested you could get ~500 mats per event. That would make 500 cannies/raps... That event would make nirvana obsolete after the first time <.<. Unless, of course, nirvy droprate is increased by 10x or smth.

    lol i have serious doughts that the rate of the items u can get for those is anywhere near high enough for 500 mats. even with amazing participation
  • Arjunro - Heavens TearArjunro - Heavens Tear Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Well if that happens & Nirvana is shut down, it would prove that PWE doesn't care about PvE players and is pushing more & more towards PvP & Nation Wars, as how are PvE players that don't, or don't get the chance to, play Nation wars supposed to be able to obtain cannies/Raps other than buying them or doing Nirvy runs?

    I don't see them shutting it down
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I don't see them shutting it down

    I don't see many people bothering with it if raptures drop below 100k, though.
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Let's just wait and see before we make assumptions and theories.
    I do hope Nirvana won't be affected too much by it indeed though. Whilst Nirvana is not my main source of income, there's a lot of friends and faction mates that rely a lot on Nirvana (both caster and regular) and I wouldn't want them screwed over.
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  • BringinDeath - ArchosaurBringinDeath - Archosaur Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    agreed. Alot of hard work for people for nothing.. I don't think PWE would be THAT callous
  • Sheswes - Heavens TearSheswes - Heavens Tear Posts: 1,216 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    well if u checked it right u noticed it has 2 opts: 5 cannies and 1 rap per 1 supply token - which is probaly a BS and it wont work
    but the 2nd opt says u get:
    1 canny per 8 supply tokens +150k coins
    1 rapture per 60 supply tokens +1m coins

    so yea nirvana wont die fast i believe

    EDIT:
    on the other hand the forge says canny and rap requires only 1 supply token - so yea now im kinda confused
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  • IllumiZoldyk - SanctuaryIllumiZoldyk - Sanctuary Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If raptures were to drop to around 100k it would mean making G15 and G16 weapons would be too easy, not to mention R9 recast would be very easy to obtain. I do not foresee this happening to be quite honest with you.
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  • Hexalot - DreamweaverHexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    As a mercenary answering the call for Nation Wars, players are rewarded a currency called Supply Tokens. With these, players will be able to exchange for materials to craft Rank 8 gear upgrades, Warsoul weapons, exclusive Tomes, and Uncanny/Rapture Crystals (for Rank 9 Ascended gear).

    See that part in red ?

    How much more of an explanation do you need to understand that the Cannys and Raps gained from Nation War is to be tied to the manufacturing of R9 recast gear only ???

    So don't expect to be farming all these Raps and Cannys for dirt cheap upgrades to Nirvana G16. This of course means that the Nirvana dungeon isn't going anywhere either.
  • truekossytruekossy Posts: 7,021 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    And your point being?

    Unless it's completely separate from regular Uncannies and Raptures, people will use it for whatever they feel like within whatever constraints it has. If it's untradable, we'll probably have a lot more G13/G15 Nirvana cheaply. If it can be traded, the regular Nirvana market will be heavily affected (think Aurora agent style).

    Either way, we won't be able to say 100% until we've actually gone through this the first time and confirmed various things for ourselves.
  • Hexalot - DreamweaverHexalot - Dreamweaver Posts: 871 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    truekossy wrote: »
    And your point being?

    Unless it's completely separate from regular Uncannies and Raptures, people will use it for whatever they feel like within whatever constraints it has. If it's untradable, we'll probably have a lot more G13/G15 Nirvana cheaply. If it can be traded, the regular Nirvana market will be heavily affected (think Aurora agent style).

    Either way, we won't be able to say 100% until we've actually gone through this the first time and confirmed various things for ourselves.

    Seriously ???

    You think PWE put "for Rank 9 Ascended gear" next to Uncannys/Raps because they felt it would just look COOL there ?

    I think its fairly obvious that these nirvana mats are going to be different than the regular ones but hey... as you said, we'll soon see.
  • IllumiZoldyk - SanctuaryIllumiZoldyk - Sanctuary Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Seriously ???

    You think put PWE put "for Rank 9 Ascended gear" next to Uncannys/Raps because they felt it would just look COOL there ?

    I think its fairly obvious that these nirvana mats are going to be different than the regular ones but hey... as you said, we'll soon see.

    @ Hex, I understand where you're coming from but don't you think that if people obtain those materials they should have the option on what to use it for ? I mean, regardless of possible gear upgrade materials have never been bound towards one specific piece of equipment.

    Now, lets take ultimate substances for example... if these were to become bound to say for example TT gear, people wouldn't be able to open TT instances anymore... see what I mean ? My point is lets just have a look first before jumping to conclusions bud..
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    truekossy wrote: »
    Either way, we won't be able to say 100% until we've actually gone through this the first time and confirmed various things for ourselves.

    What kossy said. We have to wait and see the in-game effects/consequences before we can judge.
    I have to agree though... I can't see Nirvana dropping so much all of a sudden considering they added G16 not too long ago but yeah...we'll see.
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  • IllumiZoldyk - SanctuaryIllumiZoldyk - Sanctuary Posts: 58 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    *Takes out Pokeball*

    Des, back in your ball woman :P
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  • Desdi - SanctuaryDesdi - Sanctuary Posts: 8,680 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    *Takes out Pokeball*

    Des, back in your ball woman :P


    b:cry but..but...
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  • NestFreemark - Raging TideNestFreemark - Raging Tide Posts: 104 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If canny and rap were so easy to get, and Nirvana stopped being worth running, that would mean it's extemely easy to get the gear. PWE wouldn't take so much money out of their own pockets...
  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Seriously ???

    You think PWE put "for Rank 9 Ascended gear" next to Uncannys/Raps because they felt it would just look COOL there ?

    I think its fairly obvious that these nirvana mats are going to be different than the regular ones but hey... as you said, we'll soon see.

    Hanging on PWE PR announcement, which is mostly aimed towards casual players and is intentionally vague - I consider that quite weak argument for restricted crystals. But we`ll see, I heavily doubt they are restricted though.
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  • Ripokeke - SanctuaryRipokeke - Sanctuary Posts: 154 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    well, they screwed me over once when they put mysterious chips in boutique at dirt cheap price.

    i'm not gonna get screwed again, just sold watever cannies i have at hand today. b:surrender
  • Deimetris - ArchosaurDeimetris - Archosaur Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Any word on the tradability of the crafted raps/cannies?

    If they are bound, then the majority of non-american players (that can't attend the wars due to their timezone) get shafted big time.

    According to the database its the same as a normal rap cannie, but only shows manufacturing on the China database but is the same item if you switch to US while on the page.

    Rap CN US

    Cannie CN US

    Weather it differs for our version and they are bound I don't know, but they look just the same as what comes out of the nirvana instance to me.
  • Nikitok - Raging TideNikitok - Raging Tide Posts: 67 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Dear friends, when are you going to stop being so naive? As long as you keep buying MoG and chips they will give you 4th and 5th recast for free. Oh wait, thats going to be too obvious... May be they'll want you to maditate in reflection to get mats for 4th and 5th recast
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  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    If canny and rap were so easy to get, and Nirvana stopped being worth running, that would mean it's extemely easy to get the gear. PWE wouldn't take so much money out of their own pockets...

    Missed this earlier. But actually, they wouldnt lose money, they`d force everybody who wants to be competitive to go R9 as free 2nd cast and farmable 3rd cast are just lightyears away in power compared to N3.
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  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    As a mercenary answering the call for Nation Wars, players are rewarded a currency called Supply Tokens. With these, players will be able to exchange for materials to craft Rank 8 gear upgrades, Warsoul weapons, exclusive Tomes, and Uncanny/Rapture Crystals (for Rank 9 Ascended gear).

    See that part in red ?

    How much more of an explanation do you need to understand that the Cannys and Raps gained from Nation War is to be tied to the manufacturing of R9 recast gear only ???

    So don't expect to be farming all these Raps and Cannys for dirt cheap upgrades to Nirvana G16. This of course means that the Nirvana dungeon isn't going anywhere either.

    That makes even less sense because then they might as well have added Summerwind Tokens for 540 Supply Tokens each instead of individual raps/cannies. And nowhere did they state that it's ONLY for Rank 9 Ascended gear.

    I think we're seeing another power shift here, just like what happened to R8 (which used to be epic omg wtfx). Nirvana armor becomes the new TT99, S3 Nirvana becomes the new R8 and so on and so forth.


    I'd also like to point out that the Chinese version has no recipe for 1 Token = 1 Rapture/5 canny. Only the more expensive one we see in the encyclopedia.

    This cheap exchange of just 1 token is something unique for PWI, so it seems.
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  • Father_gold - SanctuaryFather_gold - Sanctuary Posts: 449 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    they already said they were receiving [customized] content specific to our iteration of the game.

    this is an "international" game run from a U.S. timezone, i think the issue over available timeslots has been argued and discussed to death. any timezone you put it in is going to be inconvenient to somebody. this game caters largely to Americans. the new TW times are pretty crappy for some in the US but work for others around the world. just.... stop it with the QQ over times already, its a dead subject.

    i think the new way to get cannies and raps as other have already stated, just create a new status quot. it does look like they are hurting our ability to farm-for-free r9 gears, but at the same time giving us the ability to reach nirvana stage 3 (full suits) pretty easily. i'm not sure i can be so mad that they are making the farming of those mats more accessible in a sense to people normally not able to farm vana (either) efficiently.

    its gonna be the same item, the only diff i can logically see is that the cannies and raps are bound but stashable, which will kind of protect the vana market. i dont think ppl will be getting 100's of coins per week, more like up to 10 would seem reasonable. i only hope that awards will be given regardless of win/lose.

    i dunno, i think ppl are just shocked at the changes because they are significant ones. many people who have created a comfort zone where they can exploit the current system to their benefit, just dont like any change that effects this comfort. the changes favor free-players a bit more (while still not giving away cash gear) than cash shoppers. it also adds some variety to farming, and more exp all around pushing ppl to endgame quicker might de-emphasize FCC.

    so basically they widened the gap between free player and cash shoppa by shooting the farming grinders in the foot while feeding them candy (you can farm non r9 easier now but getting to the 1.5bil will be harder unless you power merch)
  • Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Nowitsawn - Heavens Tear Posts: 4,864 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    its gonna be the same item, the only diff i can logically see is that the cannies and raps are bound but stashable

    Doesn't seem so. If you look at Oricalcum/Damascene/Hapatizon at the new forge, it explicitly states in the tooltip that they are bound and not stashable. No other item in the forge (except the rank gear) has this.
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  • Haila - SanctuaryHaila - Sanctuary Posts: 467 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    There should be a hidden fee on this craft.

    Are the new supply tokens tradable btw at chinese servers b:puzzled
  • HideYoHubby - ArchosaurHideYoHubby - Archosaur Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    so basically they widened the gap between free player and cash shoppa by shooting the farming grinders in the foot while feeding them candy (you can farm non r9 easier now but getting to the 1.5bil will be harder unless you power merch)

    Well problem is that gear just became mostly uncompetitive - R93rd cast just blows it away and if you got R9, you kinda got free 3rd cast too trough WS. But well, I`m kinda glad tbh, it takes me 6 months to hit 105 on my sin, I`ll have fun for few months after I can just pop full R93rd cast on archer and start TWing on him. The 1b I counted on summerwind sale just became 50mish, lol. If I relied on only farming, I`d be pissed, though I admit I dislike this new situation as it does make investing more on sin less appealing as nirvana is no longer really for moneymaking, guess WS and N3 gear selling replaces that.
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