Damascene Ores

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide

Traz - Dreamweaver wrote: »

That was articulated much better then I did, but that's my viewpoint on it. Hopefully an admin can at least acknowledge this thread at some point. It is a very big concern to some pretty high up cashers PWI. *wink wink nudge nudge*

Thanks. I took a vacation from the game (it's still on-going lol) and from the forums. I feel I'm able to communicate my points in a more efficient fashion now.

On topic, It would be really great to have some official feedback on this. It's a legit complaint, and many have also attempted to offer possible solutions. As it is right now I feel like the team at PWE isn't supporting PWI at all anymore.

Valirah - Sanctuary

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Now clearly with the difference in gears, your 100% is going to accomplish more than their 100%. Am I correct in understanding you feel that because your full effort produces more of an effect, you are entitled to a larger portion of the spoils because you are "carrying" them?

Seriously, can you read? I've said over and over, in caps even, all that I want is a a FAIR AND EQUAL SHARE.

If I put in just as much time as anybody else I should be entitled to the SAME COMPENSATION. It shouldn't matter what I want to do with Damascenes, use them or sell them, if I contributed enough to earn one, I should be able to get one. These factions that only distribute these rare mats to those who recast are asking the rest of the faction to subsidize those recasts. Not a big surprise if they have a hard time attracting the interest of people with finished gear to attend Trials.

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Seriously, can you read? I've said over and over, in caps even, all that I want is a a FAIR AND EQUAL SHARE.

If I put in just as much time as anybody else I should be entitled to the SAME COMPENSATION. It shouldn't matter what I want to do with Damascenes, use them or sell them, if I contributed enough to earn one, I should be able to get one. These factions that only distribute these rare mats to those who recast are asking the rest of the faction to subsidize those recasts. Not a big surprise if they have a hard time attracting the interest of people with finished gear to attend Trials.

I have no problems reading, I just wanted to make sure I was clear on your viewpoint. Now that I am, yes, you are indeed greedy. The fact that you feel the need to be compensated for helping a team member out oozes with greed.

It's ok if you don't agree, because if your thought process works in the manner you described above, that same thought process will prevent you from accepting this as true.

If people need compensation for helping out their own team members to the point the wouldn't even do it otherwise, that's either a reflection of the maturity level of those people, or a serious infection of greediness.

Anyways, I really have no desire to further derail the topic than I already have by continuing this conversation. So continue on if you wish. I'll read what you have to say, but I'd prefer to keep any of my future posts on topic.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Um...

I don't think any fixed system, whether it's an artificial point distribution or a gear/level/class-related system, is good for something like this. Something like that just cannot account for everything and someone always gets the short end of the stick.

For example: Most of the R9s won't need the rare mats for recasting, but rather for selling. The ones that do, should be on a lower priority than people who don't have R9 and are going for the same recasts, as they "need" them more and would benefit more from them. Similarly, certain classes have different priorities for recast r8: BMs are most likely going for a -0.05 interval chest, whereas casters probably don't care for the mods too much and prioritize a weapon. Similarly, I can picture Assassins going for recast R8 to get to the 3.33+ base APS with mostly G15 armor, for sharding purposes.

A system that is based purely on attendance favors people with lower end gear, as their "effort" produces less results. Of course, this kind of favoritism would be good for the faction overall, as improving on the lower end folk is much easier than improving on the people who already have near-perfect gear, thus making the faction stronger as a whole.

I'm not saying that a person who has R9 shouldn't get any materials or that a person whose build would require recast R8 as a central piece should get top priority. What I think, is that there should be different priorities. You shouldn't even begin to compare the needs of an R9 to the needs of a non-R9. Similarly, comparing the needs of a caster to a non-caster is bound to end bad.

Effectively, making an efficient system for distributing R8 recast mats just won't happen. One reason is that it would require a lot of the R9 population to actually give priority to others than themselves, and everyone knows that doesn't work too well in this community. Another reason would be that an efficient system would take into account class, current gear, which recast pieces you're going for and previous attendances at the very least. And of course, there would have to be some kind of agreement to the priorities. And making and maintaining such a list on a weekly basis isn't something most people would be willing to put forth effort for.

Of course, if a faction had an executor who specifically maintained such a list as their primary duty, it could work.

Valirah - Sanctuary

Strange world where wanting an equal share is considered greedy. Kinda typical of moochers, curse the guy who doesn't offer a handout.

Thread is kinda still on topic as I'm pointing out a flaw in the way many factions run Trials. By giving fair compensation for attending Trials to everyone regardless of their needs, you'll get more people to do them. More people = quicker runs = more runs = more mats = everyone benefits.

To date my faction has gathered 255 Damascenes, not counting "scene only"s. We have no one ******** and moaning about not enough while still being able to sell some to the public. We run enough Trials that those who are recasting can earn rerolls just from the "scene only"s that we distribute for free, on the spot. These can be supplemented by cashing out credits for the tradable ones just like anyone else. The system works, everyone is happy.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Strange world where wanting an equal share is considered greedy. Kinda typical of moochers, curse the guy who doesn't offer a handout.

No such thing as equality in this case. The quantity of mats you get can be considered roughly a constant. Thus, giving some to others means not giving to someone else. So there is no equality at all. If someone who wants the coin gets the mat, that's taking away from someone who'd use the mat to make their gear themselves.

Even in the event that there is enough mats to give to everyone, which obviously isn't the case, the recasters have a much higher "thirst" for the mats, thus the equality is again broken: the coin that a seller would gain from the mat has less value to themselves than the same mat would have for someone who'd use it on their own gear.

Thread is kinda still on topic as I'm pointing out a flaw in the way many factions run Trials. By giving fair compensation for attending Trials to everyone regardless of their needs, you'll get more people to do them. More people = quicker runs = more runs = more mats = everyone benefits.

But isn't the quantity of Trials you can do per week limited? Thus, there's a point after which the speed factor is meaningless if you're already able to reach the limit. And more people results in more mouths to feed, results in lesser shares for each individual, which means each individuals that was already there does not benefit whereas the new entries benefit, as their gains go up from zero, whereas the others' goes from the old point to a lower point to accommodate the new people.

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Strange world where wanting an equal share is considered greedy. Kinda typical of moochers, curse the guy who doesn't offer a handout.

Thread is kinda still on topic as I'm pointing out a flaw in the way many factions run Trials. By giving fair compensation for attending Trials to everyone regardless of their needs, you'll get more people to do them. More people = quicker runs = more runs = more mats = everyone benefits.

To date my faction has gathered 255 Damascenes, not counting "scene only"s. We have no one ******** and moaning about not enough while still being able to sell some to the public. We run enough Trials that those who are recasting can earn rerolls just from the "scene only"s that we distribute for free, on the spot. These can be supplemented by cashing out credits for the tradable ones just like anyone else. The system works, everyone is happy.

Your system might work for you, and that's great. I hope it continues to work well for you. As for the off-topic parts, I remain firm in my previous post to not continue down that path. I said what I had to say and my opinion has not wavered.

Trials have been around for how long now? Nearly 5 months I believe. So in 5 months you have managed to collect 255 Ores that can be traded. That's enough for 85 re-rolls. In 5 months. That's kind of the point. In factions at full capacity, that's not even enough for half of the members to get a single re-roll in nearly half a year of gameplay.

If such a low number suits the needs of your faction, great! I am happy for you. But you have to take a moment to realize that your case is the minority, not the majority. The truth is, that number is not high enough to satisfy the needs of a lot of the factions out there.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide wrote: »

Your system might work for you, and that's great. I hope it continues to work well for you. As for the off-topic parts, I remain firm in my previous post to not continue down that path. I said what I had to say and my opinion has not wavered.

Trials have been around for how long now? Nearly 5 months I believe. So in 5 months you have managed to collect 255 Ores that can be traded. That's enough for 85 re-rolls. In 5 months. That's kind of the point. In factions at full capacity, that's not even enough for half of the members to get a single re-roll in nearly half a year of gameplay.

If such a low number suits the needs of your faction, great! I am happy for you. But you have to take a moment to realize that your case is the minority, not the majority. The truth is, that number is not high enough to satisfy the needs of a lot of the factions out there.

85 tradable re-rolls is enough for 3 -int plates (plus some extra). It takes 5 months at max capacity of a top rank faction to satisfy 3 people in the faction (despite hundreds of trials and resources used). This completely negates any market for those of us that cannot get into a top 3 faction (or chose not to). THIS is point skai is trying to portray.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Um... Valirah clearly said that the 255 Damascenes counted only for the tradeable ones.

And if we assume the same is true for the top 3 factions, that'll be 765 tradeable Damascenes into the market.

Personally I find it a bit giggly that people are actually complaining about the farmable gear taking a long time. It is farmable for a reason, and I'm pretty sure merchanting/farming R9 would still take longer.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Um... Valirah clearly said that the 255 Damascenes counted only for the tradeable ones.

And if we assume the same is true for the top 3 factions, that'll be 765 tradeable Damascenes into the market.

Personally I find it a bit giggly that people are actually complaining about the farmable gear taking a long time. It is farmable for a reason, and I'm pretty sure merchanting/farming R9 would still take longer.

I'm only concerned about the market (aka tradable dramascene). And no that's not 765 for the market because that's 9 people out of 300 that it satisfies and maybe 1-2 MIGHT find it's way to being sold. That's the message some of us are trying to get through to everyone.

I do not see 100s of trials, countless apoth, charms, all sorts of resorces, and nearly 5 months of work for 3 factions at max capacity just to finish 1 piece of gear for 9 people. Hell span that to 20 due to the non-trade + trade damascene. 5 months for the top 3 factions going at the max of 100 people every week every trial to get 20/300 done seems a bit much in my view.

Yudai - Sanctuary

I haven't read the full argument so i can't say i have a full understanding of the situation, but the way my faction does it goes like this:

We gather people up for trials and then proceed to actually do them.

Then we get to the boss. At this point ill hit "t" and take all names. Those with duplicate chars on trials are only counted for one of their characters.

We also have an eye out for those who are just sitting afk.

If anyone has to leave in the middle of a trial, but has contributed to some good bit of it, then the name is still written down. That person informs the person taking names (usually myself).

The squad that gets the drops from the boss then gives it to one of our officers, who will then sell all drops. However, if a faction member wishes to buy said drops, they can for a discount off the normal pricing.

Then all the money is sent to an officer who will then proceed to mail each member an equal share so long as they participate.

Any "scene-only" items from the chest are distributed to members who are going for r8r. Shields and adamant stones are also banked and sold.

I personally think this is a fair way of splitting the trial drops, and it allows access to the drops themselves to any faction member.

Bobobejumbo - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Um... Valirah clearly said that the 255 Damascenes counted only for the tradeable ones.

And if we assume the same is true for the top 3 factions, that'll be 765 tradeable Damascenes into the market.

Personally I find it a bit giggly that people are actually complaining about the farmable gear taking a long time. It is farmable for a reason, and I'm pretty sure merchanting/farming R9 would still take longer.

I'm all for steering away from a credit card being able to obtain all your gear in a single swipe. I've said before though, and I strongly feel this way:

You should not be able to obtain something meaningful in too short a time frame. Likewise, it should not take too long to obtain something practical.

However, going from one end of the spectrum to the other is not the answer either. Balance is important in all things in life. This is no exception.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Trav pretty much nailed it.

Farming a r8r piece is easy and doable. Hell I even did it, and I'm a lazy farmer. But farming reshape pieces like Damascenes? That takes ages, literally.

My faction is the top faction in Raging Tides, and even with the amount of trials we do and the Damascenes we've saved, as well as the amount of players in our faction that are going for r8r, it seems like not everyone gets "enough". We have priorities of course, such as people going for weapons would have priority over those going armor, because getting decent stats on a weapon is not only a bit easier and is a single piece of gear, but also a necessity since a good weapon is more important than the armors, which most of our faction has good enough of. Anyone going for r8r of course has r8 armors, so that's enough to suffice as armor, but if they're going for a weapon, then that's more important, in a sense.

As for people going for armors like myself, we have lower priority because armors have more pieces, as well as having a harder chance at good stats. Not only that, but mainly for myself, I have good enough armors at the moment to suffice without wearing r8r armor. With it being a side project for myself, the people going for armors that they need to use because they have no alternative ones get priority over myself.

But lately we haven't been doing trials much because the attendance isn't enough to finish one due to people taking breaks, vacationing, or real life.

And another thing is Olbaze, TT gear and Nirvana are all farmable and easy enough to do, but the reforging part for good stats is more reasonably done than r8r is. Farming 7 raptures to reroll the stats on a weapon, even without any APS DDs in a squad, is more reasonably done (on a time scale) than 3 Damascenes for a r8r piece reshaped. And the other part that bugs me is that both weapons and armor take Damascenes, unlike the different mats required to recast Nirvana weapons and armor.


All I'm trying to say is, farming 255 Damascenes in 5 months in a top faction on a server that has to be distributed among at least 100 people isn't reasonable in the least for reshaping on time. Not including scene bound ore and distributing evenly, that equates to 2.55 Damascene ores per member in almost half a year. That's not even one reshape attempt for a single piece of armor. How does a player aiming for r8r in a top faction (which is, as Traz said, a minority) go about getting even decent stats with the low percentage chances on any recast gear?

Even with Nirvana's low reforging rates, you can at least do 5 reforges a week if you did Nirvana daily. Not only that, but with x2 affecting Nirvana's drop rate whereas it doesn't in Trial drops, it's even easier to farm up a reforge attempt.

Using Val's numbers, 2.55 Damascene ores in 5 months equates to 0.51 ores a month, or 6.12 ores a year. To just reshape a r8r piece TWICE, it would take a whole 12 months of daily trials IN A TOP FACTION. Just to reshape twice.

I don't know about you, but I don't find those numbers reasonable. And this is coming from someone who sees the reshape rates to get -int on boots reasonable, as well as getting an SoT from a pack before.

Monkeytoes - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Personally I find it a bit giggly that people are actually complaining about the farmable gear taking a long time. It is farmable for a reason, and I'm pretty sure merchanting/farming R9 would still take longer.

+1 to everything else you said, but i have to disagree with this.

No one is asking for it to be "easy", they are simply asking for reasonable drop rates.
All you have to do to obtain R9, which should be the gear that is incredibly difficult to obtain is swipe a credit card, in fact that is the ONLY way to obtain said gear (yes, you could farm coin blah blah....but in the end, SOMEONE has to swipe that credit card).
Now we have end game gear that HAS to be farmed and it can be nearly impossible to obtain the necessary mats. Even when TT99 was still hard to obtain, you could still chip an Illusion Stone, for example, if you had the chips for it and couldn't find any for sale or farm one yourself. Nirvana gear doesn't require an entire faction to complete an instance in order to put uncannies and raptures into the market.

What I find a bit giggly about the whole thing is those that do trials fully decked out in their cash shopped gear demanding their "fair and equal share" and then setting up shops next to the base manager to sell said "fair and equal share" at grossly inflated prices. Adamantine Whetstones for 700k is just one example. These same people are the ones crying that merchanting is dead while refusing to adjust their prices for the times (ie. trying to sell a lunar cape for 60m when one can easily be farmed with TheDan for 32m, or a lunar orn for 50 when a diligent person can obtain a sky cover for 60). Greediness and selfishness have made the market/economy (on Sanctuary, at least) very inefficient.

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Monkeytoes - Sanctuary wrote: »

+1 to everything else you said, but i have to disagree with this.

No one is asking for it to be "easy", they are simply asking for reasonable drop rates.
All you have to do to obtain R9, which should be the gear that is incredibly difficult to obtain is swipe a credit card, in fact that is the ONLY way to obtain said gear (yes, you could farm coin blah blah....but in the end, SOMEONE has to swipe that credit card).
Now we have end game gear that HAS to be farmed and it can be nearly impossible to obtain the necessary mats. Even when TT99 was still hard to obtain, you could still chip an Illusion Stone, for example, if you had the chips for it and couldn't find any for sale or farm one yourself. Nirvana gear doesn't require an entire faction to complete an instance in order to put uncannies and raptures into the market.

Well... R8 recast is equal or superior to Nirvana gear, so it has a minimum floor of effort at Nirvana.

On the other hand, R8 recast interest comes mostly from the following sources:
a) People looking for an alternative to G15 Nirvana / R9 for endgame
b) R9 people looking to get things like 5 aps Sage fist BMs or 5 aps R9 Demon sins
c) Casters looking for Purify

Out of these, a) have no place to complain as they made a choice. b) also has no place to complain as they've already gone beyond anything the game could require. And personally, I still haven't seen a single caster complaining about recast R8. I wonder why?

So yeah, I'm giggly.

What I find a bit giggly about the whole thing is those that do trials fully decked out in their cash shopped gear demanding their "fair and equal share" and then setting up shops next to the base manager to sell said "fair and equal share" at grossly inflated prices. Adamantine Whetstones for 700k is just one example. These same people are the ones crying that merchanting is dead while refusing to adjust their prices for the times (ie. trying to sell a lunar cape for 60m when one can easily be farmed with TheDan for 32m, or a lunar orn for 50 when a diligent person can obtain a sky cover for 60). Greediness and selfishness have made the market/economy (on Sanctuary, at least) very inefficient.

It's a bit funky to see R9s complaining about their "shares" anyway. If you're already walking around in +12 R9 sharded with 24 JoSD's and all of your other gear is maxed out as well, what the hell do you spend your coins on?

Monkeytoes - Sanctuary

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's a bit funky to see R9s complaining about their "shares" anyway. If you're already walking around in +12 R9 sharded with 24 JoSD's and all of your other gear is maxed out as well, what the hell do you spend your coins on?

They don't...they just need to make sure no one else gets those coins b:bye

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Monkeytoes - Sanctuary wrote: »

They don't...they just need to make sure no one else gets those coins b:bye

More or less this.

I'm not complaining for just myself. I'm complaining as a whole to make reshape/hone mats more farmable in a reasonable sense.

If you read my post, as I said, using Val's numbers, it will take a FULL year of DAILY, three hundred and sixty five days, of daily trials with a TOP faction on a server, JUST to reshape TWICE.

If you don't believe that, then I will let you know it took me about ~3-4 months of wcing every now and then just to buy ONE (1) Damascene outside of my faction.

Change reshape r8 recast to Nirvana, and Damascenes with Raptures, and then think of that analogy. Imagine a world where when you are farming your TT99, and you are forced to wait 15 weeks before you get a single special mat out of 3 to make it. That's how bad Damascene farming is.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

Monkeytoes - Sanctuary wrote: »

They don't...they just need to make sure no one else gets those coins b:bye

I haven't actually been to Trials, because my faction does them at a time when I need to either be out doing stuff IRL or otherwise unable to focus my attention on a video game. With that being said, I have to ask this: Are the trials actually fun?

From the way Valirah describes it, they come across as being little more than a giant waste of money for people who don't need it (in the form of repair bills/charm ticks/apoth consumption). If they aren't actually fun to do, then it's natural that it's going to be hard to entice people who don't even need it to throw away their time and money at something they don't enjoy on a regular basis.

I can understand that, at the very least, r9 people may not want to have to spend money helping the r8r people after they've already spent a ton gearing themselves out. That part doesn't seem terribly unreasonable to me. What does seem unreasonable to me is wanting to take a rare mat to make a profit over a faction mate who actually needs the mat to try to make his/her gear better.

In other words, it's not greedy for the r9 people to actually want to break even on the run. It's greedy for the r8r people to expect the r9s to go into the red from the runs, and it's greedy for the r9 people to expect to make bank off mats when the mats are so rare and their faction mates need them for upgrades.

I think that all came out right. b:shutup

Monkeytoes - Sanctuary

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

I haven't actually been to Trials, because my faction does them at a time when I need to either be out doing stuff IRL or otherwise unable to focus my attention on a video game. With that being said, I have to ask this: Are the trials actually fun?

From the way Valirah describes it, they come across as being little more than a giant waste of money for people who don't need it (in the form of repair bills/charm ticks/apoth consumption). If they aren't actually fun to do, then it's natural that it's going to be hard to entice people who don't even need it to throw away their time and money at something they don't enjoy on a regular basis.

I can understand that, at the very least, r9 people may not want to have to spend money helping the r8r people after they've already spent a ton gearing themselves out. That part doesn't seem terribly unreasonable to me. What does seem unreasonable to me is wanting to take a rare mat to make a profit over a faction mate who actually needs the mat to try to make his/her gear better.

In other words, it's not greedy for the r9 people to actually want to break even on the run. It's greedy for the r8r people to expect the r9s to go into the red from the runs, and it's greedy for the r9 people to expect to make bank off mats when the mats are so rare and their faction mates need them for upgrades.

I think that all came out right. b:shutup

It came out right and I totally agree....no one should get nothing for going, but is it really so much to ask that people take a little less in order to help other faction members? Wouldn't getting everyone geared benefit the faction as a whole more than everyone demanding top dollar for their participation?

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's a bit funky to see R9s complaining about their "shares" anyway. If you're already walking around in +12 R9 sharded with 24 JoSD's and all of your other gear is maxed out as well, what the hell do you spend your coins on?

R9 recast b:bye

Olbaze - Sanctuary

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

R9 recast b:bye

Oh but isn't everyone too busy complaining about how overpriced R9 recast is for the gains and how it is totally and utterly useless because of the differing set bonuses?

Or how about, like that one guy, roll a caster and solo farm r9 recast during 2x drops?

ZoracGallant - Raging Tide

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh but isn't everyone too busy complaining about how overpriced R9 recast is for the gains and how it is totally and utterly useless because of the differing set bonuses?

Or how about, like that one guy, roll a caster and solo farm r9 recast during 2x drops?

You forgot how he solo farmed r9 recast through the casters glitch b:chuckle

Asterelle - Sanctuary_1381265973

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

Oh but isn't everyone too busy complaining about how overpriced R9 recast is for the gains and how it is totally and utterly useless because of the differing set bonuses?

Or how about, like that one guy, roll a caster and solo farm r9 recast during 2x drops?

Well there is a 21 page thread complaining about the difficulty of R8 recast.
I don't really remember anything that long complaining about r9 recast.

Actually though R9 recast has gotten a bit cheaper with the current nirv market.
Full R9 recast is worth about 7.3b coins on Sanctuary atm. I think I have around 4.1 or 4.2b coins worth of gold/coins/**** spread across my various catshops so 7.3b is beginning to look doable.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Asterelle - Sanctuary wrote: »

Well there is a 21 page thread complaining about the difficulty of R8 recast.
I don't really remember anything that long complaining about r9 recast.

Actually though R9 recast has gotten a bit cheaper with the current nirv market.
Full R9 recast is worth about 7.3b coins on Sanctuary atm. I think I have around 4.1 or 4.2b coins worth of gold/coins/**** spread across my various catshops so 7.3b is beginning to look doable.

And if you made that thread Asterelle, I'd be the first to back you up on it. The difference being there is only the 1% that is going for r9 recast, and there are a lot more people going for r8 reforged.

Valirah - Sanctuary

_Skai_ - Raging Tide wrote: »

All I'm trying to say is, farming 255 Damascenes in 5 months in a top faction on a server that has to be distributed among at least 100 people isn't reasonable in the least for reshaping on time.

Where are you pulling your "at least 100 people" figure from? Sounds like BS to me. If you have 100+ people looking to make recast R8 in your faction you should have no trouble clearing set 2 or even 3 every week.

People in my fac seem to manage rerolling without much trouble. Sure it would be great if supply doubled or tripled, but if you want it bad enough, it's there for the taking. I know one guy blew 10 rerolls on getting his -int chest, I've done a reroll on an alt (no freebies) and sold off enough for 2 more. The 255 + I'd estimate a least another 150 "scene only"s have so far been adequate to our demand as our bank has yet to run dry.

Olbaze - Sanctuary wrote: »

It's a bit funky to see R9s complaining about their "shares" anyway. If you're already walking around in +12 R9 sharded with 24 JoSD's and all of your other gear is maxed out as well, what the hell do you spend your coins on?

Yeah, I'm R9 and worked for every bit of it in game. Weapon is +12, rest +10. Most shards complete, had to go budget and settle for Vit Stones. Still have Cape and Helm to reshard, aiming at JoSDs.

So lets see, I still have 8 JoSD , 7 +11 orbs, 7 +12 orbs and a Cloud Cover ring (plus refines) to still fund. Aside from that I have cleric and barb alts that I'm gearing up with RR8. Still have plenty on my table to worry about, so yeah, I'd like my "share" thank you very much.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

I haven't actually been to Trials, because my faction does them at a time when I need to either be out doing stuff IRL or otherwise unable to focus my attention on a video game. With that being said, I have to ask this: Are the trials actually fun?

From the way Valirah describes it, they come across as being little more than a giant waste of money for people who don't need it (in the form of repair bills/charm ticks/apoth consumption). If they aren't actually fun to do, then it's natural that it's going to be hard to entice people who don't even need it to throw away their time and money at something they don't enjoy on a regular basis.

Trials can be fun, they can also be tedious, some are better than others. If you have decent people and can run them efficiently, they can earn you good money, even after factoring costs. I can earn from 2 to 3 mil of value per hour typically.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

I can understand that, at the very least, r9 people may not want to have to spend money helping the r8r people after they've already spent a ton gearing themselves out. That part doesn't seem terribly unreasonable to me. What does seem unreasonable to me is wanting to take a rare mat to make a profit over a faction mate who actually needs the mat to try to make his/her gear better.

In other words, it's not greedy for the r9 people to actually want to break even on the run. It's greedy for the r8r people to expect the r9s to go into the red from the runs, and it's greedy for the r9 people to expect to make bank off mats when the mats are so rare and their faction mates need them for upgrades.

Our system is setup so that who ever wants a mat can get it. No one asks why you want it. No one is taking mats from those that "need" them. If they want to get them, they just have to earn the credits to do so, just like anyone else.

Zarni - Dreamweaver

I wouldn't mind seeing the Damascene drop rate increased slightly, or perhaps have them added to the Arcanum treasure packs at like .5% chance. Looking at this games track record with making changes like that, I'd guess it's a year or more off, if it will ever happen. It's more likely they'll add that stupid pack that's already in the code, which they admit will **** the economy worse than it already is.

It should be kept relatively rare. The stat that most people doing the complaining here want is -interval, the mechanic which has already destroyed team play in this game (outside a few instances and TW). Seriously, do you need to spam nirvana and TT even faster than possible with all the -interval gear already in game? PvE is too easy as it is (except the 2nd and 3rd rounds of 9 trials, but since no one wants a challenge, those aren't even done).

The trials are the only thing in the game besides TW that gives some incentive to work together with your faction. With the 6 month TW reset rule making TW less competitive for top tier factions, there's not much left to do for many end-gamers.

For me, an MMO is best played with a group, usually the bigger the more fun. If I wanted a solo game with god mode abilities, I'd just buy a good RPG and the appropriate cheat guide.

_Skai_ - Raging Tide

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Where are you pulling your "at least 100 people" figure from? Sounds like BS to me. If you have 100+ people looking to make recast R8 in your faction you should have no trouble clearing set 2 or even 3 every week.

I'm pulling the "at least 100 people" from the fact of around that many people participate in trials in a top faction over the week (not everyone can attend trials daily). It's a good estimate of a number considering most top factions have 150+ for TW purposes. If I just blatantly put it as 100 people splitting 255 Damascenes equally, it would take a long while to reshape.

It's just testing my patience, which I usually have a lot of. Most people would have either given up or have been raging since a week from trying to get Damascenes. But I think it's a perfectly good reason to "complain" about the rarity of Damascene ores after only obtaining 1 in 3-4 months of constant wcing.

I'm not complaining at all about r8 recasting in itself. I'm just complaining about the reshaping part. R8 recast mats are easy to get in a timely manner, but reshaping mats, not even close.

R9 recast doesn't even have to deal with that (reshaping). Let alone no need to think about chienkuns or re-refining again.


But in the end the best option would be to either increase the drop quantity from the bosses, or add them to the Arcanum Treasure list at a low %, so at least they would be in the public market, as have all of the other r8 recast materials. Hell even make them available like engraving rings such that it's a huge coin sink for the economy.

Tsukyini - Raging Tide

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Our system is setup so that who ever wants a mat can get it. No one asks why you want it. No one is taking mats from those that "need" them. If they want to get them, they just have to earn the credits to do so, just like anyone else.

Your faction's system is indeed very fair: You can only get out what you put in. It is absolutely a fair and unbiased method of distributing loot.

But, as you can see from other posts, due to the rarity of the ores, many factions are opting for a distribution system that favors the needs of the faction over the needs of the individual. It makes sense, actually. More people in that faction getting gear upgrades = that faction having a better chance against opposing factions in TW.

Valirah - Sanctuary

Tsukyini - Raging Tide wrote: »

But, as you can see from other posts, due to the rarity of the ores, many factions are opting for a distribution system that favors the needs of the faction over the needs of the individual. It makes sense, actually. More people in that faction getting gear upgrades = that faction having a better chance against opposing factions in TW.

Trouble is that this type of policy disincenivizes those who are best suited for running Trials, the well geared. Recasting R8 isn't the only avenue for gear upgrades, those who don't chose that path have equally valid goals that require funding. Everyone who participates should feel that their goals have equal merit. Whether the loot goes directly towards recasts or is converted to coin to buy refines and shards, gear is getting improved, the faction benefits.


Also, just because someone gets a mat to sell, it doesn't mean it leaves the faction. One can use their credits to help faction mates gather the mats they need.

Traz - Dreamweaver

Valirah - Sanctuary wrote: »

Trouble is that this type of policy disincenivizes those who are best suited for running Trials, the well geared. Recasting R8 isn't the only avenue for gear upgrades, those who don't chose that path have equally valid goals that require funding. Everyone who participates should feel that their goals have equal merit. Whether the loot goes directly towards recasts or is converted to coin to buy refines and shards, gear is getting improved, the faction benefits.


Also, just because someone gets a mat to sell, it doesn't mean it leaves the faction. One can use their credits to help faction mates gather the mats they need.

Some r9s actually care to help other less fortunate members get upgrades so they can be a stronger faction, even if it means taking a little less or none at all. b:mischievous